Rights, religion clash in cartoon uproar

[Genesis]

-in islam, to depict any of the muslim prophets is blasphemy, even for humour purposes
-Because the person who designed this cartoon obviously was no muslim, we should explain the rules to him. only then take action

Ok. The cartoon is blasphemic as far as Islam is concerned. But why bother? So some fool made the cartoon. The protests are unwarrented. Muslims seem to think their laws govern everybody. It only becomes offensive, when u take offence.

[nesquick]

-9/11 and 7 June weren't islamic acts. they were terrorist acts

It's a little bit too easy to say that...and what about the Hamas (elected at 75%), the Islamic Djihad, the Muslim Brothers and all those huge islamic terrorist organisation who sometimes even have the pollitical power in the Arabic Countries, elected by the people. And what about this crazy guy in Iran supported by the Iranian people. It's too easy to say "no, no, they aren't muslmims, they are terrorists" while the people in the Arabic countries elected them and give them the power to govern. It means the people agree.

[Surfrider]

-9/11 and 7 June weren't islamic acts. they were terrorist acts

It's a little bit too easy to say that...and what about the Hamas (elected at 75%), the Islamic Djihad, the Muslim Brothers and all those huge islamic terrorist organisation who sometimes even have the pollitical power in the Arabic Countries, elected by the people. And what about this crazy guy in Iran supported by the Iranian people. It's too easy to say "no, no, they aren't muslmims, they are terrorists" while the people in the Arabic countries elected them and give them the power to govern. It means the people agree.

No kidding.  I am tired of hearing this shit.  Its difficult for me to see the difference between someone that wants to "take action" against someone that makes a cartoon making fun of a religion and people that seek violence for other islamic reasons.  Are the majority of muslims terrorists then?  I certainly see more promote violence and cheer when such attacks take place then I see actively speak out against such attacks.

Its just a matter of time until the rest of the world sees the truth.

[nesquick]

Never forget the sense of humour?

[Axls Locomotive]

Did you burn a couple flags yet, Sakib?

no, like a said i blame the people who designed it and agreed to let it be put in papers NOT the government. i said i dont agree with the bashing of the embassies. ANY depiction of the Prophet Muhammad whether humurous or not is banned in islam. END OF STORY

well, that may be the case in your country but most of us live in countries where we are allowed free speech, if you dont like it well thats pretty much tough on you, or if you really believe in free speech then you should just ignore any negative comments directed towards your religion, like we do...in a free country that would be your prerogative...we dont go about burning your flags just because those countries have no respect for equal rights...if you dont like this country and what it stands for then go back to a country where people respect muhammud and stop telling us how to live our lives...burning those embassies after a cartoon depiction is an act of philistines

there's something called free speech and there's respect. that crossed the line. i mean, look at the ideas that will go into childrens heads about muslims that look at that cartoon?

yes and look at the families of the people who have torched those embassies...not exactly respect is it? and not exactly a great example they set for their children...muslim tinted spectacles

and one thing to note...you have to earn respect..you will find there is very little respect for the muslim religion in the western world...maybe if you earned some respect then papers wouldnt print muslim-based humour...judging by current trends, that isnt going to happen soon

with the muslim world reaction to these cartoons, and the subsequent interest in it by the western world dont be suprised if you see numerous muslim humour sites set up...supply=demand

...and it's days like these when i think to myself that im glad im an athiest

[Surfrider]

Mark Steyn
'Sensitivity' can have brutal consequences

February 5, 2006

BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST 
 




I long ago lost count of the number of times I've switched on the TV and seen crazy guys jumping up and down in the street, torching the Stars and Stripes and yelling ''Death to the Great Satan!'' Or torching the Union Jack and yelling ''Death to the Original If Now Somewhat Arthritic And Semi-Retired Satan!'' But I never thought I'd switch on the TV and see the excitable young lads jumping up and down in Jakarta, Lahore, Aden, Hebron, etc., etc., torching the flag of Denmark.



Denmark! Even if you were overcome with a sudden urge to burn the Danish flag, where do you get one in a hurry in Gaza? Well, OK, that's easy: the nearest European Union Humanitarian Aid and Intifada-Funding Branch Office. But where do you get one in an obscure town on the Punjabi plain on a Thursday afternoon? If I had a sudden yen to burn the Yemeni or Sudanese flag on my village green, I haven't a clue how I'd get hold of one in this part of New Hampshire. Say what you like about the Islamic world, but they show tremendous initiative and energy and inventiveness, at least when it comes to threatening death to the infidels every 48 hours for one perceived offense or another. If only it could be channeled into, say, a small software company, what an economy they'd have.

