The psychological makeup of the Axl Rose haters and how to fight them.

[grendood]

to be fair this is one of the most ridiculous threads I have ever read in my life. 

But yet you took the time to post.

which means what exactly? Its still a ridiculous thread bellend.

[jimmythegent]

mmm.. some fairly generic stereo-typing in your thread Nixon. Its not all as black and white as you make it out. People who believe Axl was an ass to the original members are not necessarily moronic, mullet wearing Ratt fans. Wake up and look at the facts, some fans of music have a genuine beef with the fact that the greatest band since Zeppelin was dismantled in such a flippant manner by Axl. Constant press over the years pertaining to Axl being the sole reason Guns were successful hasn't helped the cause any either.

But lets not go there....

I honestly predict it will be as divisive and heated as the 2004 American Presidential election.

This is hilarious  Surely youre taking the piss here?

I agree, Axl needs to let the music do the talking, and silence critics with quality performances.

Whining and lame excuses ends now!

[icpillusions]

Now there's a hardcore group of Axl Rose haters out there that know their shit and just don't happen to like the guy at all... no matter what. Fine. No need to even debate these people... but we can at least compete against them for control over the media's perception of Axl and GN'R... I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Seems to me that they've been running the show for too long...

Axl has millions of dollars, can do almost anything he wants, lead singer to one of the top 10 best musical groups in history, could get practically any woman he wants including the haters Gfs and wives, actually has a band and doesn't talk to a beat machine and calls it music.

It kind of shuts the mouths of any hater. ?

His only weak points are his temper, stubborness, and in a way doing whatever he wants...

[Mr.Intensity]

The music will speak for itself.

.....

[oldgunsfan]

I don't think anyone needs to be "shutting up" anyone else for having an opposing view of GN'R and Axl... that being said... Nixon is correct to state that we should do everything in our power to insure that our point of view is at least HEARD... no one needs to go around beating the hell out of Nirvana fans... but it wouldn't hurt to be sure that we: (a) buy several copies of CD (if possible- give em away as X-mas and B-Day gifts); (b) request GN'R from our local radio stations; (c) attend the concerts; (d) make intelligent write-ups and reviews of CD on Amazon, etc.; (e) write-up objective and informed reviews of GN'R concerts; (f) reach out to those friends and relatives of ours that we know at some time liked GN'R and (g) "stick up" for the band in a RESPECTFUL way when you hear it get dissed in casual conversation... and this to me is probably the most important thing, because I find it happens ALL THE TIME... I was at dinner the other night with my wife (27) and some slightly younger couples (23-24), and one of the girls was having a laugh about how I liked Guns N' Roses and Axl, etc. and I calmly (emphasize calmly) debated her back... by the end of the night she, as well as most of the other couples, were dying to get her hands on a copy of CD. So many of the "haters" have no depth or real commitment to their opinions (NOTHING compared to the depth of our understanding and respect for GN'R)... if you respectfully debate with them... they usually fold and admit that they at least like a few GN'R songs. The reality is, many of these people (even just 2-3 yr. age difference- but that's how quickly the landscape changed in 93-94) just went to high school in an era when GN'R was uncool and they've never known any different nor bothered to research their initial impressions.

Now there's a hardcore group of Axl Rose haters out there that know their shit and just don't happen to like the guy at all... no matter what. Fine. No need to even debate these people... but we can at least compete against them for control over the media's perception of Axl and GN'R... I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Seems to me that they've been running the show for too long...

It seems what your advocating for is almost as time and energy consuming as it was for this CD to be written, recorded, and hopefully distributed.  It also seems to be pretty expensive.  Buy Multiple copies of CD?  For what, to inflate sales.  You gonna throw $60-70 bucks my way for the extras?  Attend the shows, been there, done that in Philly 2002.  Debate them?  With what?  It's hard to present a reasonable argument when you haven't had a new product in 15 years, and when it does come out, with an entirely different cast that was responsible for the initil ffans interest in the band in the first place.

Like many people have said.  Axl doesn't owe the fans shit.  I say, neither do the fans owe Axl anything.  It's been an awfully long and frustrating road to get this far watching my favorite band self destruct and become reborn.  Yes.  I will buy CD, iif and when it comes out.  To act as Axl's pro-bono attorney to radio stations, CD review outlets, and non-fans would be a complete and utter waiste of my time and effort. 

