The Iraq / war on terror thread

[Charity Case]

the kid died for oil. thats sad when a leader kills people for oil.

You have to be dumb as a stump to still think this is about oil.  I don't know about where you live, but since we went to war in Iraq for oil (as you stupidly think) my gas prices have risen quite abit.  Man I wish we had taken the oil and my gas prices were like $1/gal.  Don't be a sheep and buy all this propaganda. 

And for someone to say that Iraq is in a tailspin is another moronic statement.  Every single first hand account that I have heard indicates what a huge difference we are making over there.  The first hand accounts are overwhelmingly positive.  I tend to believe first hand accounts from soldiers and contractors before I believe the liberal media and their agenda.  And please stop bringing up the death toll.  It is very, very small for a war fought on foreign soil against inhabitants of that land.  1,300 people......hell we lost 3 times that in 9/11.  No one wants to lose men, but you can hardly point to the lose of life in Iraq as a reason to leave.  Its absurd.  We are making a positive difference in Iraq and it is killing the Bush bashers to have to admit it.

[Charity Case]

How about the women in war torn Africa? Why aren't we marching in to save them?

How about China and their oppression? Why aren't we marching in to save them?

My guess is that these people don't pose a threat to us the way terrorist do.  It's a matter of allocating and prioritizing resources.  I think you often forget that the game changed considerably on 9/11.  Thank god for strong leadership.  Can you imagine if Gore were president and we were still stumbling over the processes in place and appeasing the UN?  What a catastrophy that would have been.  Stop being led around by imbeciles like Moore and Rather.  You seem like a smart kid.  You have to see the reasons for being in Iraq as opposed to Africa.  Don't you?  Tell me you do.

[SLCPUNK]

You have to be dumb as a stump to still think this is about oil.

You can't even get past your first statement without an insult.


And for someone to say that Iraq is in a tailspin is another moronic statement.

Show me links and info, not "first hand accounts that I heard."

You go by "first hand accounts" while the rest of the world goes on cold hard facts, high death toll, constant bombing,a complete meltdown, and NEWS. Not liberal, not conservative, but reporters, soldiers, contractors, civilians, and republicans who know understand that this is a severe mistake.

And please stop bringing up the death toll.  It is very, very small for a war fought on foreign soil against inhabitants of that land.  1,300 people......hell we lost 3 times that in 9/11.  No one wants to lose men, but you can hardly point to the lose of life in Iraq as a reason to leave.  Its absurd.  We are making a positive difference in Iraq and it is killing the Bush bashers to have to admit it.


You only count the American lives lost? How about all the civilians in Iraq that you so badly want "liberated"? Those are in the thousands, making this (so far) much higher a death toll then 9-11.

[SLCPUNK]

I personally would be willing to risk my life to try and save people from being tortured and mass executed. As for the hidden agenda, of course, that's only your opinion. And everybody's got at least one of those.

Then...why are you here on a message board whiiiiiining about all us liberals when you can be out saving the world?

It is pretty common knowledge that the service has an ALL TIME LOW for recruits. They are raising the age group, lowering the standards, accepting highschool dropouts, you name it. So they really need you. I suggest you go sign up, what are you waiting for?

The "hidden agenda" is really out in the open. With no WMD, Downing street memos, a country on the verge of civil war, troop fatalaties climbing and Halliburton receiving yet another billion dollar contract I think the cat is out of the bag. Hell even the guy who rallied around the "freedom fries" bullshit, is taking it all  back now. Wake up man.

[BigCombo]

the kid died for oil. thats sad when a leader kills people for oil.

You have to be dumb as a stump to still think this is about oil. ?I don't know about where you live, but since we went to war in Iraq for oil (as you stupidly think) my gas prices have risen quite abit. ?Man I wish we had taken the oil and my gas prices were like $1/gal. ?Don't be a sheep and buy all this propaganda. ?

