The Iraq / war on terror thread

[SLCPUNK]

[BigCombo]

Secondly the cries of abuse from this prison are a joke. I do not care what your culture deems as 'disrespectful'. If the worst thing that happend to these people are that they had pictures taken naked together, got barked at by dogs, and Sadam had photos of him in his tighty whities  published than they get off lightly.

I'm sick of the fact that if they arent treated like they are staying at a Westin Hotel in Mid Town New York then they are being tourtured.

You're missing the point entirely.  The question isn't: "is this torture?"; but rather, is this an acceptable way of treating prisoners?  For the US army to allow this is against everything America stands for.  I'm surprised you actually can condone this. 

[Jessica]

People capable to do this are capable to rape children.

And it's very easy to prove a child was raped, there are areas of his body that are supposed to be left untouched

[jameslofton29]

As I've stated in a different thread, the only thing that speaks to these terrorists is atrocities and mass murder. So lets give it to them in large numbers. More torturing, more death squads, MORE bombings, less humanitarian aid, less rebuilding. Terrorists spit on the Geneva accords, we will do the same. We need to murder these people on a mass scale, including their civilians. If you get the warm fuzzies thinking about mushroom clouds over New York, London, Paris and Moscow, you'll disagree with this. You can't negotiate with evil, you must destroy it.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

As I've stated in a different thread, the only thing that speaks to these terrorists is atrocities and mass murder. So lets give it to them in large numbers. More torturing, more death squads, MORE bombings, less humanitarian aid, less rebuilding. Terrorists spit on the Geneva accords, we will do the same. We need to murder these people on a mass scale, including their civilians. If you get the warm fuzzies thinking about mushroom clouds over New York, London, Paris and Moscow, you'll disagree with this. You can't negotiate with evil, you must destroy it.

then you are evil.
but sometimes you're such a clich? of the "dumbass american" that i wonder if you're not acting and joking. just to provoke.

Gosh, i so wanna call your mom and tell her to slap you in the mouth

[Jessica]

As I've stated in a different thread, the only thing that speaks to these terrorists is atrocities and mass murder. So lets give it to them in large numbers. More torturing, more death squads, MORE bombings, less humanitarian aid, less rebuilding. Terrorists spit on the Geneva accords, we will do the same. We need to murder these people on a mass scale, including their civilians. If you get the warm fuzzies thinking about mushroom clouds over New York, London, Paris and Moscow, you'll disagree with this. You can't negotiate with evil, you must destroy it.

Don't you think this type of reaction over centuries is why they act the way they do towards us now ?

Let me take an example of how long mass memory can go back :

Some families have 800 years old feuds still going on ( do not doubt my word on this), so, if 1 family can still have feuds that old, don't you think some entire country can too ?

[C0ma]

The geneva convention is being ignored, danced around and lip service is given instead.

One by one:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/1-08232004-353302.html

http://www.wggb.com/archive/trial/graner_defense.htm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119400,00.html

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/1-08252004-354953.html

So four Marines being sentenced are what is getting us compared to the Third Reich??

Also the Geneva Convention doesn't apply to non uniformed personel, it only applies to uniformed members of a "recognized" armed force.

[BigCombo]

So four Marines being sentenced are what is getting us compared to the Third Reich??

Also the Geneva Convention doesn't apply to non uniformed personel, it only applies to uniformed members of a "recognized" armed force.

Do you think the US should hold itself to a higher standard and apply the Geneva convenion to its Iraqi prisoners?

[C0ma]

So four Marines being sentenced are what is getting us compared to the Third Reich??

Also the Geneva Convention doesn't apply to non uniformed personel, it only applies to uniformed members of a "recognized" armed force.

Do you think the US should hold itself to a higher standard and apply the Geneva convenion to its Iraqi prisoners?

The few murders are horrible, but for the most part nothing in the line of pictures SLC posted is what I would consider out of the question when dealing with non-uniformed fighters durring wartime. In the off chance that 1 out of 100 of those detainees hold information that will save one Coalition life while in Iraq you have to do everything woth in reason to get that info, and I consider mud, water, nakedness, and a few random punches to be "within reason" in these circumstances. These Detainees arent been treated any worse than alot of the prisoners in our own country. And I don't think that they deserve any more respect than our own prisoners in the US get.

[SLCPUNK]

By Deb Riechmann / Associated Press

CRAWFORD, Texas - The angry mother of a fallen U.S. soldier staged a protest near President Bush's ranch Saturday, demanding an accounting from Bush of how he has conducted the war in Iraq.

Supported by more than 50 demonstrators who chanted, "W. killed her son!" Cindy Sheehan told reporters: "I want to ask the president, 'Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?'" Sheehan, 48, didn't get to see Bush, but did talk about 45 minutes with national security adviser Steve Hadley and deputy White House chief of staff Joe Hagin, who went out to hear her concerns.

Appreciative of their attention, yet undaunted, Sheehan said she planned to continue her roadside vigil, except for a few breaks, until she gets to talk to Bush. Her son, Casey, 24, was killed in Sadr City, Iraq, on April 4, 2004. He was an Army specialist, a Humvee mechanic.

"They (the advisers) said we are in Iraq because they believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, that the world's a better place with Saddam gone and that we're making the world a safer place with what we're doing over there," Sheehan said in a telephone interview after the meeting.

"They were very respectful. They were nice men. I told them Iraq was not a threat to the United States and that now people are dead for nothing. I told them I wouldn't leave until I talked to George Bush."

She said Hagin told her, "I want to assure you that he (Bush) really does care."

