Fuck Christmas

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Christmas is a good excuse to get together with family and friends you usually may or may not see or talk to on a regular basis. So socially it is a good thing.

Kids love Christmas, its when they have off of school and get stuff.

Business and the economy loves christmas due to higher profits.

Christmas is not a bad thing.

Fuck those who find Christmas offensive. Put your energy into something more productive.
( Ex. christmas tree being re-named a holiday tree in NY.)  Seems if someone claims something is offensive on religious grounds they can get away with anything, but when it comes to explicit material like porn, it's freedom of expression and any minor with a computer can access it. Figure that out. ( Personally Im not offended by Christmas or porn)

[Sterlingdog]

Now...I did not say it had no meaning to me. I would prefer anytime with family to be more a time of reflection. Something deeper then buying each other a book or a jacket for the 10th year in a row. Time with my family, the people I love and care for is important. Not buying them crap made in China.

I said people rushing out to buy presents, really, is empty and has no meaning. It is magical through a childs eyes, of course. Because Santa Claus is created and marketed, so we buy them presents. The demand is created through the child. Just like anything else: kids cereal being close to the ground so the child can see and demand it for instance.

Of course I celebrate Christmas with my children. I always do a real tree (no fake please, I need the smell), the meal, presents, the one gift on Christmas eve. The entire deal. But I only do that for my children. I doubt too much we would go to the shopping expense if I did not have them. In fact I am sure I would not. I have asked the same thing every year for myself for Christmas: nothing. Because I don't need anything. I see consumerism as a waste of money and resources for the most part.

Again, I am not saying I don't enjoy the holidays (Christmas music though....uh no) but if anybody thinks it is not about spending money, they are mistaken. Does me pointing that out mean I "hate Christmas"? Of course not. Does it mean I am "Down on everything" of course not. It is a simple statement that is honest and accurate about this country and what Christmas really is all about. Go to one of our thousands of malls and then tell me I'm wrong.

You are confusing me.  I'm glad to hear you celebrate Christmas and that it does have meaning to you.  But then you say again that it is just about spending money.  If its not just about money to you, why do you think that's all it is to everyone else?  That's a part of it, of course, and maybe that's all it is to some people.  But not everyone.

And as far as presents go, I don't need anything either.  But it does feel good when someone gives you a gift or card that lets you know they were thinking of you.  That's why I give gifts and/or cards to others.  Not  because a marketing exec tells me to.

[Gunner80]

What the hell are you trying to prove with your posts SLCPUNK?  You're in no way changing any ones mind either way. 

[Surfrider]

Am I the only one that doesn't like Christmas? It has no meaning for me. It's just a dumb holiday. An excuse for stores to make money. I hate it. Dumbass tree, and cookies. Fuck Christmas.

You have a point and I agree.

It really is just a capitalism at its worst (or best considering what side of the street you are on.)

how "thought provoking"

Yet, ironically your reply gives little if any thought at all. (Put into it, or needed to read it.) Proving that history, does indeed, repeat itself.

What a surprise, you both dislike Christmas.? I really wish that those that disliked capitalism would move to places where socialism or communism exists.? Quit changing (ruining) our country and go move to Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea.

Certain "traditional" things like Christmas, I just love.? I actually love this time of year, and I don't go to church.? What is it with the extreme left and their hate for everything traditional about the United States?

This has got to be the most asinine thing I have ever read here on this board.? Telling people to move to another country because they don't like the capitalistic aspects of Christmas is stupid beyond words.

And for the record, wanting to hold our (un) elected leaders responsible for lying and war crimes doesn't make one a communist, socialist, or a Marxist.

Not quite as asinine as starting a whole thread bashing Christmas and capitalism.  Sorry, but some of us like these things.  Why not move somewhere where they agree with your views instead of changing a society to agree with them?  Just curious.

[Surfrider]

What a surprise, you both dislike Christmas.? I really wish that those that disliked capitalism would move to places where socialism or communism exists.? Quit changing (ruining) our country and go move to Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea.

Certain "traditional" things like Christmas, I just love.? I actually love this time of year, and I don't go to church.? What is it with the extreme left and their hate for everything traditional about the United States?

LOL, little uptight over there in California GNRNIGHTTRAIN?

Christmas is nothing more than a huge marketing scam in this country. It has little or no meaning to anybody. It is about people spending money on useless crap they don't need. Marketing to every single sense you have to do one thing: BUY.

