French Riots

[Surfrider]

 
Fiery riots spread beyond Paris

This isn't get much coverage over here.  I know there are plenty of French on this board.  What is up with this?



Friday, November 4, 2005; Posted: 10:18 a.m. EST (15:18 GMT)

Manage Alerts | What Is This? PARIS, France (CNN) -- Rioting erupted for an eighth straight night in the impoverished suburbs of Paris, with angry youths setting fire to a school, a bus depot, three warehouses and hundreds of vehicles.

Although officials said the unrest late Thursday and early Friday was less intense than in previous nights, the disturbances spread outside the Paris region for the first time.

Violence was reported in some 20 communities around Paris and across the country, including areas near Rouen in northern France, Dijon in the east and Marseille in the south.

In Dijon, teenagers torched five cars, regional official Paul Ronciere said. The youths were apparently angered by a police crackdown on drug trafficking in their neighborhood, The Associated Press reported.

Eleven more cars were set ablaze at a housing project in Salon-de-Provence near Marseille, police said.

In the Seine-Saint-Denis region to the north and east of the French capital, youths fired buckshot at riot police vehicles in Neuilly-sur-Marne, AP quoted the area's top official, Prefect Jean-Francois Cordet, as saying.

A group of 30 to 40 youths harassed police near a synagogue further east in Stains, Cordet said.

However, police reported seeing fewer large groups of youths rioting, and "contrary to the previous nights, there were fewer direct clashes with the forces of order," AP quoted Cordet as saying.

"The peak is now behind us," Gerard Gaudron, mayor of one of the worst-hit suburbs, Aulnay-sous-Bois, told France-Info radio. He said parents were determined to keep their teenagers at home to prevent unrest.

"People have had enough. People are afraid. It's time for this to stop," AP quoted Gaudron as saying.

Officials said 187 vehicles and five buildings -- including three sprawling warehouses -- were destroyed overnight in Seine-Saint-Denis, located between central Paris and Charles de Gaulle airport.

More than 400 vehicles were destroyed across the entire Paris region, including about two dozen buses at a terminal near Versailles, authorities said.

Police detained 27 people and reported two injuries -- one a policeman and another a handicapped person badly burned during an arson attack on a city bus, Reuters reported.

The latest violence flared despite the presence of about 2,000 additional police officers -- and despite hopes that festivities marking the end of Ramadan would calm tensions.

Much of the rioting has occurred in areas heavily populated by poor African Muslim immigrants and their French-born children who are weary of poverty, crime, poor education and unemployment.

The unrest has drawn attention to simmering discontent among much of France's Muslim population -- at an estimated 5 million, Western Europe's largest -- many of whom often complain of job discrimination and police harassment.

While the troubled suburbs of Paris and other French cities are often the scene of unreported car-torchings and other small-scale violence, AP reported, the current unrest is unusual in terms of its duration and the way it has spread.

The rioting began last Thursday after two teenagers of African descent -- Bouna Traore, 15, and Zyed Benna, 17 -- were accidentally electrocuted while apparently trying to escape from police by hiding in a power substation in the Paris suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois.

Officials have said police were not chasing the boys, and the Interior Ministry has released a preliminary report exonerating officers of any direct role in the deaths, according to AP.

On Friday, the brother of one of the victims called for youths to "calm down and stop ransacking everything."

"This is not how we are going to have our voices heard," Siyakah Traore said on RTL radio, AP reported.

A police union official has proposed establishing a curfew and bringing in the military to help handle the rioting, while some members of the opposition Socialist Party have suggested the police should withdraw from the communities to quell the unrest.

The pressure is on
The violence adds to the pressure on Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who cancelled a trip to Canada this week to tackle the situation and soothe a public row between his ministers over the government's response.

Vowing to restore order, de Villepin on Thursday called a series of emergency meetings with officials throughout the day, including a working lunch with Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy.

