Artistic and complex songs? Axl evolved?

[Mikkamakka]

I don't understand why some board members praise the new songs as 'very artistic' and 'complex'. To tell the truth they're quite simple songs, mostly based on 1 or 2 ideas (except Better which is the closest to the term 'complex'). So why are you kepp saying that these songs are complex and artistic? Just because Axl said this in interviews? GN'R had complex songs like NR, Coma, Locomotive, Estranged, hell even PC or Civil War is much more complex than this new Axl material.

BTW these old songs are not complex if a musician talks about them. Dream Theater is (used to be?) complex, some Led Zeppelin (or Buckethead) material was complex etc., but GN'R isn't complex and never was.


The other thing that disturbs me is the 'Axl's music evolved'. If it means that he changed it to fit the new trends, then I tend to agree. But if you think he invented something new, then it's high time to buy some CDs. Just because he is into industrial music and uses effects, loops etc it ain't make it 'experimental'. Maybe learning how the computer works was experimetnal for Axl, but not for the music.? TWAT is NIN meets GN'R, same for IRS which has some Led Zep vibe, too. CITR is a bad mixture of Dy'er Mak'er (sp?), Yesterdays, Since I don't have You, Just Another Sunday, Maroon 5 and the softer side of Bon Jovi. This song is cheesy as a song can be (not the lyrics, the song itself.). The Blues could have been an Elton John song. CD is something from an unknown an uneducated punk/grunge band. Riyadh and Better are Tool meets Nu-metal songs. And Madagascar sounds like Axl wrote something using the movie soundtrack cliches.

Don't get me wrong, some of the new songs are good (Better, IRS, TWAT, Madagascar, some parts of The Blues), but this isn't anything new, not complex, not artistic, not experimental. It's not earth-shattering or ground-breaking. Take it as it is: a collection of Axl's old and new influences, which will make a good album (hopefully), but these songs won't change the music.?

[avesia]

agree 

[ARC]

these songs won't change the music.?

I think the phrase here is... "who gives a shit...".? 

[Origen]

Post of the month, ?Well said  


And now you will have some ass licking people jump on you for questioning Axl. Ah there we go it's happened already 

[WARose]

yeah cool................but where`s the point?  i don`t care if the music is complex/ earth shattering/ whatever......    but it`s exactely what i wanted to hear, so i`m really happy with it...

and i don?t think locomotive is a complex song either.....it`s just 6 minutes the same riff and then the weird outro....

[MadmanDan]

What the fuck do you people want?? What exactly do you expect, for Axl to re-invent music, maybe invent some instruments along the way??? ?The new songs follow the path of all the GNR songs since the beginning: they have obvious influences, but at the same time they have a very distinct sound.

[Crashdiet]

Alight.. granted. BUT

I think the reason we are all here is because axl with his voice, lyrics, melody, and general take on the world capture something none of us have ever heard before.

I don't think axl is ground shakin in terms of new musical ideals. BUT what he incorporates, digests, and creates as his own is compelely original. His voice, melody, and lyrics are like nothing i've ever heard.

When all is said and done there is a reason why i'm at the HTDGTH website and not at elton john's, pink floyd's, or led zepplin's forums is because what i find in axl is a part of myself. a tortured and poetic soul who has experienced life's emotions, survived and shared his take on them.

I'm here because axl.. as werid as he has... captured me as a young child when i heard' welcome to the jungle'... and i've been with him ever since.... and I can't wait to hear what's in store.

[DeN]

it's just demos.

take a break and come back when CD will come out.

[ARC]

What the fuck do you people want?? What exactly do you expect, for Axl to re-invent music, maybe invent some instruments along the way??? ?The new songs follow the path of all the GNR songs since the beginning: they have obvious influences, but at the same time they have a very distinct sound.

Yeah, I think some people are expecting Axl to invent two new musical notes too...

 

[Lucky]

it's just demos.

that's the dumbest excuse.
 we heard the concept, and the concept isn't anything much, especially if you know that they worked 10 years on it.

I always tought the album will be a UYI killer, but now, I'd be happy if the songs come close to pretty tied up.

[Olorin]

I agree and I'm glad you posted that as I believe it had to be said and is long overdue.
I have been driven mad by the amount of posters who have used the word "complex" when discussing these songs.
The context in which it has been used by the majority of posters is laughable.
I'll bet my snakeskin boots that we would never, ever have been subjected to the overuse of this word if Axl had not used it.
For the record, I don't believe he meant any particular song was complex - he was referring to the different variation of song styles, the only thing remotely complex that I have heard is that no 2 songs sound the same, there is quite different styles between them.
And there really aint nothing that is going to set the world on fire in terms of invention, it has all been done before and been done better.
I love the new material, but I also love a huge spectrum of music covering 60 years of progression and invention and classical music which dates back 100's of years, if you want to hear complex music delve into the arts and you will hear truly stunning acomplishments.

All these songs are is half decent modern rock music.

[ARC]

I don't want to hear 'complex' music.
I don't want to hear 'innovative' music.
I don't want to hear tunes that will 'change music'.

I want to hear Axl Rose sing on tunes that make my head rock ~ which is what I got. 

[DeN]

that's the dumbest excuse.

it's not an excuse. we don't even know the date of recording of these demos.

if you can judge an album BEFORE listening to it, congratulations, personally, i can't.

oh, i almost forgot : can you please give me the numbers for the next loto, i want to be rich.

thx in advance.

