The Iraq / war on terror thread

[SLCPUNK]

You guys are just like the president....no accountability.

Point the finger elsewhere and change the argument.

Avoid the subject at all costs.

Provide opinion pieces as facts.

etc etc....

[loretian]

You guys are just like the president....no accountability.

Point the finger elsewhere and change the argument.

Avoid the subject at all costs.

Provide opinion pieces as facts.

etc etc....

Let's see some facts to back up your opinion.   

I think I did very thorough and honest job pointing the facts out.  If you're gonna rip on me, at least point out the facts to prove it.

[youngerformofaxl]

You guys are just like the president....no accountability.

Point the finger elsewhere and change the argument.

Avoid the subject at all costs.

Provide opinion pieces as facts.

etc etc....

Let's see some facts to back up your opinion.? ?

I think I did very thorough and honest job pointing the facts out.? If you're gonna rip on me, at least point out the facts to prove it.

No, SLCPunk is right, you lack accountability just like the president.

Our president George W. Bush has allowed Iraq to turn into a haven for terrorists and has also lost tons of explosives. This says a lot that this current administration invasion of Iraq.

The problem with you people is that you support the president to the bitter end no matter what happens. If you found out Bush was murderer would you? Oh wait, he already he is, so nevermind...

[GnRNightrain]

You guys are just like the president....no accountability.

Point the finger elsewhere and change the argument.

Avoid the subject at all costs.

Provide opinion pieces as facts.

etc etc....

Let's see some facts to back up your opinion.? ?

I think I did very thorough and honest job pointing the facts out.? If you're gonna rip on me, at least point out the facts to prove it.

No, SLCPunk is right, you lack accountability just like the president.

Our president George W. Bush has allowed Iraq to turn into a haven for terrorists and has also lost tons of explosives. This says a lot that this current administration invasion of Iraq.

The problem with you people is that you support the president to the bitter end no matter what happens. If you found out Bush was murderer would you? Oh wait, he already he is, so nevermind...

Running acid?  What have you written that is worth responding to?  I wrote a post giving my opinion on your BS.  If you look through these threads you can probably find a post of mine on everything from Gay Marriage, to Iraq, to the Florida Election.  You are the one that said you were quitting the thread, not me.

[youngerformofaxl]

You guys are just like the president....no accountability.

Point the finger elsewhere and change the argument.

Avoid the subject at all costs.

Provide opinion pieces as facts.

etc etc....

Let's see some facts to back up your opinion.? ?

I think I did very thorough and honest job pointing the facts out.? If you're gonna rip on me, at least point out the facts to prove it.

No, SLCPunk is right, you lack accountability just like the president.

Our president George W. Bush has allowed Iraq to turn into a haven for terrorists and has also lost tons of explosives. This says a lot that this current administration invasion of Iraq.

The problem with you people is that you support the president to the bitter end no matter what happens. If you found out Bush was murderer would you? Oh wait, he already he is, so nevermind...

Running acid?? What have you written that is worth responding to?? I wrote a post giving my opinion on your BS.? If you look through these threads you can probably find a post of mine on everything from Gay Marriage, to Iraq, to the Florida Election.? You are the one that said you were quitting the thread, not me.

If my posts aren't worth the energy it takes to respond, then why do you, huh?

Face it! The war in Iraq is a failure, it's turning out to be another Vietnam!

No civilized, intelligent person would just completely ignore the points of a debate like that and then continue posting as if he actually did respond. And, here I was thinking, you were actually a better debater than Ty'rod!

[youngerformofaxl]

You guys are just like the president....no accountability.

Point the finger elsewhere and change the argument.

Avoid the subject at all costs.

Provide opinion pieces as facts.

etc etc....

Let's see some facts to back up your opinion.? ?

I think I did very thorough and honest job pointing the facts out.? If you're gonna rip on me, at least point out the facts to prove it.

No, SLCPunk is right, you lack accountability just like the president.

Our president George W. Bush has allowed Iraq to turn into a haven for terrorists and has also lost tons of explosives. This says a lot that this current administration invasion of Iraq.

The problem with you people is that you support the president to the bitter end no matter what happens. If you found out Bush was murderer would you? Oh wait, he already he is, so nevermind...

Running acid?? What have you written that is worth responding to?? I wrote a post giving my opinion on your BS.? If you look through these threads you can probably find a post of mine on everything from Gay Marriage, to Iraq, to the Florida Election.? You are the one that said you were quitting the thread, not me.

