History of steps taken in 2002?

[irgspice]

Does anyone recall the chain of events that lead up to the 2002 mini-tours in Asia, Europe and the U.S.?  Right now is very reminiscent of those days, in terms of ballooning GNR message board activity, high volume of rumors (which in many cases turned out to be true), impending press releases, etc.  It would be interesting to look at what lead up to those tours and the timing of those events.  We felt like Chinese Democracy was about to be released then and I want to learn from those mistakes...

[I mentioned this within another topic - apologies for the redundancy]

[irgspice]

An actual timeline / chronology of activity from 2001 through the cancellation of the Philly shows in 2002 (I still feel the heartbreak from that) would be excellent.

[sic.]

This is incomplete, naturally, but might help a bit.

January 1st, 2001 - The new GN'R line-up plays their first show together at the House Of Blues in Las Vegas.
January 14th, 2001 - GN'R plays in front of about 200 000 people at Rock In Rio III in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
January 22nd, 2001 - GN'R Slowly Unveiling More European Tour Dates
March 7th, 2001 - Guns N' Roses Adds More European Dates
April 24th, 2001 - GUNS N' ROSES AND DOUG GOLDSTEIN FIND SANCTUARY
May 10th, 2001 - GN'R cancels their European tour that was supposed to start on June 1st. (Due To Buckethead's Illness)
May 30th, 2001 - Guns N' Roses Reschedule European Tour
June 30th, 2001 - Axl / Doug Goldstein separated, Tom Zutaut replaces Bob Ezrin in A&R
July 26th, 2001 - Buckethead leaves / comes back (Early August)
August 8th, 2001 - Guns N' Roses Las Vegas DVD Due Sept. 21
October 2nd, 2001 - GN'R cancels UK tour? (Can't replace Buckethead)
October 23rd, 2001 - Buckethead brought back
November 8th, 2001 - GN'R cancels their rescheduled European tour that was supposed to start on December 2nd in Arnhem, The Netherlands. Many of the shows sold out without any major promotion. Goldstein takes blame.
December 29th, 2001 - GN'R plays at The Joint in Las Vegas, Nevada.
December 31st, 2001 - GN'R plays at The Joint in Las Vegas, Nevada.

--

February 12th, 2002 - Roy Thomas Baker, Tom Zutaut fired
April 24th, 2002 - GN'R is set to play for SummerSonic festival '02 in Japan.
April 27th, 2002 - Guns N' Roses to headline Leeds festival
June 13th, 2002 - New GN'R tour dates (China, Belgium, UK)!
July 17th, 2002 - Guns N' Roses Trade Paul Huge For Psychedelic Furs' Guitarist (Richard Fortus)
August 5th, 2002 - Guns N' Roses Expand World Tour; Nixes North American Trek?
August 14th, 2002 - GN'R plays the first date on their Chinese Democracy World tour in Hong Kong, China.
August 29th, 2002 - GN'R closes the 2002 MTV VMAs in New York with a medley of Welcome To The Jungle, Madagascar and Paradise City!
October 30th, 2002 - No Chinese Democracy ads in early December?
November 7th, 2002 - GN'R's first show on the North American Chinese Democracy tour in Vancouver, Canada is cancelled.

December 6th, 2002 - GN'R were supposed to play at the First Union Center in Philadelphia, PA.

[Axlfreek]

those were bad times for the most part, though some of it was great (VMA's, seeing them live in Columbus), we all got let down a lot it seems like. Hopefully with all this new stuff going on it will mean a brand new clean start and it will all go smoothly.

[oneway23]

The main priority of this developing European trek is really going to have to be gaining back the trust of promoters, and showing them that putting so much money up front is a worthwhile investment.  There simply can't be any further excuses; this thing has to go off without a hitch.

[GnR-NOW]

Well so far no major promotion by gnr about the tours, no real official comment from them other then just confirming it through the individual sites.  They need to get a statement saying when CD will be released, or they can expect a 2002 debacle all over again especially in the "US.

[Krispy Kreme]

those were bad times for the most part, though some of it was great (VMA's, seeing them live in Columbus), we all got let down a lot it seems like. Hopefully with all this new stuff going on it will mean a brand new clean start and it will all go smoothly.