My respect for Axl is for purely his musical talent.  If others fail to, that's entirely their business, not mine.

What you advocate "fans" to do sure seems expensive and time consuming.  I remember a day when all being a fan required was enjoying the music, not acting as Axl's musical distributor, lawyer, publicist, and critic.

But you go ahead.  I'd like to see the thank you letter from Axl for all your effort.

[RichardNixon]

mmm.. some fairly generic stereo-typing in your thread Nixon. Its not all as black and white as you make it out. People who believe Axl was an ass to the original members are not necessarily moronic, mullet wearing Ratt fans. Wake up and look at the facts, some fans of music have a genuine beef with the fact that the greatest band since Zeppelin was dismantled in such a flippant manner by Axl. Constant press over the years pertaining to Axl being the sole reason Guns were successful hasn't helped the cause any either.

But lets not go there....

I honestly predict it will be as divisive and heated as the 2004 American Presidential election.

This is hilarious? Surely youre taking the piss here?

I agree, Axl needs to let the music do the talking, and silence critics with quality performances.

Whining and lame excuses ends now!

Axl did not destroy the old band. I am sick of hearing that. Who was smacked out of their skulls for the UYI tour? Not Axl. Axl is no saint, but he alone did not destroy the old band. They all quit! Stop trying to paint Axl as the villian. And you are right, they are "not necessarily moronic, mullet wearing Ratt fans." I'm sure some of them sport Bon Jovi and Metallica shirts as well.

[RichardNixon]

I don't think anyone needs to be "shutting up" anyone else for having an opposing view of GN'R and Axl... that being said... Nixon is correct to state that we should do everything in our power to insure that our point of view is at least HEARD... no one needs to go around beating the hell out of Nirvana fans... but it wouldn't hurt to be sure that we: (a) buy several copies of CD (if possible- give em away as X-mas and B-Day gifts); (b) request GN'R from our local radio stations; (c) attend the concerts; (d) make intelligent write-ups and reviews of CD on Amazon, etc.; (e) write-up objective and informed reviews of GN'R concerts; (f) reach out to those friends and relatives of ours that we know at some time liked GN'R and (g) "stick up" for the band in a RESPECTFUL way when you hear it get dissed in casual conversation... and this to me is probably the most important thing, because I find it happens ALL THE TIME... I was at dinner the other night with my wife (27) and some slightly younger couples (23-24), and one of the girls was having a laugh about how I liked Guns N' Roses and Axl, etc. and I calmly (emphasize calmly) debated her back... by the end of the night she, as well as most of the other couples, were dying to get her hands on a copy of CD. So many of the "haters" have no depth or real commitment to their opinions (NOTHING compared to the depth of our understanding and respect for GN'R)... if you respectfully debate with them... they usually fold and admit that they at least like a few GN'R songs. The reality is, many of these people (even just 2-3 yr. age difference- but that's how quickly the landscape changed in 93-94) just went to high school in an era when GN'R was uncool and they've never known any different nor bothered to research their initial impressions.

Now there's a hardcore group of Axl Rose haters out there that know their shit and just don't happen to like the guy at all... no matter what. Fine. No need to even debate these people... but we can at least compete against them for control over the media's perception of Axl and GN'R... I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Seems to me that they've been running the show for too long...

Very good. We need posts like this. This is what I had in mind. Time to rally the gunners.

[warrocks]

I'll do what I can in my country and wherever I can 

[jimmythegent]

Axl did not destroy the old band. I am sick of hearing that. Who was smacked out of their skulls for the UYI tour? Not Axl. Axl is no saint, but he alone did not destroy the old band. They all quit! Stop trying to paint Axl as the villian. And you are right, they are "not necessarily moronic, mullet wearing Ratt fans." I'm sure some of them sport Bon Jovi and Metallica shirts as well.

well its true that they had their problems with substance abuse and the like, but I find it trite to use that as a rationale to marginalise great talents like Slash and Izzy specifically. I refer to Izzy being asked to take a pay cut and be put on contract, I refer to Axls constant no shows or being late for gigs, throwing tantrums etc.., I refer to him getting Paul Huge involved without any consultation with the lead guitarist, I refer to Axl being generally inconsistent for the other band members to be able to continue any feasible working relationship with the guy.