Meanwhile, back in Copenhagen, the Danes are a little bewildered to find that this time it's plucky little Denmark who's caught the eye of the nutters. Last year, a newspaper called Jyllands-Posten published several cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed, whose physical representation in art is forbidden by Islam. The cartoons aren't particularly good and they were intended to be provocative. But they had a serious point. Before coming to that, we should note that in the Western world "artists" "provoke" with the same numbing regularity as young Muslim men light up other countries' flags. When Tony-winning author Terence McNally writes a Broadway play in which Jesus has gay sex with Judas, the New York Times and Co. rush to garland him with praise for how "brave" and "challenging" he is. The rule for "brave" "transgressive" "artists" is a simple one: If you're going to be provocative, it's best to do it with people who can't be provoked.

Thus, NBC is celebrating Easter this year with a special edition of the gay sitcom "Will & Grace," in which a Christian conservative cooking-show host, played by the popular singing slattern Britney Spears, offers seasonal recipes -- "Cruci-fixin's." On the other hand, the same network, in its coverage of the global riots over the Danish cartoons, has declined to show any of the offending artwork out of "respect" for the Muslim faith.

Which means out of respect for their ability to locate the executive vice president's home in the suburbs and firebomb his garage.

Jyllands-Posten wasn't being offensive for the sake of it. They had a serious point -- or, at any rate, a more serious one than Britney Spears or Terence McNally. The cartoons accompanied a piece about the dangers of "self-censorship" -- i.e., a climate in which there's no explicit law forbidding you from addressing the more, er, lively aspects of Islam but nonetheless everyone feels it's better not to.

That's the question the Danish newspaper was testing: the weakness of free societies in the face of intimidation by militant Islam.

One day, years from now, as archaeologists sift through the ruins of an ancient civilization for clues to its downfall, they'll marvel at how easy it all was. You don't need to fly jets into skyscrapers and kill thousands of people. As a matter of fact, that's a bad strategy, because even the wimpiest state will feel obliged to respond. But if you frame the issue in terms of multicultural "sensitivity," the wimp state will bend over backward to give you everything you want -- including, eventually, the keys to those skyscrapers. Thus, Jack Straw, the British foreign secretary, hailed the "sensitivity" of Fleet Street in not reprinting the offending cartoons.

No doubt he's similarly impressed by the "sensitivity" of Anne Owers, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons, for prohibiting the flying of the English national flag in English prisons on the grounds that it shows the cross of St. George, which was used by the Crusaders and thus is offensive to Muslims. And no doubt he's impressed by the "sensitivity" of Burger King, which withdrew its ice cream cones from its British menus because Rashad Akhtar of High Wycombe complained that the creamy swirl shown on the lid looked like the word "Allah" in Arabic script. I don't know which sura in the Koran says don't forget, folks, it's not just physical representations of God or the Prophet but also chocolate ice cream squiggly representations of the name, but ixnay on both just to be "sensitive."

And doubtless the British foreign secretary also appreciates the "sensitivity" of the owner of France-Soir, who fired his editor for republishing the Danish cartoons. And the "sensitivity" of the Dutch film director Albert Ter Heerdt, who canceled the sequel to his hit multicultural comedy ''Shouf Shouf Habibi!'' on the grounds that "I don't want a knife in my chest" -- which is what happened to the last Dutch film director to make a movie about Islam: Theo van Gogh, on whose ''right to dissent'' all those Hollywood blowhards are strangely silent. Perhaps they're just being "sensitive,'' too.

And perhaps the British foreign secretary also admires the "sensitivity" of those Dutch public figures who once spoke out against the intimidatory aspects of Islam and have now opted for diplomatic silence and life under 24-hour armed guard. And maybe he even admires the "sensitivity" of the increasing numbers of Dutch people who dislike the pervasive fear and tension in certain parts of the Netherlands and so have emigrated to Canada and New Zealand.

Very few societies are genuinely multicultural. Most are bicultural: On the one hand, there are folks who are black, white, gay, straight, pre-op transsexual, Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, worshippers of global-warming doom-mongers, and they rub along as best they can. And on the other hand are folks who do not accept the give-and-take, the rough-and-tumble of a "diverse" "tolerant" society, and, when one gently raises the matter of their intolerance, they threaten to kill you, which makes the question somewhat moot.

One day the British foreign secretary will wake up and discover that, in practice, there's very little difference between living under Exquisitely Refined Multicultural Sensitivity and Sharia. As a famously sensitive Dane once put it, "To be or not to be, that is the question."