I think a US tour will be problematic (not draw very well). First, the older fans  may not like the new  material and want to hear the older songs, and I doubt that the set list will have more than 30-35% of older material; and second, GNR/Axl have been out of the spot light for so long now, they really have not created a fan base among non-GNR fanatics. So I am very doubtful  that a tour, if it happens, will be a smash success. Europe is different.

[alexh0618]

those were bad times for the most part, though some of it was great (VMA's, seeing them live in Columbus), we all got let down a lot it seems like. Hopefully with all this new stuff going on it will mean a brand new clean start and it will all go smoothly.

I think a US tour will be problematic (not draw very well). First, the older fans? may not like the new? material and want to hear the older songs, and I doubt that the set list will have more than 30-35% of older material; and second, GNR/Axl have been out of the spot light for so long now, they really have not created a fan base among non-GNR fanatics. So I am very doubtful? that a tour, if it happens, will be a smash success. Europe is different.

To bring in non-GNR fanatics, the must tour with a strong and popular band. A band that has its own following but still appeals to many people. This was the problem when they toured with CKY in 02. CKY, while have a strong fanbase, did not appeal to many people because they were not that popular.

GNR has to tour with another popular band if they want to fill alot of seats.

[oneway23]

Axl will never concede to touring with a band of equal popularity, much less a band of greater success.  Don't bring up the Metallica '92 tour either.  Axl owns his own little world now more than ever.

[Crashdiet]

axl should only play cities in north america that he can sell out. la, new york, chicago, toronto, etc.... only like a 6-10 shows, and sell them out. half filled arena tarnish the gnr image and make axl n the boys look like has-beens. tour the shit out of europe, asia, south america, until their back in popular culture... then and only then try a full blown north american tour

[alexh0618]

Axl will never concede to touring with a band of equal popularity, much less a band of greater success.? Don't bring up the Metallica '92 tour either.? Axl owns his own little world now more than ever.

I'm not saying a band that is as popular as GNR. Just maybe an up-and-comming one or one that has made a name for themselves but not a MAJOR band.

I would personally like to see a band like The Darkness or Silvertide tour with them. Not too many people know about them but they are potential big stars. Yes, The Darkness is popular in Europe but they are not that well known in the states. I know for a fact that many people I know would definetly go to a new GNR show if one of those bands were the opening act.

People just have to face that new GNR cannot have a real succesful tour here if the album isn't out and/or they do not have a strong band to tour with.

[echrisl]

axl should only play cities in north america that he can sell out. la, new york, chicago, toronto, etc.... only like a 6-10 shows, and sell them out. half filled arena tarnish the gnr image and make axl n the boys look like has-beens. tour the shit out of europe, asia, south america, until their back in popular culture... then and only then try a full blown north american tour

And a 6-10 show tour wouldn't make them look like has-beens?

Axl will never concede to touring with a band of equal popularity, much less a band of greater success.  Don't bring up the Metallica '92 tour either.  Axl owns his own little world now more than ever.

I'm not saying a band that is as popular as GNR. Just maybe an up-and-comming one or one that has made a name for themselves but not a MAJOR band.

I would personally like to see a band like The Darkness or Silvertide tour with them. Not too many people know about them but they are potential big stars. Yes, The Darkness is popular in Europe but they are not that well known in the states. I know for a fact that many people I know would definetly go to a new GNR show if one of those bands were the opening act.

People just have to face that new GNR cannot have a real succesful tour here if the album isn't out and/or they do not have a strong band to tour with.

I wonder if Hoobastank is free ... I hear they like GNR fans:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=26792.0

[alexh0618]

axl should only play cities in north america that he can sell out. la, new york, chicago, toronto, etc.... only like a 6-10 shows, and sell them out. half filled arena tarnish the gnr image and make axl n the boys look like has-beens. tour the shit out of europe, asia, south america, until their back in popular culture... then and only then try a full blown north american tour

And a 6-10 show tour wouldn't make them look like has-beens?

Axl will never concede to touring with a band of equal popularity, much less a band of greater success.? Don't bring up the Metallica '92 tour either.? Axl owns his own little world now more than ever.

I'm not saying a band that is as popular as GNR. Just maybe an up-and-comming one or one that has made a name for themselves but not a MAJOR band.

I would personally like to see a band like The Darkness or Silvertide tour with them. Not too many people know about them but they are potential big stars. Yes, The Darkness is popular in Europe but they are not that well known in the states. I know for a fact that many people I know would definetly go to a new GNR show if one of those bands were the opening act.

