US poverty: chronic ill, little hope for cure

[Guns N RockMusic]

So SLC when you quote an editorial from the new york times or some other liberal rag, that's an acceptable news source.  But when someone posts a news article from Fox News (which is credible no matter how much you deny it) you denounce it because you don't like what it has to say.  The reality is that certain politicians and interest groups are distorting the reality of what defines poor in America.

Yeah, lets just cut off all aid to the poor because they have TVs and maybe a car. I don't think we are talking big screen plasma tvs here. There is a societal pressure for people to accumulate nice things. Poor people want nice things too and get them at the costs of healthy food , for example. I teach at a very poor school and I see kids wearing the same clothes for 2-3 days ina row but they have a PS2 and all that shit. I can't explain it but taking away aid is not the answer, it would only hurt the kids in the long run.

Then you really shouldn't be posting it here.  You can't explain that maybe the reason these people are poor in the first place is because they can't manage their money.  Rather than buy enough clothes and save up to get off the government dime, they spend and buy with my tax money nice toys for their kids then send them to school to get a free lunch.  Then you come here advocating that we should throw more money their way; what next poor kids with mustangs coming to school but dirty clothes.

Popmetal and Walk provide you with reality and you all go nuts because it destorys the liberal fantasy world you all live in.  Some of you really amaze me.  If people have AC, dvd players, multiple cars and own their house, then maybe they're not that poor.  This is America, we don't protect people from being fuckin' retarded.  If I advocated that we ban all poor people from having kids (which I'm not) to cut down on poverty you'd all label me racist/fascist/SLC and Co's choice word of the day. yet that would be the same amount of government power that you all advocate for but would actually solve the problem.

Just because you don't like the facts doesn't mean you can dismiss them.  Un-fuckin-real

[jarmo]

POPTARD

I know you two don't like each other, but is it necessary to keep it at that level?

I'm becoming more and more convinced that politics should be kept out of the board so we could have a 100% fun off topic section with things like the "post a word thread". It certainly would make moderating a lot easier since we wouldn't have to "babysit" adults.



/jarmo

[the dirt]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that politics should be kept out of the board

I'm more convinced of having a baby board as part of the Jungle. Invariably, some Jungle topics will veer toward political opinion, but it's worth a shot.

so we could have a 100% fun off topic section with things like the "post a word thread".

Just create a thread like this called "one word post count boost".


 

[Charity Case]

You know what I notice in my neck of the woods.  How come sometimes when I go to the supermarket there is someone in front of me who is on food stamps and she weighs 250 lbs and her kids look like they haven't eaten in weeks?  Then she proceeds to swear at her starving kids, buy cigarettes and beer with cash and then buy potato chips and cookies with food stamps.  This is not a sterotype.  This is what I actually often see when I go to the grocery store.  I'm sure most Americans see this from time to time.  I'm not sure how you can be poor and 250 pounds.  Those things always seemed to be in conflict with one another.

Also, about some that fall into the "poor" category.  I don't want a dime of my tax money going to support a women who has a kid that she can't afford to have in the first place.  If you are poor and can't afford a child, then don't have them.  It's pretty easy to not get pregnant and cost me money.  This is one of my biggest pet-peeves.  I don't think we should financially support people who could avoid this in the first place.  I know liberals will disagree , but giving my money to someone like this is absurd.

slc, someone finally gave you some 'facts' that so often ask for and you didn't like it.  Your rant was the funniest thing I've seen in a while.  Fox News isn't good enough for you but the NY Times is.  LOL    

[Walk]

I know this 400 lb woman who gets welfare because she's "disabled".  She got that way from watching TV all day and eating unhealthy food. She's just a heart attack waiting to happen.

[gilld1]

So lets stop the aid to ALL because some abuse it?  Is that what is being said here?  The poor are often obese because of the types of food they buy (cheap) versus healthy fruits and veggies (expensive).  Another myth that has been brought up is the welfare mom.  They don't actually get all that much more money per child.  Maybe a few hundred dollars more.  Also, most are white which is quite opposite of the stereotype. 

Guns n Blanks, yes, it's quite obvious that the govt can not stop people like you from being retarded.  If there were IQ requirements for breeding then your parents would have been on the outside looking in!

[SLCPUNK]

So lets stop the aid to ALL because some abuse it?  Is that what is being said here?  The poor are often obese because of the types of food they buy (cheap) versus healthy fruits and veggies (expensive).  Another myth that has been brought up is the welfare mom.  They don't actually get all that much more money per child.  Maybe a few hundred dollars more.  Also, most are white which is quite opposite of the stereotype. 

