Hillary Clinton attacked by Cindy Sheehan

[D]

I think this woman is getting way too much coverage on the media. I get it, she lost a son, and it's bad, and she feels that she needs to go demonstrating against the war. But she's "just" a mother, with no experience on the bigger scenario, how leaving now would effect everything. Something has to be learnt from this for future (one would've thought that would've been done about 40 years ago) , but you can't fix what's already been done.

I think, that at this point setting a 'set-in-stone-date' for withdrawl would be idiotic and dangerous. The Bush administration fucked up big time on Iraq, but it has to see this thing through, or it could be even a bigger of a disaster than it already is. Now they're involved. They have a responsibility. They can't just say "whoops, we fucked, up, our bad.. good bye". I think the only thing that could top this mistake-after-mistake-scenario would be to leave now and leave the country in total chaos.

Having said that. More effort should be put to having a solid exit strategy. There will be a point after which the US will have to leave, and trust that Iraq will be able to take care of itself. It's a fucked up situation with no obvious answers.

Great Post Skeba, I am not articulate sometimes but this is essentially what I was tryin to say.

Let me get this straight Dick Nixon, Cindy Sheehan's son going to war, getting out of the war and being free but yet Re enlisting and volunteering to go back is somehow Bush's fault?

How was he being lied to if he volunteered to go back?

Someone explain that to me.

Bush fucked up going to war, but lets dont all sit here and act like it was Bush alone who felt the need to go to war.

Its easy to live in hindsight SLC and shoulda,woulda,coulda, but u cant do that.

the majority felt Something had to be done about Sadaam, post 9/11 made it impossible to put up with his stalling and his bullshit.

Once he was removed they were locked into Iraq for the long haul to get that country on their feet.

Bush now, however is fucked, cause either he stays and American lives are lost, or he leaves and innocent Iraqi's by the millions are lost.


I find it repulsive that u all support the mass slaughter of innocent human beings in Iraq. and support a country goin to Civil War and mass chaos.

[POPmetal]

I agree. If the US left, it will result in a civil war.

Gun battle sees Iraq near civil war
Fri 28 Oct 2005

GETHIN CHAMBERLAIN
CHIEF NEWS CORRESPONDENT

THE conflict in Iraq took another significant step in the direction of civil war yesterday when rival Sunni and Shiite militias fought a gun battle outside Baghdad in which 15 people were killed.

The fighting broke out after Sunni insurgents kidnapped a member of militant Shiite cleric Muqtadr al Sadr's Mahdi Army.

The kidnapped man's colleagues then mounted a raid on a house in Nahrawan, 15 miles south-east of Baghdad, freeing him and snatching two of the Sunni insurgents.

But Amer al-Husseini, an aide to Mr Sadr, said they were ambushed on their way out of the town.

Falah al-Mohammadawi, a police major, said the 15 deaths included 14 Madhi Army members and a policeman.

The incident underscores tensions among hard-line elements in Iraq's rival religious and ethnic communities at a time when the United States is struggling to promote a political process seen as key to calming the insurgency.

Yesterday's gun battle appears to have been the first such clash between Sunni and Shiite militias. Earlier this week, Sunni insurgents mounted attacks on Kurdish targets in northern Iraq.

The significance of the clashes is not yet clear. There have been previous warnings of a slide towards civil war, but the majority of Iraqis have so far kept faith with the democratic process, despite scepticism and outright opposition to the new constitution among Sunnis.

Most Sunnis opposed the constitution, fearing it could lead to the break-up of the country into semi-autonomous regions favouring rival Kurds and majority Shiites. Sunni Arabs also largely boycotted the January parliamentary election, enabling the Shiites and Kurds to win an overwhelming majority and shape the constitution.

US officials see Sunni participation in campaigning for the 15 December election as a hopeful sign that more members of the community will forsake the insurgency, enabling the US-led coalition to begin drawing down its forces next year.

But even as Sunni groups are coming together, the Shiite United Iraqi Alliance, which swept most of the parliament seats in January, appears to be fraying.

Iraq's leading Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, has decided not to endorse the Shiite coalition which ran under his banner in January, according to sources on both sides.