[The Dog]

I don't think they are going "to change music" BUT they might change the FACE of music today.  Music today has no soul, no emotion...no defining sound.
If you think AFD was 100% original you'd be totally wrong too - its got a Stones, Aerosmith influence that is undeniable, yet for the time it rocked the music world b/c nobody else sounded like that at the time.

Yeah, so far the songs we've heard have a classic rock, modern rock, industrial sound to them, yet I wouldn't define any of the demos as just ONE of those styles I just listed.

Yeah, hes not going to invent anything new, but when CD drops nothing else on the radio is going to sound like it.

But I think the overall message of your post was good - some fans on this board are way over reacting to these songs.  Anytime I hear how Better is the best GNR song ever, you just kind of have to laugh.  Its a decent tune, but lets not get carried away.

[Fortus]

I don't understand why some board members praise the new songs as 'very artistic' and 'complex'. To tell the truth they're quite simple songs, mostly based on 1 or 2 ideas (except Better which is the closest to the term 'complex'). So why are you kepp saying that these songs are complex and artistic? Just because Axl said this in interviews? GN'R had complex songs like NR, Coma, Locomotive, Estranged, hell even PC or Civil War is much more complex than this new Axl material.

BTW these old songs are not complex if a musician talks about them. Dream Theater is (used to be?) complex, some Led Zeppelin (or Buckethead) material was complex etc., but GN'R isn't complex and never was.


The other thing that disturbs me is the 'Axl's music evolved'. If it means that he changed it to fit the new trends, then I tend to agree. But if you think he invented something new, then it's high time to buy some CDs. Just because he is into industrial music and uses effects, loops etc it ain't make it 'experimental'. Maybe learning how the computer works was experimetnal for Axl, but not for the music.? TWAT is NIN meets GN'R, same for IRS which has some Led Zep vibe, too. CITR is a bad mixture of Dy'er Mak'er (sp?), Yesterdays, Since I don't have You, Just Another Sunday, Maroon 5 and the softer side of Bon Jovi. This song is cheesy as a song can be (not the lyrics, the song itself.). The Blues could have been an Elton John song. CD is something from an unknown an uneducated punk/grunge band. Riyadh and Better are Tool meets Nu-metal songs. And Madagascar sounds like Axl wrote something using the movie soundtrack cliches.

Don't get me wrong, some of the new songs are good (Better, IRS, TWAT, Madagascar, some parts of The Blues), but this isn't anything new, not complex, not artistic, not experimental. It's not earth-shattering or ground-breaking. Take it as it is: a collection of Axl's old and new influences, which will make a good album (hopefully), but these songs won't change the music.?

is in my ass...that's where slash is....fuckhead go home- Axl Rose Leeds 2002

[WARose]

well i showed "better" and "irs" to a lot of people, most of them don`t even like gnr, and they were blown away.

so stop with your: "the new songs are mediocre rock music" shit!!!

just because you expected afd 2 in matter of style and whatever and you`re disappointed now, is no reason to start the complaining again.....

there will be something for everyone....... 

seriously, what did you expect after listening to madagascar and the blues??

i`m happy with what i heard and it exceeded my expectations and that`s what matters to me...

[ppbebe]

Axl didn't say the songs are but the album is very complex. we're yet to hear either of them.
We just heard a few rough demos.
However there's the noticeable development of Axl's vocals, like it or not. His voice on IRS is fresh and amazing.

As I see it GN'Rs music has evolved from that of the last decade.
I don't think it just Axls influences that are displayed in the better and irs demos or the live songs (esp Riyadh), which are band works. As Axl himself told of it in 1999.
What about your axl obsession?

Better is pretty innovative. I don't think you can argue with that.

[Lucky]

that's the dumbest excuse.

it's not an excuse. we don't even know the date of recording of these demos.

if you can judge an album BEFORE listening to it, congratulations, personally, i can't.

oh, i almost forgot : can you please give me the numbers for the next loto, i want to be rich.

thx in advance.

this is not a game of fortune.
I have good reason to believe that it won't be all that great.
If Axl rewrote the demos 100 % since the recordings we got, OK, then I fucked up.
but I seriously doubt that's what he did, and I'm sure that what we have heared so far is at least 70% of what the songs would sound like.
November rain, or estranged at 50% sounded better than these songs sound now.

I think that you can tell a diamond even when it's uncut. it still has a certain glow!!!
and I don't see much glow in these songs, only small sparkles.

[WARose]

Axl didn't say the songs are but the album is very complex.

anyone who wants to deny that after we heard 10 new songs`?

[WARose]

that's the dumbest excuse.

it's not an excuse. we don't even know the date of recording of these demos.

if you can judge an album BEFORE listening to it, congratulations, personally, i can't.

oh, i almost forgot : can you please give me the numbers for the next loto, i want to be rich.

thx in advance.

this is not a game of fortune.
I have good reason to believe that it won't be all that great.
If Axl rewrote the demos 100 % since the recordings we got, OK, then I fucked up.
but I seriously doubt that's what he did, and I'm sure that what we have heared so far is at least 70% of what the songs would sound like.
November rain, or estranged at 50% sounded better than these songs sound now.

I think that you can tell a diamond even when it's uncut. it still has a certain glow!!!
and I don't see much glow in these songs, only small sparkles.

at least you mentioned that it?s your opinion, unlike many other posters....