Life since 9/11/01

[Guns N RockMusic]

I've watched and read alot of debate on this issue SLC.  I've seen architects and engineers state that what we were told happened, happened and is completely possible.  I've listened to fire chiefs that were there when it went down.  If this movie's claims and suspicions were true, then every Democrat and Republican in Congress are guilty of hiding it and are part of the conspiracy.  This information isn't anything new and I'm sure someone has forwarded this information to people of importance.  If you're willing to believe that everyone in our government is behind this, then you need to begin an armed rebellion and overthrow that corrupt government.

I want to take the implications of your claims further.  I openly admit that I distrust government.  I'm an open conservative-libertarian who does not want the government to keep expanding in power and control.  I advocate (as you all know) the decrease in power and authority our government has.  You and the like on the other hand continue to advocate for more government control over our lives and many of your friends on this board advocate firearm confiscation.  So if our government is really as evil as many of you believe, why do you continue to advocate socialist ideals that increase the span and control of government and argue that anyone outside of govenrment be denied teh means to defend themself?  I find your perception and claims of our government to be a complete logical  contradiciton to the world and model of government you desire less that government be a fascist one (and I know you're certainly not advocating that).  Please explain this to me because my head is starting to hurt even trying to comprehend the implications of your claims.

[Guns N RockMusic]

You should note CNN just picked this up this last week. You should also note that their poll said that 83 percent agreed that the government covered up facts about 9-11.

http://edition.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/23968.exclude.html

And you should note that the poll clearly says "This QuickVote is not scientific and reflects the opinions of only those Internet users who have chosen to participate. The results cannot be assumed to represent the opinions of Internet users in general, nor the public as a whole. The QuickVote sponsor is not responsible for content, functionality or the opinions expressed therein."

This would be like me using a poll from Bill O'Reilly.com to justify an opinion I had.

[SLCPUNK]

I've watched and read alot of debate on this issue SLC.  I've seen architects and engineers state that what we were told happened, happened and is completely possible.  I've listened to fire chiefs that were there when it went down.  If this movie's claims and suspicions were true, then every Democrat and Republican in Congress are guilty of hiding it and are part of the conspiracy.  This information isn't anything new and I'm sure someone has forwarded this information to people of importance.  If you're willing to believe that everyone in our government is behind this, then you need to begin an armed rebellion and overthrow that corrupt government.

I want to take the implications of your claims further.  I openly admit that I distrust government.  I'm an open conservative-libertarian who does not want the government to keep expanding in power and control.  I advocate (as you all know) the decrease in power and authority our government has.  You and the like on the other hand continue to advocate for more government control over our lives and many of your friends on this board advocate firearm confiscation.  So if our government is really as evil as many of you believe, why do you continue to advocate socialist ideals that increase the span and control of government and argue that anyone outside of govenrment be denied teh means to defend themself?  I find your perception and claims of our government to be a complete logical  contradiciton to the world and model of government you desire less that government be a fascist one (and I know you're certainly not advocating that).  Please explain this to me because my head is starting to hurt even trying to comprehend the implications of your claims.

Nobody is claiming the entire body of our government is guilty.

I am not interested in talking about anything else other then this film. Your claims about my political beliefs are false and only brought up to try and discredit me. I did not create this film(s) or theory. I merely have seen what I believe is a great film that should be discussed.

If you refuse to watch the film all the way through, then there is really nothing left to discuss.

If you would like to talk politics and grill me you can, just not on this forum.

[Guns N RockMusic]

I've watched and read alot of debate on this issue SLC.? I've seen architects and engineers state that what we were told happened, happened and is completely possible.? I've listened to fire chiefs that were there when it went down.? If this movie's claims and suspicions were true, then every Democrat and Republican in Congress are guilty of hiding it and are part of the conspiracy.? This information isn't anything new and I'm sure someone has forwarded this information to people of importance.? If you're willing to believe that everyone in our government is behind this, then you need to begin an armed rebellion and overthrow that corrupt government.

I want to take the implications of your claims further.? I openly admit that I distrust government.? I'm an open conservative-libertarian who does not want the government to keep expanding in power and control.? I advocate (as you all know) the decrease in power and authority our government has.? You and the like on the other hand continue to advocate for more government control over our lives and many of your friends on this board advocate firearm confiscation.? So if our government is really as evil as many of you believe, why do you continue to advocate socialist ideals that increase the span and control of government and argue that anyone outside of govenrment be denied teh means to defend themself?? I find your perception and claims of our government to be a complete logical? contradiciton to the world and model of government you desire less that government be a fascist one (and I know you're certainly not advocating that).? Please explain this to me because my head is starting to hurt even trying to comprehend the implications of your claims.

Nobody is claiming the entire body of our government is guilty.

I am not interested in talking about anything else other then this film. Your claims about my political beliefs are false and only brought up to try and discredit me. I did not create this film(s) or theory. I merely have seen what I believe is a great film that should be discussed.

If you refuse to watch the film all the way through, then there is really nothing left to discuss.

If you would like to talk politics and grill me you can, just not on this forum.

