The Iraq / war on terror thread

[SLCPUNK]

Kerry mentions his senate record all the time. It's not too shabby. More than Bush did. In fact Bush was a big ole failure at everything he touched prior to becoming the prez.....

All this has been listed before but you ignore the facts posted as usual. IE You throw out "kerry's record" and I throw out the real record. You then ignore and go onto something else. Then bring it back up to another poster......weak dude weak.

[LeftToDecay]

From CNN.com


Military investigates shooting of wounded insurgent
Commanders fear tape will discourage surrendering


FALLUJA, Iraq (CNN) -- The U.S. military is investigating whether a Marine shot dead an unarmed, wounded insurgent during the battle for Falluja in an incident captured on videotape by a pool reporter.

The man was shot in the head at close range Saturday by a Marine who found him among a group of wounded men. The wounded men were found in a mosque that Marines said had been the source of small-arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire the previous day.

The Marine in the videotape has been removed from his unit and taken to the headquarters of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, and the Navy's Criminal Investigative Service said it plans to question one of the other wounded Iraqis as part of the probe, according to the pool reporter embedded with the unit.

"Let me make it perfectly clear: We follow the law of armed conflict and we hold ourselves to high standard of accountability," Marine Lt. Gen. John F. Sattler said Tuesday. "The facts of this case will be thoroughly pursued to make an informed decision and to protect rights of all persons involved."

The investigation will determine whether the Marine violated any rules or should be charged with any crime. Lt. Col. Bob Miller, a staff judge advocate for the 1st Marine Division, said wounded insurgents who pose no threat generally "would not be considered hostile."

The Marine seen shooting the man was part of a squad from the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, which had been part of intense house-to-house fighting in southern Falluja.

U.S. rules of engagement prohibit American troops from killing any prisoner who does not pose a threat, and commanders say they are worried the video might encourage more insurgents to fight to the death rather than surrender.

The military asked that networks obscure the names and recognizable faces of the Marines inside the mosque when they broadcast video of the incident. The request came from Marine judge advocate Col. John Weil to NBC News, which videotaped the killing, and was based on privacy concerns.

Friday, the Marines were fired upon by snipers and insurgents armed with rocket-propelled grenades from a mosque and an adjacent building. The Marines returned fire with tank shells and machine guns.

They eventually stormed the mosque, killing 10 insurgents and wounding five others, and showing off a cache of rifles and grenades for journalists.

The Marines told the pool reporter that the wounded men would be left behind for others to pick up and move to the rear for treatment. But Saturday, another squad of Marines found that the mosque had been reoccupied by insurgents and attacked it again, only to find the same wounded men inside.

Four of the men appeared to have been shot again in Saturday's fighting, and one of them appeared to be dead, according to the pool report. In the video, a Marine was seen noticing that one of the men appeared to be breathing.

A Marine approached one of the men in the mosque saying, "He's [expletive] faking he's dead. He's faking he's [expletive] dead."

The Marine raised his rifle and fired into the apparently wounded man's head, at which point a companion said, "Well, he's dead now."

When told by the pool reporter that the men were among those wounded in Friday's firefight, the Marine who fired the shot said, "I didn't know, sir. I didn't know."

The Marines said they are investigating why the wounded Iraqis were left behind for 24 hours and whether the man was killed illegally. Navy investigators said they believe they have located the fifth Iraqi -- the only one not wounded a second time -- who said he wanted to provide information about the killing.

Before the Marines entered the mosque Saturday, a lieutenant from one of two squads involved in the fighting was told that there were people inside.

"Did you shoot them?" he asked.

"Roger that, sir," one of the men replied.

"Were they armed?" the lieutenant asked. The other Marine shrugged.

The Marine who shot the Iraqi man had reportedly been returned to duty after suffering a minor facial wound Friday.

About a block away, a Marine was killed and five others wounded by a booby-trapped body they found in a house after a shootout with insurgents.

The human rights organization Amnesty International raised concerns about violations of the rules of war last week, after a British news program broadcast video of what it said was the killing of another wounded insurgent by U.S. troops.

Amnesty also noted reports that insurgents have used mosques as fighting positions, and in one incident appear to have used a white flag to lure Marines into an ambush.

"All violations of international humanitarian law and human rights law must be investigated and those responsible for unlawful attacks, including deliberate targeting of civilians, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks, and the killing of injured persons must be brought to justice," the group said in a statement issued Thursday.