And for someone to say that Iraq is in a tailspin is another moronic statement. ?Every single first hand account that I have heard indicates what a huge difference we are making over there. ?The first hand accounts are overwhelmingly positive. ?I tend to believe first hand accounts from soldiers and contractors before I believe the liberal media and their agenda. ?And please stop bringing up the death toll. ?It is very, very small for a war fought on foreign soil against inhabitants of that land. ?1,300 people......hell we lost 3 times that in 9/11. ?No one wants to lose men, but you can hardly point to the lose of life in Iraq as a reason to leave. ?Its absurd. ?We are making a positive difference in Iraq and it is killing the Bush bashers to have to admit it.

Guess what....Iraq is producing less oil now than during the Saddam years. ?As I've mentioned in another thread, the reason gas prices are rising is b/c of demand, not supply. ?If the US took all of Iraq's oil for itself and exported it exclusively to America, ?then yes, gas would be about $1/gallon. ?But, oil from Iraq is being sold on the world's market like it was for the last 50 years; thusly not affecting your gas prices.

[SLCPUNK]

How about the women in war torn Africa? Why aren't we marching in to save them?

How about China and their oppression? Why aren't we marching in to save them?

My guess is that these people don't pose a threat to us the way terrorist do.  It's a matter of allocating and prioritizing resources.  I think you often forget that the game changed considerably on 9/11.  Thank god for strong leadership.  Can you imagine if Gore were president and we were still stumbling over the processes in place and appeasing the UN?  What a catastrophy that would have been.  Stop being led around by imbeciles like Moore and Rather.  You seem like a smart kid.  You have to see the reasons for being in Iraq as opposed to Africa.  Don't you?  Tell me you do.

Yea, Saddam was not a terrorist either, that is the point.

Saddam = Dictatorship and in other countries there are plenty of dictatorships, including Saudi Arabia, a country we do plenty of business with.

Your next point is to imagine a country led by Gore and to tear that down.....amazing really.

[gilld1]

Kitano, you're suggesting I lack moral fiber because I don't support an unjust war? ?Because I don't support a puppet president? ?So what's your opinion of the Founding Fathers? ?They were dissenters against an unjust system. ?

The war in Afganistan was the right one but Iraq had nothing to do with 911. ?How could it not be about oil and getting Bush's buddies rich. ?If it's altruistic then we should have stopped at Cuba first,then Sudan, Tibet, N. Korea, and on and on. ?There is a repressive fundamnetalist Morman town that practices polygamy here in AZ, where the Blackhawks coming to liberate them? ?

I'm glad some of those provinces with more camels than people are safe but Bagdad is hell on earth from everything I've read and seen. ?The Marines have been hit really hard the last 2 weeks pushing the toll over 1800 total. ?We broke their country so we have to stay and fix it. ?Leave now and we have Iran II. ?

[SLCPUNK]

Here is a man liberated of his child.



Here is another man who had his child liberated.



Here is a child who was liberated of both his arms.




Here are the Iraqs dancing in the street since America came to save them.

[SLCPUNK]

Here is a woman liberated from her home and family.



Here is what is left of a child who was liberated.



Another liberated child...........

Aren't you glad we are liberating these people? Good thing we took all those Weapons of Mass Destruction out of there too. Even better that Halliburton can help rebuild this country. Must make you proud to be an American.

[Kitano]

We were never in iraq before, the US army expelled the iraqi's from kuwait and stopped at the border.?

We left all those who rose up to be slaughtered once again by Saddam, in case you forgot.

Saddam gassed the kurds with equipment bought from germany and russia, not from the US.? Are you saying that we should have invaded then?? Since you oppose the current operation it makes your position on military intervention a little confused.

I'm not saying we should have invaded. I'm asking why it is so important now, but was not then?

The USA most certainly aides saddam, including, but not limited to gas.

What have the chinese got to do with iraq?

 You miss the point. Reread my post.

You are confusing Halliburton with one of their subsiduary companies kellog, brown and root.? They have already paid back money that was owed to the US government.