"And I said if he does care, why doesn't he come out and talk to me."

Sheehan arrived in Crawford aboard a bus painted red, white and blue and emblazoned with the words, "Impeachment Tour." Sheehan, from Vacaville, Calif., had been attending a Veterans for Peace convention in Dallas.

The bus, trailed by about 20 cars of protesters and reporters, drove at about 15 mph toward Bush's ranch. After several miles, they parked the vehicles and began to march, in stifling heat, farther down the narrow country road.

Flanked by miles of pasture, Sheehan spoke with reporters while clutching two photographs, one of her son in uniform, and the other, a baby picture, when he was seven months old.

She said she decided to come to Crawford a few days ago after Bush said that fallen U.S. troops had died for a noble cause and that the mission must be completed.

"I want to ask the president, `Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?" she said, her voice cracking with emotion. "Last week, you said my son died for a noble cause' and I want to ask him what that noble cause is?"

White House spokesman Trent Duffy said response that Bush also wants the troops to return home safely.

"Many of the hundreds of families the president has met with know their loved one died for a noble cause and that the best way to honor their sacrifice is to complete the mission," Duffy said.

"It is a message the president has heard time and again from those he has met with and comforted. Like all Americans, he wants the troops home as soon as possible."

The group marched about a half-mile before local law enforcement officials stopped them at a bend in the road, still four to five miles from the ranch's entrance. Capt. Kenneth Vanek of the McLennan County Sheriff's Office said the group was stopped because some marchers ignored instructions to walk in the ditch beside the road, not on the road.

"If they won't cooperate, we won't," Vanek said.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

yeah saw that on the french tv.

i dont know. they should have thought about that in november.

[Surfrider]

Supposedly she did meet with the President after her son died.  Now her grief is being used by those who want to use it for political purposes.  I would not be suprised if Moore had a camera rolling as this Mother was crying in agony over her son's death.  I dont blame her, I would be at his door step also.  I am sure most every mother would feel the same way.  As much as the reasoning for this war was flawed, I think its sad that she blames the President for her son's death than the actual terrorists that laid the bomb.

[Rocket_queen125]

To find that Noble cause she should have asked her son! we all accept the responsibility when we swear in, its right there we swear that we will give our lives if called upon, her son knew it when he was sworn in just as i did, some people are just lucky and either don't ever serve there country or just dont get caught in a shitty position.

[C0ma]

I completely agree with this woman and her actions.

I completely disagree with the 50 protestors who are using this womans grief as a political stepping stone. She just lost the light of her life, they just gained a "cause"........

[Prometheus]

US Military Digs
Trenches For Dead
Comrades In Iraq
Dandelion Books.net
8-10-5


TEMPE, AZ -- "Most people simply do not want to believe the US Army would simply bulldoze trenches in the combat areas [of Iraq] and toss in mangled GIs who were in such a shape as to preclude their being shipped back to Baghdad en route to the United States," writes Walter Storch of TBR News [www.tbrnews.org] to a loyal web subscriber.

States Storch: "We have had access to the so-called 'Supplemental Lists' that list the number of the actual dead and injured in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Brian Harring, a computer data specialist obtained and sent TBR News these official Department of Defense U.S. Military casualty reports.

In September, Dandelion Books, www.dandelionbooks.net will publish the full list in a book titled Prelude to Disaster: The Harring Report - Complete Official DoD Iraq & Afghanistan US Military Casualty List.

"Unpleasant as this may seem," states Storch, "there are rolls of pictures taken by several foreign journalists, one of which picture we published... the others are too sickening to put up... that more than support this terrible story.

"We also have located and published, complete with all the official headings, a report from the Pentagon that between March of 2003 when the conflict with Iraq began, to date, that over 25,000 seriously wounded US soldiers were evacuated to the US military facility at Landstuhl, Germany and Walter Reed military hospital in the US."

Says Storch: "I have said that Iraq was going to be Bush's Achilles Heel and it looks as if this will prove to be true. Stories like the ones we, and now others, are following and printing, are impossible to conceal for long and when they become common knowledge, the results will be predictable...and terrible."

The Harring Report is part of Dandelion's America Speaks Out! series that includes investigative reporters and analysts Sherman Skolnick, Norman D. Livergood, Wayne Madsen, John Stanton, John Kaminski, John H. Brand, Jaffer Ali, Aldo D. Pascale, and others.

validity is something that i dont know about.... but if this holds true im sure Izzy can give you the compartive numbers to vietnam

[Prometheus]

the offical death total for iraq is 1761 from march 19 03 - july 16 05 injuries are 13,559

the ghan death 214 injuries 519

so that is a total of 1985 dead and 14078 wounded

total injured and killed 16063

 that is up to july 16th

granted it dont hit the 25000 that teh book talks about but you never know

[journey]

There was a lady on the O'Reilly Factor tonight, who also lost a son in the war. She went to speak to President Bush about the war, and her opposition to it. Only three minutes were allotted for their meeting. She said when she spoke him, he seemed to not have a conscience about the war casualties.

[SLCPUNK]

Amazing really.

With todays technology and world web, it is impossible to conceal the things going on.

[SLCPUNK]

There was a lady on the O'Reilly Factor tonight, who also lost a son in the war. She went to speak to President Bush about the war, and her opposition to it. Only three minutes were allotted for their meeting. She said when she spoke him, he seemed to not have a conscience about the war casualties.

Well, by his own words, he says he sleeps well every night.....

[gilld1]

The Bush Cartel thinks everything in Iraq is peachy and they can't be bothered with details like the # of dead.  The dead don't factor into the "great" plan.