These are the reasons they "quit" and these are the very same reasons that certain fans of music of all shapes, sizes, genres, intellects etc... think Axl has behaved like an ass. Not because there is a media conspiracy to "bring him down", not because his former band mates secretly conspire to make him fail. No - all his own making.

I, like many other people, love Axl for the music he's given us and it doesn't make me any less of a fan because I call into question some of his behaviours

Anyways, like I said, I don't want to get into that debate ...?

[RichardNixon]

Fair enough. Axl is no saint. But the truth is we weren't there. We can only go by what Axl, and the x-gunners say. But forget about all that. In '06, what can we do to help Axl? That is the point of this thread.

[Communist China]

How about we all buy 1 album and go to any show near us. There is no need to spread propaganda.

[Acquiesce]

repeat

No.

I think people here have missed the point. Obviously people can say whatever they want. But when the album is released and when activity starts up again, we should be there to stand up for Axl after his long absence.

If people misunderstand its because of your poor choice of words in your topic. You don't need to "stand up" for Axl, but if you mean supporting him, then that's fine. Join a street team or do whatever you feel like to promote the music without pestering people. However, you have to realize nothing you can do is going to change the mind of haters unless they are open minded. If they are close-minded about the music then its unlikely they are going to care about something such as positive reviews written by Axl diehards on Amazon. Don't worry about what others think. Just enjoy the music. Now, if you want to promote the music just because you love the music and want to share it, that's great, but don't do it because you want to change minds because that is unlikely to happen.

[RichardNixon]

repeat

No.

I think people here have missed the point. Obviously people can say whatever they want. But when the album is released and when activity starts up again, we should be there to stand up for Axl after his long absence.

If people misunderstand its because of your poor choice of words in your topic. You don't need to "stand up" for Axl, but if you mean supporting him, then that's fine. Join a street team or do whatever you feel like to promote the music without pestering people. However, you have to realize nothing you can do is going to change the mind of haters unless they are open minded. If they are close-minded about the music then its unlikely they are going to care about something such as positive reviews written by Axl diehards on Amazon. Don't worry about what others think. Just enjoy the music. Now, if you want to promote the music just because you love the music and want to share it, that's great, but don't do it because you want to change minds because that is unlikely to happen.

My choice of words was fine. Try reading next time.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

There are a few types of Axl haters, the GnR fans who sides with Slash and Co. and begrudge Axl because they believe he was the one responsible for breaking up the band.  I used to sort of be in this group, but I've come to realize that Axl was thrown under the bus by the media in a lot of cases.  What a lot of people don't talk about is that Duff and Slash were drunk and stoned out of their minds most of the time when the band was falling apart, and probably weren't the easiest people to communicate or work with

Then there are the people who bought into all of the bad press, particularly in the stage where the media and much of the country were draped all over Cobain's scrotum, that Axl Rose is a racist, a homophobe, white trash, not talented, crazy, and all the other stuff.  These are the people who are the worst, because they are the closeminded crowd that have already made up their mind that the album will be horrible.  Chinese Democracy could be one of the greatest albums in years, but it wouldn't matter to this group because to them anything attached to Axl Rose is bad. 

The people in the second group can go fuck themselves    They live for negativity and all they want to do is bash, there's nothing anyone can do to change these peoples minds, and no matter what not everyone is going to like the album, and all the criticism of Axl Rose in the media and in music circles, deserved and undeserved, has impacted many peoples perspectives.  At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, the album will sell millions of copies worldwide and from what I've heard so far will be a great album, you can't please everyone so there's no point in trying, no point in wasting your time trying to convince negative, elitist whiners who won't give the album a chance because Axl's involved to give it chance, it's their loss if they're petty enough to ignore good music just because of who's name's on it

[Acquiesce]

repeat

No.

I think people here have missed the point. Obviously people can say whatever they want. But when the album is released and when activity starts up again, we should be there to stand up for Axl after his long absence.