Close associates said Mr Sistani's decision reflected his disappointment with prime minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari's Shiite-led government.

Six Iraqis died and 12 were wounded in other attacks yesterday and the US military command said three US soldiers had died in separate attacks the day before.

In Baghdad, a suicide attacker rammed his car into a US military convoy in Karradah, killing one Iraqi passer-by and wounding nine.

In Dora, one of the capital's most violent areas, a drive-by shooting by insurgents killed a policeman. A similar attack killed a pedestrian in central Baghdad.

In Kirkuk , 180 miles north of the capital, a police officer died after a drive-by shooting, and two bomb attacks aimed at police patrols killed one and wounded six. In Fallujah, insurgents fired a mortar round at the Iraqi army headquarters, leading soldiers to return fire randomly and hit a nearby car carrying three teachers to a school, killing one of them.

On Wednesday, US aircraft destroyed more militant safe houses near the Syrian border, and apparently killed a senior al-Qaeda in Iraq figure who was using religious courts to try Iraqis who supported coalition forces.
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2155582005
---------------------



If the US abandons Iraq, it would be a betrayal to the majority of Iraqis who want to see the political process succeed, and it would pave the way for the insurgency to to nudge the situation from "near" civil war into a full blown civil war.

[RichardNixon]

I think this woman is getting way too much coverage on the media. I get it, she lost a son, and it's bad, and she feels that she needs to go demonstrating against the war. But she's "just" a mother, with no experience on the bigger scenario, how leaving now would effect everything. Something has to be learnt from this for future (one would've thought that would've been done about 40 years ago) , but you can't fix what's already been done.

I think, that at this point setting a 'set-in-stone-date' for withdrawl would be idiotic and dangerous. The Bush administration fucked up big time on Iraq, but it has to see this thing through, or it could be even a bigger of a disaster than it already is. Now they're involved. They have a responsibility. They can't just say "whoops, we fucked, up, our bad.. good bye". I think the only thing that could top this mistake-after-mistake-scenario would be to leave now and leave the country in total chaos.

Having said that. More effort should be put to having a solid exit strategy. There will be a point after which the US will have to leave, and trust that Iraq will be able to take care of itself. It's a fucked up situation with no obvious answers.

Great Post Skeba, I am not articulate sometimes but this is essentially what I was tryin to say.

Let me get this straight Dick Nixon, Cindy Sheehan's son going to war, getting out of the war and being free but yet Re enlisting and volunteering to go back is somehow Bush's fault?

How was he being lied to if he volunteered to go back?

Someone explain that to me.

Bush fucked up going to war, but lets dont all sit here and act like it was Bush alone who felt the need to go to war.

Its easy to live in hindsight SLC and shoulda,woulda,coulda, but u cant do that.

the majority felt Something had to be done about Sadaam, post 9/11 made it impossible to put up with his stalling and his bullshit.

Once he was removed they were locked into Iraq for the long haul to get that country on their feet.

Bush now, however is fucked, cause either he stays and American lives are lost, or he leaves and innocent Iraqi's by the millions are lost.


I find it repulsive that u all support the mass slaughter of innocent human beings in Iraq. and support a country goin to Civil War and mass chaos.

On the news I was watching some new recruits at boot camp the other week. They were saying (paraphrasing) ?After 911, everything changed. I need to do this. I love the country. We need to go into Iraq and spread democracy, because after 911??

These are great kids, don?t get me wrong, but they are incredibly naive. Most of the soldiers fighting in Iraq have been brainwashed by the military, the media, and of course, by Bush.

[Skeba]

It is sad that they see everything that's happening now, as a direct result of 9/11. It's really astonishing to see how strongly the propaganda machine has tied what happened in New York, a hunt to get Osama, to the target not being Osama, but to take down Saddam, and to get the alleged WMDs.

[Guns N RockMusic]

On the news I was watching some new recruits at boot camp the other week. They were saying (paraphrasing) ?After 911, everything changed. I need to do this. I love the country. We need to go into Iraq and spread democracy, because after 911??

