Trent on Axl-from '95

[RichardNixon]

The Fragile, UYI, the White album=masterpieces.

Trent is God
so is Axl

I had too much Soki, damn.

[lynn1961]

I'm not familiar with the Cure.  But, I hardly think Axl was the "essence" of GnR.  He was the frontman and, therefore, more out front, but GnR had some other great people in it, without whom, it's not the same and never will be. Slash was also part of the essence of GnR.     

[ppbebe]

RichardNixon
Aye, White album is great. Nay, A human being is not God. first of all, A human exists.
What's Soki?

cause the cure is robert smith

While agreeing on what you said overall, I see this point differently.
A band is not just a person or persons. It's made of a bunch of people who share the same goals (and not necessarily the same opinions or ideas). The concept of the goals is the core of a band and Axl or Robert Smith happens to bear it. There was a stage the band was just one man for he was the only one in the band with reason for doing it and then some other great people without reason for staying there left.
Now there're people who go along with the concept and joined the band with clear sense of purpose.

Therefore, this band is completely the proper GN'R.

[lynn1961]

I disagree.  Yes, in order for a band to be successful, all should share the same goals.  But, I don't see where Axl was the one who had to "bear" it.  You said that he was "the only one in the band with reason for doing it and then some other great people without reason for staying there left".  I just think that Duff & Slash had a lot of reason for staying there.  They helped found the band.  This was their life. I think they just got very frustrated because the goal of the band was no longer a shared goal, but Axl's goal, unbending.  Since that time, other bandmembers have come & gone.  What does that say for Axl?  Sooner or later, people get tired of it.  How many times can you record & re-record stuff and not actually release anything or do a decent tour?  I'd move on.  All the present band members seem to be off doing their own thing.  Probably  because nothing is happening with GnR. What is the "proper" GnR anymore, anyway?     

[Gunner80]

It's so boring hearing people attacking somebody's music just because that person said something even remotely negative about GN'R.

Kurt Cobain (RIP) hasn't said anything about Axl in more than ten years, but a lot of GN'R fans still feel the need to bitch about Nirvana as soon as Nirvana is listed above GNR in some poll.


This is the scenario:

Artist X: "Axl shouldn't have released YYYYY/GN'R were never any good/Axl is an idiot/insert own idea here"
Several GN'R fans: "Artist X sucks/(S)he can't write anything as good as Axl/Their guitar player can't play/They're playing in bars nowadays/Nobody listens to them/etc."

It happens every fucking time.




/jarmo

Sorry dude, won't happen again.

[ppbebe]

I disagree.  Yes, in order for a band to be successful, all should share the same goals.  But, I don't see where Axl was the one who had to "bear" it.  You said that he was "the only one in the band with reason for doing it and then some other great people without reason for staying there left".  I just think that Duff & Slash had a lot of reason for staying there.  They helped found the band.  This was their life. I think they just got very frustrated because the goal of the band was no longer a shared goal, but Axl's goal, unbending.  Since that time, other bandmembers have come & gone.  What does that say for Axl?  Sooner or later, people get tired of it.  How many times can you record & re-record stuff and not actually release anything or do a decent tour?  I'd move on.  All the present band members seem to be off doing their own thing.  Probably  because nothing is happening with GnR. What is the "proper" GnR anymore, anyway?     

Whether you Agree or not, the fact that the old guys left the band implies they didn't have enough reason to be there anymore. One of them even said he didn't want to stay in the sinking ship. Instead they stayed in the partnership. This is not an ex-member bashing, BTW. their decision to move from the band they no longer belong to and to make the most of what they had done with it is none of our business and should be respected unless of course it goes beyond their own business to trouble the business of the ship they abandoned or the captain and the new crew.

Unfortunately for you, the crew are still in and doing their own stuff with the full approval of the captain. Tommy says on numerous occasions that what made him be in the band is the goals Axl revealed to him. Axl may be as slow as a donkey but he has the ballsy goals. I don't see they'll call it quits unless Axl wants them to or till they attain the aims.

If the goals were merely to be successful, to get money to beget money and to make the name make more fame, by releasing the same good classic songs by different titles, they could be set in other band and not in GN'R. IMO.

Anyways, why you try to drag in "this-is-not-GNR" shit on every occasion? Go post it in the dead horse section. Why not follow out your own words and 'move on'.

[BabyGorilla]

Typical. People attacking Trent Reznor's music because he said something negative about Axl in 1995.

