This section

[MadmanDan]

Jarmo I think a politics section would bring more and more people calling names, politics always turn the dark side to any of us, it shouldn't be done, at least if you ask me.?

Someone makes an insult ( a bad one, not "you're an idiot") - he gets a warning...he does it again - he gets banned....simple as that

[Skeba]

There's no point in that. It shouldn't be like a kindergarden where people need to be watched constantly. And where would one draw the line, what is a _bad_ insult. It should come from people wanting to discuss topics with other people.

[Gunner80]

I think if people want to discuss politics they should go to a political forum.   

[Axls Locomotive]

it would be a good idea to restrict these political threads as much as possible...it gets out of control far too much...

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

it would be a good idea to restrict these political threads as much as possible...it gets out of control far too much...

you're such a fucki^H^H^Hfreakin' leftie ! gosh ! i hate you ! ?____?

i say we can declare Political debate days, like on sundays, cause we're bored.

[Axls Locomotive]

it would be a good idea to restrict these political threads as much as possible...it gets out of control far too much...

you're such a fucki^H^H^Hfreakin' leftie ! gosh ! i hate you ! ?____?

i say we can declare Political debate days, like on sundays, cause we're bored.

any more of that and ill get my pet wookie to rip all the plugs off of your electronic equipment (insert wookie icon here)

bring back love and eternal joy to this forum 

[sandman]

these threads are boring anymore.

in part because many good thinkers stay away from these threads.

they have turned into mindless, hate-filled discussions that are usually off topic.

and SOME people just insult anyone who doesn't agree with them. 

[conny]

The problem is not certain people, but what the current situation (politics, ethics...) is bringing out of certain people.

Times are getting harder, worse and more extreme - and that has an impact on the people. You see that in the society, and on this board wich is only reflecting a part of that very society.

If you want to solve the problem from the root, you'd have to forbid political discussion of any kind, since there is always the risk of it bringing out emotional comments.

I see no sense in desperately trying to keep up the "political correct" way of an objective and rational discussion, since that PC-like objectivity and rationality is what lead to the very problems we have (not the board, but the WORLD). PC is killing freedom of speech, and PC is self-censorship of the worst kind, the censorship of toughts and that leads to a constant subtile frustration ultimately consequenting in anger, hate and agression.

Example: Someone thinks gay people are a disgrace to the human race and should not be allowed to marry or adopt children. That is not PC. So if he wants to say what he thinks, then he has to take the risk of hurting people's feelings and being considered a narrow-minded conservative. So what does he do, if he want to speak out? What options does he have? Start a fight or shut up. These are the only options left for him due to PC - and THAT is the problem. The result is what Jarmo is complainging about - discussion culture going down. But you have to see BOTH sides.

However, I understand and respect Jarmo's point, I just don't understand why some people have to be so jackass and all. You can say anything you want, sometimes you just have to be a bit more picky about the words you choose to say it with. Regardless, you can still say the same thing and mean it. Some people can't and have yet to learn that, and maybe these are the people who make trouble.

But I think it's wrong to point the finger. If politics and ethics are what people want to discuss, then so be it and then let them discuss regardless of who's the bigger jackass. Or set up a "No politcs" rule and that's that.

THE JUNGLE turning from "Paris Hilton's Cell Phone" kind of gossip and nonsense topics into mostly talks about politics and ethics says a lot about what's REALLY on people's mind - aside from their fav band.

2 cents shared, to whom it may concern...

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

no name calling should fix all that. if we don't name people (i say people on the board) then we'll haev to stay and talk about the topic.

and maybe restrict politics to 1 or 2 days in the week. like wednesay, day of the kids, and sunday, day of the lord

[jarmo]

I see no sense in desperately trying to keep up the "political correct" way of an objective and rational discussion, since that PC-like objectivity and rationality is what lead to the very problems we have (not the board, but the WORLD). PC is killing freedom of speech, and PC is self-censorship of the worst kind, the censorship of toughts and that leads to a constant subtile frustration ultimately consequenting in anger, hate and agression.

As far as I know, having respect for other people doesn't mean you have to be "politically correct".

When you start judging people based on their gender, faith, sexual orientation, skin color and so on, then you don't exactly show respect to those people.


Freedom of speech doesn't work here. I have no plans on making this place a recruitment base for white power nutcases, religious fanatics or other extremists.