These are great kids, don?t get me wrong, but they are incredibly naive. Most of the soldiers fighting in Iraq have been brainwashed by the military, the media, and of course, by Bush.

Of course, anyone who doesn't agree with you is braniwashed.? This always amazes me about the left.? When soldiers support the war that THEY are actually fighting, they must be brainwashed.? Did any of you ever think that maybe just maybe they believe in what they're doing and have the mental makeup and desire to do something hard rather than goto anti-war rallies and preach parasitic, communist ideals.? If someone is youngand liberal, they're enlightened but if they're young and a soldier they're brainwashed.? In essence what you're really saying is that these soldiers are fucking morons who can't think for themselves and need your guidance on what to do.? Here's a little tip, these brainwashed soldiers have a better idea and grasp of the real world than 90% of the members here.

[D]

On the news I was watching some new recruits at boot camp the other week. They were saying (paraphrasing) ?After 911, everything changed. I need to do this. I love the country. We need to go into Iraq and spread democracy, because after 911??

These are great kids, don?t get me wrong, but they are incredibly naive. Most of the soldiers fighting in Iraq have been brainwashed by the military, the media, and of course, by Bush.

Of course, anyone who doesn't agree with you is braniwashed.? This always amazes me about the left.? When soldiers support the war that THEY are actually fighting, they must be brainwashed.? Did any of you ever think that maybe just maybe they believe in what they're doing and have the mental makeup and desire to do something hard rather than goto anti-war rallies and preach parasitic, communist ideals.? If someone is you and liberal, they're enlightened but if they're young and a soldier they're brainwashed.? In essence what you're really saying is that these soldiers are fucking morons who can't think for themselves and need your guidance on what to do.? Here's a little tip, these brainwashed soldiers have a better idea and grasp of the real world than 90% of the members here.

Great Post, Again, Opinions arent facts.

I use to be a die hard left winger but to be honest left wingers have turned me off because most I have encountered are too one sided for my taste.

I just find that extreme left wingers and extreme right wingers believe that there opinions are fact and are the only possible opinions and if u dont agree u are an idiot.

This is the main thing wrong with this country.

Me personally, I dont give a fuck if u are left or right, I just wanna hear your ideas and then judge them based on that.

We gotta get out of this Nut Job Leftwing/rightwing shit cause it just hurts everything.


The soldiers know what they are doing, and most would sign up and do it again if they had the option.

I dont understand why Left Wingers have such a hard time realizing that not everyone disagrees with the war.

[RichardNixon]

On the news I was watching some new recruits at boot camp the other week. They were saying (paraphrasing) ?After 911, everything changed. I need to do this. I love the country. We need to go into Iraq and spread democracy, because after 911??

These are great kids, don?t get me wrong, but they are incredibly naive. Most of the soldiers fighting in Iraq have been brainwashed by the military, the media, and of course, by Bush.

Of course, anyone who doesn't agree with you is braniwashed.? This always amazes me about the left.? When soldiers support the war that THEY are actually fighting, they must be brainwashed.? Did any of you ever think that maybe just maybe they believe in what they're doing and have the mental makeup and desire to do something hard rather than goto anti-war rallies and preach parasitic, communist ideals.? If someone is youngand liberal, they're enlightened but if they're young and a soldier they're brainwashed.? In essence what you're really saying is that these soldiers are fucking morons who can't think for themselves and need your guidance on what to do.? Here's a little tip, these brainwashed soldiers have a better idea and grasp of the real world than 90% of the members here.

Yes they are brainwashed. There aren?t two sides to everything. Some times one side is on the right. You could have said in 1939 that the German soldiers are "fighting for what they believe in??

They are brainwashed because when they talk about why they are fighting the war in Iraq they bring up 911. And I don?t know how many times this has to be said: IRAQ WAS NOT BEHIND 911!!!!!!

The whole pretext for was WMD. THERE WAS NO WMD FOUND!

So you see, those good men and women who are getting shot at are brainwashed if they think this war was necessary.

As for your comment about every one against the war ?preaching parasitic, communist ideals,? you are really grasping at straws and obviously have no idea about what the anti-war movement is like.? That's just a method right-wing, armchair generals employ, with that kind of name calling.