Well this is the argument really from their side.

Take away the human element of being poor. By attacking the person/group who is poor, and blame the victims of poverty for the wrong doings of a minority in that class.

So why is it so important to feed the poor around the world, yet beat up on our poor? That is all I ever hear from the right is how we (which is false) give more help than any other country in the world. But then when it is time to help our poor, our needy, our sick, in the streets...it's fuck you time.

What's up with the doublespeak?

[SLCPUNK]

So SLC when you quote an editorial from the new york times or some other liberal rag, that's an acceptable news source.  But when someone posts a news article from Fox News (which is credible no matter how much you deny it) you denounce it because you don't like what it has to say.  The reality is that certain politicians and interest groups are distorting the reality of what defines poor in America.

I posted that for what it was: an opinion piece.

They posted the Fox article as a fact. Two different things. Plus, OBVIOUSLY you did not read my response to it. As usual ignore the point, and change the subject.

I will not repeat myself with you guy, reread my post. Have somebody help you with it if you are not able to understand what I wrote.

As for Fox being a credible news source that is a joke. Media matters (among others) finds half truths, opinions and blatant lies on a daily basis with Fox. Murdock has had his ass sued off in Europe for his Fox affiliate reporting false stories over there. Our laws are much more lax, so he can get away with the shit he does here. But in Europe he toned it waaaaay down after losing in court.

Fox uses Talking Heads as 83 percent of their broadcasts. The rest is actual reporting. This is not something I would consider journalism, nor does anybody who holds journalism to a high standard.

[Charity Case]

That is all I ever hear from the right is how we (which is false) give more help than any other country in the world.

Who gives more aid to the poor in this world than the US?  I'd like to see the numbers.  You may be right, but I'd still like to see the numbers.  And don't show me some percentages of population numbers or contribution by GNP....the bottom line number that matters is totally contributed by a country.  Who gives more than the US? 


Seems to me that the liberals want to spend my money to help the often times stupid and lazy.  I disagree with doing that.  I don't mind spending my money to help the poor on a temporary basis to help them get their footing if they fall on hard times, but I don't think government should fund the stupid or the perpetually lazy (and there are too many welfare recipients who fall into this category).  If you cannot afford a kid and you have one anyway, then it should be your tough luck and you should deal with your stupidity on your own.  Get a third job, find a husband, or otherwise deal with it on your own.

And saying that poor people are fat because they eat bad foods because that's all they can afford is ridiculous.  An apple or a banana cost next to nothing.  Chips Ahoy and Oreos are over $3 a bag.

[Guns N RockMusic]

So lets stop the aid to ALL because some abuse it?? Is that what is being said here?? The poor are often obese because of the types of food they buy (cheap) versus healthy fruits and veggies (expensive).? Another myth that has been brought up is the welfare mom.? They don't actually get all that much more money per child.? Maybe a few hundred dollars more.? Also, most are white which is quite opposite of the stereotype.?

Guns n Blanks, yes, it's quite obvious that the govt can not stop people like you from being retarded.? If there were IQ requirements for breeding then your parents would have been on the outside looking in!

You want to make personal attacks, fine nothing I and others aren't used to around here.  Reality is that your post makes no economic or logical sense.  It's purely reactionary and emotional.  You think we should give more money to "poor" people because they buy PS2s rather than nice clothes.  If that makes any rational sense to you at all, maybe you should take an IQ test before you pop out some leaches into the world.

I hate big government, but when you're on my tax money, than your right to privacy is nullified.  These "poor" people should have a credit card by which all their govt money is on and they should be barred from purchasing any name brand or un necessary foods - meaning pop, candy, beer cigarettes etc.  Some states try to get a good program for welfare types, like Michigan.  BUt the Michael Moore just makes a movie and distorts reality so all of you can come here and praise that fat fuck for his genius.  Now enlighten me with some more intelligent responses.

[Guns N RockMusic]

So SLC when you quote an editorial from the new york times or some other liberal rag, that's an acceptable news source.? But when someone posts a news article from Fox News (which is credible no matter how much you deny it) you denounce it because you don't like what it has to say.? The reality is that certain politicians and interest groups are distorting the reality of what defines poor in America.

I posted that for what it was: an opinion piece.

They posted the Fox article as a fact. Two different things. Plus, OBVIOUSLY you did not read my response to it. As usual ignore the point, and change the subject.

I will not repeat myself with you guy, reread my post. Have somebody help you with it if you are not able to understand what I wrote.