? Mark Steyn, 2006




Copyright ? Mark Steyn, 2006

[the dirt]

Protesters set fire to Danish Embassy in Beirut
CTV.ca News Staff

Continued anger over the depiction of the Muslim prophet Muhammad in cartoons led to the burning of the Danish embassy in Beirut and calls for the kidnapping and torture of Danes in Iraq.

In Beirut on Sunday, thousands of demonstrators, armed with sticks and stones and waving green Islamic flags, took part in the protest but only a small group tried to break the security barrier.

Security forces fired tear gas and water cannons, but some managed to get into the 10-storey building.

Demonstrators attacked police officers with stones and set fire to several fire engines, according to eyewitness reports, while authorities fired bullets over the crowd.

Security forces said at least 30 people were injured, including police officers, fire fighters and protesters. One man fell to his death.

A security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said embassy staff had emptied the building two days ago in anticipation of protests.

Protesters also stoned the nearby St. Maroun Church, one of the city's main Maronite Catholic churches, as well as private buildings in Ashrafieh, the Christian area in which the Danish embassy is located.

Later Sunday, Interior Minister Hassan Sabei, a Sunni Muslim, submitted his resignation during an emergency cabinet meeting chaired by President Emile Lahoud, although it isn't clear if his resignation had been accepted.

The violence came one day after thousands of protesters in neighbouring Syria set the Danish and Norwegian embassies ablaze.

Militant groups in Iraq called for the kidnapping and torture of Danes.

In a statement released over the Internet, the Islamic Army urged militants to kidnap Danes and "cut them into as many pieces as the number of newspapers that printed the cartoons."

Another group, the military wing of the Army of the Right, handed out leaflets in the insurgent stronghold of Ramadi urging attacks on Danish and non-Muslim targets in Iraq.

There are about 500 Danish soldiers serving in Iraq.

Iraq's trade ministry froze contracts with Denmark and Norway.

Outrage over caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad is being portrayed as the driving force behind the protests. A Danish newspaper first printed the cartoons in late September. Some European newspapers reprinted them last week. The Philadelphia Inquirer reprinted one cartoon on Sunday.

The drawings have touched a raw nerve in part because Islamic law bans any images of the Prophet Muhammad.

The Muslim Canadian Congress's Tarek Fatah says the anger has been fuelled not only by the depiction of Muhammad, but more so at the "mockery with which these cartoons were made."

One cartoon showed Muhammad wearing a turban shaped as a bomb, while another had him telling apparent suicide bombers that there were no virgins left in paradise.

"That is the primary basis of why there is so much sadness," he said, appearing on CTV Newsnet.

"Of course the reaction in the Middle East is equally outrageous and has offended Muslims in Canada."

Leaders appeal for calm

As the violence continues to escalate, world leaders and prominent Muslims are appealing for calm.

"God instructs us to forgive, therefore we, as much as we condemn it strongly we must stay above this dispute," said Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai.

In the Afghan city of Mihtarlam, some 3,000 demonstrators burned a Danish flag and demanded that the editors at the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten be prosecuted for blasphemy, Gov. Sher Mohammed Safi said.

The Danish foreign minister Stig Moeller said: "enough is enough."

"Now it has become more than a case about the drawings: Now there are forces that wants a confrontation between our cultures," he said. "It is in no one's interest, neither them or us."

Lebanese Grand Mufti Mohammed Rashid Kabbani urged Muslims to exercise restraint.

"We don't want the expression of our condemnation (of the cartoons) to be used by some to portray a distorted image of Islam," he said. "Today is a big test for us. Let our expression of condemnation be according to the values of Islam."

Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawi, a prominent scholar in Qatar, joined the ranks of other Muslims condemning the torched embassies.

Qaradawi told Arabic television Al Jazeera that Muslims should instead demonstrate their opposition by boycotting goods of nations who published the cartoons.

"We call on Muslims to show their fury in a logical and controlled manner," Qaradawi said.

"We didn't ask people to burn embassies as some have done in Damascus and Beirut. We asked people to boycott products ... We don't sanction destruction and torching because this is not in line with morality or Muslim behaviour," he said, referring to calls to boycott he made during a sermon on Friday.

In Britain, a senior opposition politician called for authorities to deal with militant protesters after a rally in London which featured signs reading "Europe you will pay, your 9/11 will come" and "Butcher those who mock Islam."

"Clearly some of these placards are incitement to violence and, indeed, incitement to murder, an extremely serious offence which the police must deal with and deal with quickly," said David Davis, the Conservative Party home affairs spokesman.

"Whatever your views on these cartoons, we have a tradition of freedom of speech in this country which has to be protected. Certainly there can be no tolerance of incitement to murder."