[Rain]

I've just seen that on TV ... and it was kinda frightening ... Not only the images but the sound and what the soldier said before shooting the wounded iraqi ... 

[GnRNightrain]

I find it pathetic that you dont post until you can degrade the US, mock our efforts, or spit on a marine. 


We are doing the right thing and court marshalling him to find out what actually happened.  I have heard tons of stories of insurgents acting like they are wounded when they arent, act like they are surrendering when they are not, etc.  If this guy just shot the guy cold blooded knowing that he was wounded then he will get his.

I just find it interesting the title you put on the thread.  I know you think we are all evil anyway.

[Rain]

I find it pathetic that you dont post until you can degrade the US, mock our efforts, or spit on a marine.?


We are doing the right thing and court marshalling him to find out what actually happened.? I have heard tons of stories of insurgents acting like they are wounded when they arent, act like they are surrendering when they are not, etc.? If this guy just shot the guy cold blooded knowing that he was wounded then he will get his.

I just find it interesting the title you put on the thread.? I know you think we are all evil anyway.

Come on ... you cannot defend this !!!! 


Have you seen it on TV yet ? there was blood all over the place... 
I don't think the post was to spit on the US army ... It happened, it's on tape for godsake's !

[LeftToDecay]

I find it pathetic that you dont post until you can degrade the US, mock our efforts, or spit on a marine.?


We are doing the right thing and court marshalling him to find out what actually happened.? I have heard tons of stories of insurgents acting like they are wounded when they arent, act like they are surrendering when they are not, etc.? If this guy just shot the guy cold blooded knowing that he was wounded then he will get his.

I just find it interesting the title you put on the thread.? I know you think we are all evil anyway.

Such an angsty reply honey.

I find it somewhat disturbing if you feel that a marine who kills a wounded man cold blooded while pretty much lookinbg into his eyes doesn't deserve all ther spit he can get.
Obviously I greately despise your current goverment and feel very strongly that in the long run Operation Iragi Liberty means a horde of bad things to Middle east, U.S and world...
....but accusing me of uh..hating U.S and only posting when trying to degrade US in general?? Tsk tsk.What the hell was that?
The day I'm able to hate an entire country in collective manner will require some intense mirror-staring.

A soldier killing a wounded enemy in combat isn't such huge potatoes in itself I'm certain U.S soldiers have executed countless would-be-POWs in the same manner, just like soldiers of pretty much every country in every similiar conflict have done and will do. People who get the status of POW in a heated combat are pretty lucky to begin with.

This thread exists because it's headlining news all over the world just like similiar documented bits of cruelty from the heat of media wars often are and uhhh..people occasionally have a habit of? discussing about headlining news.

Speaking of Media war, good folks at al-jazeera and not to mention the more radical muslim news channels will masturbate all over that footage.It's a very strong clip and certainly pushes few more kids in the general direction of AK 47 and carbomb-building-for-dummies - instructions.

A title? of a message/essay/etc is a good one when it has info value and provokes a reaction and thus, discussion.
Apparently i for once made a decent title? then.

[MCT]

I find it pathetic that you dont post until you can degrade the US, mock our efforts, or spit on a marine.?

How about degrading the US administration, concurrently mocking the people (they chose the admin), and spitting on the whole works?

Q - How many members of the Bush Administration are needed to change a light bulb?

A - It takes 10:

1. One to deny that a light bulb needs to be changed.
2. One to attack the patriotism of anyone who says the light bulb needs to be changed.
3. One to blame Clinton for burning out the light bulb.
4. One to tell the nations of the world that they are either "for" changing the light bulb or "for" darkness.
5. One to give a billion dollar no-bid contract to Halliburton for the new light bulb.
6. One to arrange a photograph of Bush, dressed as a janitor, standing on a step ladder under the banner: "Light bulb Change Accomplished".
7. One administration insider to resign and write a book documenting in detail how Bush was literally in the dark.
8. One to viciously smear #7.
9. One surrogate to campaign on TV and at rallies on how George Bush has had a strong light-bulb-changing policy all along.
10. And finally, one to confuse Americans about the difference between screwing a light bulb and screwing the country.

Yeah, I'm BOARD................

...bored...

[Charity Case]

One less terrorist that might one day kill an American soldier or be involved in a plot to kill thousands of Americans.? The world has gone bananas when we actually start caring about the death of a terrorists.

[LeftToDecay]

Do you view every Iraqi fighting against coalition troops inside Iraq  a terrorist?

[Will]

I see Tyrod's edited the end of the post where he was talking about our "bleeding hearts" or whatever. From his comments, I think the answer to your question is yes.