You wanted a debate, you got one and you quit. I will not look through all these threads to hear your points, it's not worth my time. You still have not responded to my post in the U.S. Election Thread since I posted it 5 days ago. It's time to get the ball moving, you are the one that's running, you don't just come back 5 days later talking about how much of a waste of time it is to read my posts.

Once again, you are one of the stupidest posters on here!

[SLCPUNK]

You guys are just like the president....no accountability.

Point the finger elsewhere and change the argument.

Avoid the subject at all costs.

Provide opinion pieces as facts.

etc etc....

Let's see some facts to back up your opinion.   

I think I did very thorough and honest job pointing the facts out.  If you're gonna rip on me, at least point out the facts to prove it.

The proof is right there in your posts. You change the subject to take away the point of the article.

The president/VP both changed subjects during the debates and didn't answer questions.

Just like you.

Want facts? Read the article and then read what you wrote.

[SLCPUNK]

Bush is now saying. "well, we did not have enough troops to guard them all" after spending the entire year telling the American public that troops there was always sufficient.

So the question is, how much double talkin' jive can the Bush supporters back up?

[gnrvrrule]

From Nypost.com...

THE MYTH OF THE 'MISSING EXPLOSIVES': A SHAMELESS LIE

BY RALPH PETERS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

 
 
October 28, 2004 -- SHOULD the United Na tions decide who be comes our president? Sen. John Kerry wouldn't mind. He's shamelessly promoting the lies that the U.N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency is telling about Iraq.
A devious IAEA report suggests that 400 tons of explosives were spirited away by our enemies under the noses of our Keystone-Cops troops after the fall of Baghdad. The document just happened to be released in the closing days of our presidential election. Purely a coincidence, of course. Brought to you by those selfless U.N. bureaucrats who failed in Iraq and are now failing in Iran.

Since Kerry's willing to blame our troops for a scandal invented by America-haters, let's look at the story the military way, by the numbers.

One: The IAEA claims its inspectors visited the ammo dump at Al-Qaqaa on March 9, 2003, and found the agency's seals intact on bunkers containing sensitive munitions. Unverifiable, but let's assume that much is true.

Two: Faced with an impending invasion, Saddam's forces did what any military would do. They began dispersing ammunition stocks from every storage site that might be a Coalition bombing target. If the Iraqis valued it, they tried to move it. Before the war.

Three: Members of our 3rd Infantry Division ? the heroes who led the march to Baghdad ? reached the site in question in early April. Despite the pressures of combat, they combed the dump. Nothing was found. Al-Qaqaa was a vast junkyard.

Four: Our 101st Airborne Division assumed responsibility for the sector as the 3ID closed on Baghdad. None of the Screaming Eagles found any IAEA markers ? even one would have been a red flag to be reported immediately.

Five: At the end of May, military teams searching for key Iraqi weapons scoured Al-Qaqaa. They found plenty of odds and ends ? the detritus of war ? but no IAEA seals. And no major stockpiles.

Six: Now, just before Election Day, the IAEA, a discredited organization embarrassed by the Bush administration's decision to call it on the carpet, suddenly realizes that 400 tons of phantom explosives went missing from the dump.

Seven: Even if repeated inspections by U.S. troops had somehow missed this deadly elephant on the front porch, and even if the otherwise-incompetent Iraqis had been so skilled and organized they were able to sneak into Al-Qaqaa and load up 400 tons of Saddam's love-powder, it would have taken a Teamsters' convention to get the job done.

 

Eight: If the Iraqis had used military transport vehicles of five-ton capacity, it would have required 80 trucks for one big lift, or, say, 20 trucks each making four trips. They would have needed special trolleys, forklifts, handling experts and skilled drivers (explosives aren't groceries). This operation could not have happened either during or after the war, while the Al-Qaqaa area was flooded with U.S. troops.

Nine: We owned the skies. And when you own the skies, you own the roads. We were watching for any sign of organized movement. A gaggle of non-Coalition vehicles driving in and out of an ammo dump would have attracted the attention of our surveillance systems immediately.

Ten: And you don't just drive high explosives cross-country, unless you want to hear a very loud bang. Besides, the Iraqis would have needed to hide those 400 tons of explosives somewhere else. Unless the uploaded trucks are still driving around Iraq.

Eleven: Even if the IAEA told the truth and the Iraqis were stealth-logistics geniuses who emptied the site's ammo bunkers under our noses, the entire issue misses a greater point: 400 tons of explosives amounted to a miniscule fraction of the stocks Saddam had built up. Coalition demolition experts spent months destroying more than 400,000 tons of Iraqi war-making materiel.

