The Iraq / war on terror thread

[jarmo]

Are you done with the lame insults?

Unbelievable how childish some of you are.





/jarmo

[Rain]

I find this pretty interesting !

Powell regrets UN speech on Iraq WMDs
Former US secretary of state Colin Powell says his United Nations speech making the case for the US-led war on Iraq was "a blot" on his record.

Mr Powell has also said that he had "never seen evidence to suggest" a connection between the September 11, 2001 terror attacks in the United States and the Saddam regime.

In the February 2003 presentation to the UN Security Council, Mr Powell forcefully made the case for war on the regime of Saddam Hussein, offering "proof" that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (WMD).

The presentation included satellite photos of trucks that Mr Powell identified as mobile bioweapons laboratories.

After the invasion, US weapons inspectors reported finding no Iraqi nuclear, biological or chemical weapons.

In an interview with American ABC TV news to be broadcast on Friday (US time), Mr Powell said "it's a blot" on his record.

"I'm the one who presented it on behalf of the United States to the world, and (it) will always be a part of my record. It was painful. It's painful now," he said.

Mr Powell spent five days at the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) headquarters ahead of the speech studying intelligence reports, many of which turned out to be false.

He said he felt "terrible" at being misinformed.

However, he did not blame CIA director George Tenet.

Mr Tenet "did not sit there for five days with me misleading me," he said.

"He believed what he was giving to me was accurate."

Some members of the US intelligence community "knew at that time that some of these sources were not good, and shouldn't be relied upon, and they didn't speak up," Mr Powell said.

"These are not senior people, but these are people who were aware that some of these resources should not be considered reliable," he said.

"I was enormously disappointed."

Civil war concern

As for post-Saddam Iraq, Mr Powell said there was little choice but to keep investing in the Iraqi armed forces.

"What we didn't do in the immediate aftermath of the war was to impose our will on the whole country, with enough troops of our own, with enough troops from coalition forces, or, by (quickly) recreating the Iraqi (armed) forces," he said.

"It may not have turned out to be such a mess if we had done some things differently."

Mr Powell also voiced concern over a possible civil war in Iraq.

"A way has to be found for the Sunnis to be brought into the political process. You cannot let ... Iraq devolve into a mini-state in the north, a larger mini-state in the south, and sort of nothing in the middle," he said.

"The mission we set for ourselves at the beginning, and which we told the Iraqis that we were going to do, is to keep this as a single state. And that's the challenge that we have now."

Mr Powell downplayed his reported differences with Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld, and said he was on good terms with President George W Bush.

"There are some who say, 'well, you shouldn't have supported (the war), you should have resigned', but I'm glad that Saddam Hussein is gone," Mr Powell said.

On Washington's differences with Tehran, Mr Powell also said he does not see "a clear military option with respect to Iran".

- AFP

[Surfrider]

Do you really think it was "bad intelligence"?? I thought he knew perfectly well that there were no WMD's, he just wanted to justify going in there to the public.?

Sure, I believe that he thought the weapons were there.? I do believe that he knew the evidence was not as strong as he was portraying to the public.? However, I have no doubt that he thought they had WMDs.? The government had actual evidence of their existance as close as 1992.? After that, Suddam consistently evaded inspectors and failed to produce evidence of the destruction of the WMDs.? In addition, Clinton along with many other countries (four or five others I beleive) believed Suddam had them also.? Of course, this isn't justifying the war since even if Suddam did have them invasion was a separate question altogether.? But do I think Bush believed Suddam had them?? Yes.? Was it one of the worst mistakes this nation has had to deal with?? Yes.

I, too, have a hard time buying the oil argument this time.

I think Bush actually thought they had WMD's.? I think he ignored the contrary evidence, quite frankly, displaying an appaling lack of leadership and an extreme amount of poor judgement.? I think as soon as the "whisper" of WMD's materialzed, Bush had made his decision on how to act, and rigidly decided to stay the course regardless of what he was confronted with during the process leading up to attack.? After they found out there were no WMD's, they went into damage control mode..which is why the operation has been so poorly run.? They had poor contingency planning and very, very little (and/or very very poor) long term planning for the operation.

I agree with you as well.  I think this is probably the most accurate guess of how things went down. 

[Surfrider]

If the CIA, Britain, Russia and other US operatives told you that Iraq had WMD`s and that they had contact with Bin Laden, Al Quida and Zarqari would n`t you send in troops after Saddam kicked out UN inspectors especially right after 9-11 happened? ? Yes, in hindsight we had bad intelligence but do you sit on your ass and give Saddam the benefit of the doubt? If the security of your country is at stake, what would you do?

Sure if we knew then what we know now, we`d be better off not going into Iraq in the first place, but it diddn`t happen that way.

The CIA and Britain..yes.

Russia? No.? they said they had information that Iraq MIGHT have WMD's, but it was not conclusive enough to act on.

And WE had intelligence, direct intelligence, that there might not be WMD's, too.

You paint it like the intel was slam dunk, and then turned out to be incorrect.? That's false.? The intel was anything BUT a slam dunk from the start, and turned out to be false.

GnRFL, read the Powell articles.  Certainly, he did not believe the evidence was a slam dunk.

[gilld1]

I feel bad for Powell because he tarnished a very standout career for these warmongers who are clueless.  All along it has been based on lies and the  ever-changing rational.  The rational is purely and simply GREED.

[gilld1]

Bin Laden care about Iraq now because it isa popular cause in the Muslim world right now.  The Infidels are there, weapons to use are there, and recruits willing to fight and die are there too.  Who said anything about BL becoming peaceful?  He will not stop until all the Arab world is Wahhibi. 