They have not paid the money back and were awarded another billion dollar contract.

Iraq is not in a tail spin.? Life is going on as normal in 14 of the 18 provinces.? There is no civil war begining in spite of the best efforts of the terrorists to incite a conflict between the shiites and the sunnis.? The terrorists have failed in their efforts to take on the US military and large scale attacks on troops have almost ended, they have switched to killing large numbers of civilians with car bombs.? 35,000 terrorists have been killed compared to around 1,300 US soldiers(500 have been killed in noncombat accidents).? Between 70-80% of these casualties have been the result of IED's.? The terrorist attacks have no impact on the strategic situation in the country, the US army goes where they want, the terrorists either run or get killed.


The US army goes where they want?

Have you read ANYTHING lately? ANYTHING?

You can't hardly be serious. But since you deny Halliburtons role in this, the fact that we supplied weapons to Saddam in the past, and that everything is hunky dory in Iraq, I guess you are.

You say we left people to be slaughtered by saddam?  Well, if we had gone in to help them then you would probably have complained about the US getting involved in someone elses war.

You don't have to have any clear idea of what should be done except that you're constantly pissed at the US.

You brought up china and I still don't see what it has to do with a discussion on Iraq.  You can either debate the issue at hand or go off on tangents.

The halliburton subsiduary has already paid back some money and they have been awarded another contract.  The overcharging was deemed to be negligent rather than criminal.

The problem is that you're seeing repeated car bombings in iraq and getting the false impression that the whole country is in flames.  It isn't.  The main problems are around baghdad and in the al anbar province.  These are were the vast majority of the terrorist murders are being committed.  In the shiite south and the kurdish north the situation is pretty calm however the media does not report on these areas because it is overshadowed by the incidents happening around baghdad which is where the majority of the media are based.  The US military does go whereever they want and whenever the terrorists attack the US army they lose badly which is why there has been a trend away from military confrontations and towards the use of car bombs against the civilian population. 

[Kitano]

It doesn't however show the severity of the injuries sustained.? ?It can be anything from a broken leg to something life threatening.

The problem is that this book was written with someone with an agenda and therefore cannot just be taken as an honest account of the war.

So by this rationale, "The Jungle" by Upton Lewis about life in factories in the early 20th century shouldn't be taken as an honest accont either.? ?

?

When reviewing contempary accounts of something it's best to take into account the agenda or lack thereof of the writer.

[BigCombo]

It doesn't however show the severity of the injuries sustained.? ?It can be anything from a broken leg to something life threatening.

The problem is that this book was written with someone with an agenda and therefore cannot just be taken as an honest account of the war.

So by this rationale, "The Jungle" by Upton Lewis about life in factories in the early 20th century shouldn't be taken as an honest accont either.? ?

?

When reviewing contempary accounts of something it's best to take into account the agenda or lack thereof of the writer.

Touche...But since everyone has an opinion on almost everything; is it possible to find anyone without any bias or agenda? 

[SLCPUNK]

You say we left people to be slaughtered by saddam?  Well, if we had gone in to help them then you would probably have complained about the US getting involved in someone elses war.

This is you avoiding my point, and putting words in my mouth instead.

You don't have to have any clear idea of what should be done except that you're constantly pissed at the US.

This is you assuming what I think and then typing it out.

I have stated plenty of times what we should have done. You may not have been around that long, do a search. Again, you are making it black and white. You claim I'm "constantly pissed at the US". Very blanket, back pedal type of statement. Of course I'm not always mad at the USA, the statement is absurd. However I am upset at most everything this administration has done since 9-11.

You brought up china and I still don't see what it has to do with a discussion on Iraq.  You can either debate the issue at hand or go off on tangents.

Again, I ask you to reread my post. Your claim is that those people needed helpl. My claim is that there are plenty of countries around the world that are under an oppression equal to, or worse than Saddam. China is one of those countries, as is Saudi Arabia, but since we make money with those countries it's ok. No tangent here, just learn to read better.