"I will not accept organized gangs making the law in some neighborhoods. I will not accept having crime networks and drug trafficking profiting from disorder," Villepin said at the Senate in between emergency meetings.

The situation has sparked a war of words between de Villepin and Sarkozy, his political rival ahead of 2007 presidential elections.

Speaking to parliament Wednesday, de Villepin demanded punishment for lawbreakers but used calmer language than that used by Sarkozy, who has been criticized for calling the protesting youths "scum."

"Let's avoid stigmatizing areas .... let's treat petty crime differently to major crime, let's fight all discrimination with firmness, and avoid confusing a disruptive minority with the vast majority of youngsters who want to integrate into society and succeed," he said.

In some areas, unemployment runs as high as 20 percent -- more than twice the national average, de Villepin told lawmakers.

On Wednesday, President Jacques Chirac called for calm, adding that "the absence of dialogue and an escalation of a lack of respect will lead to a dangerous situation."

"Zones without law cannot exist in the republic," Chirac said.

CNN's Chris Burns and Jim Bittermann contributed to this report

Copyright 2005 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.
 

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

well

the root of the problem is communautarism. 

but what ingnited these *riots* was a incident where 2 kids were running from .... something , some say the police, and got trapped INTO a electric station and got zapped. (outside paris)
i think it's kinda wierd that some people would be scared enough to run INTO such a dangerous place... i mean, i'm get chased by the police i dont jump out of the window ... i'd rather get arrested ... so it's wierd.

our minister sarkozy is not a sweet talker. he is more like a demagogue (an orator who appeals to the passions and prejudices of his audience)
and uses strong words that appeals to stupid rednecks.
and he got the suburbs mad (he was looking for that i guess...)

and all of it is being used in the political fights inside the governement (sarkozy against prime minister + president)


so.... i dunno,
appart from that there is the opening of a new Nike store on the champs elysee tonight ... ?_____?

[Surfrider]

It seems similar to racial riots that we have in the states.? I thought it might have been something bigger than one incident, a culmination of things.

[nesquick]

You can see a Video of the riots here http://www.lemonde.fr/web/vi/0,47-0@2-3226,54-705645@51-704172,0.html

[madagas]

They are Muslims who are rioting-correct? Hmmmm. Just waiting for someone to blame America.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

They are Muslims who are rioting-correct? Hmmmm. Just waiting for someone to blame America.

they might be muslim they might not be. there are chances that they are, cause thats their community. but the other poor and pissed off kids there dont have to be muslim. this for once, is not a religion fight.

the problem, and that's everywhere, is when you get people from a same origin together.
and then there are people that still continue to praise their 'origins and communuity feeling" : "im black ! i'm jew ! i'm christian! im this ! im that ! "

people need to be nothing.
and we must blend people together. i mean, look at the bronx, or any ghettos. same issue.

[madagas]

I know-believe me. America is bitterly divided. North vs South, Red state vs Blue State, black vs white, war vs anti war, poor vs rich, Christian vs Jews vs Muslims. People call themselves African-Americans and they don't have any ancestors remotely from Africa! At least, nobody in the last 400 years. It's fucked up. I was just waiting for someone to blame America because the world blames us for everything else. The problem is you can't blend people together. You can't breed a tiger and a horse. People are just animals. You have to live and let live-just respect each other's differences. It's when you try to force your agenda on someone else that the problems start. Iraq and Vietnam are a perfect example.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

I know-believe me. America is bitterly divided. North vs South, Red state vs Blue State, black vs white, war vs anti war, poor vs rich, Christian vs Jews vs Muslims. People call themselves African-Americans and they don't have any ancestors remotely from Africa! At least, nobody in the last 400 years. It's fucked up. I was just waiting for someone to blame America because the world blames us for everything else. The problem is you can't blend people together. You can't breed a tiger and a horse. People are just animals. You have to live and let live-just respect each other's differences. It's when you try to force your agenda on someone else that the problems start. Iraq and Vietnam are a perfect example.

well the difference between a black kid and a white kid is not really what separate the horse and the tiger ... ? ____?

and yes you can blend people. and stop telling them that they are special, that they are jew, or black or muslim. people are people. they're what they are by what they do, not where they come from or look like ....

