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Author Topic: Chinese Democracy.....with no warning????  (Read 10035 times)
Falcon
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« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2005, 04:38:57 PM »


Axl is recognized as one of the few artists around possibly able to create an album that can be considered one of the greatest ever.


Who in fact recognizes Axl in this manner?

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« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2005, 05:13:33 PM »


Axl is recognized as one of the few artists around possibly able to create an album that can be considered one of the greatest ever.



GNR might have been recognized this way but definitly not Axl. Unless you consider OMG a masterpiece.

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Neemo
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« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2005, 08:19:16 AM »

What I'm after is that the effects of the promotion do not start from scratch but from a much more advantageous position where old fans & album buyers can be "resurrected" at relatively small cost.

But moreover I'm for the large-scale promotion from the supposed expensiveness of the album. That money is now a sunk cost and thus irrelevant. However, if some party has chosen to put their money in Axl's project they probably want the best possible return. And since they are (or should be) informed about the quality of the product (I assume it's great) it is a no-brainer to pour in more cash for marketing purposes because every dollar is very likely to come back in far greater amount. Very much unlike the funds consumed by the recording process which are engulfed in uncertainty. Not contributing to the promotion budget would be a financial suicide. Or at least a financial shot in the leg. Your own, that is.

Again I think that we won't see much promotion before the album is released.

A press release
A Single
Internet Pre-Order
A few ads in Circus (is that mag still around? nervous ), Guitar World & Rolling Stone. (and like Mags)

In that order. Starting about 4-6 weeks before the release date.

After the Album drops, we'll get a Video, Late Night Appearances, Music Awards appearances, Radio Interviews, Tour, maybe TV commercials, posters, Merch, rereleases (ala Contraband), etc. etc. to the Record Companies content.

They are at least gonna wait til it drops and sells a few copies hihi (understatment of the year) so they recoup the cost for "free" before they start sinking more money in to the Chinese Democracy project again.

Didn't quite get my point, did ya?

Nope, enlighten me.

I guess you could explain it by saying the GNR brand is "more effective". They have longevity, brand loyalty and volume all established in such a short period of time it's almost unheard of. All the other bands have had the benefit of being active through out the years. I won't touch the Beatles though...? Wink

Umm, ok Undecided

You are contradicting yourself like crazy. GnR is one of the hugest brands around and has amazing potential. but they need to promote the shit out of it to make it sell huge?

One question. where is all the promotion since 2002 that has made GnR's current "success" and revival? (Cuz before 2002 GnR was virtually no existant to the public)

I have a good idea, but not everyone will like it. The 2002 VMA's, GnR's doomed 2002 tour, behind the Music, the releases of GH and Contraband and VR's world tour. (S&D have contributed to the majority of the "revival" IMO) That's why GnR is "popular" right now. It's not promotion of the GnR brand, it's having stuff available. With the release of a new album it'll just get crazier, with the album out people will hear songs, via MTV, VH1 Radio, see stuff in stores, then the buzz can start.

As younggunner has said countless times "it all starts with the album being released, everything will fall into place afterwards" (Not exact words but close enough, that's my opinion too ok )


I'm not expecting CD to "change the world". And I have never said that.

"Axl is recognized as one of the few artists around possibly able to create an album that can be considered one of the greatest ever."

so you are saying the "greatest album ever" won't change the world?

No. I'm not saying that. The greatest album ever will change the world no matter what.? peace

Hmmm, so CD may or may not be the GREATEST ALBUM EVER. But you don't expect it to change the world? But you expect the greatest album ever to change the world. Does that sum up your thinking? confused
« Last Edit: November 03, 2005, 12:03:09 PM by Neemo » Logged

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« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2005, 08:55:24 AM »

Promotion is 30% of your success. The music is 50%, and the look/image is 20%.
Promotion + look/image are as important as the music itself.

With a weak promotion and a bad image (especially BH and Finck), exactly what we had in 2002, it leads to failure. A band like GN'R can't survive with just 50% of its potencial.

Today sadly, that is so true. I would even say music 20%, looks 40%, and promotion 40%. But we are talking about a GNR record here and not some Britny faking Spirs double, so the promotion and especially looks shouldn`t be of major importance. In my opinion the only promotion that CD really needs is a long long world tour without any Axl screwups.
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« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2005, 01:22:57 PM »



Again I think that we won't see much promotion before the album is released.

A press release
A Single
Internet Pre-Order
A few ads in Circus (is that mag still around? nervous ), Guitar World & Rolling Stone. (and like Mags)

In that order. Starting about 4-6 weeks before the release date.

After the Album drops, we'll get a Video, Late Night Appearances, Music Awards appearances, Radio Interviews, Tour, maybe TV commercials, posters, Merch, rereleases (ala Contraband), etc. etc. to the Record Companies content.

They are at least gonna wait til it drops and sells a few copies hihi (understatment of the year) so they recoup the cost for "free" before they start sinking more money in to the Chinese Democracy project again.

Fine. I'm just expressing my views on the matter. Not like I'm saying "This is how it'll be for sure!".


Umm, ok Undecided

You are contradicting yourself like crazy. GnR is one of the hugest brands around and has amazing potential. but they need to promote the shit out of it to make it sell huge?