With a report from CTV's Joy Malbon

[Eazy E]

so you get the terrorist type radicals and you get the peaceful protesters

....

i fucking h8 the idea and i want to kill the bastard who thought of blaspheming the Prophet Muhammad in such an offensive manner

 

with the muslim world reaction to these cartoons, and the subsequent interest in it by the western world dont be suprised if you see numerous muslim humour sites set up...supply=demand

Really, the whole situation is just setting up a big load of new jokes.

[Genesis]

Four killed in cartoon protests

Indonesian police officers fire warning shots at a demonstration outside the US consulate in Surabaya
Indonesian police fired warning shots at a rally in Surabaya
Four people have died in violent protests against cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad, following more than a week of demonstrations.

Three people died after police in Afghanistan fired on protesters when a police station came under attack, a government spokesman said.

In Somalia, a 14-year-old boy was shot dead and several others were injured after protesters attacked the police.

Further protests have been taking place from Gaza to India, Indonesia and Iran.

They follow attacks on Danish embassies in Syria and Lebanon over the weekend. The cartoons were first published in a Danish newspaper.

Monday's deaths were thought to be the first, but officials in Lebanon have now confirmed that a demonstrator died on Sunday after jumping from the third floor of the Danish embassy in Beirut to escape a fire.

Nationwide rallies

Hundreds of people took part in the morning demonstration in Afghanistan's Laghman province, in a second day of protests in the city.

The province's director of information, Hamraz Ningarhari, told the BBC that a policeman and a number of other people were injured.

Map of Afghanistan

Demonstrators shouted "death to Denmark" and "death to France", and called for diplomats and soldiers from both countries to be kicked out of Afghanistan.

"They want to test our feelings," protester Mawli Abdul Qahar Abu Israra told the BBC.

"They want to know whether Muslims are extremists or not. Death to them and to their newspapers," he said.

Across Afghanistan, hundreds protested in Kandahar and Mazar-e-Sharif, while 200 demonstrators gathered outside the Danish embassy in the capital, Kabul.

In the north-eastern province of Takhar, demonstrators threw stones at government buildings and police fired in the air.

Protests continue

In the port city of Bosaso, in the autonomous Somali region of Puntland, police shot dead one protester and three more were injured after demonstrators threw stones and barricaded streets outside international aid agency buildings.

Peaceful protests were held in several other Somali towns.

In escalating demonstrations around the world:

    * A crowd of about 200 people used stones to smash windows at the Austrian embassy in Tehran, and firecrackers and smoke bombs were set off

    * In Indonesia, police fired warning shots at protesters outside the US consulate in Surabaya, the country's second largest city. Earlier, demonstrators hurled stones and broke windows at the Danish consulate in the city, and there were protests in the capital, Jakarta

    * Riot police in the Indian capital, Delhi, fired tear gas and water cannons to disperse hundreds of students protesting against the cartoons

    * Shops and businesses across Indian-administered Kashmir were closed after a general strike was called in protest at the drawings

    * In Thailand, protesters shouted "God is great" and stamped on Denmark's flag outside the country's embassy in Bangkok, the Associated Press news agency reported

    * There were protests outside the European Union offices in Gaza, following demonstrations there last week.

The cartoons first appeared in a Danish newspaper in September and caused outrage among Muslims, who consider any images of Muhammad offensive.

One of the cartoons shows Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban.

Newspapers across Europe republished the pictures last week, saying they were defending freedom of expression.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4684652.stm

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

it's a forum not a news room. we have google. we have internet. we can check articles if we want.

[Genesis]

we have google. we have internet.

Really now? What a surprise!

[anythinggoes]

it's a forum not a news room. we have google. we have internet. we can check articles if we want.

im sorry but where in the rules does it not say to post a news article relevant to the discussion the news had moved on 4-5 days since topic started and new things have happened since

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

it's a forum not a news room. we have google. we have internet. we can check articles if we want.

im sorry but where in the rules does it not say to post a news article relevant to the discussion the news had moved on 4-5 days since topic started and new things have happened since

i know, but it's just that the articles are long and, at least post the link, and extract and that's cool
but like 2 pages of text .... it makes the thread un-readable.
and we're also interested in what YOU have to say, not some journalist.


peace

[SLCPUNK]

i know, but it's just that the articles are long and, at least post the link, and extract and that's cool
but like 2 pages of text .... it makes the thread un-readable.
and we're also interested in what YOU have to say, not some journalist.


peace

Scroll down!

and..........

It never hurts your brain to read!

 

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

i know, but it's just that the articles are long and, at least post the link, and extract and that's cool
but like 2 pages of text .... it makes the thread un-readable.
and we're also interested in what YOU have to say, not some journalist.


peace

Scroll down!

and..........

