Tape shows New Orleans cops beating black man

[gilld1]

Sounded like a pretty "white" answer to me.  You say King deserved getting beat like that and then you said the media blows these cases out of proportion, the typical white defense.  These acts by the police can not be justified and those who try tend to be racists so if the shoe fits...

[SLCPUNK]

Nobody deserves to be brutalized like King or this guy in N.O.  Especially by cops.  I sure would hate to be them if they get convicted but what are the chances of that in the South?

I think the public outcry will overshadow where it is taking place. I hope so anyway.

no, but because you seem to take the "white" side in defense regardless, without knowing the case at all. you're quick to twist it around ain't you, blaming the "looters". why don't you attack the white "searchers" too.

What white side? I haven't seen the video yet so I don't even know if all the cops were white. I don't know if the force was warranted in this case.

Right, but you sure turned around real quick and started talking about all the criminals in that city. Seems to me you were trying to overshadow the actions of the cops. I know you guys are used to changing the subject and all.....

[Charity Case]

You guys show outrage at 2 cops' actions following Katrina, and you show outrage at the way we SUPPOSEDLY treat prisoners of war in Iraq, but you show zero outrage at the looters and rapists after Katrina and zero outrage at the way Al Quada treats prisoners of war (i.e. cuts their heads off).  And then you wonder why it is hard to sympathize with your view points.  Maybe if you guys just once saw outrage in some of these more outrageous things other non leftist extremeists would see your point of view more clearly.  But when you condemn 2 cops without knowledge of context and then get upset when someone mentions the hundreds of looters and rapists, your opinions hold no weight for the rest of us.

I agree with Guns, let the legal system sort it out.  If they are guilty then they should be punished.  No problem with that.  In the same vein, all of those looters should be punished as well.  And I have no idea how you can see this as a black or white thing.  It is non-racial. 

[Guns N RockMusic]

I agree whole heartedly that these cops should be punished if they broke the law (and preliminary findings sho they did).  However, our legal system labels someone as innocent until proven guilty.  With the media, they destroy that and thus harm the rights and lives of real innocents.  As Charity Case said, it just amazes me that you all get worked up over one beating (thank God the man wasn't seriously injured) but actually defend those who raped and looted (not food folks) or turn a blind eye.  Why the double standard and why not let all the information come to light first?  If being objective and wanting more information before I advocate prison for two cops makes me a "racist" in your opinions, that's just more reason for me value your opinions even less.

[pilferk]

I agree whole heartedly that these cops should be punished if they broke the law (and preliminary findings sho they did).? However, our legal system labels someone as innocent until proven guilty.? With the media, they destroy that and thus harm the rights and lives of real innocents.? As Charity Case said, it just amazes me that you all get worked up over one beating (thank God the man wasn't seriously injured) but actually defend those who raped and looted (not food folks) or turn a blind eye.? Why the double standard and why not let all the information come to light first?? If being objective and wanting more information before I advocate prison for two cops makes me a "racist" in your opinions, that's just more reason for me value your opinions even less.

Can you point me to the specific posts made where someone defended those, specifically, who were raping and looting in NO after the hurricane?

Or posts that specifically did not condem, or in some way condoned, AQ's treatment of prisoners by cutting off heads, etc?

Thanks.

[Guns N RockMusic]

I agree whole heartedly that these cops should be punished if they broke the law (and preliminary findings sho they did).? However, our legal system labels someone as innocent until proven guilty.? With the media, they destroy that and thus harm the rights and lives of real innocents.? As Charity Case said, it just amazes me that you all get worked up over one beating (thank God the man wasn't seriously injured) but actually defend those who raped and looted (not food folks) or turn a blind eye.? Why the double standard and why not let all the information come to light first?? If being objective and wanting more information before I advocate prison for two cops makes me a "racist" in your opinions, that's just more reason for me value your opinions even less.

Can you point me to the specific posts made where someone defended those, specifically, who were raping and looting in NO after the hurricane?

