The Iraq / war on terror thread

[Will]

"The people connected with reality" huh? Condescending motherfucker.

"Motherfucker", huh? It's actually "encul? de ta m?re". But you shouldn't talk to me. You know, I'm not from the "right breed". I was born in France. Oh the humanity!

Btw, "condescending"? Give me a freakin break! You are the one who said you shouldn't talk to another board member because you believed he was French because he had some French words in his signature. So don't come to me with your insults and tell me I'm condescending.

Btw, unless you can't read the rules, personal attacks and insults aren't allowed on this board. "The rest of us". Yup. You got your 4 years, let's just see what good that will bring us, to the world and to the US. Because Bush did so good between 2000 and 2004, that was amazing.

[SLCPUNK]

51% of countryside people (+ members from the board ). The rest of the country (the people connected with reality), those who live in big cities and on the coasts voted for Kerry.

Yea and the irony is that those who voted for Kerry are in cities that are more likely to targets for terrorism.

You got NYers who were just attacked a couple years back voting for Kerry not Bush.

That says a lot.

***

But not as much as Dude's sig says about him......

[GnRNightrain]

51% of countryside people (+ members from the board ). The rest of the country (the people connected with reality), those who live in big cities and on the coasts voted for Kerry.

Yea and the irony is that those who voted for Kerry are in cities that are more likely to targets for terrorism.

You got NYers who were just attacked a couple years back voting for Kerry not Bush.

That says a lot.

***

But not as much as Dude's sig says about him......

What do you make of the fact that most of the military voted for Bush by overwhelming numbers?  You act like everyone in the military is being forced to be there and that they think this is the wrong war.  Yet, the people on the lines fighting the war supported Bush.

[Slipdisc]

What do you make of the fact that most of the military voted for Bush by overwhelming numbers?

That people who like to shoot, usually vote for somebody who gives them a target.

Today it's Iraq, tomorrow Iran.... Nowadays war is a business like every other.

-PEACE-

[jgfnsr]

"Motherfucker", huh? It's actually "encul? de ta m?re". But you shouldn't talk to me. You know, I'm not from the "right breed". I was born in France. Oh the humanity!

Btw, "condescending"? Give me a freakin break! You are the one who said you shouldn't talk to another board member because you believed he was French because he had some French words in his signature. So don't come to me with your insults and tell me I'm condescending.

For the record my jabs at the French are, for the most part, said partly tongue-in-cheek.? Partly.? It's always tempting because France is such an easy target.

But I believe your "people connected with reality" comment is 100% sincere.? And that's what pisses me off about people from the left.? Take, once again, the champion of the left Michael Moore as a perfect example.? He doesn't believe people voted differently than he did because they could actually disagree with him.? Ooh no!? It's because they "weren't informed."? "Oh the humanity?"? Try oh the fucking EGO!? And, as guys like you and SLCPUNK demonstrate on a regular basis, that elitist-intellectual attitude tends to span across the entire ranks of the left.? ?

Btw, unless you can't read the rules, personal attacks and insults aren't allowed on this board.

I'm aware of the rules.? But I'm also aware that there tends to be a rather arbitrary attitude on the part of the mods concerning those rules at times, depending on the discussion at hand and who the participants are.? I've been personally insulted before, but it doesn't bother me, so I don't complain.? I'm not out to break the rules but, at the same time, if the others are going to bend them than so will I.

"The rest of us". Yup. You got your 4 years, let's just see what good that will bring us, to the world and to the US. Because Bush did so good between 2000 and 2004, that was amazing.

Well this is where it's apples and oranges for you and me.? And not just regarding the last four years, but the next four as well.? ?With Bush re-elected, his party having the majority in both houses, the U.S. already in Iraq and Afghanistan, Arafat dead and in hell, and the U.N. not being able to do a damn thing one way or the other, we're presented with a unique window of opportunity in my opinion.

An opportunity for what?

*Ding-Dong* "Hello, Iran?? Anybody home?? Comin' in..."

*Knock-knock* "Hey! Syria! Open up...now!"

*Memo to North Korea* "Sit tight and know your role, or you are next."

*Memo to the Palestinians* "Start cleaning up your house now that Ol' Dirty Bastard is gone or Israel and we will."

[jgfnsr]

51% of countryside people (+ members from the board ). The rest of the country (the people connected with reality), those who live in big cities and on the coasts voted for Kerry.

Yea and the irony is that those who voted for Kerry are in cities that are more likely to targets for terrorism.

You got NYers who were just attacked a couple years back voting for Kerry not Bush.

That says a lot.

***

But not as much as Dude's sig says about him......

What?? You don't like SLCPUNK?? To be honest, it was especially for you.?

But hey, what do you expect from the board's resident "illogical phallus?"? Speaking of which, can I get that in writing?? I'd love to have, like, a diploma or letter of recognition, ya know?? Just to hang on my wall and show it off whenever...

[jgfnsr]

A mistake, a tragedy of this nature should have heads rolling.

