Prop 73 in California, Children have to have consent to abort, what do u think?

[Sin Cut]

I'm undecided, because some parents are volatile. They may hurt their child or kick her out of the home. I think it should be the girl's choice. Her parents should be notified only if she consents to it.

um.. then there wouldn't be any point of this law, would it?

That's what I meant. It shouldn't be a law, but rather an option.

But I think me as a father would have the right to know, even if my "little" girl would be araid to tell me.

It's up to you to become the kind of father to encourage your girl to tell you about these personnal things !
If I was to vote I'd vote against it !

You'd vote against what kind of father I'd be? 

[POPmetal]

There are also some very greedy abortion providers out there.

I'm sure there are.

Believe me, I don't support abortion, but I do support the rights of people.

So everyone who supports prop 73 must be against "the rights of people"?

In our opinion well yes - the right of a young girl to dispose of its own body.

But prop 73 does not ban her from having the abortion, it just requires that her parents are notified. And even then prop 73 allows her not to do so by petitioning a juvenile court for a waiver if it is the case that notifying her parents is not in her best interest. How is that against the so called "right of a young girl to dispose of its own body"

ok pratical case now - if she doesn't want to keep the baby but the parents are religious and against abortions ? Do you the girl will have a normal life w/ her parents once the abortion's done ? I guess not. I still think that it's up to her to come up with an already difficult decision to make.

Perhaps she will, perhaps she won't. But how is notifying them against the so called "right of a young girl to dispose of its own body," which is what you said?

If parents are pro-life - how can you expect the girl to make her own decision - she is underage and still needs her parents right ? How are the chances, if her parents don't agree that she gets the abortion ??
If she does - she's courageous enough to go against her parents' values but she'll be living in hell, so to speak.

The point is she can still have the abortion, so no one is taking away this so called "right," so how can you say people who support prop 73 are against people's rights

And if you want to go into hypotheticals, we can do this all day long. Here's another practical case. A 16 year old girl is rushed by planned parenthood into having an abortion instead of giving the baby up for adoption because planned parenthood makes its money like that. The girl is scared, she doesn't know how her parents will react if they find out, so she? decides to go ahead with the "advice" from the planned parenthood salesman, sorry, I meant "counselor." Then, after thinking seriously about it, she comes to the conclusion that abortion is wrong and for the rest of her life regrets and struggles with the decision she took.

[Rain]

What is what you don't understand in what I keep on repeting ? In my opinion (because when it comes down to abortion it's down to someone's opinion!) allowing the parents to know is not giving the girl the entire say in that decision ! ie not giving the girl the right to entirely dispose of its own body. I answered D initial question - If I was to vote I'd vote against and I gave the reasons for it ! If you don't agree that's fine with me !

[POPmetal]

What is what you don't understand in what I keep on repeting ? In my opinion (because when it comes down to abortion it's down to someone's opinion!) allowing the parents to know is not giving the girl the entire say in that decision ! ie not giving the girl the right to entirely dispose of its own body. I answered D initial question - If I was to vote I'd vote against and I gave the reasons for it ! If you don't agree that's fine with me !

All societies don't give children the same rights as adults.

[jameslofton29]

We vote in just a few weeks, and I'm voting yes on this proposition.

[badapple81]

I tend to disagree, I mean it's not for the parents to tell their daughter that she must have the child and bring it up when she is smart enough (yes she should have been smart enough to avoid it in the first place but thats another thread) to realise it's not the right time for her or the child's welfare, to have a baby.

[lynn1961]

I think I would end up voting "yes".  I think parents have the right to know.  When I worked in a doctor's office, we needed parental consent for everything, for anyone under the age of 18.  The only exception had to do with sex, birth control, pregnancy, abortion, etc.  Coming from the perspective of a parent, this never made sense to me.  I mean, I do understand the touchiness of this issue and some of the reasons behind it, but I just think a child is either under the age of consent or they are not.       

[Surfrider]

There are also some very greedy abortion providers out there.

I'm sure there are.

Believe me, I don't support abortion, but I do support the rights of people.

So everyone who supports prop 73 must be against "the rights of people"?

In our opinion well yes - the right of a young girl to dispose of its own body.

Why are there statutory rape laws then?  Those laws surely get in the way of a young girl who wants to do what ever she wants with her body?

[pilferk]

I waffle on this one as I see both sides of the argument. ?As a parent, I'd want to know if my child was having a medical procedure performed on her. ?On the flip side....I can see the argument that some parents would not be understanding, might withhold consent based on their personal beliefs, etc, which would have long lasting effects on the girl's life.

It's a catch-22 and, unless you could provide some "out" as an alternate path (involving a trained, indepedant social worker as an alternative to parental consent, maybe?..and even that brings with it it's own set of issues), it doesn't seem like there is an easy answer.