Or posts that specifically did not condem, or in some way condoned, AQ's treatment of prisoners by cutting off heads, etc?

Thanks.

Can you point me to the post where anyone who isn't labeled a conservative advocated  they be punished?? Kayne West anyone?:? ?http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=22401.msg388034#msg388034? The debate had many people defending the looting and saying that police had bigger things to worry about than looters.? They wanted to turn a blind eye to those actions so they could keep the foucs on Bush.?


edited due to poor wording

[sandman]

it's interesting that people accuse others of taking the "white" point of view. i think that comment is racist.

i think cops should be given alot of slack when it comes to these situations. and there's plenty of blacks that agree with me.

cops have to make a judgement call in a stressful situation, when their life is on the line. but if it's completely obvious that they continued to strike someone unnecessarily when the criminal was subdued, then they should be punished.

but if a black cop is trying to arrest a white guy who's high on crack, and the white guy is fighting back, the black cop should be able to crack his skull with his stick to get him down.

[pilferk]

Can you point me to the post where anyone who isn't labeled a conservative did?? Kayne West anyone?:? ?http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=22401.msg388034#msg388034? The debate had many people defending the looting and saying that police had bigger things to worry about than looters.? They wanted to turn a blind eye to those actions so they could keep the foucs on Bush.?

Unfortunately for you....you made the claim, and thus the burden of proof is on you. ?You make a very specific accusation about defending people who raped and looted after NO or AQ members who cut the head off prisoners. ?

I'm not sure if you know...but I'm not Kanye West. ?I'm pretty sure SLC isn't either. ? As a matter of fact, I doubt he posts here (he doesn't strike me as a GnR fan) In addition, you said :

"As Charity Case said, it just amazes me that you all get worked up over one beating (thank God the man wasn't seriously injured) but actually defend those who raped and looted (not food folks) or turn a blind eye."

The phrase "you all" would mean you were addressing the people you were "speaking" to. ?YOU ALL get worked up and YOU all defend those. ?

So, again...you have any proof of that? ?Since you're addressing the readership of this board, and SLC in particular since he was the post that Charity responded to........

And that thread you linked? ?Nothing there about the looters, really. ?Not in the whole topic. ?No discussion at all. ?Certainly no one defending the looters, rapers, or AQ members.

[Guns N RockMusic]

Can you point me to the post where anyone who isn't labeled a conservative did?? Kayne West anyone?:? ?http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=22401.msg388034#msg388034? The debate had many people defending the looting and saying that police had bigger things to worry about than looters.? They wanted to turn a blind eye to those actions so they could keep the foucs on Bush.?

Unfortunately for you....you made the claim, and thus the burden of proof is on you. ?You make a very specific accusation about defending people who raped and looted after NO or AQ members who cut the head off prisoners. ?I never mentioned AQ, so don't accuse me of linking the two.  However Cindy Sheehan has defended Iraqi Insurgent who are backed by AQ and many board members support her.  Satisfied?

I'm not sure if you know...but I'm not Kanye West. ?I'm pretty sure SLC isn't either. ? As a matter of fact, I doubt he posts here (he doesn't strike me as a GnR fan) In addition, you said :

"As Charity Case said, it just amazes me that you all get worked up over one beating (thank God the man wasn't seriously injured) but actually defend those who raped and looted (not food folks) or turn a blind eye."

The phrase "you all" would mean you were addressing the people you were "speaking" to. ?YOU ALL get worked up and YOU all defend those. ?

So, again...you have any proof of that? ?Since you're addressing the readership of this board, and SLC in particular since he was the post that Charity responded to........

And that thread you linked? ?Nothing there about the looters, really. ?Not in the whole topic. ?No discussion at all. ?Certainly no one defending the looters, rapers, or AQ members.

