The Iraq / war on terror thread

[POPmetal]

Anyone? And if you do, why not pick up a gun and blow-up people and get shot at to spread democracy in the Middle East?

And leave the USA to be run by you hippies? After five months of that, America probably wouldn't even be worth fighting for.

[POPmetal]

Yeah, and basically, if you were to ask the same question three years after America entered WWII, it would look just as bad. I agree with sandman. If 15 years from now, most of the middle east is not democratic, peaceful, and prosperous, then I will concede the war was a bad idea. Though I bet if it is successful, many of you would still never agree it was the right thing because that's how steeped in ideology you are.

[SLCPUNK]

Anyone? And if you do, why not pick up a gun and blow-up people and get shot at to spread democracy in the Middle East?

And leave the USA to be run by you hippies? After five months of that, America probably wouldn't even be worth fighting for.

All strawmen aside.....

I'd take hippies over liars, murderers, thieves and crooks any day.

[SLCPUNK]

It really isn't relevant at this point but I think that the world is better off without Saddam being in power.? We are now totally sure that he can no longer build WMD's and fianance terrorism.

Progress is being made in Iraq.? The remaining trouble spots are serious but they are confined to certain areas of the country.? In najaf the US army has handed control over to the Iraqi army.? The US base in najaf was hit by over 1,000 mortar strikes in 2004, in 2005 there hasn't been one attack.? In sadr city in 2004 there were over 100 car bombs directed at coalition troops, so far this year there has one.? Reconstruction efforts aren't being hampered by terrorist violence and the people are begining to see an improvement in their living conditions.

Slowly the Sunni politicans are begining to engage in the political process and they are encoraging their people to vote in the upcoming elections.? The Sunni part of the insurgency will probably end as their people become more confident in the democratic process leaving only the foreign terrorists whose sole aim seems to be killing as many Iraqi civilians as possible which is leading to a rise in information being passed onto coalition troops by Iraqis who have grown tired of seeing their family and friends cut down in the streets.

Al queda just overtook an entire city in the southwest region of Iraq.....

The deadline for the Constitution has been missed several times....

And, they are on the edge of civil war....

You sure paint a rosey picture don't ya?

[POPmetal]

Anyone? And if you do, why not pick up a gun and blow-up people and get shot at to spread democracy in the Middle East?

And leave the USA to be run by you hippies? After five months of that, America probably wouldn't even be worth fighting for.

All strawmen aside.....

I'd take hippies over liars, murderers, thieves and crooks any day.

That's exactly what hippies turn into when they get unchecked power.

[POPmetal]

It really isn't relevant at this point but I think that the world is better off without Saddam being in power.? We are now totally sure that he can no longer build WMD's and fianance terrorism.

Progress is being made in Iraq.? The remaining trouble spots are serious but they are confined to certain areas of the country.? In najaf the US army has handed control over to the Iraqi army.? The US base in najaf was hit by over 1,000 mortar strikes in 2004, in 2005 there hasn't been one attack.? In sadr city in 2004 there were over 100 car bombs directed at coalition troops, so far this year there has one.? Reconstruction efforts aren't being hampered by terrorist violence and the people are begining to see an improvement in their living conditions.

Slowly the Sunni politicans are begining to engage in the political process and they are encoraging their people to vote in the upcoming elections.? The Sunni part of the insurgency will probably end as their people become more confident in the democratic process leaving only the foreign terrorists whose sole aim seems to be killing as many Iraqi civilians as possible which is leading to a rise in information being passed onto coalition troops by Iraqis who have grown tired of seeing their family and friends cut down in the streets.

Al queda just overtook an entire city in the southwest region of Iraq.....

The deadline for the Constitution has been missed several times....

And, they are on the edge of civil war....

You sure paint a rosey picture don't ya?

Granted the picture isn't pretty, there are also good signs about Iraq. How long did it take for the US to come up with a successful constitution? Even if the currently proposed constitution gets rejected, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing as long as it gets rejected at the polls. It's good to be concerned and worried, but you're acting as if failure is certain and everything is doomed.

