It's been 3 years, don't you think the 2002 disaster is old news now?

[Luigi]

Your right about Axl being out of shape. Axl will be in great shape when he returns

[Ax]

I don't agree with everything in Jimmy's post, but the one thing I could not agree more with is his general confusion about how Axl screwed his comeback up so much. I mean I think we can all agree that Axl is a really smart person when it comes down to it. And he had a long time to plan for his comeback, so why did it seem so unorganized and rushed? Perhaps Axl gave into pressure from the label or some other factor forced him to come back before he wanted to, but I think the decision was ultimately made by him so you cannot use that as an excuse. Maybe it was a bit of ego on Axl's part that made him think that just touring under the gnr name would be enough and that the other stuff would fall into place.

I'm not basing this on anything, but maybe it was also the fact that Axl was trying to do too much that caused him to fail. Maybe he didn't have anyone around to tell him that he should release the cd before touring and that he should just start with concerts in big cities. Probably the label was so excited to hear that he was finally doing something that they didn't step in to raise any of these concerns.

In the end though, I'm happy that they toured in 2002 for the simple reason that I was too young to see gnr in the 80s/90s so it was my only chance to see Axl live. And three years later I'm very happy that I got that chance because who knows if we will ever see him again. Sure the rumors say "soon" but who knows if that will ever really happen.

[Luigi]

open fire guys that was pretty good. Ax you did miss some really wild concerts back in the late 80's early 90's. It really dosen't matter what happened with the 2002 tour. We all know what Axl is capable of and when he makes his return the 2002 past will be forgoten.  Glad you got to see what you could Axl will be back 

[badapple81]

Axl looked in great shape at the VMAs.

He looked bad, (not just the braids/attire, but psychically out of shape, which is important given the energitic performances he was trying to deliver), he planned poorly (why was there a need to go to 'back of the woods' type areas - stick to the main centres?) and most importantly of all, he sounded below par. The last part I feel, can be directly attributed to him being out of shape/out of breath.

Planned poorly? No need to go to the back of the woods type areas? 

Please explain. He ran across the stage in typical Axl fashion, from side to side. During the guitar solos in Paradise City he may have gone to the side slightly but that was cos he wasn't singing at the time. Beats going into the dressing room like he normally does doesn't it? For the most part he was in the centres and started and finished the songs there.

BTW, I thought that was a cool Axl look, and so do most neutral observers who have commented to me knowing that I'm a GN'R fan.? I wasn't such a fan of the 02 bigger jerseys etc.. but hey.. this is so Dead Horse.. can't believe we are still talking about all of this.

[ppbebe]

I haven't seen him out of shape or breath on the boots of '02 shows, well maybe save for a few secs at the Vmas.
hey, Show me a clip of evidence if you have any.

I wasn't this big fan of the band before that so I guess I'm hardly blind.

[WARose]

well, i didn`t get the chance to see gnr live, since i wasn`t into gnr at that time.......

but on the boots i saw, axl did a pretty great job...    i love the performances for my part. although i don`t really like the ny show.

i think after rio he lost a lot of weight  and wasn`t fat at all at the 2002 tour....

[Nytunz]

Who cares if Axl got fat or bald or thin or low or high!
Axl is a human beeing. Whats important, is that he still makes great music, and do killer performence!
And from what i have seen on the 2002 tour! Axl got everything to make it! He still is a great frontman!
There is no frontman out there with the same karisma..

[jimmythegent]

Axl looked in great shape at the VMAs.

He looked bad, (not just the braids/attire, but psychically out of shape, which is important given the energitic performances he was trying to deliver), he planned poorly (why was there a need to go to 'back of the woods' type areas - stick to the main centres?) and most importantly of all, he sounded below par. The last part I feel, can be directly attributed to him being out of shape/out of breath.

Planned poorly? No need to go to the back of the woods type areas??

Please explain. He ran across the stage in typical Axl fashion, from side to side. During the guitar solos in Paradise City he may have gone to the side slightly but that was cos he wasn't singing at the time. Beats going into the dressing room like he normally does doesn't it? For the most part he was in the centres and started and finished the songs there.

BTW, I thought that was a cool Axl look, and so do most neutral observers who have commented to me knowing that I'm a GN'R fan.? I wasn't such a fan of the 02 bigger jerseys etc.. but hey.. this is so Dead Horse.. can't believe we are still talking about all of this.

"back of the woods" was a reference to some of the obscure venues/areas he played, not positions on the stage. Initally I stated how seemingly poorly planned the whole affair was, and I stand by that - if it was well planned, it would have been sold out venues accross the board and of course the tour would have been seen through to completion.

like I stated in my initial post, my concern with Axls fitness, comes down to the impact it had/has on his voice. Granted, he looked different from RIR3 (where it was plainly flab) - yes hes filled out and some of this may be muscle. However, he panted alot, was breathless alot and was unable to sustain notes (especially in the upper register). I know some of you say his voice is as good if not better than in the day. Well I think the vast majority of people disagree. Every person ive spoken to who witnessed VMAs (fans or casual rock fans), thought it was diabolical. Same with the boots from the tour ive played them. I expect better - I know hes capable of it. What kind of fan would I be if I blindly accepted/swallowed blatant mediocrity from the greatest frontman the worlds ever seen?