You may be proud of that part of America, but I am not. If you are happy being labeled a consumer and that means American to you, then good for you. I find it rather insulting and degrading to be labeled ?a consumer?. But congratulations to you sir! Pat yourself on the back, you are now an empty shell here to do nothing but make money and spend it on useless crap you have been marketed to your entire life to buy. Whippie!

You must be so patriotic and proud of yourself this Christmas. So run along as you are told (by marketing firms that spend millions figuring out how to make you spend money) and buy all the widgets you can get your hands on. Heck, why not just spend money you DON'T HAVE (that's really the American way isn't it?)? Rack it all up on credit cards and spend away, you patriotic consumer of shit made in China.

Merry Christmas!!!

Buying presents for others, and buying things for those in need.? What a horrible Holiday.? You do realize that when money gets spent, it changes hands.? It allows people to have jobs.? People that would otherwise starve are able to obtain employment based on the capitalistic spending that these consumers engage in.? The government is able to make its money in taxes so they can waste it.? In fact, the capitalism that you despise allows us to be both capitalistic and socialist at the same time. 

[the dirt]

Of course I celebrate Christmas with my children. I always do a real tree (no fake please, I need the smell), the meal, presents, the one gift on Christmas eve. The entire deal. But I only do that for my children. I doubt too much we would go to the shopping expense if I did not have them. In fact I am sure I would not.

And just what kind of example are you setting for your kids?...

[Jim]

What the hell are you trying to prove with your posts SLCPUNK? You're in no way changing any ones mind either way.

Quite.

SLC, you usually come of (most of the time) as an intelligent guy. But in this thread you just sound like an annoying protestor, preaching to people about something they have no real control over; and thus your words bounce off of them. 'Boo hoo, Christmas=Capitalism at it's worst.' You just sound annoying.

And what's all this 'give each other stuff we don't need' about, eh? Need? No, no...

But what do we need? By all means lead by example and renounce all of your earthly posessions. Maybe I'll follow suit. Or, you could always be less extreme. Give your family macoroni cards and sweaters that you've made.

I'm not all together comfortable with your definition of what constitutes need.

I love Christmas. Everything about it. Most people, I find, hate the holiday because they have no real part in it; maybe they have no real close family. And I feel sorry for them. But those I know with good friends, and loving families, that detest Christmas? Now, that I cannot understand. At it's very least it is time off work and/or college or school, as well as presents. What could possibly be bad about that, I ask?
Jealousy, usually. But I have no resentment for those who find hate of the holiday through this. As I said...I feel sorry for them.

And SLC, please, I beg ya, leave behind all of the 'message of Jesus has been taken out of the holiday', not least because you are repeating yourself, but also because this (reason? argument against? I'm not too sure) is easily countered.

How? Just read the posts of anybody in this thread who enjoys the holiday, but are open to the fact that it is not on religous grounds. That is what Christmas is about.

Were you putting your argument forward for...

Mothers Day? Fathers Day? Valentines Day? Now. There we would find agreement.

But for (Christ's) sake. Let us, can we not, have one real holiday.

Of course I celebrate Christmas with my children. I always do a real tree (no fake please, I need the smell), the meal, presents, the one gift on Christmas eve. The entire deal. But I only do that for my children. I doubt too much we would go to the shopping expense if I did not have them. In fact I am sure I would not.

And just what kind of example are you setting for your kids?...

Oh, and double time 'aye.'

Teach them the real meaning of Christmas, why do you not?

At least, your real meaning of Christmas.

You can't justify yourself, sir. You're playing right into Capitalism's hands, are you not? But, for the kids...

I did it for the kids...

I used to hate it, but this year, i will have a 3 weeks old baby at xmas and somehow, days being dark in late afternoons, xmas lights and musics and feeling alone, bitter cold numbing me, all this doesn't have much meaning anymore...

Baby's lit up my life.

Sorry. Couldn't quite get around what you were (trying) to say.?

[RichardNixon]

I'd like to defend those of us that do not care for Christmas

I just don't like it. It's a sour time for me. I hate all those stupid songs and holiday spirit crap. If you like it, honestly, I'm happy for you. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but am rather voicing my opinion.

[Jonathan]

What the hell are you trying to prove with your posts SLCPUNK? You're in no way changing any ones mind either way.

Quite.

SLC, you usually come of (most of the time) as an intelligent guy. But in this thread you just sound like an annoying protestor, preaching to people about something they have no real control over; and thus your words bounce off of them. 'Boo hoo, Christmas=Capitalism at it's worst.' You just sound annoying.

And what's all this 'give each other stuff we don't need' about, eh? Need? No, no...