You have some serious text comprehension issues. I never said they need to promote it. I'm just saying they should and even tried to motivate my view.

As far as the brand is concerned, I'm saying that during its peak it was one of the strongest no doubt. But what's more important is that it is still strong enough to sell records like GH without much promotion. S&D do deserve their share of credit for that, but still. The fact that with nonexistent official promotion GH sold so well is proof of the strength of the GNR name. The fact that they've been inactive most of past 11 years only emphasizes that fact. The band names you see nowdays in roatation and recognize well have most likely huge marketing budgets behind them to achieve that. It's not the brand/music that's mostly responsible for attracting buyers. It's the heavy promotion.

GNR on the other hand can achieve the same level without much promotion. However, to achieve the sales/level of success the music deserves (compared to the crap on charts nowdays) it is my opinion that the promotion should be equally heavy. The music alone won't carry far these days (sad bu true  crying), but great music with decent promotion should be enough to get GNR to the statue it deserves.

One question. where is all the promotion since 2002 that has made GnR's current "success" and revival? (Cuz before 2002 GnR was virtually no existant to the public)

I have a good idea, but not everyone will like it. The 2002 VMA's, GnR's doomed 2002 tour, behind the Music, the releases of GH and Contraband and VR's world tour. (S&D have contributed to the majority of the "revival" IMO) That's why GnR is "popular" right now. It's not promotion of the GnR brand, it's having stuff available. With the release of a new album it'll just get crazier, with the album out people will hear songs, via MTV, VH1 Radio, see stuff in stores, then the buzz can start.

As younggunner has said countless times "it all starts with the album being released, everything will fall into place afterwards" (Not exact words but close enough, that's my opinion too ok )

Main reason for GNR's popularity is their accomplishments back in the day. That established GNR as a household name. That is why S&D can be in the spolight with VR.

The GNR name never went away. Unlike many other bands whose key artists couldn't sell any records old or new to save their lives, GNR needs only to remind the audiences of their existence.

Besides, with bands, you don't promote the brand. You always promote a product. There's never ads to make people go "Oh yeah, there is a band called Metallica!" It's always "St. Anger, in stores now! Get it!". Within almost any other industry it is possible to just advertise the general brand instead of a specific product.

A strong brand is a sideproduct of pretty much everything the band does. IMO it's pretty much a game of luck how a band's name will be regarded in the future. That is, even after some great releases.


I'm not expecting CD to "change the world". And I have never said that.

"Axl is recognized as one of the few artists around possibly able to create an album that can be considered one of the greatest ever."

so you are saying the "greatest album ever" won't change the world?

No. I'm not saying that. The greatest album ever will change the world no matter what.  peace

Hmmm, so CD may or may not be the GREATEST ALBUM EVER. But you don't expect it to change the world? But you expect the greatest album ever to change the world. Does that sum up your thinking? confused

You're starting to catch on, but there's still the text comprehension thingie making it difficult.

I've never said CD will/might be the greatest album ever. I was talking about Axl's talent. Even then I only said that he might create ONE of the greatest albums ever.

And what comes to the greatest album ever...

I don't know which album/albums you consider the greatest ever, but I'm puzzled if you don't think that/those has/have changed the world at least by some noticable amount.

Should CD reach similar status in the masses minds, it will change the world. I don't think it will 'cause I don't think it'll be one of the greatest ever. However, I do think that it is possible because it's Uncle Axl in the driver's seat.
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Neemo
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« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2005, 02:01:43 PM »

Fine. I'm just expressing my views on the matter. Not like I'm saying "This is how it'll be for sure!".

I know that dude just having a debate with you beer

(btw you haven't yet said what kinda promotion you think it'll get, just that it'll be "heavy") peace

You have some serious text comprehension issues. I never said they need to promote it. I'm just saying they should and even tried to motivate my view.

Besides, with bands, you don't promote the brand. You always promote a product. There's never ads to make people go "Oh yeah, there is a band called Metallica!" It's always "St. Anger, in stores now! Get it!". Within almost any other industry it is possible to just advertise the general brand instead of a specific product.

See I don't think you get what I'm saying. See the bold in your qoute above "In Stores NOW!!!" promoted after the release. I agree they will promote it. But very little up until the release. That's all

I don't know which album/albums you consider the greatest ever, but I'm puzzled if you don't think that/those has/have changed the world at least by some noticable amount.

Should CD reach similar status in the masses minds, it will change the world. I don't think it will 'cause I don't think it'll be one of the greatest ever. However, I do think that it is possible because it's Uncle Axl in the driver's seat.

WHatever I think is great or shitty has nothing to do with this discussion, yet it has everything to do with it. Just Cuz i think an album is fantastic doesn't mean you will.  I think it's very possible for CD to be a good album (else i wouldn't be here Cheesy ), but to anticipate one of the greatest ever.... You're just setting yourself up for dissapointment dude. Ya gotta go into stuff with an open mind. You can't say "this will be one of the greatest album's i've ever heard." because there is no room for error. Ya know where I'm comin' from yet? Axl is my Favorite singer from "back in the day" but will this album Kick ass? I'm gonna reserve Judgement until I've heard it. Not say it'll be great when i have know idea what it's gonna be all about.
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