Is Bush the worst President in recent time?

[Jamie]

BerkeleyRiot, I agree with every one of your points. I still think it's too early to tell whether he's the worst president in recent history. Mainly because Bush, like you said, has been terrible at defending his policy. This really rides on whether Iraq is a long-term success or not. Right now it seems like the sky is falling in Iraq, but to some extent that perception is the creation of a rabidly anti-Bush media. A lot of those people would rather see Iraq fail so that Bush will be embarrassed. So it's difficult, if not impossible, to tell at this point in time. However, if Iraq does develop into a stable democracy, he will be looked at by history as one of the most successful presidents.

To be honest, Iraq is not looking to be a long term success, they are on the verge of Civil war, the reported minimum body count for Iraqi civilians is 26323, the maximum being 29653. The US troop body count is reported to be 1950 in total since the war began with an official figure of 14755 injured. And as time goes by, these figures can only increase. And taking Bush's other failings, and people who protest his actions into account, he has too much against him to be remembered as a good president, by anybody except his most extreme followers.

(Edit) Just correcting some spelling mistakes.

[SLCPUNK]

As you can see, they are coming turning by the ones to defend this IDIOT in the White House.

that was hardly a 'defense'

Right..that is my point.

[Surfrider]

Forbes had a good idea too with the 15% flat tax for all Americans.? As you can imagine, the wealthy didn't like that too much.

As for Bush, yes, he has to be the worst since Taft.? He makes Carter look good and that's not an easy feat.? His record on virtually every notable topic has been a disaster.? I knew in 2000 things would get bad but I had no idea it would get this bad.? Look how divided we are as a country and if bush has his way i.e. Roe v Wade overturned, think about how much more this country will divide.? The economy is shit.? Another big storm or earthquake and this country is seriously fucked.? Thank God for the term limit!!

there is another choice available...assassination...alternatively...enjoy the next 3 years?

Better watch out, somebody will report this post to the secret service......and I'm not kidding.

And believe it or not that is a federal offense.

[Surfrider]

A lot of those people would rather see Iraq fail so that Bush will be embarrassed.

This is sadly true.

[SLCPUNK]

A lot of those people would rather see Iraq fail so that Bush will be embarrassed.

This is sadly true.

This is bullshit.

Total bullshit.

[SLCPUNK]

Forbes had a good idea too with the 15% flat tax for all Americans.  As you can imagine, the wealthy didn't like that too much.

As for Bush, yes, he has to be the worst since Taft.  He makes Carter look good and that's not an easy feat.  His record on virtually every notable topic has been a disaster.  I knew in 2000 things would get bad but I had no idea it would get this bad.  Look how divided we are as a country and if bush has his way i.e. Roe v Wade overturned, think about how much more this country will divide.  The economy is shit.  Another big storm or earthquake and this country is seriously fucked.  Thank God for the term limit!!

there is another choice available...assassination...alternatively...enjoy the next 3 years 

Better watch out, somebody will report this post to the secret service......and I'm not kidding.

And believe it or not that is a federal offense.

I know.

[POPmetal]

A lot of those people would rather see Iraq fail so that Bush will be embarrassed.

This is sadly true.

This is bullshit.

Total bullshit.

Getting a bit defensive there huh?
I wonder why...

[SLCPUNK]

You wish.

[Surfrider]

A lot of those people would rather see Iraq fail so that Bush will be embarrassed.

This is sadly true.

This is bullshit.

Total bullshit.

Oh, come on. ?You are telling me that noneone out there was hoping that Bush would fail in Iraq from the start. ?There are plenty of people that simply hated Bush ever since he won Florida. ?I think there is a faction out there, on the left and the right, that would rather see people embarrassed and their views vindicated, then to see that the person they hated made a right decision.

Again, I believe the decision to go to war in Iraq was a mistake. ?But there are some that refuse to acknowledge anything positive ever, and that place the blame on Bush for everything.

[Walk]

SLC, so you call the president an "idiot". Do you realize idiot refers to people with an IQ of 0-20, aka profound mental retardation? GW got into Yale and passed with a decent average; he's not an idiot. He's smarter than most people, even if he's not a genius. He's probably smarter than both of us. It's fine to criticize his actions, but poking at his intelligence is low and uncalled for.

So there's piss in my gene pool? Oh, that's brilliant, respectable debate right there... 

[Sterlingdog]

SLC, so you call the president an "idiot". Do you realize idiot refers to people with an IQ of 0-20, aka profound mental retardation? GW got into Yale and passed with a decent average; he's not an idiot. He's smarter than most people, even if he's not a genius. He's probably smarter than both of us. It's fine to criticize his actions, but poking at his intelligence is low and uncalled for.

