Jim Barber (a&r for Geffen) on Chinese in 98-99

[madagas]

Stuff like this makes me sick but at least people think the music was/is good.

How did you get involved in Guns N? Roses?

Nothing else had worked, so Geffen figured they?d send me in to talk to Axl after I moved to Los Angeles. We desperately wanted the new album for Christmas 1998 and I had a year to get it finished. Whenever anyone asks me about GNR, I think about Rutger Hauer?s line in Blade Runner: ?I?ve seen things you people wouldn?t believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.?

No expense was spared; they were the biggest band in the history of the label and, even though everyone except Axl was gone, Geffen Records lived and breathed for another GNR album.

The Robin Finck/Josh Freese/Tommy Stinson/Billy Howerdel/Dizzy Reed version of the album that existed in 1998 was pretty incredible. It still sounded like GNR but there were elements of Zeppelin, Nine Inch Nails and Pink Floyd mixed in. If Axl had recorded vocals, it would have been an absolutely contemporary record in 1999.

People close to the project have since told me that I don?t know what I?m talking about, that the current version of the record in no way resembles what I heard in early 1999. That?s too bad.

Do you think that Chinese Democracy is ever going to come out?

I have no idea. Seven years ago, the record just needed a lead vocal and a mix. The last time I was at the studio was two days before my daughter was born. Last night she read all of ?Hop on Pop? to me. Some mysteries passeth all understanding.

 

[lynn1961]

I read this somewhere else, as well.  That's really sad.  Seven years ago, all CD needed was a lead vocal and a mix?  That's a hell of a lot of time, money, and effort wasted.  How many promises of a release date have come and gone? Pretty pathetic, really.  How much "perfection" does Axl need?  I think he's afraid to release anything because he has a fear of failure.

[madagas]

I just hope he still has all that stuff in the vaults and that he didn't erase it. 

[Eric]

Does anyone know who Billy Howerdel is?

[killingvector]

Maybe Slash's statement that only two songs had vocals referred to this period of time.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

why does it always come down to vocals.   I have read countless times 'The music is done, the vocals need some finishing touches' or something like that, whether it's the 98-99 album or the post-2002 work.

[mikegiuliana]

if axl only layed down the vocals.. Where the fuck was he when these albums were being put together.. he is the hold up of everything gnr.. Real shame the man can never get his shit together.. The money and time he has wasted, not only his but all the people involved who came and went..

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Does anyone know who Billy Howerdel is?

He is in a perfect circle. He is a guitarist/tech person.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

why does it always come down to vocals.? ?I have read countless times 'The music is done, the vocals need some finishing touches' or something like that, whether it's the 98-99 album or the post-2002 work.

Because if the songs were to leak out, the wouldn?t have vocals and would be worthless. Also, the vocals could be on another track the guy did not know about.  I am sure he had them written down just not done yet. Don't forgot not to long after 1999 Brian May heard 2 or 3 albums of songs with vocals added. So Axl could have had the masters of the songs with vocals. It really is too bad because we could have had a new gnr album in 1999, 2002 and 2005 if Axl released all that material.  I hope someday we get a box set to hear all these songs that were scrapped.

[Evolution]

I hope someday we get a box set to hear all these songs that were scrapped.

That would be a cream dream. And also the ultimate "fuck you" to people who said Axl wasn't spending his time productively in his home

[Izzy]

If ever proof was needed that it was Axl causing the delay....

Why can't he just record some vocals - again and again we're told the music's done but the vocals aren't done. I wonder why

[dave-gnfnr2k]

If ever proof was needed that it was Axl causing the delay....

Why can't he just record some vocals - again and again we're told the music's done but the vocals aren't done. I wonder why

He is a perctionist. Hell it took Brian Wilson like 30 years to finish Smile.

[mikegiuliana]

If ever proof was needed that it was Axl causing the delay....

