Prop 73 in California, Children have to have consent to abort, what do u think?

[pilferk]

I just spoke with my mother and appoximately 100 women were dying a day from abortion - not thousands. ?I'm sure we'll just hear how you were making an example and Pop and I are making a big del out of nothing. ?Point being you exagerated the situation to strengthen your argument. ?every time we catch someone doing this, it just makes me wonder how many times we don't. ?Claims of racism and bigotry are expected. ?

Not true, either.  Hundreds annually, but not per day.  At least by the conservative estimates.  CDC figures say you'd have to go back to the 40's to find, illegal and legal combined, more than 1000 deaths.

[POPmetal]

Do you want me to dig up articles that refer to pro-lifers as "religious conservatives"? It wouldn't be hard at all,? I just didn't think it was necessary, since they come a dime a dozen. But if you're the one person who hasn't encountered that, I'll do it for you...

Hey...what's good for the goose.

Be ready for your own medicine if you do that though.

Don't get all pissy when the shoe is on the other foot.

Here you go:

http://villagevoice.com/news/0540,tamanaha,68544,2.html

And to the eternal outrage of religious conservatives, three of Nixon?s appointees voted with the majority in Roe v. Wade to invalidate legislation prohibiting abortion.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/18/opinion/edstem.php

The other technique, developed at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, is a variant of the method known as "therapeutic cloning," which can produce exact genetic matches but is anathema to religious conservatives because it involves first creating and then destroying a human embryo.

[POPmetal]

You said "Thousands of girls were dying everyday because of it." Nowhere in this source does it say that thousands of girls were dying every day. It says thousands were dying or getting injured, each year.

Why can't pro abortionists make their case without sexing up the facts?

I'm sorry that I was off on my original estimation. I'm not a historian.

By the way, I'm not a pro abortionist. I'm pro rights. I told you that in an earlier post.

Okay, I'm glad we established that, because the pro abortion rights movement was based on lies about the number of illegal abortion deaths, by the admission of one of the founding characters behind the movement.

And saying someone is pro rights is so general that it's meaningless. Everyone is pro rights! The question is which rights are you pro? The right of the parent to know? Or the right of a child to have unfettered access to abortion?

[SLCPUNK]

OK, Pop metal answer to a popmetal post:

That doesn't prove anything.....

 

[SLCPUNK]

Actually....it's not.

Again I was refering to back room abortions taking place, not the numbers quoted.

The truth is, statistics on the subject, at a national level, are almost impossible to come by until after Roe v Wade (with the exception of some widely spaced out, and all inclusive, CDC figures).  Once Roe v Wade occurred, no one can deny that the mortality rate dropped.  The problem is..no one can really tell by just how much.
.

This is what I meant by " Although it would be impossible to give stats one way or the other. "


See whudda mean Vern?

[POPmetal]

OK, Pop metal answer to a popmetal post:

That doesn't prove anything.....

 

You wanted me to provide articles where the media refers to pro-lifers as religious conservatives and I did exactly that. You can take what you want out of that, I'm not saying it "proves" anything. If you want to disagree with my opinion that the media tends to paint pro-lifers as 'religious conservative' that is certainly a valid point of view and you're entitled to it.

[D]

To  answer my thread though I think Parents have the right to know.

I dont think a 12 or 13 year old has the mental capacity to make such a decision and to handle the consequences on their own.

[SLCPUNK]

OK, Pop metal answer to a popmetal post:

That doesn't prove anything.....

 

You wanted me to provide articles where the media refers to pro-lifers as religious conservatives and I did exactly that. You can take what you want out of that, I'm not saying it "proves" anything. If you want to disagree with my opinion that the media tends to paint pro-lifers as 'religious conservative' that is certainly a valid point of view and you're entitled to it.

I pretty much told you what I was going to do before you even did it. I'm still laughing that you bothered to look that crap up.

[POPmetal]

OK, Pop metal answer to a popmetal post:

That doesn't prove anything.....

 

You wanted me to provide articles where the media refers to pro-lifers as religious conservatives and I did exactly that. You can take what you want out of that, I'm not saying it "proves" anything. If you want to disagree with my opinion that the media tends to paint pro-lifers as 'religious conservative' that is certainly a valid point of view and you're entitled to it.

I pretty much told you what I was going to do before you even did it. I'm still laughing that you bothered to look that crap up.

It was hardly a bother. Only a quick google search.

[conny]

Parents should know...what? Wait a minute...