But what do we need? By all means lead by example and renounce all of your earthly posessions. Maybe I'll follow suit. Or, you could always be less extreme. Give your family macoroni cards and sweaters that you've made.

I'm not all together comfortable with your definition of what constitutes need.

I love Christmas. Everything about it. Most people, I find, hate the holiday because they have no real part in it; maybe they have no real close family. And I feel sorry for them. But those I know with good friends, and loving families, that detest Christmas? Now, that I cannot understand. At it's very least it is time off work and/or college or school, as well as presents. What could possibly be bad about that, I ask?
Jealousy, usually. But I have no resentment for those who find hate of the holiday through this. As I said...I feel sorry for them.

And SLC, please, I beg ya, leave behind all of the 'message of Jesus has been taken out of the holiday', not least because you are repeating yourself, but also because this (reason? argument against? I'm not too sure) is easily countered.

How? Just read the posts of anybody in this thread who enjoys the holiday, but are open to the fact that it is not on religous grounds. That is what Christmas is about.

Were you putting your argument forward for...

Mothers Day? Fathers Day? Valentines Day? Now. There we would find agreement.

But for (Christ's) sake. Let us, can we not, have one real holiday.

Amen.

[Walk]

Christmas is when we buy gifts with our hard earned money to give to other people. It's socialistic in nature. I don't like the marketing and looting, but it doesn't come out of capitalism. Capitalists buy products all the time for the whole year. Christmas selling is taking advantage of the expected altruism of the comsumer at this time of year. It's a left-wing ideology that's perverted what Christmas is about. I blame The Christmas Carol and other Victorian propaganda stories.

[Booker Floyd]

Its my favorite time of the year. 

[SLCPUNK]

Now...I did not say it had no meaning to me. I would prefer anytime with family to be more a time of reflection. Something deeper then buying each other a book or a jacket for the 10th year in a row. Time with my family, the people I love and care for is important. Not buying them crap made in China.

I said people rushing out to buy presents, really, is empty and has no meaning. It is magical through a childs eyes, of course. Because Santa Claus is created and marketed, so we buy them presents. The demand is created through the child. Just like anything else: kids cereal being close to the ground so the child can see and demand it for instance.

Of course I celebrate Christmas with my children. I always do a real tree (no fake please, I need the smell), the meal, presents, the one gift on Christmas eve. The entire deal. But I only do that for my children. I doubt too much we would go to the shopping expense if I did not have them. In fact I am sure I would not. I have asked the same thing every year for myself for Christmas: nothing. Because I don't need anything. I see consumerism as a waste of money and resources for the most part.

Again, I am not saying I don't enjoy the holidays (Christmas music though....uh no) but if anybody thinks it is not about spending money, they are mistaken. Does me pointing that out mean I "hate Christmas"? Of course not. Does it mean I am "Down on everything" of course not. It is a simple statement that is honest and accurate about this country and what Christmas really is all about. Go to one of our thousands of malls and then tell me I'm wrong.

You are confusing me.  I'm glad to hear you celebrate Christmas and that it does have meaning to you.  But then you say again that it is just about spending money.  If its not just about money to you, why do you think that's all it is to everyone else?  That's a part of it, of course, and maybe that's all it is to some people.  But not everyone.

I think this is getting blown out of proportion.

I think you should reread my posts. I am not trying to confuse you.

I think what that capitalism takes the front seat during Christmas. That is all I am saying. I am not a big fan about that part of Christmas.

What the hell are you trying to prove with your posts SLCPUNK? You're in no way changing any ones mind either way.

I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. I am simply making my observation. I am protesting nothing.

[SLCPUNK]

Of course I celebrate Christmas with my children. I always do a real tree (no fake please, I need the smell), the meal, presents, the one gift on Christmas eve. The entire deal. But I only do that for my children. I doubt too much we would go to the shopping expense if I did not have them. In fact I am sure I would not.

And just what kind of example are you setting for your kids?...

What is your question?

Christmas is magical for kids, and I make sure they get that. But as they grow up I also explain to them how marketing works so they don't spend their entire lives trying to keep up with the Joneses buying shit they don't need.

Ever wonder why half of America is walking around with 40k credit card debt ?

[SLCPUNK]

SLC, you usually come of (most of the time) as an intelligent guy. But in this thread you just sound like an annoying protestor, preaching to people about something they have no real control over; and thus your words bounce off of them. 'Boo hoo, Christmas=Capitalism at it's worst.' You just sound annoying.