You guys like the 2002 tour look? Thats great, it doesnt bother me, athough I did think he looked like a berk, but youre right - its the music that matters.

And ppbebe, youire only a fan of the new and not the old? Well, that great, I dont think theres anything to discuss there then

[ppbebe]

And ppbebe, youire only a fan of the new and not the old? Well, that great, I dont think theres anything to discuss there then

I said I wasn't this big fan before that.

I do like the songs n videos by the old band. to me it is like Zep or such. Classic.
and I love the current band maybe even more than you love the old band.

But I guess you're right about the latter bit of the sentence. 
This thread is about the new, obviously.

[Neemo]

Axl looked in great shape at the VMAs.

He looked bad, (not just the braids/attire, but psychically out of shape, which is important given the energitic performances he was trying to deliver), he planned poorly (why was there a need to go to 'back of the woods' type areas - stick to the main centres?) and most importantly of all, he sounded below par. The last part I feel, can be directly attributed to him being out of shape/out of breath.

Planned poorly? No need to go to the back of the woods type areas??

Please explain. He ran across the stage in typical Axl fashion, from side to side. During the guitar solos in Paradise City he may have gone to the side slightly but that was cos he wasn't singing at the time. Beats going into the dressing room like he normally does doesn't it? For the most part he was in the centres and started and finished the songs there.

BTW, I thought that was a cool Axl look, and so do most neutral observers who have commented to me knowing that I'm a GN'R fan.? I wasn't such a fan of the 02 bigger jerseys etc.. but hey.. this is so Dead Horse.. can't believe we are still talking about all of this.

"back of the woods" was a reference to some of the obscure venues/areas he played, not positions on the stage. Initally I stated how seemingly poorly planned the whole affair was, and I stand by that - if it was well planned, it would have been sold out venues accross the board and of course the tour would have been seen through to completion.

like I stated in my initial post, my concern with Axls fitness, comes down to the impact it had/has on his voice. Granted, he looked different from RIR3 (where it was plainly flab) - yes hes filled out and some of this may be muscle. However, he panted alot, was breathless alot and was unable to sustain notes (especially in the upper register). I know some of you say his voice is as good if not better than in the day. Well I think the vast majority of people disagree. Every person ive spoken to who witnessed VMAs (fans or casual rock fans), thought it was diabolical. Same with the boots from the tour ive played them. I expect better - I know hes capable of it. What kind of fan would I be if I blindly accepted/swallowed blatant mediocrity from the greatest frontman the worlds ever seen?

You guys like the 2002 tour look? Thats great, it doesnt bother me, athough I did think he looked like a berk, but youre right - its the music that matters.

And ppbebe, youire only a fan of the new and not the old? Well, that great, I dont think theres anything to discuss there then

I agree he looked and sounded terrible on VMA's but RIR was alright. Firstly it was his first gigantic show since forever. Secondly I saw him in Toronto in 2002, and dude he was flawless (I was waiting since 1988 to be able to see Axl/GnR live so my expectations were running pretty high and I can honestly say that I was not let down by that show). Ya know it's easy analyze something after the fact. Next time try to go to a show then you can discuss how good or shitty he was. The energy of the moment is what determines a performance, not a 3"x5" crappy downloaded bootleg on your computer. (BTW my freind, i went to the show with, is a personal trainer and he was amazed at his cardio, he ran around like a fucking maniac and didn't miss a note)

I prefer his old appearance but looks has nothing to do with ability, he can wear a tu-tu and a fucking halo for all i care, as long as his performance doesn't suffer. ?

[badapple81]

Thanks jimmy, I misunderstood your post 

Well here's to a return to forget the past 

[F*ck Fear]

If a re-emergance does happen, it really needs to be done properly this time

It amazes me that Axl went about things in such a haphazard, cavalier way in 2002.

He looked bad, (not just the braids/attire, but psychically out of shape, which is important given the energitic performances he was trying to deliver), he planned poorly (why was there a need to go to 'back of the woods' type areas - stick to the main centres?) and most importantly of all, he sounded below par. The last part I feel, can be directly attributed to him being out of shape/out of breath.

What was the point of 2002? I know, I know - to blood the band in a live arena. Come on, it was a foolish idea that was a failure in every aspect and most likely the reason we've been kept in the dark the last 3 years. Axl, having perhaps digested the negative reactions he was receiving, or even viewing some footage of performances (VMAs being the pinnacle of embarressment), lost faith in himself again. Got scared, lost any momentum he was gathering.

Firstly, there must be new product. Touring without it now is just insane (as it was in 2002). Secondly, Axl has to take this a bit more seriously next time. He was too arrogant to believe that after a 10 year absence from the stage, he can just rock up, unprepared, unfocused and out of shape and start singing Jungle again and get the euphoric reaction he once commanded.