Our soldiers eliminated more than a thousand tons of packaged death for every ton the United Nations claims they missed. Does that sound like incompetence? Why hasn't our success been mentioned? Can't our troops get credit for anything?

Twelve: The bottom line is that, if the explosives were ever there, the Iraqis moved them before our troops arrived. There is no other plausible scenario.

Sen. Kerry knows this is a bogus issue. And he doesn't care. He's willing to accuse our troops of negligence and incompetence to further his political career. Of course, he did that once before.

Ralph Peters is the author of "Beyond Baghdad: Postmodern War and Peace."

YES, the NY Post is a paper that tends to favor the right, but these points that this guy made are very reasonable.  This whole scenario is a U.N. effort to elect John Kerry.

[youngerformofaxl]

This is a story from the GOP that is trying to cover up for their mistakes in Iraq. Like that CNN Analyst guy said, "George W. Bush is the worst president we've ever had."

Kerry has more expirence, Kerry deserves to win this election. Being governor of Texas does not count as good expirence.

[GnRNightrain]

This is a story from the GOP that is trying to cover up for their mistakes in Iraq. Like that CNN Analyst guy said, "George W. Bush is the worst president we've ever had."

Kerry has more expirence, Kerry deserves to win this election. Being governor of Texas does not count as good expirence.

If Kerry has so much experience, how come he never mentions his senate record at all?

[youngerformofaxl]

This is a story from the GOP that is trying to cover up for their mistakes in Iraq. Like that CNN Analyst guy said, "George W. Bush is the worst president we've ever had."

Kerry has more expirence, Kerry deserves to win this election. Being governor of Texas does not count as good expirence.

If Kerry has so much experience, how come he never mentions his senate record at all?

Vietnam war veteran! 20 years in the senate!

Have you ever seen Kerry campaign? How do you know if he mentions his Senate record or not? What kerry says in his speeches is of his jurisdiction and not yours or mine.

[Will]

If Kerry has so much experience, how come he never mentions his senate record at all?

Do you have any other argument besides the famous "senate record"? And I mean something you personally believe and came up with, not something you read on the drudge, fox news, the american spectator, etc. I'm just curious.

[GnRNightrain]

If Kerry has so much experience, how come he never mentions his senate record at all?

Do you have any other argument besides the famous "senate record"? And I mean something you personally believe and came up with, not something you read on the drudge, fox news, the american spectator, etc. I'm just curious.

Come on Will, you know me better than that.  I dont just post talking points.  This is true, and something I still havent heard an answer to.

[GnRNightrain]

This is a story from the GOP that is trying to cover up for their mistakes in Iraq. Like that CNN Analyst guy said, "George W. Bush is the worst president we've ever had."

Kerry has more expirence, Kerry deserves to win this election. Being governor of Texas does not count as good expirence.

If Kerry has so much experience, how come he never mentions his senate record at all?

Vietnam war veteran! 20 years in the senate!

Have you ever seen Kerry campaign? How do you know if he mentions his Senate record or not? What kerry says in his speeches is of his jurisdiction and not yours or mine.

Ive heard many of his speeches.  He is welcome to do what ever he wants.  But you would think that to be President you would have to have a successful political career before you reach office.  Clinton talked and talked about his success in Arkansas.  Im yet to hear Kerry talk about his success in the Senate.

The fact is that this election is a referendum on Bush.  Its funny to watch you guys talk as if Kerry is this great leader to lead the world.  You really just hate Bush and see this as the only alternative.

[Will]

Come on Will, you know me better than that.  I dont just post talking points.  This is true, and something I still havent heard an answer to.

I posted this because that's always what I read here and on the conservative media. I was wondering if there was any argument besides the notorious "look at his senate record!".

I personally don't think Kerry would be like the best president ever, but I really think he will represent America A LOT better than Bush and maybe he'll try to lead the world along with other countries, not just by himself.

[youngerformofaxl]

This is a story from the GOP that is trying to cover up for their mistakes in Iraq. Like that CNN Analyst guy said, "George W. Bush is the worst president we've ever had."

Kerry has more expirence, Kerry deserves to win this election. Being governor of Texas does not count as good expirence.

If Kerry has so much experience, how come he never mentions his senate record at all?

Vietnam war veteran! 20 years in the senate!

Have you ever seen Kerry campaign? How do you know if he mentions his Senate record or not? What kerry says in his speeches is of his jurisdiction and not yours or mine.

But you would think that to be President you would have to have a successful political career before you reach office.?