The halliburton subsiduary has already paid back some money and they have been awarded another contract.  The overcharging was deemed to be negligent rather than criminal.

This is simply not true. They have yet to "paid back" for their "negligent" behavior. Negligence around 100 million I might add. This is coming out of your pocket too, and if you feel better denying it, then more power to you. I'd call it criminal, thanks.

[SLCPUNK]

I guess my biggest question is, why do you defend these crooks? Why do you defend the people who steal FROM YOU AND ME, and the elected officials who also PROTECT these crooks?

**********


March 15, 2005
Halliburton Overcharged $108 Million, Report Says
By ERIK ECKHOLM

Excess billing for postwar fuel imports to Iraq by the Halliburton Company totaled more than $108 million, according to a report by Pentagon auditors that was completed last fall but has never been officially released to the public or to Congress.

In one case, according to the report, the company claimed that it had paid more than $27 million to transport liquefied petroleum gas it had purchased in Kuwait for just $82,000 - a fee the auditors tartly dismissed as "illogical."

The fuels report, by the Defense Contract Audit Agency, was one of nine audits involving a subsidiary of Halliburton, Kellogg, Brown & Root, that were completed in October 2004, in the month before the American presidential elections. But the administration has kept all of them confidential despite repeated requests from both Republican and Democratic members of Congress.

Excerpts were released yesterday by the office of Representative Henry A. Waxman of California, minority leader of the House Committee on Government Reform, which said it had obtained the audit through "unofficial channels."

Vice President Dick Cheney formerly headed Halliburton, a conglomerate based in Texas. Allegations of profiteering by the company - hotly disputed by Halliburton and administration officials - were raised in the presidential campaign.

"The facts show that KBR delivered fuel crucial to the Iraqi people when failure was not an option," said Wendy Hall, a spokeswoman for Halliburton, in an e-mail message. "We will continue to work with the Army to prove, once and for all, that KBR delivered these vital services for the Iraqi people at a fair and reasonable cost given the circumstances."

KBR has received more than $10 billion in contracts for work in Iraq, including oil-field repairs, fuel imports and, in a huge separate agreement, provision of housing, meals and other support to the military.

In a letter sent to President Bush yesterday, Mr. Waxman and Representative John D. Dingell of Michigan, minority leader of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, asked for an explanation of why the auditing reports had not been released to Congress and demanded stronger efforts to reclaim funds from Halliburton.

Allegations of overcharging for the fuel imports have swirled from the initial days of the occupation, but in this latest audit the scale of officially disputed charges is higher than previously reported. In December 2003, the same Pentagon auditing agency announced that a preliminary study had discovered $61 million in unreasonable fuel bills up to that point.

The later audit describes "unreasonable" and "questionable" billing of $108 million of total billings of $875 million under an initial "task order" to Kellogg, Brown & Root to import fuels into Iraq.

Similar studies covered eight other task orders granted to KBR, all of them elements of a broad $2.5 billion contract, now completed, to import fuels and make initial repairs to Iraqi oil fields. The total level of questionable billing in those reports remains confidential but could be much higher than the $108 million, the congressmen note in their letter.

The largest allegations of overcharging involve Halliburton's hiring in early 2003, without competitive bidding, of a Kuwaiti company called Altanmia to buy and deliver fuels from Kuwait. Critics say Altanmia's prices were exorbitant, and Pentagon and other Federal investigators are still trying to discover which parties benefited from any excess or illegal profits. Under its "cost plus" contract with the Pentagon, Halliburton could pass along Altanmia's fees, then receive awards for itself ranging from 2 percent to 7 percent beyond its actual costs.

In 2003, officials of Altanmia asserted that Halliburton executives demanded kickbacks for the awarding of the lucrative fuels contract. Halliburton denied the charges.

At an unrelated Congressional hearing yesterday, the former ambassador to Kuwait, Richard H. Jones, said he had referred those allegations to Pentagon criminal investigators. Mr. Jones now heads the State Department's Iraq office.