People just have to face that new GNR cannot have a real succesful tour here if the album isn't out and/or they do not have a strong band to tour with.

I wonder if Hoobastank is free ... I hear they like GNR fans:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=26792.0

HAHAHAHA

[Continental Drift]

I've always felt that Axl was touring against his will in '02... I don't think he was happy with his appearance.... the state of the band (especially the BH v. Robin bs).... and the state of CD.... I think the MSG gig and the London shows were the only thing that motivated him... just my two cents.

The MSG show was outstanding, as were a few of the others... but it was basically a crappy time for GN'R.... heading out on the road when they were nowhere near ready to go conqueor the world...

[Krispy Kreme]

axl should only play cities in north america that he can sell out. la, new york, chicago, toronto, etc.... only like a 6-10 shows, and sell them out. half filled arena tarnish the gnr image and make axl n the boys look like has-beens. tour the shit out of europe, asia, south america, until their back in popular culture... then and only then try a full blown north american tour

I agree, but are 6-10 cities in North America a real "tour"? And if GNR, which was once the greatest rock band alive, cannot do a full out tour in its native country, what does that say about the future of the band?

[pasnow]

This is incomplete, naturally, but might help a bit.

January 1st, 2001 - The new GN'R line-up plays their first show together at the House Of Blues in Las Vegas.
January 14th, 2001 - GN'R plays in front of about 200 000 people at Rock In Rio III in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
January 22nd, 2001 - GN'R Slowly Unveiling More European Tour Dates
March 7th, 2001 - Guns N' Roses Adds More European Dates
April 24th, 2001 - GUNS N' ROSES AND DOUG GOLDSTEIN FIND SANCTUARY
May 10th, 2001 - GN'R cancels their European tour that was supposed to start on June 1st. (Due To Buckethead's Illness)
May 30th, 2001 - Guns N' Roses Reschedule European Tour
June 30th, 2001 - Axl / Doug Goldstein separated, Tom Zutaut replaces Bob Ezrin in A&R
July 26th, 2001 - Buckethead leaves / comes back (Early August)
August 8th, 2001 - Guns N' Roses Las Vegas DVD Due Sept. 21
October 2nd, 2001 - GN'R cancels UK tour? (Can't replace Buckethead)
October 23rd, 2001 - Buckethead brought back
November 8th, 2001 - GN'R cancels their rescheduled European tour that was supposed to start on December 2nd in Arnhem, The Netherlands. Many of the shows sold out without any major promotion. Goldstein takes blame.
December 29th, 2001 - GN'R plays at The Joint in Las Vegas, Nevada.
December 31st, 2001 - GN'R plays at The Joint in Las Vegas, Nevada.

--

February 12th, 2002 - Roy Thomas Baker, Tom Zutaut fired
April 24th, 2002 - GN'R is set to play for SummerSonic festival '02 in Japan.
April 27th, 2002 - Guns N' Roses to headline Leeds festival
June 13th, 2002 - New GN'R tour dates (China, Belgium, UK)!
July 17th, 2002 - Guns N' Roses Trade Paul Huge For Psychedelic Furs' Guitarist (Richard Fortus)
August 5th, 2002 - Guns N' Roses Expand World Tour; Nixes North American Trek?
August 14th, 2002 - GN'R plays the first date on their Chinese Democracy World tour in Hong Kong, China.
August 29th, 2002 - GN'R closes the 2002 MTV VMAs in New York with a medley of Welcome To The Jungle, Madagascar and Paradise City!
October 30th, 2002 - No Chinese Democracy ads in early December?
November 7th, 2002 - GN'R's first show on the North American Chinese Democracy tour in Vancouver, Canada is cancelled.

December 6th, 2002 - GN'R were supposed to play at the First Union Center in Philadelphia, PA.