Were you talking about Kerry or our current president?

[Will]

Interesting...

Video Suggests Explosives Disappeared After U.S. Took Control

Evidence Indicates U.S. Military Opened Al-Qaqaa Bunkers, Left Them Unguarded

Oct. 28, 2004 ? The strongest evidence to date indicates that conventional explosives missing from Iraq's Al-Qaqaa installation disappeared after the United States had taken control of Iraq.

Barrels inside the Al-Qaqaa facility appear on videotape shot by ABC television affiliate KSTP of St. Paul, Minn., which had a crew embedded with the 101st Airborne Division when it passed through Al-Qaqaa on April 18, 2003 ? nine days after Baghdad fell.

TV Crew Photographed Explosives Cache at Al-Qaqaa
Discrepancy Found in Explosives Amounts

Experts who have studied the images say the barrels on the tape contain the high explosive HMX, and the universal markings on the barrels are clear that these are highly dangerous explosives.

"I talked to a former inspector who's a colleague of mine, and he confirmed that, indeed, these pictures look just like what he remembers seeing inside those bunkers," said David Albright, president of the Institute for Science and International Security in Washington.

The barrels were found inside sealed bunkers, which American soldiers are seen on the videotape cutting through. Inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency sealed the bunkers where the explosives were kept just before the war began.

"The seal's critical," Albright said. "The fact that there's a photo of what looks like an IAEA seal means that what's behind those doors is HMX. They only sealed bunkers that had HMX in them."

After the bunkers were opened, the 101st was not ordered to secure the facility. A senior officer told ABC News the division would not have had nearly enough soldiers to do so.

It remains unclear how much HMX was at the facility, but what does seem clear is that the U.S. military opened the bunkers at Al-Qaqaa and left them unguarded. Since then, the material has disappeared

Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita said it's not clear what the photos indicate.

"We know there were other units in the area who acknowledged finding explosives," he said. "Some Explosive Ordnance Destruction units have a recollection that some high explosives in the area were taken out of there."

DiRita said the Pentagon is trying to contact the units of the 101st Airborne Division that may have been involved in the opening of these bunkers to get a better sense of what happened.

Late today, the Pentagon released a satellite image of Al-Qaqaa bunkers taken March 17, 2003, that shows the presence of two heavy-lift tractor trailers outside of a bunker. The Pentagon is uncertain about whether the specific bunker where the trucks are located actually contained explosives that are now missing.

Their intent in releasing the image is to demonstrate that on the same day that the IAEA inspectors left Iraq, Saddam Hussein's regime was in control of the facility, countering the impression that this was a "hermetically sealed" location and showing that access was available to non-U.N. personnel.

Not released today were images taken March 14, 2003, and March 20, 2003, that show no vehicles on the premises. There also was an image from April 1, 2003, that showed a large number of trucks at the nearby Iskandariyah airfield. Officials acknowledged they have no idea what those trucks were there for.

It is highly unusual for the Pentagon to release spy satellite imagery. Officials said today's decision was made with the full agreement of the intelligence community and that the White House did not have to approve the release.


ABC News' Martha Raddatz filed this report for World News Tonight. Luis Martinez contributed to this report.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=206847&page=1

[GnRNightrain]

Come on Will, you know me better than that.? I dont just post talking points.? This is true, and something I still havent heard an answer to.

I posted this because that's always what I read here and on the conservative media. I was wondering if there was any argument besides the notorious "look at his senate record!".

I personally don't think Kerry would be like the best president ever, but I really think he will represent America A LOT better than Bush and maybe he'll try to lead the world along with other countries, not just by himself.

Fair enough.  I agree that this election is a referendum on Bush more than anything.  But you have to remember that if you are choosing an alternative to Bush you might want to make sure that he is better than Bush.  I for one dont think that he is.  I think he is far worse.

[GnRNightrain]

This is a story from the GOP that is trying to cover up for their mistakes in Iraq. Like that CNN Analyst guy said, "George W. Bush is the worst president we've ever had."

Kerry has more expirence, Kerry deserves to win this election. Being governor of Texas does not count as good expirence.

If Kerry has so much experience, how come he never mentions his senate record at all?

Vietnam war veteran! 20 years in the senate!

Have you ever seen Kerry campaign? How do you know if he mentions his Senate record or not? What kerry says in his speeches is of his jurisdiction and not yours or mine.

But you would think that to be President you would have to have a successful political career before you reach office.?

Were you talking about Kerry or our current president?

So instead of answering the question you change the subject.  Nice move.