Maybe we can talk about Nirvana and Kurt Cobain too soon? 


/jarmo

I am never sure why that is a bad thing. The point is Trent made a comment about axl and saying it was not a good idea to release a double album if all the songs are not strong yet a few years later he did the same thing.  Its not attacking Trent its just pointing out something ironic.

Also didnt trent and axl work on some songs together? I know Axl worked with Chris Vrenna (sp?).

Well, according to what you said in this post: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=22258.0, The Fragile is a masterpiece.

"Also gnr fans are not the only one who have waited 5 years or so for new albums.
Look at NIN and Tool fans.
Trent and Maynard both, like axl, take forever to put out albums.
And why? Because they, like axl, are perfectionist.
And it shows in their work.
They albums are always masterpieces and not just throw together."

Why did you suddenly change your opinion on the album? Cause Trent didn't like UYI?

Slash is gnr I see you are back under a new name. First off when did this change. Well that quote you got from me was from 2003 and that was before Trents last album that I did not care for but of course you did not even notice the date. Also, how is me saying that I don?t think all the songs on the fragile are not strong is bashing the albums? All the songs on UYIs are not strong either but that doesn?t mean I don?t like the albums as a whole both the UYIs and the fragile would have been much better if both were a single album. You are notorious for taking things out of context, its really a bad habit of yours, you should try and stop that.

Ok there, Inspector Gadget. Believe whatever you want about who I am but like everything else, you are wrong.

You contradicted yourself and now you are trying to Slick Willy your way out of it. The post you made was in 2003. The Fragile came out in 1999. Therefore, when you said "They albums are always masterpieces and not just throw together" (all your base are now belong to us) since all their work would mean everything up until 2003. Are you now claiming that The Fragile is still a masterpiece even though it is a double album with mediocre songs? Well, if that's the case than your definition of "masterpiece" differs from mine. To me, masterpiece means flawless. How can medicority be flawless?

[mikegiuliana]

It's so boring hearing people attacking somebody's music just because that person said something even remotely negative about GN'R.

Kurt Cobain (RIP) hasn't said anything about Axl in more than ten years, but a lot of GN'R fans still feel the need to bitch about Nirvana as soon as Nirvana is listed above GNR in some poll.


This is the scenario:

Artist X: "Axl shouldn't have released YYYYY/GN'R were never any good/Axl is an idiot/insert own idea here"
Several GN'R fans: "Artist X sucks/(S)he can't write anything as good as Axl/Their guitar player can't play/They're playing in bars nowadays/Nobody listens to them/etc."

It happens every fucking time.




/jarmo

BTW nirvana being overrated have NOTHING to do with what Kurt said about gnr. Just look at the RS list of top guitarist ever, they had Cobain above Eddie Van Halen. Nirvana always put ahead of tons of bands they should be behind not just gnr. I also dont know why people? bother to bring quotes from other people about Axl or not that are years old, and this Trent one was like 10 years old.

I understand what you are saying but it happens with everyone.. people hate vince neil because of that shit, they hate metallica because of the tour and what james said, they hate twisted sister because of some stupid cd comment he made,.. I remember people knocking ozzy when he mentioned axl n the tea leaves, the guy from queens of the stone age, etc.. it's just pretty common for hate to be thrown out there and a person'a abilities to be knocked because he might have said he dfidn't like something about axl or an album..

[BabyGorilla]

Typical. People attacking Trent Reznor's music because he said something negative about Axl in 1995.

Maybe we can talk about Nirvana and Kurt Cobain too soon? 


/jarmo

I am never sure why that is a bad thing. The point is Trent made a comment about axl and saying it was not a good idea to release a double album if all the songs are not strong yet a few years later he did the same thing.  Its not attacking Trent its just pointing out something ironic.

Also didnt trent and axl work on some songs together? I know Axl worked with Chris Vrenna (sp?).

Well, according to what you said in this post: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=22258.0, The Fragile is a masterpiece.

"Also gnr fans are not the only one who have waited 5 years or so for new albums.
Look at NIN and Tool fans.
Trent and Maynard both, like axl, take forever to put out albums.
And why? Because they, like axl, are perfectionist.
And it shows in their work.
They albums are always masterpieces and not just throw together."

Why did you suddenly change your opinion on the album? Cause Trent didn't like UYI?