In this country Christmas is focused on spending money. Simple as that. I am not "protesting" anything, but pointing out that the holiday is like any other capitalist driven holiday. Valentines, Mothers Day, Fathers Day etc. It is the same as those, if not bigger, from a consumer standpoint.

And what's all this 'give each other stuff we don't need' about, eh? Need? No, no...

Well, for instance, I will buy my son some new toys this Christmas. He already has a million and one useless pieces of plastic in his room. Like most young boys (In USA anyway) he will play with it, and either break it, or forget about it, and then go on to play with something else. These toys will accumulate in his closet until they are overflowing. Soon, more will be added as different occasions role around. Another football this year? Probably. Does he already have one? Probably has about 4 in that room of his. Does he really need it? Nope. Does he probably have enough toys in his room to keep him busy until he discovers women? You bet.

Through marketing however the child has created the demand to the parent. It is dictated through Santa Claus. The kid wants it and looks forward to it. Hell, he may even be a good boy for a few weeks leading up to Christmas.  Although my son is much smarter and will still be naughty, knowing full well Santa will still come... Marketing is what runs this society, the drive to spend money. Millions upon millions of dollars used in research to do nothing but to get us to spend money.

Is this me throwing a fit over Christmas? Hardly. But it is me pointing out what a huge consumer event it is in this country. I see the usual banter from the right wing nut jobs on this board. Telling me to move away, asking me why I hate America. Why I would want to ruin it. Please don't let their posts turn mine into something dramatic. It is not, nor was it meant to be dramatic. It is what it is.

But what do we need? By all means lead by example and renounce all of your earthly posessions. Maybe I'll follow suit. Or, you could always be less extreme. Give your family macoroni cards and sweaters that you've made.

All earthly posessions I could not give up, because I could not function. However I do my best to keep my needs and wants in two different categories. I want many things, you bet. I am bombarded with images that create wants. I want a new car almost everyday. I love cars. But I have bought the best car I could, and kept it running the best I can, and I will enjoy that car until I can no longer justify the money to maintain it. I also will only buy wants after a waiting period and with cash only. Usually at a discount, either through the internet, or some half off type place (also online).

I do own real estate, but that is not a want. Since it is actually work and will one day (hopefully) secure my future which would be a need. I could pay no money for a new car tomorrow and drive away, but that would utlimately take the money away from my needs in the long run (real estate or other). Clothes I buy at discount type outlet stores only and buy only what I need. My last clothes shopping trip consisted of about 150 dollars and my last shopping trip before that was 5 years prior.

I have credit available to me unsecured and secured for roughly 120k dollars. My balance owed to the banks? About 1100 dollars. This money was taken out not for a want, but for a need. I used it to put money into a home I am fixing up. I will borrow money, only if, it can make me money. But I will never use credit for anything else. Even emergencies I will pay cash.

That is the best I can live my life without buying shit I don't need right now.

I'm not all together comfortable with your definition of what constitutes need.

That is something that is all relative.

And SLC, please, I beg ya, leave behind all of the 'message of Jesus has been taken out of the holiday', not least because you are repeating yourself, but also because this (reason? argument against? I'm not too sure) is easily countered.

Let it be countered then. It is my opinion that the true meaning of Christmas (and I am no Christian) is second to spending money.

Mothers Day? Fathers Day? Valentines Day? Now. There we would find agreement.

Christmas is the same, if not bigger, marketing wise and consumer wise.

But for (Christ's) sake. Let us, can we not, have one real holiday.

Who is stopping you? 

Teach them the real meaning of Christmas, why do you not?

I have no choice, but to play into Capitalisms hands. And for that short while I will concede to it. It is part of being a parent. Of course I did it for the kids, who else would I do it for?

[lynn1961]

I think I understand where SLC is coming from, here.  Some people love Christmas and all the trimmings that go with it, and that is fine.  Others might find the holidays to be very overwhelming and, for some, it can be a very depressing & lonely time of year.  We all have to admit that there is a lot of pressure put on us to have the "perfect" Christmas, whether it's the food or drink we consume, the gifts we buy, the decorations we put up, on & on.  All of this is very driven by the media - it's everywhere - magazines, TV ads, newspaper inserts, shopping malls, on & on, & it starts in late August & early September.