[POPmetal]

I think this woman is getting way too much coverage on the media. I get it, she lost a son, and it's bad, and she feels that she needs to go demonstrating against the war. But she's "just" a mother, with no experience on the bigger scenario, how leaving now would effect everything. Something has to be learnt from this for future (one would've thought that would've been done about 40 years ago) , but you can't fix what's already been done.

I think, that at this point setting a 'set-in-stone-date' for withdrawl would be idiotic and dangerous. The Bush administration fucked up big time on Iraq, but it has to see this thing through, or it could be even a bigger of a disaster than it already is. Now they're involved. They have a responsibility. They can't just say "whoops, we fucked, up, our bad.. good bye". I think the only thing that could top this mistake-after-mistake-scenario would be to leave now and leave the country in total chaos.

Having said that. More effort should be put to having a solid exit strategy. There will be a point after which the US will have to leave, and trust that Iraq will be able to take care of itself. It's a fucked up situation with no obvious answers.

Great Post Skeba, I am not articulate sometimes but this is essentially what I was tryin to say.

Let me get this straight Dick Nixon, Cindy Sheehan's son going to war, getting out of the war and being free but yet Re enlisting and volunteering to go back is somehow Bush's fault?

How was he being lied to if he volunteered to go back?

Someone explain that to me.

Bush fucked up going to war, but lets dont all sit here and act like it was Bush alone who felt the need to go to war.

Its easy to live in hindsight SLC and shoulda,woulda,coulda, but u cant do that.

the majority felt Something had to be done about Sadaam, post 9/11 made it impossible to put up with his stalling and his bullshit.

Once he was removed they were locked into Iraq for the long haul to get that country on their feet.

Bush now, however is fucked, cause either he stays and American lives are lost, or he leaves and innocent Iraqi's by the millions are lost.


I find it repulsive that u all support the mass slaughter of innocent human beings in Iraq. and support a country goin to Civil War and mass chaos.

On the news I was watching some new recruits at boot camp the other week. They were saying (paraphrasing) ?After 911, everything changed. I need to do this. I love the country. We need to go into Iraq and spread democracy, because after 911??

These are great kids, don?t get me wrong, but they are incredibly naive. Most of the soldiers fighting in Iraq have been brainwashed by the military, the media, and of course, by Bush.

1) I like how instead of responding to D's post, you went and attacked the intelligence of the men and women in uniform

2) Isn't it funny how you started this post with "On the news I was watching..." and ended saying that the "media" has brainwashed most of the soldiers fighting in Iraq Maybe the media really is brainwashing someone? Somehow I don't think it's the soldiers.

[RichardNixon]

I think this woman is getting way too much coverage on the media. I get it, she lost a son, and it's bad, and she feels that she needs to go demonstrating against the war. But she's "just" a mother, with no experience on the bigger scenario, how leaving now would effect everything. Something has to be learnt from this for future (one would've thought that would've been done about 40 years ago) , but you can't fix what's already been done.

I think, that at this point setting a 'set-in-stone-date' for withdrawl would be idiotic and dangerous. The Bush administration fucked up big time on Iraq, but it has to see this thing through, or it could be even a bigger of a disaster than it already is. Now they're involved. They have a responsibility. They can't just say "whoops, we fucked, up, our bad.. good bye". I think the only thing that could top this mistake-after-mistake-scenario would be to leave now and leave the country in total chaos.

Having said that. More effort should be put to having a solid exit strategy. There will be a point after which the US will have to leave, and trust that Iraq will be able to take care of itself. It's a fucked up situation with no obvious answers.

Great Post Skeba, I am not articulate sometimes but this is essentially what I was tryin to say.

Let me get this straight Dick Nixon, Cindy Sheehan's son going to war, getting out of the war and being free but yet Re enlisting and volunteering to go back is somehow Bush's fault?

How was he being lied to if he volunteered to go back?

Someone explain that to me.

Bush fucked up going to war, but lets dont all sit here and act like it was Bush alone who felt the need to go to war.