[Oddy]

I find it pathetic that you dont post until you can degrade the US, mock our efforts, or spit on a marine. 

How about degrading the US administration, concurrently mocking the people (they chose the admin), and spitting on the whole works?

Q - How many members of the Bush Administration are needed to change a light bulb?

A - It takes 10:

1. One to deny that a light bulb needs to be changed.
2. One to attack the patriotism of anyone who says the light bulb needs to be changed.
3. One to blame Clinton for burning out the light bulb.
4. One to tell the nations of the world that they are either "for" changing the light bulb or "for" darkness.
5. One to give a billion dollar no-bid contract to Halliburton for the new light bulb.
6. One to arrange a photograph of Bush, dressed as a janitor, standing on a step ladder under the banner: "Light bulb Change Accomplished".
7. One administration insider to resign and write a book documenting in detail how Bush was literally in the dark.
8. One to viciously smear #7.
9. One surrogate to campaign on TV and at rallies on how George Bush has had a strong light-bulb-changing policy all along.
10. And finally, one to confuse Americans about the difference between screwing a light bulb and screwing the country.

Yeah, I'm BOARD................

...bored...

hahahha i found that quite amusing. was that your own material?

and it goes,

i'm bored!

i'm chairman............of the boaaaaaard!

know your iggy pop!

[Charity Case]

Do you view every Iraqi fighting against coalition troops inside Iraq? a terrorist?

That's a tough call.  Iknow they aren't all terrorists by definition, but these are the same gusy who are targeting civilians and driving cars with explosives in them into crowded areas in hopes of killing a few Americans even at the cost of Iraqi life.  My bet is that if he was in a Mosque from which small arms gun fire and grenade were being launched the previous day, that yes indeed he was a terrorist.

And Will, no need to be so mean to me.  I realized that my post might offend some liberals so being a good boy I edited it out.    See I can be nice too.     And who is this TyRod guy?  Sounds like I would like a fella like that.     I know you don't agree with me politically, but we can still get along.

[MCT]

was that your own material?

No.

And as a note for future reference, if anything is mine, I'll credit myself.......

and it goes,

i'm bored!

i'm chairman............of the boaaaaaard!

know your iggy pop!

Sorry, that's just too exuberant for me. I guess I just don't have same lust for life that you do........................

I see Tyrod's edited the end of the post where he was talking about our "bleeding hearts" or whatever. From his comments, I think the answer to your question is yes.

Let me guess..........same IP?

[Will]

And Will, no need to be so mean to me. I realized that my post might offend some liberals so being a good boy I edited it out. See I can be nice too. And who is this TyRod guy? Sounds like I would like a fella like that. I know you don't agree with me politically, but we can still get along.

I'm being "mean" to you because I didn't like the remarks you posted and for which you got banned. Apparently you have the right to come back so be it, but that doesn't change what you said before.
I don't think we can get along as long as your views will be so America-centered. I lived and worked in Europe, and I lived and worked in the US. I have really different views about the world, apparently incompatible with yours. You apparently have a problem with muslims and middle-easterners (sp.?), I personally have a problem with narrow-minded, intolerant and extremist people. Some of them happen to be muslim, but I also found lots of this kind of people in "the West".

[jarmo]

I'm being "mean" to you because I didn't like the remarks you posted and for which you got banned. Apparently you have the right to come back so be it, but that doesn't change what you said before.

There's no right. He just doesn't understand what banned means.

With posts like that, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets banned again and again and......


/jarmo

[Charity Case]

Hey, I have toned down my approach.  I haven't utter anything that could be considered racist under this name.  jarmo, I know you just said that "With posts like that, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets banned again and again and......".  What post are you referring to?  I indicated that one less terrorist in the world is ok by me.  That is an opinion void of any racists remarks.  I answered a question about whether I though all people fighting against the US in Iraq were terrorists, in which I utter not a single remark that could be considered racist.  Which post are you talking about? 

I have used this name for a few weeks and haven't brought attention to it or indicated in any post that I was TyRod.  It was Will and slcpunk that brought it up.  I would otherwise have been perfectly content to continue to post under this name and never mention my old name.  I am not sure why my opinion is consider wrong while others are considered right on this board.   

[SLCPUNK]

I find it pathetic that you dont post until you can degrade the US, mock our efforts, or spit on a marine.?

How?