Perhaps thats why it would be best if this 'GNR' remained a studio proposition.
In all fairness, Axl hasnt been a consistently great live singer in some time now ( 1991 and the occasional 92,93 show). Sure, hes still somewhat charismatic (perhaps this is more a freakish curiosity moreso than charisma though?), but the live vocal chops have long since abandoned him. These folk who claim his 'new' voice is better or on par with the supposedly 'clean' Appetite era voice are either deluded or kidding themselves. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure his studio vocals will be great. Live, however, he does not only himself, but the GNR legacy a major disservice.

If he does think he's up to a tour though, I sincerly hope Axl takes the challenge alot more seriously. He was coasting on former glories last time out. It's time for him to step it up in a big way.

I do agree with some of what you are saying..He needs to get in shape for the next tour...Planning it better we be alot of help...But he has always had on and off nights when it comes to his vocals...Thats what live is about....I saw Axl at the ACC in Toronto Canada during the 2002 and as far as his vocals are concerned,I have no complaints..Actually I think he sounded fucking amazing.

[KillYourIdols]

When I saw them at the 2nd Vegas show he looked in really good shape. Theres a picture floating around somewhere but I'm too lazy to find it.

[Nytunz]

I dont fucking know what (some) of you guys are looking for! What do you what? Still complaining about Axl`s look and voice!
What do you think you are! First! Axl did a fucking great performance in the 2002 shows, what from iv? seen, and heard! It was incredible!
And Axl needs to get in shape??? Hey man, look at yourself! Maybe you should take alook at your own bigass body before you are complaining
about someone else! Axl do what he whants... And im sure he keeps himself in shape, like everyone else "normal" human beeing!

I cant wait to see Axl out there! But some of you guys are focusing on stupid things! Axl will be back, when he is ready! And im sure he will give us
alot of incredible music to listen to! But i dont understand why some of you keep worry about his look and his wealth! Im sure Axl knows best himself
and he has brain enough to think for himself! Dont bother with all the stupid comments!

When Axl is back! We can injoy the new Music! And injoy the new Band! Why do some of you worry so much.
Axl is  a nice looking guy, and it seems on some of you that he has been 100 years older since 2002!!! Why do you care?

[jimmythegent]

I dont fucking know what (some) of you guys are looking for! What do you what? Still complaining about Axl`s look and voice!
What do you think you are! First! Axl did a fucking great performance in the 2002 shows, what from iv? seen, and heard! It was incredible!
And Axl needs to get in shape??? Hey man, look at yourself! Maybe you should take alook at your own bigass body before you are complaining
about someone else! Axl do what he whants... And im sure he keeps himself in shape, like everyone else "normal" human beeing!

I cant wait to see Axl out there! But some of you guys are focusing on stupid things! Axl will be back, when he is ready! And im sure he will give us
alot of incredible music to listen to! But i dont understand why some of you keep worry about his look and his wealth! Im sure Axl knows best himself
and he has brain enough to think for himself! Dont bother with all the stupid comments!

When Axl is back! We can injoy the new Music! And injoy the new Band! Why do some of you worry so much.
Axl is? a nice looking guy, and it seems on some of you that he has been 100 years older since 2002!!! Why do you care?

I think perhaps you missed the point of what I was saying (or didnt read it properly)

I personally, dont care too much what Axl looks like (although those in charge of marketing him probably do)

For the last time, in relation to his weight and fitness, if it is affecting his singing (which I believe it did), then that is the reason I want him to get in shape

[Doc Emmett Brown]

If a re-emergance does happen, it really needs to be done properly this time

It amazes me that Axl went about things in such a haphazard, cavalier way in 2002.

I agree with your post,  and this sentence hit a chord.  Axl amazes me in general    but, the 2002 tour takes the cake.  Especially since he said in some press release that he knew how to take things from Point A to Point B (I'm paraphrasing).   Yes, the 2002 disaster is so old, it's starting to smell, but there's too many unanswered questions.  But all he has to do is come back in fine form, and all will be forgiven.

[WARose]

i guess we all can agree that the tour was poorly planned. they played the wrong cities at the wrong time and axl didn`t show up for two shows +the cancelled rest of the tour( well that`s not a real planning problem i think...)  but on the shape topic i can`t agree. he didn`t hit every note at every show, but for the most part he did.     and try to sing just one song while running around........

[gilld1]

When there is no news then old news remains relevent.  Everything Axl does, he does it to himself.

[chadj76]

Just wondering what "back cities" did they play (the VERY few shows they did play?!?!?!)  Or, I will even ask what "back cities" did they have planned that they didn't play?

[jameslofton29]

Just wondering what "back cities" did they play (the VERY few shows they did play?!?!?!)? Or, I will even ask what "back cities" did they have planned that they didn't play?

The "back cities" people are referring to is Fargo, North Dakota and probably Albany, NY.