Slash is gnr I see you are back under a new name. First off when did this change. Well that quote you got from me was from 2003 and that was before Trents last album that I did not care for but of course you did not even notice the date. Also, how is me saying that I don?t think all the songs on the fragile are not strong is bashing the albums? All the songs on UYIs are not strong either but that doesn?t mean I don?t like the albums as a whole both the UYIs and the fragile would have been much better if both were a single album. You are notorious for taking things out of context, its really a bad habit of yours, you should try and stop that.

Ok there, Inspector Gadget. Believe whatever you want about who I am but like everything else, you are wrong.

You contradicted yourself and now you are trying to Slick Willy your way out of it. The post you made was in 2003. The Fragile came out in 1999. Therefore, when you said "They albums are always masterpieces and not just throw together" (all your base are now belong to us) since all their work would mean everything up until 2003. Are you now claiming that The Fragile is still a masterpiece even though it is a double album with mediocre songs? Well, if that's the case than your definition of "masterpiece" differs from mine. To me, masterpiece means flawless. How can medicority be flawless?

Slashisgnr, the UYI is also a masterpiece yet it has fillers on it.

Lollyzone, your definition of masterpiece is in strike contrast to mine and probably many other. But, you are probably easily amused and have pretty low standards so I am not surprised by your habit to throw the word "masterpiece" around. Should Chinese Democracy see a release and you write that its a masterpiece, I will remember to take your opinion very lightly.

So again you really have no point.

Actually, I do have a point. My point is that before this article was posted here, you claim all of Trent Reznor's work before 2003 were "masterpieces." Now suddenly its a mediocre masterpiece which I believe is an oxymoron.

Once again in typical fashion you take things out of context which is your MO.

Once again, typical fashion of you to make a fanboyish statement and completely contradict yourself and then attempt to squeamish your way out of it.

I NEVER said the fragile was thrown together now did I?

Nobody is holding you against statements you didn't make. It's the ones you make that are held against you. First The Fragile is a masterpiece, then its mediocre, then you never said it was a masterpiece, then you say its a masterpiece with mediocre songs.

Yes the Fragile has medorice songs just like the UYIs do but it does not change the fact they are both still great albums. Like I said, both would have been better as single albums.  I am sorry if you cannot understand this simple logic.

No, I can't understand how something can be described as being flawless but still be flawed.

Also, you cannot even try to claim you are not slashisgnr

Is that your bullshit version of skepticism?

since if you were not you wouldnt know to look for a post I said in 2003.

Gee, great logic there. Like I really had to do a lot of digging to find that out. It's like the fourth topic down on the first page of the "Dead Horse" section and it has 400 replies. Its not like I was trying to find Noah's Ark.

Opps sorry you have been caught. Nice try.

Nice try by trying to divert the attention away from your contradictory statement by making this into some mistaken identity game. You've been bunked. Cut your loses cause you sound stupider by the minute.

[lynn1961]

Anyways, why you try to drag in "this-is-not-GNR" shit on every occasion? Go post it in the dead horse section. Why not follow out your own words and 'move on'.

I don't recall having said those words under this topic.  But, even when I have said it, it's only a statement of what I feel.  Sorry if it offends thee.  Furthermore, I have no plans of "moving on". Guess you'll have to just put up with me once in awhile.      

[dave-gnfnr2k]

 BabyGorilla aka Slash is gnr or what ever you want to call yourself, this is my last post toward you. So when I start ignoring you, just know I am intentionally ignoring you. The people on the board don't want to read your little vendetta against me, so I am just going to do the easiest thing to save them from your pestering of me. Stop replying to your posts. So have fun talking to yourself. Have a great stay on the boards and enjoy.
 

[rainX]

The funny thing is that Trent did the same thing in 1999 with The Fragile-a two cd set that should have been one. People who live in glass houses should not throw rocks!   I believe Geffen was behind the two cd thing back in 1991. Anyone could tell that Gnr could implode at any moment-get what you can get, when you can get it! As you can see, they were right.

thanks for pointing that out.

[BabyGorilla]

BabyGorilla aka slash is gnr, I would assume you think AFD is a masterpiece, now anything goes is far from a flawless so I guess anyone that thinks AFD is a masterpiece has low standards or is being contradictory right? Using your logic then I guess that must be the case.  So I guess everyone on this board that thinks AFD is a masterpiece has low standards that is a pretty bold statement even for you.

Your argument is riddled with so many fallacies that it is hard to take them serious. You draw conclusions based on assumptions in order to prove your point. I find this hypocritical for someone who always claims that his statements are taken out of context and accuses others of putting words in his mouth.