[SLCPUNK]

We didn't go over to nation build

We went over for WMD.

We failed.

[MCT]

Hang on, the US invaded Iraq?

[POPmetal]

We didn't go over to nation build

We went over for WMD.

We failed.

See, you just did it again with your fatalist view. And you're just being pedantic and bitter. It saddens me that people would be so pedantic and acrimonious that they would rather whine about the failure to find WMDs than to see the smile on the faces of free Iraqi people voting.

[MCT]

What's a WMD anyway?

[SLCPUNK]

We didn't go over to nation build

We went over for WMD.

We failed.

See, you just did it again with your fatalist view. And you're just being pedantic and bitter. It saddens me that people would be so pedantic and acrimonious that they would rather whine about the failure to find WMDs than to see the smile on the faces of free Iraqi people voting.

Stawman alert:



Sorry, but I prefer to live in the real world.
 

[POPmetal]

So whenever you don't have a real response, it's always a "strawman alert" or "because you're dumb."

[SLCPUNK]

I give a strawman alert when you turn something into a strawman argument.

 You proposed a hypothetical (strawman again) question, then asked why you thought that, and I answered with the question "because you are dumb?"

Guess I have to hold your hand and explain everything hmmm?

[Kitano]

This is kinda a pointless thread.  We can't change the past, we're in Iraq and for the sake of the Iraqi people we need to succeed.  Most people in Iraq don't want a dictatorship, they want to live in peace and work to support their families without fear of the secret police coming to take them in the middle of the night for complaining about the government.   In short, they want everything that we take for granted.  That's why they will win because they have no choice but to succeed and every time the 18 year olds line up to join the Iraqi police and army they give al qaida a massive "fuck you".

[Surfrider]

15 years from now, most of the middle east is not democratic, peaceful, and prosperous, then I will concede the war was a bad idea. Though I bet if it is successful, many of you would still never agree it was the right thing because that's how steeped in ideology you are.

Don't hold your breath.  The middle east will never be peaceful and prosperous in our lifetime, that I can assure you.  I don't necessarily fault some for trying, but lets get serious here.

[Surfrider]

This is kinda a pointless thread.? We can't change the past, we're in Iraq and for the sake of the Iraqi people we need to succeed.? Most people in Iraq don't want a dictatorship, they want to live in peace and work to support their families without fear of the secret police coming to take them in the middle of the night for complaining about the government.? ?In short, they want everything that we take for granted.? That's why they will win because they have no choice but to succeed and every time the 18 year olds line up to join the Iraqi police and army they give al qaida a massive "fuck you".

This I hope we could all agree on.

[Sterlingdog]

If my memory serves me right, we were told that Hussein had WMD's and was a threat to us and our allies.  That's why we went in.  When did it change to "we are freeing the Iraqi people"?  Because I wouldn't have supported that.  There are alot of oppressive dictatorships in the world, we can't just take them all out.  How does anyone know that the Iraqi's even wanted us there?  I remember hearing soldiers say that the same people who were running up to them to shake their hands and get water were the same ones shooting at them at night.  They don't like us.  They never will.  Why are we there?

[POPmetal]

I give a strawman alert when you turn something into a strawman argument.

 You proposed a hypothetical (strawman again) question, then asked why you thought that, and I answered with the question "because you are dumb?"

Guess I have to hold your hand and explain everything hmmm?

You answered "because you are dumb" because you know what I said was correct but at the same time you didn't want to admit it. If I was wrong, you would have simply disagreed with me.

And as for this alleged strawman, how did I misrepresent your point of view? Are you not being pedantic and acrimonious? You can't just pick and choose to argue the things you like and cry "strawman" whenever something you don't like pops up.

[SLCPUNK]

Reading that, I guess somebody does have to hold your hand and explain everything to you. It ain't gonna be me, that is for sure.

If you can't keep up, that is not my problem.

[POPmetal]

Reading that, I guess somebody does have to hold your hand and explain everything to you. It ain't gonna be me, that is for sure.

If you can't keep up, that is not my problem.

Yeah that's certainly not your problem, your problem is that you only want to answer the things you like and ignore whatever you don't.