If you are going to war, you better be DAMN SURE that your intelligence is correct. President said "We are certain they have WMD". Where does the buck stop? It was the Prez who decided to send us over to war, was it not?

If you go in an shaky info, then be prepared to fire everybody responsible for the screwup, including the Prez.

It was his primary reason to go to war, and it was WRONG. There are no weapons...he fucked up!

Capturing Saddam does not outweigh the rest of the bad things that come with it.

You're like a guy who stops reading a book or watching a film before it's over, but still throws his opinion around.?

This whole thing, which you call a "mistake" and a "tragedy," isn't finished pal.?

Remember how you hate those "arm-chair" types that try and call things from their limited point of view?? Well none of us knows what the future holds, so don't start issuing decisions, sentences, and final judgments just yet...

[Will]

For the record my jabs at the French are, for the most part, said partly tongue-in-cheek.  Partly.  It's always tempting because France is such an easy target.

What kind of comment is that? You think America is perfect? Well, think again, because it's far from being perfect. And you criticize a country you've never been to. I lived here for a while, I know what I'm talking about.

But I believe your "people connected with reality" comment is 100% sincere.  And that's what pisses me off about people from the left.

Yes it was sincere. I do believe most people who voted for Bush aren't connected with reality. They think the whole Muslim world is after them (*cough* thank you Fox News *cough*), that they're constantly under attack and that Bush has got to do something about it (ie: wipe out countries and bring on "democracy" there).
Manhattan has voted 85% or something for Kerry, and I do believe those people are connected with reality, since the last time reality hit, they were front row. Nebraska, Montana, Indiana, Texas, etc. Give me a break. When was the last time they were threatened by "muslim terrorists"? Oh, never, that's right.

I'm aware of the rules.  But I'm also aware that there tends to be a rather arbitrary attitude on the part of the mods concerning those rules at times, depending on the discussion at hand and who the participants are.  I've been personally insulted before, but it doesn't bother me, so I don't complain.

Have you been insulted before? Did you think maybe it was because you insulted a fellow board member beforehand? I do agree with the impression mods have an arbitrary attitude. But that's just an impression, because we're not machines and we can't check every single post. If I see an anti-American or an anti-French remark, I will say something about it. If you're thinking otherwise, you don't know me at all. You have the impression we hate America and its people, that's not true. We disagree (strongly) with your government and with the ultra-conservatives.
Btw, there's a "Report to mods" function here, you can use it if you find something insulting or whatever.

*Ding-Dong* "Hello, Iran?  Anybody home?  Comin' in..."

*Knock-knock* "Hey! Syria! Open up...now!"

*Memo to North Korea* "Sit tight and know your role, or you are next."

*Memo to the Palestinians* "Start cleaning up your house now that Ol' Dirty Bastard is gone or Israel and we will."

Wait, what exactly are you trying to say? That you wish America starts more wars with foreign countries within the next four years? More civilians and more GI's dead? Is that what you want for the next four years? Whether it happens or not, I'm fuckin glad Bush will be done forever in four years.

[jgfnsr]

Wait, what exactly are you trying to say? That you wish America starts more wars with foreign countries within the next four years? More civilians and more GI's dead? Is that what you want for the next four years? Whether it happens or not, I'm fuckin glad Bush will be done forever in four years.

Doesn't matter what I want.  Nor, for that matter, even what George W. Bush wants.

War has been coming for a long time now.  Which does mean more dead soldiers and civilians. 

Do you stick your head in the sand ostrich-style and hope it all goes away or face the problem head-on with a motherfucking vengeance?

I'd choose the latter.

[SLCPUNK]

But hey, what do you expect from the board's resident "illogical phallus?"? Speaking of which, can I get that in writing??

haha, you want that in writing?

OK, print this: You are a stupid dick.

There you can hang that on your wall !

 

[SLCPUNK]

51% of countryside people (+ members from the board ). The rest of the country (the people connected with reality), those who live in big cities and on the coasts voted for Kerry.

Yea and the irony is that those who voted for Kerry are in cities that are more likely to targets for terrorism.

You got NYers who were just attacked a couple years back voting for Kerry not Bush.

That says a lot.

***

But not as much as Dude's sig says about him......

What do you make of the fact that most of the military voted for Bush by overwhelming numbers?? You act like everyone in the military is being forced to be there and that they think this is the wrong war.? Yet, the people on the lines fighting the war supported Bush.

I didn't say that people are being "forced". I said, as I always have, that the war is unjust.

Of course the are going to vote for Bush. Most people WANT to believe they are doing the right thing, no matter what it is.

What is "most people"...what percentage? Just curious.

[Will]

Do you stick your head in the sand ostrich-style and hope it all goes away or face the problem head-on with a motherfucking vengeance?

"Motherfuckin vengeance"? What about Saudi Arabia. After all, most of the plane hijackers from 9/11 were from that country. Not Iran, not Irak, not Syria, not North Korea. Saudi Arabia. I don't see anything getting done against them. If you're talking about a vengeance after 9/11 of course, if you're talking about another kind, I would like to hear the reasons against those countries (the vengeance reasons).