[nesquick]

Paris is not only the "Champs Elys?es", The Eiffel Tower, Wine, Champagne and romantic ballads. Around Paris it's Gaza or Kaboul, even the Police, the cops, don't enter in those surbubs unless they are armed.

Video on CNN, pretty well done and explained http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/free?ch=49799&cl=156089','playerWindow','width=793,height=608,scrollbars=no'));

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Paris is not only the "Champs Elys?es", The Eiffel Tower, Wine, Champagne and romantic ballads. Around Paris it's Gaza or Kaboul, even the Police, the cops, don't enter in those surbubs unless they are armed.

Video on CNN, pretty well done and explained http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/free?ch=49799&cl=156089','playerWindow','width=793,height=608,scrollbars=no'));

.... you're a foo

and champagne is NOT from paris

[nesquick]

Right I'm a fool, finish your sentence next time...
Anyway, It's been years I've said the surbubs in paris are done, for many reasons.

[Walk]

people need to be nothing.
and we must blend people together. i mean, look at the bronx, or any ghettos. same issue.

I'm going to borrow part of an ANUS.com essay to help explain why your view is wrong. I'm a decent thinker, but not so much a writer.

"Crowdism

When one looks at life analytically, it is clear that it has many different parts which operate best in certain contexts; to think non-linearly is to understand that each has its place contributing to the whole, operating in parallel. Crowdism is the desire expressed by the greatest number of us, who have no facility for leadership and no ability to think past the direct consequences of their actions, for linearity, so that none are above or below others. It is an emotional response to the inequality of nature, and is oblivious to the fact that in nature equality is achieved through the singular beauty of life which can be experienced by all. Crowdism is a revenge impulse which wishes to destroy those who have exceptional abilities or who have risen above the crowd; it is the ultimate in-group, out-group response. Crowdists by definition do not think of long term implications to their potential actions, and thus are terrible rulers, but as they think emotionally and their thinking is limited to their own desires, they wish not to have any above themselves as they find it insulting to their generally low-self-esteem personalities. While anyone who is incapable of seeing beyond the immediate consequences (linear thinking) of their actions is an Underman, Crowdists are those who take being an Underman and make it into a political statement: tear down the superior, exalt the inferior, and we'll all be "equal." Unfortunately, emotional reactions fare poorly in the real world, as it is much more carefully constructed than some out of control cognitive dissonance resopnse, and therefore, as history shows us, Crowdism destroys every civilization where it gains predominance. However, it seems Crowdism is a part of the life span of every civilization, usually immediately preceding its demise into third-world status, because as civilizations grow their citizens take them for granted, and seek to "improve" upon a model they do not understand as they have not known struggle. Crowdism, then, is like getting fat: a result of idleness and lack of clear view of reality. Crowdism can take on any host, whether Communism or National Socialism, Greenism or Christianity. The only response to Crowdism is an insistence upon meritocracy, including of bloodlines, so that one can create a leadership caste which sequesters the detailed knowledge necessary for rulership. However, the only kind of society that can maintain such a caste is one with a rigorous ascetic tradition, and a desire to remove the excessive mediocre people who will otherwise gain a numerical majority, demand "democratic" representation and thus overrule those better suited to lead. The previous sentence is a servicable description of what has happened to the West, and why it is now in crisis."

When people get to mixed (culturally, although race is often involved, but it's the culture part that matters), they tend to begin to value the lowest common denominator. Ghettos are an unfortunate consequence of a minority group living within a larger nation, but it's better than losing one's culture and history. Ghettos are usually poor, but they allow minorities to hold onto their values. I have the Irish and Italians in mind, since I have some in my ancestry, but my family doesn't celebrate our native culture. We're middle class, but I think culture is better than new televisions and computers (this one's 4 years old and still great!)