Dec 6th - 5:30, leave work.
               7:00 Meet up with friend Sean
               7:30 Leave for Wachovia Center
               8:00 Arrive in parking Lot, drink beer or two.
               8:10 Lock up car, begin journey into venue.
               8:14 Run into guy seeling {counterfeit} shirts, $17 each. Offer $20 for 2, deal made.
               8:20 Enter show, hear Rush's 'Tom Sawyer playing. Turns out it's not the house music, but the Beastie Boys DJ as the opening act.
               8:25 Wait in line for $6 overpriced, stale beer.
               8:45 Find seats, on the floor, back near the soundboard, opening acts done.
               9:00 Anticipation builds. 2 attractive girls sit next to me.
               9:01 I tell Sean he picked the wrong seat, hahaha, j/k.
               9:10 Cheers start.
               9:12 Cheers fade.
               9:15 Talk begins..
               9:30 Cheers begin.
               9:33 Cheers fade.
               9:45 Talk begins again... {can't be true}
              10:00 Cheers begin.
              10:05 Cheers fade.
              10:10 This is odd (I'll tie into this later) Girl next to me get's call on her cell phone, I hear her say "He's not coming???" She hangs up, says something to her friend and they prepare to leave. Hearing what she said, I ask "Is the band not playing?" She says that's not it, and leaves..
              10:15 Fans begin boooing and throwing things from the 2nd level (Sodas, popcorn etc).
              10:25 Booing stops.
              10:30 Cheering begins.
              10:40 Cheering silences. At this point a significant amount of the crowd begins leaving. In Philly Unions are strong, and no concerts can extend past midnight. Alot of us begin realizing this show isn't going to happen. But, maybe he'll work it out & pay some extraordinary fines, right???
              10:45 Booing, screaming, F-Bombs, throwing stuff continues. More people leave.
              11:00 Nearly the whole stadium stands in shock, anger, disappointment. WTF??? No one sits down again.
              11:15 That's it, it's over. Now, we were seated at the floor, and I remember looking up, and just seeing a massive amount of soda's popcorn, trash, etc being thrown down. I see the stadium security basically run for cover (I can't blame them, they're paid $9/hr to keep crowds under control for when concerts HAPPEN. Not for when Axl throws a hissy fit and doesn't show up). This is when the "riot" begins. More like a mini riot. Sean and I were among them. Sitting on basically fold up chairs on the B-ball & hockey ring floor, we & others nearby, pick them up, and throw them at the closest object, the soundboard. Grab more, and maybe 20 of us throw a total of 20-30 towards it. Maybe 5 make decent contact. People are running thru the halls creating a ruckus, grabbing shirts, stealing stuff I'm sure. In hindsight, I wish I had ran upstage and looked for one of their guitars.
               11:30 Leave the stadium, pass by about 30 of Philly's finest (cops) about to enter tthe stadium with the look of fear on their faces. I walk by and pat one of them on the shoulder and say "F$%& Axl!!"  They are unsure themselves of what exactly is occuring and I think one of them asked. We tell them the band never showed. One joked back "Bet you'll never see those guys again" (At the time I fully agreed, but if he came back, yeah I'd probably go) I remember the look on a black, female police officers face, and how she did not want to be there. I tell them it's not THAT bad inside, everyone's pretty much left. We walk on & begin to call friends, brothers etc about what happened.
             8:30AM Sat Here's where it all ties together in an odd way. I chose to go snowboarding the next day and leave for the Pocono's early in the morning, disappointed. On the way, I listen to the local Sports Talk Radio station, being December, I suppose to hear about the Eagles (Football team, not the band) Maybe they will bring this Philly kid happiness.) Oddly enough, the host is talking off & on about the concert and how Axl was a no-show. So a guy calls up who says he is a limo driver, and had parked his limo in a VIP section last night. He got to talking to some of the GnR crew or roadies or whatever, and they told him he probably shouldn't bother, and should call his clients and ask they leave before something happens. Axl isn't there. Confused, the driver calls his clients and says "He's not coming" Hmmmm, do you think he called the girls next to me??

[CAFC Nick]

I've always felt that Axl was touring against his will in '02... I don't think he was happy with his appearance.... the state of the band (especially the BH v. Robin bs)....

Could someone please expand on the supposed conflicts between BH and Robin?

[Continental Drift]

It's been reported by people who were backstage during the MSG show that Buckethead and Robin exchanged words... and not just through BH's hand puppet.... It has also been rumored that these guys were having trouble getting along as far back as RIR III...


Putting on Speculation hat:

Lead guitarists are alphas by definition... and it's always going to be difficult to get two top tier lead guitarists to get along in the same band (see Slash v. Zach Wylde)... obviously BH is a guitar god virtuoso... but Robin was the lead guitarist of NIN and had been involved in new GN'R since '97- plus even though he seems a very chill and accepting guy for the most part- I'm sure wasn't thrilled with some of the stunts BH was allegedly pulling with his on-again off-again relationship with GN'R... as well as BH's whole "show stealing" freak routine...