The Pentagon's October audit said that, company assertions to the contrary, Halliburton signed its subcontract with Altanmia in early 2003 without competitive bidding. The American military regarded provision of gasoline and cooking fuel to the Iraqi public as an urgent priority at the time, and officials privately prodded Halliburton to act quickly.

Pentagon auditors said they recognized the challenges faced by KBR, but said that the high prices should have been renegotiated in subsequent months rather than paid without question for most of a year.

The auditor's questioning of a $27 million delivery bill for fuel worth $82,000 is misleading, said Ms. Hall, the Halliburton spokeswoman. Insurgent attacks on convoys, a local shortage of trucks and delays by military escorts all worked to raise the costs of fuel delivery, she said.

[Charity Case]

the kid died for oil. thats sad when a leader kills people for oil.

You have to be dumb as a stump to still think this is about oil. ?I don't know about where you live, but since we went to war in Iraq for oil (as you stupidly think) my gas prices have risen quite abit. ?Man I wish we had taken the oil and my gas prices were like $1/gal. ?Don't be a sheep and buy all this propaganda. ?

And for someone to say that Iraq is in a tailspin is another moronic statement. ?Every single first hand account that I have heard indicates what a huge difference we are making over there. ?The first hand accounts are overwhelmingly positive. ?I tend to believe first hand accounts from soldiers and contractors before I believe the liberal media and their agenda. ?And please stop bringing up the death toll. ?It is very, very small for a war fought on foreign soil against inhabitants of that land. ?1,300 people......hell we lost 3 times that in 9/11. ?No one wants to lose men, but you can hardly point to the lose of life in Iraq as a reason to leave. ?Its absurd. ?We are making a positive difference in Iraq and it is killing the Bush bashers to have to admit it.

Guess what....Iraq is producing less oil now than during the Saddam years. ?As I've mentioned in another thread, the reason gas prices are rising is b/c of demand, not supply. ?If the US took all of Iraq's oil for itself and exported it exclusively to America, ?then yes, gas would be about $1/gallon. ?But, oil from Iraq is being sold on the world's market like it was for the last 50 years; thusly not affecting your gas prices.

And proving that the war is not about oil.

[Charity Case]

Those pictures are useless slcpunk.  There is no context to them.  They could easily be pictures of crimes committed against the Iraqis by Saddam or by terrorist or other insurgents.  And we are not targeting these people in case you didn't know.  And if they are pictures of thing we directly caused (i.e. collateral damage), well then you could post pictures of free people going to school, electing officials, having the fear of saddam's band of tyrants raping their women to show the good that is coming out of this.  But, you choose to show how bad the US is all the time....you choose to be as anti-american as the french, why is that?  Why do you constantly paint your own country in the worst light possible?  Why do you not stop to look at once ounce of good?  Is your hatred for Bush so great that you can't see any good being done at all?  Have you not heard soldiers who are back from Iraq go on the TV or the radio talking about the huge difference we are making?  Or are you blocking that out and pointing to pictures with no context.   Chances are those people in those pictures are in that condition because of insurgent attacks.  Where si your outrage for people who would do such a thing?  Why are you not outraged by these type of people?  Hell, its like you sympathize with them.   Seriously sick.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Those pictures are useless slcpunk.  There is no context to them.  They could easily be pictures of crimes committed against the Iraqis by Saddam or by terrorist or other insurgents.  And we are not targeting these people in case you didn't know.  And if they are pictures of thing we directly caused (i.e. collateral damage), well then you could post pictures of free people going to school, electing officials, having the fear of saddam's band of tyrants raping their women to show the good that is coming out of this.  But, you choose to show how bad the US is all the time....you choose to be as anti-american as the french, why is that?  Why do you constantly paint your own country in the worst light possible?  Why do you not stop to look at once ounce of good?  Is your hatred for Bush so great that you can't see any good being done at all?  Have you not heard soldiers who are back from Iraq go on the TV or the radio talking about the huge difference we are making?  Or are you blocking that out and pointing to pictures with no context.   Chances are those people in those pictures are in that condition because of insurgent attacks.  Where si your outrage for people who would do such a thing?  Why are you not outraged by these type of people?  Hell, its like you sympathize with them.   Seriously sick.