Why can't he just record some vocals - again and again we're told the music's done but the vocals aren't done. I wonder why

He is a perctionist. Hell it took Brian Wilson like 30 years to finish Smile.

why do people keep using him as an example and always making excuses for axl rose..  Brian wilson was a fucking wacko and doing the material is not what took him that long.. That is also not a beach boy's album but this is a gnr album where tons of money has been wasted and people he hired as band mates have to sit on their asses waiting for him.. There's a  difference between a long awaited gnr album and an axl rose album .. Much more interest is in a gnr album that represents a huge succesfull rock group the other is just a lead singer of the band.. even though both bands are fronted by the same man people have more interest in a gnr project then an axl rose project..

So enough with axl in comparison to brain wilson...  The man is being a fuck up not coming through while he has his fan boys constantly making excsues to why he is never wrong or always delaying everyone in the world.. Maybe the hero of the day is just to chicken shit to release an album.. So keep using brian wilson or blaming ex members or whatever else it takes for you to get through the day instead of just saying axl rose is the one to blame regardless if he is a perfectionist.. He's so perfect he can't make his gigs on time..

be fans of his music or gnr but enough with the defending his every time taking move..

[dave-gnfnr2k]

If ever proof was needed that it was Axl causing the delay....

Why can't he just record some vocals - again and again we're told the music's done but the vocals aren't done. I wonder why

He is a perctionist. Hell it took Brian Wilson like 30 years to finish Smile.

why do people keep using him as an example and always making excuses for axl rose..? Brian wilson was a fucking wacko and doing the material is not what took him that long.. That is also not a beach boy's album but this is a gnr album where tons of money has been wasted and people he hired as band mates have to sit on their asses waiting for him.. There's a? difference between a long awaited gnr album and an axl rose album .. Much more interest is in a gnr album that represents a huge succesfull rock group the other is just a lead singer of the band.. even though both bands are fronted by the same man people have more interest in a gnr project then an axl rose project..

So enough with axl in comparison to brain wilson...? The man is being a fuck up not coming through while he has his fan boys constantly making excsues to why he is never wrong or always delaying everyone in the world.. Maybe the hero of the day is just to chicken shit to release an album.. So keep using brian wilson or blaming ex members or whatever else it takes for you to get through the day instead of just saying axl rose is the one to blame regardless if he is a perfectionist.. He's so perfect he can't make his gigs on time..

be fans of his music or gnr but enough with the defending his every time taking move..

You really need to chill out. The true Axl fans accept Axl for Axl and don't bitch about his faults. Get over it already. I don't use anything to get me through the day. I live my life, listen to other music, and when CD comes out it comes out, I unlike you don't spend every day bitching and complaining its taking too long like you and a few others do.

As for defending his every move, the same can be said for the people like yourself who bitch at his every move, or about the album taking too long or about him not speaking to us about the album.

The biggest difference between fans like me and fans like you is, I have come to accept axl and how he is, after all these? years you would think you could do the same. He is never going to chance so why do you even complain about it?

Axl wants to make the best album possible. So when he feels its right, he will release it, how hard is that to understand?

[mikegiuliana]

live my life, listen to other music, and when CD comes out it comes out, I unlike you don't spend every day bitching and complaining its taking too long like you and a few others do.

Like everyone else doesn't do the same.. it's just this blind loyalty were the men on these forums are more then just fans they are like worshipers on the alter of axl.. I come here out of habbit and some new rumor to catch a laugh.. I just can't stand the constant excuses everyone gives to why he doesn't deliver..

As for defending his every move, the same can be said for the people like yourself who bitch at his every move, or about the album taking too long or about him not speaking to us about the album.

see we are the normal people... The fans that actually get on their favs if they spend 14 years with no new material..  You people say you are NEW gnr fans or axl rose fans yet you act like you don't care if he ever puts anything out.. yet  you'll start threads about what new music will they play on their tour or those  lyric threads.. By the way axl doesn't move that's why we bitch.. Why be a fan of a man that never releases anything?? I ,mean shit would you rather sit there and say how many times you wet yourself listening to irs and how it's the best instant classic ever???