Its easy to live in hindsight SLC and shoulda,woulda,coulda, but u cant do that.

the majority felt Something had to be done about Sadaam, post 9/11 made it impossible to put up with his stalling and his bullshit.

Once he was removed they were locked into Iraq for the long haul to get that country on their feet.

Bush now, however is fucked, cause either he stays and American lives are lost, or he leaves and innocent Iraqi's by the millions are lost.


I find it repulsive that u all support the mass slaughter of innocent human beings in Iraq. and support a country goin to Civil War and mass chaos.

On the news I was watching some new recruits at boot camp the other week. They were saying (paraphrasing) ?After 911, everything changed. I need to do this. I love the country. We need to go into Iraq and spread democracy, because after 911??

These are great kids, don?t get me wrong, but they are incredibly naive. Most of the soldiers fighting in Iraq have been brainwashed by the military, the media, and of course, by Bush.

1) I like how instead of responding to D's post, you went and attacked the intelligence of the men and women in uniform

2) Isn't it funny how you started this post with "On the news I was watching..." and ended saying that the "media" has brainwashed most of the soldiers fighting in Iraq Maybe the media really is brainwashing someone? Somehow I don't think it's the soldiers.

1. I never said soilders were stupid. But the ones who believe that Iraq was somehow behind 911 have been misled.

2. Sure I watch the news. What's wrong with that? So what. I don't see what your point is. People can be exposed to all outlets and arrive to any conclusion they want.

[D]

U are missing the point Richard


Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, that isnt what we are discussing.

Post 9/11 means u take every potential threat seriously.


Before 9/11 we put up with Sadaam's games and bullshit cause we had this inferior attitude like we were invincible.

After 9/11 every and any thing became possible.


U live in hindsight Richard and u cant do that man, why should u be allowed to live in hindsight?

So Iraq had no WMD, fine but did u know that?  No of course not.

thing is we went there because after 9/11 the motto was better safe than sorry.


I relate it to this, its like you thinking your GF is cheating on u and when u try to go through her cell phone she wont let u when she never had a problem with it before.

If she had nothing to hide, she wouldnt object to u goin through it.

same here, if Sadaam had no WMD, why didnt he let the UN do their jobs? Id rather they went to Iraq and found nothing, then turn a blind eye like with 9/11 and then a nuclear bomb go off in NY.

But go ahead and live in Hindsight DIckNixon, cause when u live in hindsight u are assured of always being 100 percent correct, thats pretty self righteous to do that shit though.


They went to Iraq, found nothing but after they found nothing it was too late to turn back, they couldnt just put Sadaam back into power and walk away, so u get what we have now, a war to set up some kind of resolution once and for all in Iraq.

[RichardNixon]

We should have let the inspectors do there work. They would have determined there were no WMD. Bush and his cronies used the tragedy of 911 to further their agenda. The Neo-cons wanted to go into Iraq since 1996. 911 was the perfect excuse. The American public was scared and needed someone to blame. Darth Cheney, Rummy, Wolfawitz(sp) and jr jumped at the chance to exploit America's fear. Sadam was never a threat.

The US was wrong to go to war, PERIOD! The rational for going to war was WMD. Remember that? And now we have this big mess. 2000 American soldiers dead, 30,000 Iraqis dead. Not to mention the millions on both sides that will suffer a lifetime of psychological damage. This war was a mistake period.

There are lots of dictators in the world. Why aren't we spreading democracy all over world? Answer me this, do you think we would have gone into Iraq if they had been sitting on top of Olive Oil?

[sandman]

"saddam was never a threat" 

that's gotta be the quote of the year in these threads.

i can understand people being against the war from the beginning. but to make a claim like this shows how partisanship makes you blind to reality.

[jarmo]

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, that isnt what we are discussing.

Post 9/11 means u take every potential threat seriously.

And the biggest threat was Iraq?

So Iraq had no WMD, fine but did u know that?? No of course not.

Some other people seemed to be sure they didn't have anything they weren't supposed to have.

They went to Iraq, found nothing but after they found nothing it was too late to turn back, they couldnt just put Sadaam back into power and walk away, so u get what we have now, a war to set up some kind of resolution once and for all in Iraq.