When I look around, and maybe it's more of a female thing, but there is this huge drive to do EVERYTHING & do it perfect - decorate the house just so inside & out (& just to get some decorating ideas & make you feel even more inadequate, just go on a house tour where everything is decorated to the hilt with expensive things/page through any decorating magazine); bake hundreds of cookies & candies to give plates to everyone you know, who in return give you plates of more cookies & candies; mail out dozens & dozens of cards to people, some of whom you never even see anymore (and don't forget to insert the yearly Christmas letter that updates everyone on how wonderful your kids are doing !); buy gifts for people who already have everything & probably won't really appreciate what you give them anway because they already have it or it doesn't suit their tastes & they will either put it in a drawer or return it the next day (and what's the average cost of a gift, anymore, so you are not seen as being "cheap"?  $50.00 for family members, $300.00/$500.00 per child, I don't even know anymore) - and we buy these gifts for some people because we really want to but I can bet there's plenty on the list we buy for because we HAVE to; go all out to have the perfect holiday party with the best foods, etc.; and then feel obligated (because newspaper or magazine articles suggest you do so, because after all it's Christmas & you don't want to be seen as a scrooge) to give a small gift or tip to everyone from the postal carrier, the garbage crew, the elevator operator, the door attendant, your hair dresser, the kids' teachers/coaches etc., your minister, the neighbors, the parking attendant, your boss, your coworkers, let's see who did I leave off the list here?      It is hurry, hurry, hurry, rush, rush, rush, buy, buy, buy.  And by the time New Year's is here, you have overwhelmed yourself in credit card debt & spent thousands of dollars.  For what?  It's no wonder the suicide rate increases over the holidays.  Some people don't have the family or the money, but the pressure's there.   Stop & look at it - it becomes insane.  Maybe some people thrive on it and have the money to afford all this.  Maybe for others, it's a sad & frustrating time of year. 

For me, I used to dread Christmas. I was a single parent working full time struggling just to make ends meet.  I couldn't afford $500.00 at Christmas, let alone, $1000.00 or more.  Seriously, December meant not paying the rent or the car payment that month just so I could afford gifts & food.  Then, I'd hope to catch back up by tax season.  All of this coming at me every day, in my face, was driving me crazy.  I would get very down in the dumps.  I finally just stopped.  Now I avoid the malls, I buy for only a few people that I want to buy for and then only a little of something I know they really want or need, I only bake a little bit of the things my family really wants to have at Christmas, and I'll be damned if I'm going to start giving a tip or gift to everyone that exists in my life, and I don't send cards. 

I just think that, with all the hustle & bustle & trying to keep up with everything, we somehow lose & miss out on the "true" meaning of Christmas, whatever that may be for anyone (for me it is giving remembrance to the birth of the Christ Child). It is true, the holiday season has become very big & overblown & is definitely driven by commercialism.  Just look around.  I'm not trying to be a humbug here, it's true.  Plus, why do special things for charities and others just because it's Christmas?  What about the rest of the year? 

In the end, will all these material things really matter?  What really makes the best Christmas memories?  It's the quiet & the simple things & the time spent with those whom you love the most.  It's the hush & the stillness & the wonder of Christmas Eve.  If we'd only just stop to listen & take a breath.   

There, I've written my "editorial opinion" for the day!


         

[pilferk]

Am I the only one that doesn't like Christmas? It has no meaning for me. It's just a dumb holiday. An excuse for stores to make money. I hate it. Dumbass tree, and cookies. Fuck Christmas.

Not that it's any of your business, but we plan to....oh, wait, FUCK Christmas, not FUCK ON Christmas..oops, my bad.

Seriously, though....

We've always made X-mas about family and, given I have a great relationship with my family, it makes X-mas sorta nice.  It's very "Norman Rockwell"-ian, though without the Martha Stewart type pressure that lynn mentions.

And having kids radically changes your opinion of X-mas, too.  It becomes much more "magical" to see X-mas through their eyes...at least so far.  They're young without a real hint of materialism yet.

I do agree, though, on the fact that X-mas can be very much a material thing.  SLC makes some good points.

[lynn1961]

Having children does make a difference.  Christmas becomes more magical for those few years.  Christmas was magical when I was a kid too, but I didn't have to worry about anything except finding presents under the tree Christmas morning.   It's just never the same once you reach the pressures of adulthood, it just isn't. 

[Queen of Everything]

CHRISTMAS RULES!!!!!! 

Christmas is AWESOME everyone knows that!!  And dont be replying "Just because you still get presents" I love BUYING presents more than getting!!  Its just fun with your family!

[Jonathan]

How can someone hate Christmas.. That's impossible!

[SLCPUNK]

How can someone hate Christmas.. That's impossible!

This guy did, for a while anyway..........