maybe you all rather talk about the same songs the rest of your life and dream that the massive recluse is going to rise from the pits of his basement to release the biggest gem ever recapture the world, sell 12 million albums and do a 3 year tour and drop albums every few years..  Well it's time to be realistic and stop sugar coating everything.. if it smelss like shit it most likely is shit..  A man that cowers in his house forever is not just going to magically appear one day and show up for shows and be all sociable..
At best I see the album coming out one day and maybe some kind of tour if axl can hack the three weeks then going back in his shell.. The man will not suddenly show up to all his gigs, or not throw some hissy fit if a camera enters the building... Sucha  bbad track record and people seldom change

[jameslofton29]

Dave, "people like you" have been saying the same thing since 1997. Those excuses dont work anymore. Find a new one(if its possible). This is a very interesting article. Dont you guys see the similarities to what he said in 98-99 and whats going on now? Its articles like this that make me wonder if Chinese Democracy is the hoax of a madman. How many Led Zeppelin instrumental albums can you have without ever doing vocals?

[mikegiuliana]

Dave, "people like you" have been saying the same thing since 1997. Those excuses dont work anymore. Find a new one(if its possible). This is a very interesting article. Dont you guys see the similarities to what he said in 98-99 and whats going on now? Its articles like this that make me wonder if Chinese Democracy is the hoax of a madman. How many Led Zeppelin instrumental albums can you have without ever doing vocals?

that's the thing you can be the biggest AR fan in the world just act suprised if someone says there was no vocals set down for an album that was supposed to come out. Say fuck that sucks for the guys who were in the bands.. maybe we would have had other artists in the band or at least samples of their work instead of songs possibly getting trashed..

I always read how it's the ex member's fault or this or that.. Can't anyone just say it's axl rose's fault.. This isn't the first time you have heard no vocals, or axl's sightings were few and far between,, Not only now but in the past as well with the old band..

Defending him isn't going to get you an invite on stage or a memtnion in the credits..

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Dave, "people like you" have been saying the same thing since 1997. Those excuses dont work anymore. Find a new one(if its possible). This is a very interesting article. Dont you guys see the similarities to what he said in 98-99 and whats going on now? Its articles like this that make me wonder if Chinese Democracy is the hoax of a madman. How many Led Zeppelin instrumental albums can you have without ever doing vocals?

Find a new what? Excuse? Acceptance is not an excuse or didn?t you know that? You still cannot deal with it, and I feel sorry for you. ?My life does not depend on this album coming out like it seems to you and others that always complain its still not out. ?

You also should have read my post earlier about the vocals. Like I said around 2000 Axl had vocals on the songs since Brian May heard 3 albums worth with vocals? Axl also said this album he wanted the songs done first then he would add vocals. ?Also like I said its smart of Axl not to add the vocals to the songs til the last minute just incase they leak. You do know its possible to have vocals down for a song but not layered on the song yet right?

I am just curious the don't damn me demo, the estranged demo, the other UYI demos that don't have the vocals on them from those bootleg cds, do you really think Axl was not working on the vocals at that time or had them done but just on other track?

[WAR41]

My life does not depend on this album coming out. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...... dude come on, be real.  You are on here constantly, and like some one else mentioned discussing what kinds of songs will be played on the tour.  You defend everything Axl does (like with the Brian Wilson argument).  I sometimes wonder if you would go to the extra lengths you have here to defend your own family. 

[mikegiuliana]

Also like I said its smart of Axl not to add the vocals to the songs til the last minute just incase they leak. You do know its possible to have vocals down for a song but not layered on the song yet right?

you really don't see how you find any loop hole or possible way to defend his actions and why whatever he did was right.. ever see those women that are in abusive relationships that always stick up for their man.. That's what this is like.. Never can say he is wrong or that it's his fault, just try n find some way to explain how it's smart or the right way..

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...... dude come on, be real.  You are on here constantly, and like some one else mentioned discussing what kinds of songs will be played on the tour.  You defend everything Axl does (like with the Brian Wilson argument).  I sometimes wonder if you would go to the extra lengths you have here to defend your own family. 

that's it in a nut shell.. Dave just needs to convince himself of these things..