Where did I mention AQ?  Don't confuse my post with Charity Case's please.  You all is a general term pointed at those reactionary members - no specific names were mentioned.  In fact, SLC said in the Katrina thread

"These SCUM OF THE EARTH who are beating, stealing and raping should be killed on the spot, or if taken alive tried for treason."

I don't make it a point to argue with SLC regardless of what you think.  My point was and is that certain members of the board are sympathetic to looters which was shown in the post I cited above but jump to conclusions about one incident.

[Guns N RockMusic]

I'll admit that I was wrong in stating that no one other than "conservatives" advocated for the punishment of looters.? I stand corrected and part of my response to Pilferk was inaccurate.

[pilferk]

[
I never mentioned AQ, so don't accuse me of linking the two.? However Cindy Sheehan has defended Iraqi Insurgent who are backed by AQ and many board members support her.? Satisfied??

Nope, because it's not proof. It's a slipperly slope.? ?Agreeing with her right to speak, or some of her ideology, does not mean you support every word she utters.

?In addition, you endorsed Charity's viewpoint with an agreement of sentiment and referenced the particular passage I addressed.? I assumed you meant all of it.? If I was incorrect, I apologize.

Where did I mention AQ?? Don't confuse my post with Charity Case's please.? You all is a general term pointed at those reactionary members - no specific names were mentioned.?

You agreed, in sum total, with his post and then levied the accusation of defense.

In addition, you all is a very specific term targeted at your audience. It's not, at all, general. Perhaps you should edit the post if you'd like to change it's meaning (now that you've been proven incorrect).

I don't make it a point to argue with SLC regardless of what you think.? My point was and is that certain members of the board are sympathetic to looters which was shown in the post I cited above but jump to conclusions about one incident.

The post you linked doesn't, at all, show "that certain members of the board are sympathetic to looters ". ?I see one post POSSIBLY being sympathetic, but even that's a stretch. ?And it certainly isn't defending them, which is the claim you actually made in your post.

So, I'll clarify, since you seem to want to stick to the AQ reference, rather than address the actual point:

Please show me a post, anywhere on this board, that defends looters and rapists in NO, or anywhere else?

[Skeba]

I agree, that those police officers should be punished for what they did.. But also, I think, the conditions should be taken into concideration. 1) That the police over there have had to work unbelieveably long shifts (some have had to sleep in their patrol cars,) since there are just not enough policemen, and  2) at least in the Finnish media it has been mentioned that the man had resisted arrest before the incident took place.

I know what they did was wrong, and there is nothing to make it right, but if you imagine yourself into a situation where you've been working really long shifts, and then there's a guy making your job a hell of a lot more difficult just because... It just might drive someone over the edge. I haven't seen the video, so I can't say how badly they beat the man up, so I can't say if this was the case. Just saying that it's a possibility, and if so - it should be taken into concideration when they're given their penalties.. The city is in a pretty tight spot at the moment. They lack fresh policemen since many have quit, and some have even commited suicides, and keeping the tired men out there is not really helping, but it's the only thing they can do.

[Axl_owns_dexter]

Guns N' Rock Music...didn't you know that if you don't take the black guys side, without having any of the facts, that you are a racist.

Its the first rule of political correctness 101.   


Sarcasm off

[Charity Case]

pilferk, all semantics aside, the point being made here is we come to this board and see certain members start threads that deal with specific issues like cops beating someone in NO or mistreatment of prisoners of war in Iraq. ?These issues often times have a relationship with or close connection to other more sinister acts that otherwise get ignored by the same people. ?

For example, I have seen plenty of discussion and outrage on this board over the mistreatment of prisoners of war by the US in Iraq and very little if no outrage or discussion over the way the enemy treats its prisoners of war. ?Why do you think that is? ?Why the inequity in outrage especially when given that what the US has done is basically hazing and the enemy is beheading prisoners? ?Why do you think certain people here would rather discuss the US's mistreatment and not Al Quada's beheadings og their prisoners? ?I can think of only one reason, to promote anti-Americanism. ?I would love to hear any toher reason you can think of. ?Maybe you will enlighten us.