/jarmo

[Rain]

I see no sense in desperately trying to keep up the "political correct" way of an objective and rational discussion, since that PC-like objectivity and rationality is what lead to the very problems we have (not the board, but the WORLD). PC is killing freedom of speech, and PC is self-censorship of the worst kind, the censorship of toughts and that leads to a constant subtile frustration ultimately consequenting in anger, hate and agression.

As far as I know, having respect for other people doesn't mean you have to be "politically correct".

When you start judging people based on their gender, faith, sexual orientation, skin color and so on, then you don't exactly show respect to those people.


Freedom of speech doesn't work here. I have no plans on making this place a recruitment base for white power nutcases, religious fanatics or other extremists.




/jarmo

A kind of "European freedom of speech" thing ! I'm actually pro-this-rule ! 

[Will]

this would clean the fights. i rarely refer to a person in name, i always try to stay general.

so ....

Because you rarely refer to a person in name, I think everything's gonna be alright!

Seriously, most people don't act like that and that's why this section has changed so much.

I personnally wouldn't care one bit if we couldn't have +20 page threads of political debates here, because I come on the internet to relax, not necessarily to talk politics, and if I choose to do so I will go on a political board. This is a Guns N' Roses/ music oriented board, there's a whole difference here. And I don't come here to read a certain group of people and/ or countries suck because of this and that. I think we see enough shit on TV, I wouldn't mind not seeing similar crap here.

Just my two cents.

[conny]

As far as I know, having respect for other people doesn't mean you have to be "politically correct".

When you start judging people based on their gender, faith, sexual orientation, skin color and so on, then you don't exactly show respect to those people.


/jarmo

Imagine your scenario: a chinese person enters the room you are in and you just can't help it, you hate chinese people. So what do you do? Showing fake respect would mean you are lying to yourself, speaking out would mean confrontation, swallowing it down and shutting up would lead to agression and leaving would mean your "enemy" wins because you are censoring yourself to not cause trouble and avoid confrontation.

Now the host comes in: "Take it easy, people - or leave." To you who hates chinese, this looks like the host is being protective - of a minority or majority, it doesn't matter, because he is only doing what you do, he is taking sides and speaking out. Know what I mean? It has nothing to do with respect, it's a bit more complex than that. If you wanna be a good host, you have to be a good host to EVERYONE, or else just ban who and what you don't want here instead of discussing issues you don't want to discuss. But once you come up with a liberal and open minded approach, then be consequent and do it 100% - or else you are not better than those you oppose.

[MadmanDan]

People shoud attack the idea, not the person.

Saying "that is completly retarded" is much better than "you are completly retarded"

[pilferk]

Imagine your scenario: a chinese person enters the room you are in and you just can't help it, you hate chinese people. So what do you do? Showing fake respect would mean you are lying to yourself, speaking out would mean confrontation, swallowing it down and shutting up would lead to agression and leaving would mean your "enemy" wins because you are censoring yourself to not cause trouble and avoid confrontation.

Now the host comes in: "Take it easy, people - or leave." To you who hates chinese, this looks like the host is being protective - of a minority or majority, it doesn't matter, because he is only doing what you do, he is taking sides and speaking out. Know what I mean? It has nothing to do with respect, it's a bit more complex than that. If you wanna be a good host, you have to be a good host to EVERYONE, or else just ban who and what you don't want here instead of discussing issues you don't want to discuss. But once you come up with a liberal and open minded approach, then be consequent and do it 100% - or else you are not better than those you oppose.

I disagree.? It's still about showing respect...in your case, respect to your host.? They have invited the BOTH of you to "the party", BOTH of you into their home.? You either accept the invitation and respect your host by not being confrontational and agressive, or you leave the party and go elsewhere.

And that is the best possible analogy to this situation.? jarmo's yard, jarmo's rules.? If you don't like them or feel they are unfair, or that they are unfairly applied, say your piece and go find another place to play.? Break his rules, and expect to be "univited" from his yard.

It's really that simple.

[MCT]

I dunno...

I'd just be interested in seeing whether or not this thread works out before any sort of drastic action is taken.

That said, is there any real need for a major change? Hard to say. But I can say that banning politics or creating a solely political section aren't great ideas. The former being unrealistic and the latter being an accident waiting to happen; i.e. same shit different pile that would end up being a waste of time for everyone involved in the administration of said section as things wouldn't change all that much due to current political realities in the world at large being archetypically espoused by our more politically vocal members.

You know I've always been an open advocate of the status quo here on our board, advertising my belief that the system has always worked fairly smoothly and hence shouldn't be exceedingly fucked with. Now, we do have a bit of problem here, no doubt. But does it warrant major change? I think Jarmo you have to ask yourself that question over and over and over...