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Bin Laden care about Iraq now because it isa popular cause in the Muslim world right now.  The Infidels are there, weapons to use are there, and recruits willing to fight and die are there too.  Who said anything about BL becoming peaceful?  He will not stop until all the Arab world is Wahhibi. 

well maybe the method the USA used triggered these recruits to be willing to fight and die for stupid reasons.
maybe a different approach of the Iraqi situation would have had different output.

but hey, with "maybes" .....

[sandman]

i have alot of respect for powell. i think he's a pretty honest guy, which you cannot say about many politicians.

thanks for posting, rain....very interesting comments.

[pilferk]

maybe we should ponder why we are such an evil country and find out why the holy muslim terrorists, who worship the one true god want to kill all those who do not agree with them.

Bullshit, some people make me sick.

Not all muslims are terrorists.  Not all muslims want those that do not agree with them dead.  Not all Iraqi's are terrorists.

See where I'm going with this?

Iraq != Al Qaeda

All Muslims != Al Qaeda

Al Qaeda = Al Qaeda

[pilferk]

55% of what number are they taking this from?? Half what it was at the all time high in attacks?? Or the average?? Becareful with stats, they can be very misleading.?

Actually, one of the things that set Bin Laden off was the US military being in Saudi Arabia, he never gave a shit about Iraq and Sadam.? The latter is just the popular cause for extremists now.

Well, then how come he cares so much about it now??

Osama doesn't give two shits about Saudi Arabia, and he certainly doesn't give two shits about Iraq.? Both places are simply used as excuses and propoganda to further his radical agenda.? Anyone who believes that Osama would turn into a peaceful world participant if the rest of the world was out of the middle east is, in my opinion, naive.? Should the US leave the middle east to the middle east, I doubt very much that Osama will go back to Saudi Arabia and start herding sheep.? In fact, I believe quite the contrary; he will simply look for another place to use his tactics to achieve his ends.?

Absolutely 100% agree...which is why we should have (and should still) focus the majority of our attention on eliminating him from the picture. 

[SLCPUNK]

Yea, I am prety sure, that Powell has major regrets for Iraq.

[pilferk]

Yea, I am prety sure, that Powell has major regrets for Iraq.

I think it's largely why he resigned.  He put his credibility on the line for this administration.  And not only was it "abused", when it came time for the decision making on the issue, he was shoved to the side.

He's another Repub I would vote for...even now...largely because I respect both his discretion and his honesty.

[SLCPUNK]

Yea, I am prety sure, that Powell has major regrets for Iraq.

 I respect both his discretion and his honesty.

me too.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

maybe we should ponder why we are such an evil country and find out why the holy muslim terrorists, who worship the one true god want to kill all those who do not agree with them.

Bullshit, some people make me sick.

Not all muslims are terrorists.? Not all muslims want those that do not agree with them dead.? Not all Iraqi's are terrorists.

See where I'm going with this?

Iraq != Al Qaeda

All Muslims != Al Qaeda

Al Qaeda = Al Qaeda

My post was dripping with sarcasm if you had noticed. Most terrorists are Muslim, but not most Muslims are terorists.

[pilferk]

maybe we should ponder why we are such an evil country and find out why the holy muslim terrorists, who worship the one true god want to kill all those who do not agree with them.

Bullshit, some people make me sick.

Not all muslims are terrorists.? Not all muslims want those that do not agree with them dead.? Not all Iraqi's are terrorists.

See where I'm going with this?

Iraq != Al Qaeda

All Muslims != Al Qaeda

Al Qaeda = Al Qaeda

My post was dripping with sarcasm if you had noticed. Most terrorists are Muslim, but not most Muslims are terorists.

Ah..my bad.  Sarcasm is sometimes difficult to distinguish in print.

[Aero]

Maybe some of the american users in here, doesn't see the things as I see them, that's because USA goverment might control the press opinion... The same as any country does when they want to "light" a problem.

If you read some european or latin newspapers (you can doit online, you can also read the archives) there will be lots of opinions, interpretations, datas, about what really happened.

I did notice that because I use to read/watch my local newspapers/newschannels, and then I saw CNN, the same news were told in a very different way.

[shades]

Yea, I am prety sure, that Powell has major regrets for Iraq.

The only regrets he has is allowing the UN to hold us up for 8 months while Sadamm got rid of the WMD's.
Now we have no idea where they are and we may ALL pay for that someday.

[Rain]

Yea, I am prety sure, that Powell has major regrets for Iraq.

The only regrets he has is allowing the UN to hold us up for 8 months while Sadamm got rid of the WMD's.
Now we have no idea where they are and we may ALL pay for that someday.

oh now a new theory ! While he was threatened to be invaded he just got rid of his wmds ... where did he hide them ?  Oops wrong question, of course he gave them to al quaida ! Silly me 

[pilferk]

Yea, I am prety sure, that Powell has major regrets for Iraq.

The only regrets he has is allowing the UN to hold us up for 8 months while Sadamm got rid of the WMD's.
Now we have no idea where they are and we may ALL pay for that someday.

From Powell's own comments, this is not the case.

From every bit of intel gathered throughout the region, both by US and others, this is not the case (it was a theory floated early in the conflict that was proven to not only be patently untrue, but logistically impossible).

Powell regrets that he made the comments he made for exactly the reasons he has given.

[shades]

So where are they? doesnt that bother anyone?