[SLCPUNK]

One less terrorist that might one day kill an American soldier or be involved in a plot to kill thousands of Americans.? The world has gone bananas when we actually start caring about the death of a terrorists.

You say we are leaders of the world and liberators.

If that is true then we don't hold our standards that low.

Honor is honor.

Period.

[Charity Case]

One less terrorist that might one day kill an American soldier or be involved in a plot to kill thousands of Americans.? The world has gone bananas when we actually start caring about the death of a terrorists.

You say we are leaders of the world and liberators.

If that is true then we don't hold our standards that low.

Honor is honor.

Period.

A very easy thing to say sitting in the safety of the US.  When you are fighting on the front line during wartime, I bet that idealogical crap gets thrown out the window more times than we realize.  One less terrorist is still ONE LESS TERRORISTS.  Which can only be considered a good thing. 

[jgfnsr]

Wed Nov 17,10:36 AM ET? ?Top Stories - Reuters
 

By Mussab al-Khairalla

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqis reacted with anger and disbelief Wednesday to news that British-Iraqi aid worker Margaret Hassan, who worked in Iraq (news - web sites) for decades before being kidnapped a month ago, had been killed by her captors.

Irish-born Hassan, 59, moved to Iraq more than 30 years ago after marrying an Iraqi engineer. She learned Arabic and became a pillar of support in local communities, often helping the needy in the face of opposition during Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime.

Those who knew her, worked with her or were helped by her described Hassan as a formidable woman who went about her work with determination. She helped the disabled, the orphaned and those without water or sanitation calmly and efficiently.

One of the hospitals she regularly supported was a spinal cord clinic in Baghdad run by Qayder al-Chalabi, who said her loss was a huge blow to all Iraqis.

The killers "made a very big mistake. This was the wrong person," he told Reuters Wednesday.

"I cannot imagine that these things could happen to her because she was a very humanitarian person. She felt our suffering, she understood the suffering of the Iraqi people.

"We need to admire and remember her. We must have a ceremony every year to remember her," he said, adding that he believed a statue should be erected in her honor.

Hassan was kidnapped Oct. 19 as she was being driven to work in Baghdad, where she was the director of the local operation of aid organization Care International.

A video released to Arabic news channel Al Jazeera showed a hooded figure shooting a blindfolded woman in the head.

Hassan's husband and British foreign office officials have said they believe the video tape is "probably genuine" and her family has said they believe Margaret Hassan is dead.
 
Militant Islamists have waged a campaign of kidnappings and killings to try to force U.S.-led troops and foreigners to leave Iraq. More than 120 foreigners have been kidnapped in Iraq since April and more than three dozen have been killed.

If confirmed, Hassan would be the first foreign woman killed.

Several foreigners are still believed to be held, including at least one other woman, Polish-Iraqi Teresa Borcz Khalifa. Others include two American men and two French journalists.

"These people are savage beasts," said a man working close to the now shuttered Care offices in Baghdad. He would not give his name for fear of reprisals.

"The whole idea of kidnapping is completely wrong. If people want to resist the occupation they can fight American troops, not kill Iraqis or innocent foreigners," he said.

A campaign to gather information on Hassan's whereabouts was recently launched in Baghdad, with a picture of Hassan holding a sick Iraqi child posted on billboards around the city.

The billboards read: "Margaret Hassan is truly a daughter of Iraq ... She is against the occupation."

"She came to help us and give us prosperity," said Hashim Hassan, a 41-year-old security guard at a surgery. "These terrorists are outsiders ruining Iraq's image. Iraqis would not destroy their own country."

Unemployed Yusuf Ali, 35, said attacking or kidnapping aid workers was a development that would only harm the nation.

"The enemies of Iraq are attacking power stations, oil pipelines and kidnapping foreigners and aid workers at a time when we need them most. Aid workers would be flowing into Falluja right now if they didn't fear decapitation," he said.


So let me get this straight.?

We get a whole thread by LeftToDecay about an enemy insurgent being shot by a Marine but this doesn't even get mentioned?  Nevermind the fact that an "insurgent" is a nice name for enemy, and even when they appear down and out, that's not necessarily the case.  There often booby-trapped, etc. 

But like Al-Jazeera, that doesn't matter to some people here.

Where's the bleeding-heart, "they hate us because we killed their kids" crowd huh? 

SLCPUNK?  Come out, come out wherever you are!

Tell me oh Wise One.  Why did she die?  She spent decades in Iraq helping the people and was against the war.  And she still ended up dead. 

Oh, but wait.  We just need to realize "it's our fault and apologize," right?