Because if you decide to institute something radical then you're fucking with a very good system (for what it is) that's tried and fucking true...

Perhaps something slight and within the confines of what we've already got is the answer...

[lynn1961]

Imagine your scenario: a chinese person enters the room you are in and you just can't help it, you hate chinese people. So what do you do? Showing fake respect would mean you are lying to yourself, speaking out would mean confrontation, swallowing it down and shutting up would lead to agression and leaving would mean your "enemy" wins because you are censoring yourself to not cause trouble and avoid confrontation.

Now the host comes in: "Take it easy, people - or leave." To you who hates chinese, this looks like the host is being protective - of a minority or majority, it doesn't matter, because he is only doing what you do, he is taking sides and speaking out. Know what I mean? It has nothing to do with respect, it's a bit more complex than that. If you wanna be a good host, you have to be a good host to EVERYONE, or else just ban who and what you don't want here instead of discussing issues you don't want to discuss. But once you come up with a liberal and open minded approach, then be consequent and do it 100% - or else you are not better than those you oppose.

I disagree.? It's still about showing respect...in your case, respect to your host.? They have invited the BOTH of you to "the party", BOTH of you into their home.? You either accept the invitation and respect your host by not being confrontational and agressive, or you leave the party and go elsewhere.

And that is the best possible analogy to this situation.? jarmo's yard, jarmo's rules.? If you don't like them or feel they are unfair, or that they are unfairly applied, say your piece and go find another place to play.? Break his rules, and expect to be "univited" from his yard.

It's really that simple.

Very well said, pilferk. 

From conny, "a chinese person enters the room you are in and you just can't help it, you hate chinese people"...I think this statement says it all in regard to what is being talked about here. 

[Slipdisc]

Imagine your scenario: a chinese person enters the room you are in and you just can't help it, you hate chinese people. So what do you do? Showing fake respect would mean you are lying to yourself, speaking out would mean confrontation, swallowing it down and shutting up would lead to agression and leaving would mean your "enemy" wins because you are censoring yourself to not cause trouble and avoid confrontation.

That's the most ignorant thing I've ever heard....

I immediately see why you haven't got anything constructive to say concerning racial issues.

"You just can't help it, you hate Chinese people" ? ?

There's so much wrong with that sentence that I'm worried for Jarmo getting bandwith problems, if I would want to speak my mind about it in my usual style, OMFG.....

-PEACE-

[jarmo]

Imagine your scenario: a chinese person enters the room you are in and you just can't help it, you hate chinese people. So what do you do? Showing fake respect would mean you are lying to yourself, speaking out would mean confrontation, swallowing it down and shutting up would lead to agression and leaving would mean your "enemy" wins because you are censoring yourself to not cause trouble and avoid confrontation.

I've said it many times before, if you feel like a place where everybody is welcome doesn't sound like a good idea, then this isn't the place for you.

If you think the fact that we welcome anybody (even people who you consider freaks or less worth than yourself) is a bad thing, leave!


I don't understand your example. I'm not gonna be a good host to people who promote hate and anger towards other people because they have a different gender, skin color etc. I can't teach them that what they do is wrong. I can tell them they and their message isn't welcome or accepted here.


/jarmo

[Charity Case]

popmetal got banned? ?hmm...

I've been away from the board for a while so this is news to me. ?Can someone post the thread where he stepped over the line?

IMO, I think you shouldn't ban political threads or change the Jungle at all. ?Just set your rules and make sure people abide by them. ?If you don't want name calling, then say so and punish people that do it. ?That means you punish the left and the right. ?It may mean banning SLC or some others that are left, but it should be fair to both sides. ?You have in the past allowed alot more name calling from the left than you have allowed from th right. ?I know you are a liberal, but IMO that should not play into how you moderator your board. ?Of course that's just my opinion and you are free to moderate however you feel like it.

I think you need to understand that politics by nature is a heated topic. ?Most political discussions where you have strong opinion on both sides will get heated from time to time. ?I think that maybe political threads require more attention from moderators than threads about paris hilton, but to remove the threads would be to cut a big part of this forum out.

I may be speaking only for myself, but without the Jungle section (political threads in particular), there isn't much on this forum to read or take part in. ?I mean the GNR section will be fun when GNR actually resurfaces, but for the time being it lacks any kind of interest whatsoever.

Just my thoughts.