It never hurts your brain to read!

 

gimme the link and i'll go read it on the nice formated source webpage.
reading the article in plain text on this forum does hurt my brain

[anythinggoes]

reading the article in plain text on this forum does hurt my brain

 

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

reading the article in plain text on this forum does hurt my brain

 

man, how did u get that picture of me ? it's like 2 year old ....

[Sakib]

there's something called free speech and there's respect. that crossed the line. i mean, look at the ideas that will go into childrens heads about muslims that look at that cartoon?

yes and look at the families of the people who have torched those embassies...not exactly respect is it? and not exactly a great example they set for their children...muslim tinted spectacles

and one thing to note...you have to earn respect..you will find there is very little respect for the muslim religion in the western world...maybe if you earned some respect then papers wouldnt print muslim-based humour...judging by current trends, that isnt going to happen soon

with the muslim world reaction to these cartoons, and the subsequent interest in it by the western world dont be suprised if you see numerous muslim humour sites set up...supply=demand

...and it's days like these when i think to myself that im glad im an athiest

Q i agree with you, they're not showing respect. i'll admit, when i heard the news, i was a bit agitated, as were many. They should complain but not use violence. the thing that makes it offensive is the image sending across to more easy manipulated mind like if a child sees this cartoon, he'll think all muslims be terrorist which totally isn't true. i think that whoever designed this was a fool for being so inconsiderate and wud feel like slapping him. He/she needs explanation of blasphemy in Islam.

Just for the record, Bin Laden is not a good example of a muslim if supposedly, he;s a terrorist. he has a niece in the porno industry which no muslim would allow.

[Sakib]

no, like a said i blame the people who designed it and agreed to let it be put in papers NOT the government. i said i dont agree with the bashing of the embassies. ANY depiction of the Prophet Muhammad whether humurous or not is banned in islam. END OF STORY

Muhammad created Islam for political purposes: to destroy the native culture and religions of the Middle East so he could marry a 6 year old (consummated at age 9). Face it, that is disgusting. Look at what the Muslims did to the great Buddha statue. Look at the remains of many once beautiful Greek statues from Asia Minor, with the faces destroyed. They don't respect the art and ideals of others; fundamentalist Muslims only want to destroy.

Isn't it enough that Islam has 2 main holy cities: Mecca and Medina? They claim a THIRD city, Jerusalem, and want to take it from the Jews. Why can't they be happy with 2 holy cities and let the Jews have just 1? Why do they want to drive Israel into the sea if they have the whole damn Middle East, with all its oil?

I support Israel's stance. They're one of the few countries that recognize the fundamentalist Islam threat, and are fighting to preserve their culture. They also make the best tanks and have the best trained military in the world; they value quality over quantity in their army, and I like that. We could learn a lot from them; they kick our ass every time we have a war game.

I have Muslim friends who follow the basic tenets of Islam, but they reject the obvious garbage. Look at Surah 9:5. It commands Muslims to kill "idolaters" wherever they find them. Let's compare it with Christianity. Matthew 10:23 says Christians should leave where they are persecuted and go elsewhere. They should find people who will listen and leave the unbelievers alone. Judaism is sort of a combination. They fought for Canaan, but they stopped killing when they had a small bit of land for themselves.

The parts of the Koran that tells Muslims to impose their beliefs on outsiders is wrong. Moderate Muslims are good and ignore these bad parts from the 8th century, where they belong. Fundamentalists take it literally and have caused much suffering in the world.

by the way, those verses from the qur'an you happen to quote, have u studied the whole of the qur'an?? because thats very biased. what about the stories where there was rules about true jihad (fight for struggle) which is to only kill those who kill you. to leave temples and stuff alone and not to raid them unless you own the land. Fundamentalists havent caused suffering, thats terrorists. And what's the point in having a religion if you don't spread it? You obviously barely surfaced the qur'an, havent you then?? Also, he didnt "create" islam to marry a 6 year old. He was chosen by the Angel Gibra'eel. also, "kill idolaters where you find them" in what circumstances? what does the rest of the qur'an say? what does the rest of surah say? How do you know it wasn't about war situation?

[SLCPUNK]

by the way, those verses from the qur'an you happen to quote, have u studied the whole of the qur'an?? because thats very biased. what about the stories where there was rules about true jihad (fight for struggle) which is to only kill those who kill you.

Well you are a fundie then, since you condone the murder of people who made this cartoon!!

Quote from: Sakib on February 03, 2006, 04:03:59 PM
i fucking h8 the idea and i want to kill the bastard who thought of blaspheming the Prophet Muhammad in such an offensive manner