France needs to realize that it would be best for their immigrants to live their own way as long as it doesn't interfere with French values. They're the guests in the French house, so to speak. However, imposing excessive integration (head scarf ban, etc) is where the tensions come from. Learn to live with differences, don't try and destroy them. That would fix a lot of these kinds of problems.

[Axl_owns_dexter]

When you let in large numbers of immigrants you are going to have problems.  No matter how liberal and nice you think you are (ie sweden).

 

[Rain]

They are Muslims who are rioting-correct? Hmmmm. Just waiting for someone to blame America.

Not correct at all !
And riot is a strong word .... it's not thousand of youth rebelling against the police ... it's hundreds of them burning cars in several surburbs near Paris -
The matter is the thing is spreading each night ! It's a kind of contest between these neighborhoods to know the one that will burn the most cars and schools, everything that can be in their minds related to the state.

And I agree with Watever for most of the things he just said - Nesquick, no it's not Kaboul yet

[Booker Floyd]

People call themselves African-Americans and they don't have any ancestors remotely from Africa! At least, nobody in the last 400 years.

I wasnt aware of the statute of limitations on ancestry.? Thanks for the enlightenment.?

[Drew]

And riot is a strong word .... it's not thousand of youth rebelling against the police ... it's hundreds of them burning cars in several surburbs near Paris -

Definition of the word riot:
1. [n]  a wild gathering involving excessive drinking and promiscuity
2. [n]  a public act of violence by an unruly mob
3. [n]  a joke that seems extremely funny
4. [n]  a state of disorder involving group violence
5. [v]  engage in boisterous, drunken merry-making; "They were out carousing last night"
6. [v]  take part in a riot; disturb the public peace by engaging in a riot; "Students were rioting everywhere in 1968"

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/search.aspx?define=riot

Rain, strong word or not, it is what it is. It's a riot.

[Jessica]

well

the root of the problem is communautarism. 

but what ingnited these *riots* was a incident where 2 kids were running from .... something , some say the police, and got trapped INTO a electric station and got zapped. (outside paris)
i think it's kinda wierd that some people would be scared enough to run INTO such a dangerous place... i mean, i'm get chased by the police i dont jump out of the window ... i'd rather get arrested ... so it's wierd.

Maybe they wanted a KFC ?

[Jessica]

Whateva, you remind me of Alex, my brother, so much...That exact same type of funny dry sense of humor i admire in him so much...

You make me think of him every time i read you.

Sorry, had to tell you.

[nesquick]

Ok, it seems tonight that some Islamic organizations are behind some of those riots (ohh...what a surprise...). It's still unclear though. The?French newspapers start to reveal it. But if it's true it doesn't surprise me at all. I saw everything, I predicted everything when I saw with my own eyes the surbubs reaction during the 2nd Intifada a couple of years ago. I know every possibility is possible, including kamikaze bombing actions from people in those surbubs in the future. One day, it will happen. Their only goal is to destruct, more than having a job. It's like a competition between riotrs, who's going to burn more cars, schools than the others.  French Kamikaze comming from the immigration, like in London last summer. The Islamism is taking the role of the French state, with social and financial helps. Their influnce is growing and growing day after day. Hopefully they are observed by the french Intelligence services, one of the best in the world.

Riots still continues as we speak now, including burning schools, supermarkets, small businesses, restaurants, bar etc... The help of the Army is a possibility, if it continues.

The french population is fed-up.

They talk about a vaste "Marshall Plan" to save the surbubs, with an help of? 25 billion Euros (about 30 billion Dollars).

[Sterlingdog]

Riots still continues as we speak now, including burning schools, supermarkets, small businesses, restaurants, bar etc... The help of the Army is a possibility, if it continues.

I was just reading about this, the article I read said the riots were spreading out of the poor areas to the more quiet suburbs.  I hope no one has friends or family in any danger.

Why isn't the army there yet?  It doesn't sound like its going to stop without major force.