If people misunderstand its because of your poor choice of words in your topic. You don't need to "stand up" for Axl, but if you mean supporting him, then that's fine. Join a street team or do whatever you feel like to promote the music without pestering people. However, you have to realize nothing you can do is going to change the mind of haters unless they are open minded. If they are close-minded about the music then its unlikely they are going to care about something such as positive reviews written by Axl diehards on Amazon. Don't worry about what others think. Just enjoy the music. Now, if you want to promote the music just because you love the music and want to share it, that's great, but don't do it because you want to change minds because that is unlikely to happen.

My choice of words was fine. Try reading next time.

My reading and comprehension skills are excellent. A thread with the title such as yours just sounds ridiculous especially since it doesn't have to do much with the point you were trying to get across.

[RichardNixon]

Re-Read the origanal post. It's a call to rally the troops to stand up for Axl, because there is going to be a lot of naysayers. Godamnit.

[Acquiesce]

Re-Read the origanal post. It's a call to rally the troops to stand up for Axl, because there is going to be a lot of naysayers. Godamnit.

I understand your point.  I am saying your title doesn't fit it. "The psychological makeup of Axl Rose haters." Come on, that sounds ridiculous. It sounds like they have a bizarre mental defect and you're trying to figure them out. 

[oldgunsfan]

Re-Read the origanal post. It's a call to rally the troops to stand up for Axl, because there is going to be a lot of naysayers. Godamnit.

It's the initial post that is quite ridiculous.  Stand up for Axl??  I would go thru allthe rasons why but you can read my posts. 

[oldgunsfan]

Greetings all:

I would like to take a moment to discuss the psychological makeup of the Axl Rose haters and then, as a community, how we, as loyal fans, can best combat them.

Your participation in this thread would be most appreciated. Whether you be a newbie, or a veteran. Now let us begin.

Axl Rose is unique in the fact that he is both equally loved and reviled more passionately then almost anyone else. People familiar with Mr. Rose either love him or hate him. To his loyal fans, he is an almost messianic, Christlike tortured genius. To his detractors he is a woman-beating, homophobic, petty dictator (AMG). While some fans do see the gray and acknowledge both his good and bad points, in the end, people usually either strongly like, or dislike Axl Rose. As of this writing it's been nearly 15 years since GN'R released their last studio album, yet when demos were leaked on the net, it was as though the Chinese were invading. All over the Internet and across the US where the songs were previewed on the radio, fans/non-fans weighed in with their two cents. A decade and a half later, people are eager to voice their opinion.

Few rock/music fans seem to be indifferent about the new songs and the prospect of a new album. People are either excited and drooling at the prospect, or they want to get up on a soapbox and trash Axl Rose senseless. It's as though non-Axl fans would like nothing more than to see him fail.

I will categorize the anti-Axl folk into three categories:

(1) The old-school gunners -- The "If Slash isn't there, it's not GN'R" crowd.
(2) The Mullet-heads-Still stuck on the Crue and Ratt, most aren't sophisticated enough to appreciate the brilliant Illusion albums.
(3) The Morrisey/Westerbeg crowd- These folks tend to post at the Velvet Rope. Elitist, pseudo intellectual types who regard "Chinese Democracy" as the "buttock 'Smile,'" Perhaps our greatest foe, these people tend to think that their shit doesn't stink and are perhaps the most vehemently Anti-Axl and self-righteous.

When "Chinese Democracy" drops, it's going to drop big-time. On all boards, everywhere, people are going to go nuts. I honestly predict it will be as divisive and heated as the 2004 American Presidential election.

All of this taken into consideration, the question is asked, what is the role of us, the few, the proud, the hard-core fans...What are we to do? How do we challenge and immobilize the people that want Axl to fail? Do we have a broad-reaching plan of action for all three above anti-Axl groups? Or do we have a special strategy for each?

Why should we care? What is the point of standing up for Axl? I will tell you. While most music/rock fans have strong opinions, the media, which will influence the general public, are up for grabs. The media must know that Axl Rose is supported, which will help the band in the long-run. We must let it be known that we like "Chinese Democracy," and we must yell louder than the anti-Axl contingent, because they will yell very loud indeed.

GN'R/Axl fans, speak your mind...

Discuss...?

IS this what you mean Mike G about some of the GnR fans that post on this board

[mikegiuliana]

This thread is quite frightening.. A thread like this over the course of tiem can turn the casual gnr fan into a gnr hater