First off all, you are wrong in assuming that I think AFD is a masterpiece. I like the album very much but I personally do not feel it is a masterpiece. There are only about four albums which I think are masterpieces and none of which are Guns N' Roses albums and none of which feature any former or present GNR members.

Secondly, if you reread my statement, I do not make the claim that anybody who thinks AFD is a masterpiece has low standard. I said you have low standards if you feel an album which contains mediocre and "filler" songs are deemed masterpieces. In my eyes, calling something a masterpiece is the ultimate form of approval and flattery towards someone's work. If you choose to give the title of a masterpiece to something which you admit suffers from mediocrity than I think the standards which you use to judge an album are low. If anybody calls AFD a masterpiece but also says that some songs are mediocre than I will also tell them that their standards on how they base an album are low. If someone says AFD is a masterpiece and they love every song on the album than I have no problem with that. We seem to be in disagreement with where we draw the line. You are assuming that I am calling anybody with an opinion different than mine to have low standards. What I am saying is if your definition of masterpiece is a work that contains some mediocrity than I think your standard of judgement is low.

You really do not have a point since you have different criteria for a masterpiece as I and others do. So you have no leg to stand on. Here is something you should really understand, no album is flawless and music is subject. That is one thing you could never comprehend.

You contradicted yourself again. You say music is subjective (which I agree) and then you say no album is flawless as if that statement applies to everyone when it really just applies to you. So really, you cannot comprehend your own statement.

Its one thing to have a different criteria for how you critique an album but what you said about The Fragile was a contradiction. Its like saying you love an album but then saying the album is kinda average and mundane at the same time.

As for me contradicting myself you still have not proven that but hey keep claiming that if it makes you sleep better at night.  I also love how you bring up something being flawless yet being flawed. Who ever said the UYIs or the Fragile was flawless? The answer is, nobody did. Those are your words not mine or did you know realize that?

Masterpiece and mediocre are two very contradictory words. If I were to say "The new Harry Potter book is a masterpiece but is also very mediocre" you mean to tell me that this is not a contradiction?

Judging by your previous post where you try to deny the fact that you made such a statement, I think that is proof enough for me that you know you contradicted yourself and you are now is the stages of denial.

The fact is if you were not slash is gnr you would not even know to look for that topic about Trent and Maynard now would you? Oh you are caught again. You really need to try harder if you want to pretend you are not slash is gnr. Its so obvious it?s not even funny.

In your warped mind you somehow think that anybody who has a problem with anything you say must be the same person and nobody else could possible find anything wrong with your statements. Obviously, since you can't refute what I am saying you must try to invalidate it by making false allegations as if it matters more of who says it rather that what is said.

If you really must know, you yourself indirectly lead me to that post. In another post, you linked to a poll regarding Rhiad. That post was under the Dead Horse section and under that section is where I stumbled upon the your "Chinese Democracy frustration" post. When I read how you described Trent's work and later say it is mediocre, I thought I would call you out on your BS.

So next time you want to claim something and not back it up please have your facts straight so you don?t end up with egg on your face. Thanks.

Just because you are in denial and ignore my evidence doesn't mean I didn't support it. I use your own words against you. Don't get mad at me, get mad at yourself.

[AxlsMainMan]

the UYI is also a masterpiece yet it has fillers on it. So again you really have no point. Once again in typical fashion you take things out of context which is your MO. ?I NEVER said the fragile was thrown together now did I? Yes the Fragile has medorice songs just like the UYIs do but it does not change the fact they are both still great albums. Like I said, both would have been better as single albums.

I agree entirely with your logic there. I think part of UYI's charm was the fact that you personally had to dig deep around the "filler" material and allow the epic songs to captivate you and addict you until you had mo alternitive but to enjoy the albums as the masterpieces they were. I really dont ponder "what if UYI was one album?" anymore. That wasn't Axl's, nor GnR's intention for the the material to be heard in that way, and as one poster said already, the more material the better. As for AFD being a masterpiece, your'e absolutely correct, I just view Anything goes as "filler" and Your'e Crazy as mediocre compared to the acoustic version.

[AxlsMainMan]

the UYI is also a masterpiece yet it has fillers on it. So again you really have no point. Once again in typical fashion you take things out of context which is your MO. ?I NEVER said the fragile was thrown together now did I? Yes the Fragile has medorice songs just like the UYIs do but it does not change the fact they are both still great albums. Like I said, both would have been better as single albums.