[noonespecial]

...the thing that gets me is that if you make it mandatory for the parents to be notified, the kids are going to go for (lack of a better term) the back alley abortion route...out of fear of parental explosion....what if the kid is pregnant because they are a victum of incest? What if they were raped...what are the numbers on the kids under 18 getting abortions that this is even an issue? This sounds like a red herring issue to take people's minds off of more important issues...I don't know, I'm not a parent...

[POPmetal]

what if the kid is pregnant because they are a victum of incest?

They'd be better off not living with that type of parent. An abortion will only cover up the crime of that father and  make it possible for the abuse to continue. But those are relatively rare cases, and for them prop 73 provides a waiver which makes it possible not to notify the parents. The vast majority of parents are good responsible parents, who, even if they are pro-life, will continue to love their daughter if she chooses to have an abortion. You can't deny their rights because of a few extreme cases.

[journey]

...the thing that gets me is that if you make it mandatory for the parents to be notified, the kids are going to go for (lack of a better term) the back alley abortion route...out of fear of parental explosion....

That's my concern also. Many girls may be reluctant to go to anyone for help, if their privacy is at stake.

When abortion was illegalized in the early 70s, there was an epidemic of girls giving themselves abortions at home. Thousands of girls were dying everyday because of it.

[POPmetal]

When abortion was illegalized in the early 70s, there was an epidemic of girls giving themselves abortions at home. Thousands of girls were dying everyday because of it.

Can you please back that up with a credible source?

[Guns N RockMusic]

When abortion was illegalized in the early 70s, there was an epidemic of girls giving themselves abortions at home. Thousands of girls were dying everyday because of it.

Can you please back that up with a credible source?

Yes please do, cause that's a complete bullshit statistic.  My mother runs the pre-natal program for a major health insurance company and i know that this is not true by any stetch of the term.  While I am pro-choice, the number of rapes and incest related abortions are minute and not even a percent of all abortions.  People who aren't honest enough to admit that they favor the human euthanizing of humans point out examples as rape to make themselves feel better.  The more realistic reason a underage girl would not want to tell her parents she's preagnant is because her parents probably don't know she's sexually active and certainly wouldn't condone it.  Personal feelings aside, it is a parents responsibility to care for that child until they are an adult and that child doesn't have total freedom to do as they wish.  IMO, some of you are upset because you don't like the idea of your parents knowing some of the shit you did as a teenager.

[SLCPUNK]

When abortion was illegalized in the early 70s, there was an epidemic of girls giving themselves abortions at home. Thousands of girls were dying everyday because of it.

Can you please back that up with a credible source?

It's a pretty well known fact. Although it would be impossible to give stats one way or the other.

[POPmetal]

When abortion was illegalized in the early 70s, there was an epidemic of girls giving themselves abortions at home. Thousands of girls were dying everyday because of it.

Can you please back that up with a credible source?

It's a pretty well known fact. Although it would be impossible to give stats one way or the other.

Our conspiracy theorist chimes in that it's "pretty well know fact." Imagine that 

If it was a well know "fact," actually that would make it really easy to show stats.

[SLCPUNK]

When abortion was illegalized in the early 70s, there was an epidemic of girls giving themselves abortions at home. Thousands of girls were dying everyday because of it.

Can you please back that up with a credible source?

It's a pretty well known fact. Although it would be impossible to give stats one way or the other.

Our conspiracy theorist chimes in that it's "pretty well know fact." Imagine that 

If it was a well know "fact," actually that would make it really easy to show stats.

You left out the rest of my post and took it out of context (imagine that, you spinning). It is a fact that illegal abortions were performed at that time.

and....

I said that there are no facts either way to deny or support this. So neither one of you can be validated.

Now would be a good time for you to change the subject......

[Guns N RockMusic]

I just spoke with my mother and appoximately 100 women were dying a day from abortion - not thousands. ?I'm sure we'll just hear how you were making an example and Pop and I are making a big del out of nothing. ?Point being you exagerated the situation to strengthen your argument. ?every time we catch someone doing this, it just makes me wonder how many times we don't. ?Claims of racism and bigotry are expected. ?

[SLCPUNK]

I just spoke with my mother and appoximately 100 women were dying a day from abortion - not thousands. 

She was speaking of illegal abortions......wasn't she?

And if you want to be smart about it, using your mother as a source is a logical fallacy. 

[Guns N RockMusic]

I just spoke with my mother and appoximately 100 women were dying a day from abortion - not thousands.?

She was speaking of illegal abortions......wasn't she?

And if you want to be smart about it, using your mother as a source is a logical fallacy.?

yes she was, because that was what we were discussing.  I'd like to see where using your mother is a logical fallacy SLC.