I am claiming that if this movie is true (and you do appear to believe it's conclusion is correct) then everyone in government is accountable.

I am not trying to discredit you.? You're a respected poster on this board and nothing I write is going to change that.

I don't want to get into a political argument.? I just want to know how people can argue for bigger government and gun confiscation in one sentence and then claim that government is evil enough to murder 3000 of its own people in another.

[SLCPUNK]

You should note CNN just picked this up this last week. You should also note that their poll said that 83 percent agreed that the government covered up facts about 9-11.

http://edition.cnn.com/POLLSERVER/results/23968.exclude.html

And you should note that the poll clearly says "This QuickVote is not scientific and reflects the opinions of only those Internet users who have chosen to participate. The results cannot be assumed to represent the opinions of Internet users in general, nor the public as a whole. The QuickVote sponsor is not responsible for content, functionality or the opinions expressed therein."

This would be like me using a poll from Bill O'Reilly.com to justify an opinion I had.

It is still a large group of people who believe the government is not being honest. CNN is not a biased news source like OR is.

CNN ran a story with Sheen, and then offered a poll. It's not like the CNN show is a liberal think tank.

83 percent is a big number anyway you look at it. And a Zogby poll said over 50 percent of NYers believed that the government had prior knowledge of 9-11 anyway.

[SLCPUNK]

I am claiming that if this movie is true (and you do appear to believe it's conclusion is correct) then everyone in government is accountable.

I don't want to get into a political argument.  I just want to know how people can argue for bigger government and gun confiscation in one sentence and then claim that government is evil enough to murder 3000 of its own people in another.

I already told you.

Your assumption of me is false, and has nothing to do with the subject matter.

[sandman]

that CNN poll tells that that people think the government is not 100% honest. well no shit! maybe their next poll will tell us the sky is blue.

if anyone want to discuss that movie, start a new thread. and if i watch it, i'll post in that thread.

this is a 9-11 thread. i posed a simple question. motive. i don't care how crazy or far fetched. i am just curious what people think. i thought people would offer tons of potential motives.

but i guess no one has the balls to post cause they know how stupid it would sound. 

[wink]

forget the film. i don't care about the film.

can anyone offer a suggestion as to why someone (aside from bin laden) would orchestrate 9-11?

i love a good discussion about conspiracy theories. i've read plenty about how we were lied to about 9-11. but i need motive to take it seriously.

it's two simple questions i'd like to hear opinions on. WHO? and WHY?

yet no one on this board is willing to offer their opinion on this. is it because it sounds ridiculous when you try to explain?? ?

If you like to read then check this

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/index.html

you'll see some 'connections'
(this is from a Canadian reputable journalism)

can anyone offer a suggestion as to why someone (aside from bin laden) would orchestrate 9-11?

American government... to instil fear and control over its people,? (everytime there is a big event, superbowl, grammys there's a 'high terror' alert), so it can cover up it's involvment with companies linked to terror orginizations.

Whats a coulple thousand lives worth compared to losing billions of dollars in big business and contracts?

All this weird stuff, American seaports being managed by a company based in dubia?, you know how crazy that sounds, how 'paperwork' could easily be tampered with to allow things to be brought in undectected? (nothing against the UAE, but being so close to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and other known 'terrorist' hangouts, it makes me wonder why)

(yeah, I've got the balls to sound stupid? )

Back to the plane and the Pentagon, why wasn't the grass distubed by the 'plane crash'?
How could the hole be so perfectly round? Was it just luck that that part of the pentagon was undergoing renovations, therefor 'loss of life' was minimal?

[Sakib]

people's ignorance has gone through the roof

[sandman]

so the motive is to cover up the government's involvement with companies linked to terror.

at least that's an interesting theory. and takes more thought than some other theories i've heard.

BUT, i have so many unanswered questions that put holes in these theories....

i don't see how fear among the american public would help to cover that up.

 

[wink]

i don't see how fear among the american public would help to cover that up.

To take their mind off the real issue, big business corporate ties.

"CONSPIRACY OR COINCIDENCE?
Is it a conspiracy or a coincidence? There is a long and tangled history between the Bush family and the elite of Saudi Arabia.

It begins in the 1970's in Houston, Texas, when George W. Bush was just starting out in his family's two businesses of politics and oil. The powerful - and very rich - Bin Laden family helped fund his first venture into oil."

"The cozy friendship continued for decades. After a terrorist attack at a barracks in Saudi Arabia which killed 19 Americans, the bin Laden family received a multi-billion dollar contract to re-build. And incredibly, George Bush Sr. was in a business meeting at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Washington on the morning of September 11th with one of Osama Bin Laden's brothers."

"Sept. 11/2001
The attack occurs. The morning of the attack George Bush Sr. is meets with members of the Carlyle Group in Washington. Bin Laden's own brother is at the meeting. Members of the Bin Laden family are allowed to leave the U.S. without questioning two days later."

The 'no fly zone', wasn't lifted yet.

[WARose]

it didn`t affect my life in the slightest way......