I do agree something has to be done against global terrorism, I just don't think Bush way is the right way. Lots of people (mainly those who voted for Bush) think 9/11 was a pattern for a global war against America. I came to believe it was more a "lucky" (lucky for terrorists of course, not for us) attack. Bin Laden himself already said he couldn't believe how many people died. It's not like terrorists decided to hate Western countries yesterday, or 4 years ago. There were already terrorist attacks in the parisian subways 20 years ago. And their hate goes way back before that.

[journey]

Someone told me that going to Iraq was an excuse to keep a close eye on Iran.

I never understood the reasons for the war on Iraq. There didn't seem to be an immediate threat. ?I understand the war on terror, but I haven't seen any terrorists in Iraq. The terrorists were living in America not too long ago. So, what's special about Iraq? They have weapons of mass destruction, well, what country doesn't? I haven't heard any news lately about the war on terror, just the war in Iraq. ?It's sad that so many young men and women soldiers are being killed everyday. ?I love my country and I'm patriotic, but I don't agree with this war, and I'm really sad about the kind of president I have. What are people thinking when they vote for someone so in love with war? ?

[SLCPUNK]

We DO NOT have the resources to go into Iran, and should not do so even if we did.

Not after what we have done in Iraq. Even republicans know this is foolish.

[Slipdisc]

We DO NOT have the resources to go into Iran, and should not do so even if we did.

Exactly, but Bush will be stupid enough to do it anyway. Maybe Iran could turn out to be another successtory for the Bush-camp (although I doubt even that), but the moment he lays a hand on North-Korea it's gonna be over. They are one of the largest military-forces in the world and unlike Bush haven't been spending money they didn't even have to begin with in the last 4 years.

-PEACE-

[Axls Locomotive]

considering the recent comments on this message board about the U.N. and the oil for food scandal, and those who think that corruption doesnt exist in the current USA government...here is an article that might interest you

-------------

WASHINGTON - U.S. government mismanagement of assets in
Iraq, from the lack of proper documentation on nearly $100 million in cash to millions of dollars worth of unaccounted-for equipment, are setting back efforts to fight corruption in the fledgling democracy, auditors and critics say.
ADVERTISEMENT

Iraq became awash in billions of dollars in cash after the U.S. invasion two years ago, often with few or no controls over how that money was spent and accounted for. From the $8.8 billion provided to Iraq's interim government to millions provided to U.S. contractors, investigations have detailed a system ripe for abuse.

The latest indication of that came Wednesday when investigators released a report saying $96.6 million in cash could not be properly accounted for. The total included more than $7 million that was simply gone, according to the report from the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction.

It said $89.4 million in cash payments in south-central Iraq were made without the necessary supporting documentation, the investigation found. Indications of fraud and other wrongdoing are the subject of separate, continuing probes.

Wednesday's report accused civilian contract managers of "simply washing accounts" to try to make the books balance. Staffing shortages and the quick turnover of those responsible for the cash contributed to the problems, the report said, echoing the findings in previous reports.

Examples of possible misspending in Iraq revealed in recent months include:

_ "Less than adequate controls" over $8.8 billion given to the interim Iraqi government between the March 2003 invasion and the hand over of power to Iraqis on June 28, 2004.

_ Projected totals of nearly $20 million in missing or unaccounted-for equipment in Baghdad and Kuwait.

_ A lack of proper rules governing some $600 million in cash handed out by U.S. authorities.

Critics say the freewheeling postwar spending in Iraq is, at best, providing a poor example for the new Iraqi government to follow.

....

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050505/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/iraq_money_8

[GnRNightrain]

It seems like most of the spending problems and tracing of assets was done by the Iraqis, and that we are not keeping tight enough control on making sure what they spend it on and that it is being used properly.  Either way, it doesnt surprise me.  Our government is so inefficient in the way it spends money.  Im sure lots of money is getting wasted by a lack of control over the spending. 

However, comparing this to oil for foods is completely ridiculous, and a horrible attempt at justifying the UN's failure by pointing to failures somewhere else.

Besides, there is a difference with mismanaging money, and deliberately undercutting UN laws, designed to punish an evil dictator, in order to make money.  Tell me the comparison again other than the fact that they both involved money and Iraq?  The article you posted doesnt seem like corruption, but pure negligence and idiotic government accounting.

[SLCPUNK]

Always pointing the finger out....

America has people under the gun for the O4F scandal as well, including an oil tycoon from (imagine this...) Texas.

[Prometheus]

hell think how much this cost .... well spent money could have been put towards pverty ... in the US... and the rest of the world........ wow

[August 18th]

hell think how much this cost .... well spent money could have been put towards pverty ... in the US... and the rest of the world........ wow

but they wouldn't, so it doesn't really matter. still, these numbers are sickening, they really are.