As for Fox being a credible news source that is a joke. Media matters (among others) finds half truths, opinions and blatant lies on a daily basis with Fox. Murdock has had his ass sued off in Europe for his Fox affiliate reporting false stories over there. Our laws are much more lax, so he can get away with the shit he does here. But in Europe he toned it waaaaay down after losing in court.

Fox uses Talking Heads as 83 percent of their broadcasts. The rest is actual reporting. This is not something I would consider journalism, nor does anybody who holds journalism to a high standard.

No SLC, I didn't confuse what you said, you just don't like being called a hypocrite (which seems to be your new choice word - I miss biggot).  O'Reilly himself has said a million times that he is a commentator; just like Moore and Franklen.  If you can't divide the two concepts, that's on you.  This material however is cited and valid.  Just because it breaks down your little fantasy world doesn't mean you can discard it as garbage.

[Surfrider]

if someone with a foreign accent tries to sell me something , i politely tell them to piss off

Somehow I think if someone from America made this quote they would be considered a racist.

its just exaggerated banter...do you really think i answer sales calls with a piss off statement?...they just get on my nerves, i have work to do

Certainly I don't think you are.  I am just saying there are others that have been called a racist for less.

[SLCPUNK]

So SLC when you quote an editorial from the new york times or some other liberal rag, that's an acceptable news source.  But when someone posts a news article from Fox News (which is credible no matter how much you deny it) you denounce it because you don't like what it has to say.  The reality is that certain politicians and interest groups are distorting the reality of what defines poor in America.

I posted that for what it was: an opinion piece.

They posted the Fox article as a fact. Two different things. Plus, OBVIOUSLY you did not read my response to it. As usual ignore the point, and change the subject.

I will not repeat myself with you guy, reread my post. Have somebody help you with it if you are not able to understand what I wrote.

As for Fox being a credible news source that is a joke. Media matters (among others) finds half truths, opinions and blatant lies on a daily basis with Fox. Murdock has had his ass sued off in Europe for his Fox affiliate reporting false stories over there. Our laws are much more lax, so he can get away with the shit he does here. But in Europe he toned it waaaaay down after losing in court.

Fox uses Talking Heads as 83 percent of their broadcasts. The rest is actual reporting. This is not something I would consider journalism, nor does anybody who holds journalism to a high standard.

No SLC, I didn't confuse what you said, you just don't like being called a hypocrite (which seems to be your new choice word - I miss biggot).  O'Reilly himself has said a million times that he is a commentator; just like Moore and Franklen.  If you can't divide the two concepts, that's on you.  This material however is cited and valid.  Just because it breaks down your little fantasy world doesn't mean you can discard it as garbage.

Moore doesn't hide by cutting mics off and ending segments. He posts his sources on his website for everybody to see.

Again, the material cited, was not what I asked for. You either refuse to admit this, or do not read the posts, because I have explained in detail that I was not asking him to back up the "poor people have tvs" comment.

Why do I keep repeating myself?

And why do you keep telling me that I deny the "facts" that I didn't ask for (and am not talking about)?

This is your only way to argue? Change the subject, ignore what I said and press on? You always talk about your political degree. Did they teach you to lie in school and change the subject so you could attack people? Or is this just some "PP" trait you have on your own?

What you are doing is what O'reilly does. You guys are little Fox robots, all wound up and ready to go.

[SLCPUNK]

That is all I ever hear from the right is how we (which is false) give more help than any other country in the world.

Who gives more aid to the poor in this world than the US?  I'd like to see the numbers.  You may be right, but I'd still like to see the numbers.

Look it up yourself. The only thing that will happen if I look it up and post it: is you ignoring it and asking me to post it again.....

[SLCPUNK]

So lets stop the aid to ALL because some abuse it?  Is that what is being said here?  The poor are often obese because of the types of food they buy (cheap) versus healthy fruits and veggies (expensive).  Another myth that has been brought up is the welfare mom.  They don't actually get all that much more money per child.  Maybe a few hundred dollars more.  Also, most are white which is quite opposite of the stereotype. 

Guns n Blanks, yes, it's quite obvious that the govt can not stop people like you from being retarded.  If there were IQ requirements for breeding then your parents would have been on the outside looking in!

You want to make personal attacks, fine nothing I and others aren't used to around here.  Reality is that your post makes no economic or logical sense.  It's purely reactionary and emotional.  You think we should give more money to "poor" people because they buy PS2s rather than nice clothes.  If that makes any rational sense to you at all, maybe you should take an IQ test before you pop out some leaches into the world.