Look, they went to get the WMDs, then it changed to going there to liberate Iraq. Why wasn't the liberation of Iraq the main priority from the start?


The last Gulf War had a clear mission. Liberate Kuwait. Everyody could see that.

Same thing in Afghanistan. Get rid off the Taliban goverment. Easy to see why the soldiers went there and everybody supported it.


This time, things are a bit different.

"saddam was never a threat"

that's gotta be the quote of the year in these threads.

i can understand people being against the war from the beginning. but to make a claim like this shows how partisanship makes you blind to reality.

Khadaffi was a huge threat (Lockerbie anyone?) but you never saw USA go into Libya to liberate the people.


I don't think Saddam was the #1 enemy they want you to think he was.



/jarmo

[RichardNixon]

"saddam was never a threat"?

that's gotta be the quote of the year in these threads.

i can understand people being against the war from the beginning. but to make a claim like this shows how partisanship makes you blind to reality.

Saddam was never, never, never, never, ever a threat to the US. Axl Rose is a bigger threat to national security than Saddam was.

[pilferk]

"saddam was never a threat"?

that's gotta be the quote of the year in these threads.

i can understand people being against the war from the beginning. but to make a claim like this shows how partisanship makes you blind to reality.

Actually, I rather think that asserting he WAS a threat, at any point during THIS administration, is the demonstration of partisanship.  Maybe he was PERCEIVED as a threat, but...well, the facts are the facts, hindsight or not.  Economic Sactions, we now know, had crippled his ability to actually BE a threat to anyone.  He had no chemical or biological ordinance, and, if he did, no way to deliver it to us.

 In addition, he certainly was NEVER, EVER a direct threat to the US, even during the first Gulf War.  He didn't have the technology to deliver anything dangerous anywhere NEAR us.  And what dangerous material he DID have was too bulky and obvious to deliver "in person" (ie: a suicide terrorist attack) on these shores.  A threat to foreign holdings or allies? Maybe.  But not a direct threat to this country.  And that's an undeniable fact.

[D]

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, that isnt what we are discussing.

Post 9/11 means u take every potential threat seriously.

And the biggest threat was Iraq?

So Iraq had no WMD, fine but did u know that?? No of course not.

Some other people seemed to be sure they didn't have anything they weren't supposed to have.

They went to Iraq, found nothing but after they found nothing it was too late to turn back, they couldnt just put Sadaam back into power and walk away, so u get what we have now, a war to set up some kind of resolution once and for all in Iraq.

Look, they went to get the WMDs, then it changed to going there to liberate Iraq. Why wasn't the liberation of Iraq the main priority from the start?


The last Gulf War had a clear mission. Liberate Kuwait. Everyody could see that.

Same thing in Afghanistan. Get rid off the Taliban goverment. Easy to see why the soldiers went there and everybody supported it.


This time, things are a bit different.

"saddam was never a threat"

that's gotta be the quote of the year in these threads.

i can understand people being against the war from the beginning. but to make a claim like this shows how partisanship makes you blind to reality.

Khadaffi was a huge threat (Lockerbie anyone?) but you never saw USA go into Libya to liberate the people.


I don't think Saddam was the #1 enemy they want you to think he was.



/jarmo

Sadaam had sanctions, he didnt live up to them, that alone was enough to overthrow him.

Richard Nixon I use to think that u at least had a clue but after your last post, i dont think I wanna debate with u any longer, If u think Sadaam and Axl are on the same level as a threat to our country, u are in need for some deep guidance and are too far gone to save.

Was Sadaam our biggest threat? I dont know, I leave that up to the elected officials who we grant the power to make those decisions.

John Kerry thought he was a threat, Bill Clinton thought he was a threat, Blair, countless others.

Its easy to jump off a sinking ship when it comes back u were wrong but Bush doesnt have that luxury.

They couldve returned Sadaam to power and forgot the whole thing but what kind of message would that have sent to the world?

[jarmo]

They couldve returned Sadaam to power and forgot the whole thing but what kind of message would that have sent to the world?

The message the current president's dad sent when they didn't get rid off the guy in the 1990s?