They should take care of their children IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I have absolutely no understanding for a girl getting pregnant at age 12. For me, that's a case of "unfit to live" - both her and the father should be locked up in a mental hopital and their parents should go to jail forever. All those people do is screw with their own lifes, and when they start treating the unborn life, and therefor life itself, with that same disrecpect then what's their use in this world? No one needs that human garbage.

Morally, on the general subject of abortion, I'm against it. Exception only in case of rape.

However, in this world, I'd say leave it up to those concerned. After all, this is none of my fucken business.

If I had a daughter in that position I'd be 100% behind her, trying to help her making a decision only she can make. But the point is: at this age (- 20) you can not make such a decision because you don't know shit about life AND if I had a daughter, she wouldn't be in the position in the first place because I'd do my "job" as a father.

[journey]

Parents should know...what? Wait a minute...

They should take care of their children IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I have absolutely no understanding for a girl getting pregnant at age 12. For me, that's a case of "unfit to live" - both her and the father should be locked up in a mental hopital and their parents should go to jail forever.

Parents aren't perfect. They can't be with their children all the time.

My brother became a father at 15 years old. My parents supported him and made sure he went to college.

[pilferk]

Again I was refering to back room abortions taking place, not the numbers quoted.

Yeah, me too.? The "thousands of deaths" statistic is in specific reference to illegal abortions in his text.? And it's wrong.? He uses some self-created modifier on the statistics (which include comorbidity factors and Method of Injury (MOI) on treated patients in NYC) that he DID have that completely botches the numbers.? And the "fuzzy math" created a pretty sensational statistic that Planned Parenthood has quoted, ad nauseum (including in court filings)....so it tends to be pretty well soaked into the public conciousness.

Which sorta sucks.? Not that the stat is wrong, but that BECAUSE the stat is wrong, those that are against abortion discredit the entire argument that mortality rate improved once abortions were legal by poo-pooing the incorrect claim.? Of course, the truth is, no matter WHICH numbers you use, you see a dramatic decrease in deaths.

This is what I meant by " Although it would be impossible to give stats one way or the other. "


See whudda mean Vern?

I sure do.

[lynn1961]

Parents should know...what? Wait a minute...

They should take care of their children IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I have absolutely no understanding for a girl getting pregnant at age 12. For me, that's a case of "unfit to live" - both her and the father should be locked up in a mental hopital and their parents should go to jail forever. All those people do is screw with their own lifes, and when they start treating the unborn life, and therefor life itself, with that same disrecpect then what's their use in this world? No one needs that human garbage.

Morally, on the general subject of abortion, I'm against it. Exception only in case of rape.

However, in this world, I'd say leave it up to those concerned. After all, this is none of my fucken business.

If I had a daughter in that position I'd be 100% behind her, trying to help her making a decision only she can make. But the point is: at this age (- 20) you can not make such a decision because you don't know shit about life AND if I had a daughter, she wouldn't be in the position in the first place because I'd do my "job" as a father.

Those are some pretty harsh words.? However, I'm glad you'd be behind your child 100%.? But to say she wouldn't be in that position in the first place - shit does happen.? Kids under 18 do have sex, unprotected sex because they are not prepared, and then they have to deal with the consequences.? I don't think it matters how good a parent you are- kids still experiment & do things when mom & dad aren't looking.  All we can do is try and lay the groundwork, so to speak, and hope they will be able to make sound decisions.? I think what's important is to be there for them even when, and maybe especially when, they get into "trouble".? Which is another reason why I would want to be informed.? ?

[SLCPUNK]

  But to say she wouldn't be in that position in the first place - shit does happen. 

I agree. There is no getting around that part of life....

[lynn1961]

 But to say she wouldn't be in that position in the first place - shit does happen.

I agree. There is no getting around that part of life....

  Not sure how to take that response....

[SLCPUNK]

 But to say she wouldn't be in that position in the first place - shit does happen.

I agree. There is no getting around that part of life....

  Not sure how to take that response....

Agreeing and meaning...."shit does happen"

You have to live life on lifes terms....Not really your own. You can only control so much of your life.

Hows that?

[lynn1961]

That does clear things up for me.? Thanks.? I just wasn't sure if you were agreeing with "shit happens" or talking about, you know, shit, because there's no getting around that either. Sometimes it's difficult to interpret people's meanings.? Sorry.? ??

[SLCPUNK]

That does clear things up for me.  Thanks.  I just wasn't sure if you were agreeing with "shit happens" or talking about, you know, shit, because there's no getting around that either. Sometimes it's difficult to interpret people's meanings.  Sorry.    

It can be tough when it is only words, yes, no problem.

[jarmo]

I did some cleaning in this thread. Because if you're banned from here, it means stay away!





/jarmo