same thing, why do you defend your country so much ? and so blindy ?
why aren't we taking the good examples ? exactly , why would we?
200 good  things shouldnt make people forget about the bad thing.

oh yeah, he donated millions to charity, and he helped that lady cross the road, and that and taht ....so let's forget that he killed a person.... nonsense.

and also, please, STOP standing for your country like you ARE country, or if your country IS you. there is no such thing. live. by yourself.
you were just born in the USA, that's it. nothing else.

and don't think that you're a big important part of what the us are. that you represents the force and power of the us.
you are just a consumer. the fact that you buy stuff everyday, that you own 6 tv sets, and that you take you car to do 3 miles ... that's how you help your country.
there is no patriotism involved. this is not at a "moral, and sentimental" level ...
you just buy stuff. and that's why the usa are still powerful.

but in the end, dont think we hate you, or anything. there is a difference between what you do (and even more, what your giovernment does) and what you are.
you are just being used.
g w bush dont care about you.

[Will]

i dont know. they should have thought about that in november.

Who is "they"? Americans?? Talk about jumping to conclusions. Have you not read that not 100% of Americans voted for Bush? Maybe this woman and the demonstrators actually didn't vote for him.

In the end, it's not really relevant (Bush's re-election) here anyway, because her son died before it happened, and the War was declared a long time before he got re-elected. Even Kerry couldn't have gotten out of Iraq easily, it's a mess over there.

[Charity Case]

Those pictures are useless slcpunk.? There is no context to them.? They could easily be pictures of crimes committed against the Iraqis by Saddam or by terrorist or other insurgents.? And we are not targeting these people in case you didn't know.? And if they are pictures of thing we directly caused (i.e. collateral damage), well then you could post pictures of free people going to school, electing officials, having the fear of saddam's band of tyrants raping their women to show the good that is coming out of this.? But, you choose to show how bad the US is all the time....you choose to be as anti-american as the french, why is that?? Why do you constantly paint your own country in the worst light possible?? Why do you not stop to look at once ounce of good?? Is your hatred for Bush so great that you can't see any good being done at all?? Have you not heard soldiers who are back from Iraq go on the TV or the radio talking about the huge difference we are making?? Or are you blocking that out and pointing to pictures with no context.? ?Chances are those people in those pictures are in that condition because of insurgent attacks.? Where si your outrage for people who would do such a thing?? Why are you not outraged by these type of people?? Hell, its like you sympathize with them.? ?Seriously sick.

same thing, why do you defend your country so much ? and so blindy ?
why aren't we taking the good examples ? exactly , why would we?
200 good? things shouldnt make people forget about the bad thing.

oh yeah, he donated millions to charity, and he helped that lady cross the road, and that and taht ....so let's forget that he killed a person.... nonsense.

and also, please, STOP standing for your country like you ARE country, or if your country IS you. there is no such thing. live. by yourself.
you were just born in the USA, that's it. nothing else.

and don't think that you're a big important part of what the us are. that you represents the force and power of the us.
you are just a consumer. the fact that you buy stuff everyday, that you own 6 tv sets, and that you take you car to do 3 miles ... that's how you help your country.
there is no patriotism involved. this is not at a "moral, and sentimental" level ...
you just buy stuff. and that's why the usa are still powerful.

but in the end, dont think we hate you, or anything. there is a difference between what you do (and even more, what your giovernment does) and what you are.
you are just being used.
g w bush dont care about you.