You trust your goverment, but not all of us are like that. Politicians very often forget they're supposed to serve the people and instead serve the purposes of their friends and their corporations. Happens all over the world. Not just in "uncivilized" and corrupt countries that nobody can even spell the names of.




/jarmo

[D]

They couldve returned Sadaam to power and forgot the whole thing but what kind of message would that have sent to the world?

The message the current president's dad sent when they didn't get rid off the guy in the 1990s?


You trust your goverment, but not all of us are like that. Politicians very often forget they're supposed to serve the people and instead serve the purposes of their friends and their corporations. Happens all over the world. Not just in "uncivilized" and corrupt countries that nobody can even spell the names of.




/jarmo

I will definitely concede that point to u, I have no idea why they didnt do the job right the first time, that to me is unexcusable.

I dont agree or trust our government 100 percent, but they have access to info that I dont, plus a whole bunch of reputable world leaders thought Sadaam was a threat. Bush did jump the gun and mistakes were made but after 9/11, I feel Bush legitimately felt we had to act now.

hindsight is 20/20, I dont think its fair using the tool of hindsight to crucify someone.

[RichardNixon]

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, that isnt what we are discussing.

Post 9/11 means u take every potential threat seriously.

And the biggest threat was Iraq?

So Iraq had no WMD, fine but did u know that?? No of course not.

Some other people seemed to be sure they didn't have anything they weren't supposed to have.

They went to Iraq, found nothing but after they found nothing it was too late to turn back, they couldnt just put Sadaam back into power and walk away, so u get what we have now, a war to set up some kind of resolution once and for all in Iraq.

Look, they went to get the WMDs, then it changed to going there to liberate Iraq. Why wasn't the liberation of Iraq the main priority from the start?


The last Gulf War had a clear mission. Liberate Kuwait. Everyody could see that.

Same thing in Afghanistan. Get rid off the Taliban goverment. Easy to see why the soldiers went there and everybody supported it.


This time, things are a bit different.

"saddam was never a threat"

that's gotta be the quote of the year in these threads.

i can understand people being against the war from the beginning. but to make a claim like this shows how partisanship makes you blind to reality.

Khadaffi was a huge threat (Lockerbie anyone?) but you never saw USA go into Libya to liberate the people.


I don't think Saddam was the #1 enemy they want you to think he was.



/jarmo

Sadaam had sanctions, he didnt live up to them, that alone was enough to overthrow him.

Richard Nixon I use to think that u at least had a clue but after your last post, i dont think I wanna debate with u any longer, If u think Sadaam and Axl are on the same level as a threat to our country, u are in need for some deep guidance and are too far gone to save.

Was Sadaam our biggest threat? I dont know, I leave that up to the elected officials who we grant the power to make those decisions.

John Kerry thought he was a threat, Bill Clinton thought he was a threat, Blair, countless others.

Its easy to jump off a sinking ship when it comes back u were wrong but Bush doesnt have that luxury.

They couldve returned Sadaam to power and forgot the whole thing but what kind of message would that have sent to the world?

When I said Axl was a bigger threat to US security than Saddam, that was tongue-in-cheek, although it's true. John Kerry and the Clinton's jumped on the bandwagon, like most Democrats, so they wouldn't look weak. Although some stood up to Bush's bullshit from day one, like my hero, Ted Kennedy.

BTW, anyone who can't type out "you" instead of "U" demonstrates how ignorant they are.

And what "kind of message" have we sent to the world now?

[jarmo]

I will definitely concede that point to u, I have no idea why they didnt do the job right the first time, that to me is unexcusable.

Because they were afraid it would turn into a mess?

I dont agree or trust our government 100 percent, but they have access to info that I dont, plus a whole bunch of reputable world leaders thought Sadaam was a threat. Bush did jump the gun and mistakes were made but after 9/11, I feel Bush legitimately felt we had to act now.

That's why I don't trust them. Like with everything else, you hear what they want you to hear. If you're lucky, you'll hear more than one side of the story. In many cases we don't.

In this case they had access to info that turned out that it wasn't very good....



/jarmo