[pilferk]

On the acutal situation...I'm reserving judgement.

I've seen the tape, and it seems to start as the beating is already pretty much in progress/ the "incident" has already began. ?Given that....without having some more info, it's tough to condemn the cops.

That being said, I think they used excessive force, given the situation (I'm not a cop, though, so...). ?The guy is brittle as paper. I have to think they could have subdued him using a bit less than they did. ? Whether they should be severely punished depends on whether the force was warrented or not. ?If he resisted, they are within their rights to use force (and let IA decide if it was excessive or not). ? If not.....they should be punished.

Simple as that.

[Axl_owns_dexter]

I'll reserve my judgement.  Remember, during the Rodney King incident, the media liked to skip over the part where Rodney (a very large man) was going after the policemen.  It wouldn't surprise me if they were leaving out pertinent information in this case too.  It happens all too often.

[pilferk]

pilferk, all semantics aside, the point being made here is we come to this board and see certain members start threads that deal with specific issues like cops beating someone in NO or mistreatment of prisoners of war in Iraq. ?These issues often times have a relationship with or close connection to other more sinister acts that otherwise get ignored by the same people. ?

For example, I have seen plenty of discussion and outrage on this board over the mistreatment of prisoners of war by the US in Iraq and very little if no outrage or discussion over the way the enemy treats its prisoners of war. ?Why do you think that is? ?Why the inequity in outrage especially when given that what the US has done is basically hazing and the enemy is beheading prisoners? ?Why do you think certain people here would rather discuss the US's mistreatment and not Al Quada's beheadings og their prisoners? ?I can think of only one reason, to promote anti-Americanism. ?I would love to hear any toher reason you can think of. ?Maybe you will enlighten us.

Why do I think that is? ?Because I think a conversation about the outrage of the way enemies treat our POW's would be pretty much along the lines of this:

God, I'm outraged

Yup, me too.

Oh yeah, me too. We should go in there and gut those motherfuckers who did this.

See how that goes? ?There's not a whole lot of discussion. ?I've seen the exact types of threads you want to see...they die quickly. ?It doesn't mean we're not all outraged. ?It means there isn't much point to the discussion because the overwhelming sentiment is going to be identical, or nearly so (unless Walk posts there, that is...and we get a good chuckle), so many posters will read that THEIR opinion has been expressed already and move on.

As for why you see more threads like this one...it's an easy answer. ?They promote discussion. ?It's the same reason you see more US political threads than, say, French or UK political threads.

If you want to see threads on those subjects (meaning AQ treatment of our POW's..not French and UK politics)...start 'em. ?I'll chime in with some healthy outrage and condemnation. We might be the only ones, though.

[Genesis]

pilferk, all semantics aside, the point being made here is we come to this board and see certain members start threads that deal with specific issues like cops beating someone in NO or mistreatment of prisoners of war in Iraq. 

Sure we start threads on such issues. But such threads form about 1% of our total posts. However, u (and some others here) seem to post only in these threads. How come I never see u post in any other section?

Given that....without having some more info, it's tough to condemn the cops.

The guy is 64 yrs old, for goodness sake. What is he going to do against 4 cops?

[Axl_owns_dexter]

How about innocent until proven guilty.  Why are you so quick to condemn the cops without all the evidence?  What is your agenda?

[pilferk]

The guy is 64 yrs old, for goodness sake. What is he going to do against 4 cops?

IF he resisted arrest, the use of force was justified. ?The determination of "excessive force" is one best made by an independant member of the police department. ?Being a civilian, I look a the tape and think the amount of force used was excessive...but, the fact of the matter is...those cops are the ones risking their lives AND trained at subduing a suspect.

As I said, if the force wasn't justified, they deserve to be severely punished. ?If it was excessive, but justified, it's probably something best left to IA to deal with.