LOL, just realized where you are from.     There is no way that someone from France of all places could possibly understand patriotism.  What the hell would you have in your history to be patriotic about anyway.  See, its about perspective.  You come from a pathetic joke of a country that is only soverign because of the consideration of other stronger countries.  Your country was involved with Saddam up to your eyeballs in the oil for food scam.  Your leaders were upset about the prospect of losing their cash cow.  Your leaders make our leaders look like saints.  It is almost impossible for me to put any real stock in anything the french say, especially on the topic of patriotism.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Those pictures are useless slcpunk.? There is no context to them.? They could easily be pictures of crimes committed against the Iraqis by Saddam or by terrorist or other insurgents.? And we are not targeting these people in case you didn't know.? And if they are pictures of thing we directly caused (i.e. collateral damage), well then you could post pictures of free people going to school, electing officials, having the fear of saddam's band of tyrants raping their women to show the good that is coming out of this.? But, you choose to show how bad the US is all the time....you choose to be as anti-american as the french, why is that?? Why do you constantly paint your own country in the worst light possible?? Why do you not stop to look at once ounce of good?? Is your hatred for Bush so great that you can't see any good being done at all?? Have you not heard soldiers who are back from Iraq go on the TV or the radio talking about the huge difference we are making?? Or are you blocking that out and pointing to pictures with no context.? ?Chances are those people in those pictures are in that condition because of insurgent attacks.? Where si your outrage for people who would do such a thing?? Why are you not outraged by these type of people?? Hell, its like you sympathize with them.? ?Seriously sick.

same thing, why do you defend your country so much ? and so blindy ?
why aren't we taking the good examples ? exactly , why would we?
200 good? things shouldnt make people forget about the bad thing.

oh yeah, he donated millions to charity, and he helped that lady cross the road, and that and taht ....so let's forget that he killed a person.... nonsense.

and also, please, STOP standing for your country like you ARE country, or if your country IS you. there is no such thing. live. by yourself.
you were just born in the USA, that's it. nothing else.

and don't think that you're a big important part of what the us are. that you represents the force and power of the us.
you are just a consumer. the fact that you buy stuff everyday, that you own 6 tv sets, and that you take you car to do 3 miles ... that's how you help your country.
there is no patriotism involved. this is not at a "moral, and sentimental" level ...
you just buy stuff. and that's why the usa are still powerful.

but in the end, dont think we hate you, or anything. there is a difference between what you do (and even more, what your giovernment does) and what you are.
you are just being used.
g w bush dont care about you.

LOL, just realized where you are from.? ?? There is no way that someone from France of all places could possibly understand patriotism.? What the hell would you have in your history to be patriotic about anyway.? See, its about perspective.? You come from a pathetic joke of a country that is only soverign because of the consideration of other stronger countries.? Your country was involved with Saddam up to your eyeballs in the oil for food scam.? Your leaders were upset about the prospect of losing their cash cow.? Your leaders make our leaders look like saints.? It is almost impossible for me to put any real stock in anything the french say, especially on the topic of patriotism.

ahahahahah, thank you mister 400 years of history country

but you're dead right on the patriotic issue. you are patricotic, i am not.
but hey, if being proud about what succesful and pwerful americans might do, and that makes your day, that's fine with me.
now stand up and? " do somethin'? " - as britney would say - cause you're proud and patriotic where you havent done anyhthing.
you're proud bill gates rich
you're proud the us army is strong and have great futuristic weapons
you're proud americans university are good and a lot of great engineers comes from there

well guess what ? you're nothing. so stop being proud of what other people do. that's patritotism you're proud to represent a country when you havent done anything but eating burgers and buying stuff at wall mart .... but i guess that's how it works.



that's what i hate about pride and "loving your country" - it's same in france, people proud that the french team once won the world cup, when they don't even know how yo shoot -
and americans proud of their country's power where they are lameass homefuck who sits in front of the tv and go to wall mart every day.
that's sick.
be proud of somethin YOU do please.


++ : you are like the cheerleaders on the side of a football field, whogiggles and screams when the player makes (?) a touchdown.
that's what patriotic people are: cheerleaders?