@ wink: the bin laden family is not very proud of their most popular member i think......

and what they call family is a organsiation of probably a few thousand people

[Mal Brossard]

What next?  Are you gonna claim London and Madrid were acts of terror created by their own government too?

Actually I had read reports that in the London bombing, the floor of the subway near the bomb was blasted upward rather than downward, showing that the bomb said to be ON the train was actually more likely UNDER the train.

But hey, what do I know?  Apparently I'm just a paranoid nutball conspiracy theorist.

To answer the original question, I haven't been affected.  I constantly fly on planes and don't think anything of it.  The only thing it has done is make me more paranoid of every action of the world's governments.

[WARose]

What next?  Are you gonna claim London and Madrid were acts of terror created by their own government too?

indirectly yes. they supported the US army in iraq.

[SLCPUNK]

that CNN poll tells that that people think the government is not 100% honest. well no shit! maybe their next poll will tell us the sky is blue.

Actually the poll said that the majority of them felt that the government was not honest about 9-11, and covered up vital information about that day.

BUT, i have so many unanswered questions that put holes in these theories....

i don't see how fear among the american public would help to cover that up.

 

You have unanswered questions because you refuse to watch the movie.

Nobody said that "fear among the American Public" would cover anything up.

Not reading and refusing to even listen to other points of view cover things like that up quite well I think.

(It is funny to watch your logic in action. You won't watch the film, then argue against what you think is in the film to prove a point. Pretty funny.)

[sandman]

Nobody said that "fear among the American Public" would cover anything up.

if you're gonna get involved in other's discussions, at least read the posts first so you don't end up making false claims.

quote from wink: "... to instil fear and control over its people, so it can cover up it's involvment with companies linked to terror orginizations."
 

i haven't argued against anything in the film. if you took time to read and fully consider people's posts, you wouldn't have any trouble understadning them.

if i wanted to discuss the film, i would watch it all of it, and then give my opinion. but since i stopped watching soon after they quote a pedestrian that saw the plane from brooklyn (a mile away)..."it didn't look like a commercial plane". 

[SLCPUNK]

if i wanted to discuss the film, i would watch it all of it, and then give my opinion.

You are too lazy to watch. Just like you are too lazy to read.

So instead you ask somebody else for the info, which you try and poke holes in.

Your entire exchange is lazy.

But....... no surprise here.

P.S. if you can get your cell phone to work at 32,000 ft, while going 550 mph, give me a call! I'd love to know what plan you are on. (Since it is impossible.)

****

After it is all said and done, it is pretty obvious our government is covering up important details about 9-11. There is no doubt about that.

[SLCPUNK]

This would be like me using a poll from Bill O'Reilly.com to justify an opinion I had.

No, actually it would not.

OR is a biased source. CNN is not biased.

[The Dog]

Anyone who doubts the validity of what the 9-11 commission has reported should do a search for "popular mechanics 9-11"

They have a lot of counter claims to most of the conspiracy claims.

I have watched/read my fair share of 911 conspiracy theories and, as well done as some of them are, the popular mechanics piece puts most of them to bed.

I do think it is odd that the government won't release the confiscated camera footage of the plane hitting the pentagon though.

EDIT -- ahh, took some time to read through this thread and I'm guessing the movie in question is "loose change"??.

Its well done on the outside, but while they pose a lot of questions, they leave out A LOT as well, simply to make their points seem more valid.  Some of their claims are just downright silly. 

For example:
""""From wikipedia -  of the documentary's proposal that a cruise missile or a small aircraft may have been the cause of damage to the Pentagon, cite the nearly 100 documented accounts from witnesses on the scene who reported seeing a large airliner. Some witnesses specifically noted seeing a 757, while only two witnesses, located some distance from the scene, reported seeing a small plane. Loose Change, however, implies that an equal number of witnesses reported different aircraft as reported a commercial jet, and does not mention the large body of witness reports in support of a commercial jet. Critics of the missile theory note that not a single witness at the scene has ever reported seeing a missile[6]. Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport is located just one mile beyond the Pentagon in the direction the large aircraft was travelling. In Plain View suggests that the large aircraft continued on past the Pentagon and a smaller aircraft struck the building.

In response to the film's suggestion that Flight 93 landed in Cleveland, instead of crashing or being shot down in Pennsylvania, and that passengers were subsequently secretly evacuated to an empty NASA research center, critics in the 9/11 Truth Movement contend that there is virtually no evidence to support that claim and that many witnesses at the time reported seeing and hearing the plane at the crash site""""


If you are going to look at some statements/facts, you MUST consider, or at the very least, MENTION all the facts. 

Also, the bit about the cell phones doesn't take into consideration that the phones built into the airplanes were probably used, not just personal cell phones - I don't know if the tests the film mentions takes that into consideration.  Don't the phones in the back of the airplane chairs work from anywhere?


Either way, it is a very interesting film and I am a firm beliver that we should always question what we are told.

[The Dog]

Back on topic - I kinda know what the original poster means....theres just something in the air so to speak.  For me personally not much has changed, but I think the country as a whole has become much more fearful and stupid.