I agree entirely with your logic there. I think part of UYI's charm was the fact that you personally had to dig deep around the "filler" material and allow the epic songs to captivate you and addict you until you had mo alternitive but to enjoy the albums as the masterpieces they were. I really dont ponder "what if UYI was one album?" anymore. That wasn't Axl's, nor GnR's intention for the the material to be heard in that way, and as one poster said already, the more material the better. As for AFD being a masterpiece, your'e absolutely correct, I just view Anything goes as "filler" and Your'e Crazy as mediocre compared to the acoustic version.

Oh? trust me my logic is just fine. I am not worried about that at all.? My point was, you can put a lot of work into an album, take? your time, and it can be a masterpiece but have a few filler songs on it. Saying something cannot be a masterpiece because its not perfect is impossible, since no album ever made is perfect.?

  Your preaching to the choir there dude. Well..maybe no perfect albums except for Judas Priest's "Painkiller", or Floyd's "Darkside".

[BabyGorilla]

the UYI is also a masterpiece yet it has fillers on it. So again you really have no point. Once again in typical fashion you take things out of context which is your MO.  I NEVER said the fragile was thrown together now did I? Yes the Fragile has medorice songs just like the UYIs do but it does not change the fact they are both still great albums. Like I said, both would have been better as single albums.

I agree entirely with your logic there. I think part of UYI's charm was the fact that you personally had to dig deep around the "filler" material and allow the epic songs to captivate you and addict you until you had mo alternitive but to enjoy the albums as the masterpieces they were. I really dont ponder "what if UYI was one album?" anymore. That wasn't Axl's, nor GnR's intention for the the material to be heard in that way, and as one poster said already, the more material the better. As for AFD being a masterpiece, your'e absolutely correct, I just view Anything goes as "filler" and Your'e Crazy as mediocre compared to the acoustic version.

Oh  trust me my logic is just fine. I am not worried about that at all.  My point was, you can put a lot of work into an album, take  your time, and it can be a masterpiece but have a few filler songs on it. Saying something cannot be a masterpiece because its not perfect is impossible, since no album ever made is perfect. 

Is there anything else you would like to add? You have stated that a masterpiece can have traces of mediocrity. Are their any corollary you would like to add to that statement. If so now is your time because I found something else that you posted which is an even bigger contradiction to anything that you said about The Fragile. Now is time to totally and fully express what you have to say because there is no way to Slick Willy your way out of what I am about to post. Either admit you contradicted yourself and I will save you the embarrassment or continue on with your denial.

[jarmo]

Main Entry: mas?ter?piece
Pronunciation: 'mas-t&r-"pEs
Function: noun
1 : a work done with extraordinary skill; especially : a supreme intellectual or artistic achievement
2 : a piece of work presented to a medieval guild as evidence of qualification for the rank of master


I gues the UYI albums were a supreme artistic achievement. Getting those guys to record and finish 30 songs is an achievement! Then the albums topped the charts! 



/jarmo

[BabyGorilla]

"Also gnr fans are not the only one who have waited 5 years or so for new albums.
Look at NIN and Tool fans.
Trent and Maynard both, like axl, take forever to put out albums.
And why? Because they, like axl, are perfectionist.
And it shows in their work.
They albums are always masterpieces and not just throw together."

Sir, did you ever make this comment in reference to Tool:  "Great band but their last album sucked. I hope the newer one will be more like the first two and EP than the last album which was very boring." Can a masterpiece also be described as being "sucky?" You stretched your definition of masterpiece to include mediocrity. Are you going to now say an album can suck and still be a masterpiece?

Also, when discussing The Fragile and the UYI albums you said they were masterpieces but had mediocre filler songs. Can you elaborate on how many "fillers" an album can have and still be considered a masterpiece by you? You said that both albums should have just been one single album. Doing so would mean scrapping half the songs which is about 12 songs. That's a lot of fillers for something that you claim is a "masterpiece."

[lynn1961]

Hate to sound like a broken record here (sorry ppbebe, put your hands over your ears), but 5 yrs is one thing.  12 is another.  12 is stretching it a little bit.  I could wait 5 yrs, not 12. 

[BabyGorilla]

The difference being that although the wait between a NIN or Tool album is relatively long, they do not spend that time working on the same project. Maynard has his side project with APC and Trent has done work on other projects like Doom III (which never made it to the final version). It's not like Trent was bunkered in the studio for six years working on With Teeth like Axl has been working on Chinese Democracy for nine years. Also, there isn't an exact science to making a great album. Taking more time does not necessarily equal better quality.