I hate big government, but when you're on my tax money, than your right to privacy is nullified.  These "poor" people should have a credit card by which all their govt money is on and they should be barred from purchasing any name brand or un necessary foods - meaning pop, candy, beer cigarettes etc.  Some states try to get a good program for welfare types, like Michigan.  BUt the Michael Moore just makes a movie and distorts reality so all of you can come here and praise that fat fuck for his genius.  Now enlighten me with some more intelligent responses.

Coporate welfare takes more out of your pocket then any poor person ever would. But you already know that right?

[lynn1961]

Of course there are always going to be welfare abusers, as Charity Case described. ?But, you can't just assume that someone is poor because they are stupid or lazy. ?In some areas of our country, jobs are very scarce. ?And what is available are minimum wage jobs or jobs for $8.00/hr. You can't possible support a family on $8.00/hr. ?That's something like a little over $1,000.00 a month, take-home pay. ?Rent itself would be close to half that. ?Then there's food to put on the table and clothing. ?In this day & age you have to have at least 1 car, and even if it's paid for and you have minimal insurance on it, there's still gas & repairs. ?There's utilities to pay, and the costs to heat a home are rising. ?Plus, if you don't have a good insurance plan with this job, then you have additional medical bills and prescriptions to pay for out-of-pocket. ?And many employers have the employees paying part of the insurance premium. This may be a single-parent household, with no other adult to depend on for financial support. ?And even if it is a 2-parent household and both work, there's now the cost of child care included. ? People live like this everyday. ?I see the cost of living rising, with no proportion to wages. ? ?

I live in a very small community, where the local factory that employed many people in town for decades at fairly good wages, closed and moved it's operation south of the border (cheaper wages). ?This was a couple yrs ago, and some people are still out of work. ?They have applied for many jobs and even gone back to school for some type of training. ?But jobs are very scarce. ?There's more people looking for jobs than what are available. ?So, you end up taking that $8.00/hr job because at least it's some income. ? ? ?

There are probably people in this country who are even worse off than this, who are homeless & live in shelters. ?Again, you can't assume it's because they are stupid or lazy. ?I have a feeling that most of us here don't even know what true poverty is because we haven't lived it. ?And it's unfair to make judgements about people when we haven't walked in their shoes. ? ? ?

[SLCPUNK]

It is unfair to judge and people also forget that we have an entire nation of people who are poor that do work, more than 40 hours a week. And have nothing.

[SLCPUNK]

Popmetal and Walk provide you with reality and you all go nuts because it destorys the liberal fantasy world you all live in.  Some of you really amaze me.

Just because you don't like the facts doesn't mean you can dismiss them.  Un-fuckin-real

This may be the funniest post of the week. 

Walk (the bigot, racist) and Popmetal (proven wrong with articles he ignores, See: civil war) providing us with reality.....uh..ok! 

[Charity Case]

That is all I ever hear from the right is how we (which is false) give more help than any other country in the world.

Who gives more aid to the poor in this world than the US?? I'd like to see the numbers.? You may be right, but I'd still like to see the numbers.

Look it up yourself. The only thing that will happen if I look it up and post it: is you ignoring it and asking me to post it again.....

You always ask for people to post facts.  You ask over and over again in this forum like a broken record.  But when some here asks you to give facts, you have this answer.  You must be wrong if you don't want to look it up.  I may be wrong myself, but I highly doubt any other country gives more aid to the poor in this world than the US. 

I'm shocked that an American could wear his hatred of the US on his sleeve like you.  If you had any nuts at all, any balls whatsoever, you'd leave and go live in France or one of these other countries that you defend when you won't defend a single thing about the US.  Why is it you don't live by the principals you spout here?  Only two reasons exist.  One, you are a coward or two, you don't believe half the shit you say.  I'm willing to be its a bit of both.

[Charity Case]

Of course there are always going to be welfare abusers, as Charity Case described. ?But, you can't just assume that someone is poor because they are stupid or lazy.

And no one said they assumed all poor people were stupid or lazy.  Read the post.  I said that I was for helping poor prople on a temporary basis to get out of the hole.  If they don't dig themselves out or have kids when they can't afford it or don't even try to find a job then they are either stupid or lazy and should not be support. 

Does the aid you liberals want to give out every end?  Is there ever a point where you say someone is a lost cause?  Do you have a line, either economically or socially, they you won't cross to give aid?  Helping others is great and it is a fundamental part of the US, but there needs to be limits.  I draw the line with the stupid and lazy personally.