I bet my IQ is higher than his.  Can I poke fun at his intelligence?

All kidding aside, I haven't seen anyone answer BerkeleyRiot's points.  I think its because he's right, and no one can argue with him.  But I'm waiting for someone to try.  It should be entertaining.

Personally I go back and forth about whether Bush is ignorant or arrogant.  Sometimes I think he just doesn't care that much.  He grew up in a world where you didn't have to succeed, someone always bailed you out.  You have things given to you, like jobs, and when you are in a position to give them, you take care of your friends.  Sometimes it seems like he's got a conservative, religious agenda, but then it looks like he bailed on it to give a friend a job (Supreme Court nomination.)  So I can't figure him out, but I don't think he concerns himself with what's best for this country. 

[SLCPUNK]

A lot of those people would rather see Iraq fail so that Bush will be embarrassed.

This is sadly true.

This is bullshit.

Total bullshit.

Oh, come on.  You are telling me that noneone out there was hoping that Bush would fail in Iraq from the start.  There are plenty of people that simply hated Bush ever since he won Florida.  I think there is a faction out there, on the left and the right, that would rather see people embarrassed and their views vindicated, then to see that the person they hated made a right decision.

Again, I believe the decision to go to war in Iraq was a mistake.  But there are some that refuse to acknowledge anything positive ever, and that place the blame on Bush for everything.

I think that people who are against this war, or against human death, suffering, and loss of life no matter what skin color yes. I have yet to hear anybody say or read they wish that the war failed, just because it was Bush.

People may hate Bush, but people marching in the street with peace signs, aren't hoping for anything other than rational leaders who don't send our children off to kill and be killed in half way around the world.

That is why I say "bullshit".

[SLCPUNK]

So there's piss in my gene pool?

Yup.

Anybody who trolls the internet to type things they really don't believe in order to get a rise out of people....probably has some issues somewhere.

[SLCPUNK]

WASHINGTON - Evangelicals, Republican women, Southerners and other critical groups in
President Bush's political coalition are worried about the direction the nation is headed and disappointed with his performance, an AP-Ipsos poll found.

That unease could be a troubling sign for a White House already struggling to keep the Republican Party base from slipping over Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers, Gulf Coast spending projects, immigration and other issues.

"Politically, this is very serious for the president," said James Thurber, a political scientist at American University. "If the base of his party has lost faith, that could spell trouble for his policy agenda and for the party generally."

Sentiment about the nation's direction has sunk to new depths at a time people are anxious about
Iraq, the economy, gas prices and the management of billions of dollars being spent for recovery from the nation's worst natural disaster.

Only 28 percent say the country is headed in the right direction while two-thirds, 66 percent, say it is on the wrong track, the poll found.

"There is a growing, deep-seated discontentment and pessimism about the direction of the country," said Republican strategist Tony Fabrizio, who believes the reasons for their pessimism differ for those in one political party or another.

Among those most likely to have lost confidence about the nation's direction over the past year are white evangelicals, down 30 percentage points since November, Republican women, down 28 points, Southerners, down 26 points, and suburban men, down 20 points.

Bush's supporters are uneasy about issues such as federal deficits, immigration and his latest nomination for the Supreme Court. Social conservatives are concerned about his choice of Miers, a relatively unknown lawyer who has most recently served as White House counsel.

"Bush is trying to get more support generally from the American public by seeming more moderate and showing he's a strong leader at the same time he has a rebellion within his own party," Thurber said. "The far right is starting to be very open about their claim that he's not a real conservative."

The president's job approval is mired at the lowest level of his presidency ? 39 percent. While four of five Republicans say they approve of Bush's job performance ? enthusiasm in that support has dipped over the last year.

In December 2004, soon after his re-election, almost two-thirds of Republicans strongly approved of the job done by Bush. The AP-Ipsos survey found that just half in his own party feel that way now.

The intensity of support for Bush's job performance has also dropped sharply among white evangelicals, Southerners, people from rural areas and suburban men.

"We've lost focus on where we're supposed to be going and not able to respond to the crises that affect the people of this country," said David Ernest, a Republican from San Ramon, Calif., who is angry about the government's response to Hurricane Katrina. "We're mired in a Middle Eastern adventure and we've taken the focus off of our own country."

Bush has tried to reassure conservatives about his Supreme Court nominee. He's also trying to counter critics of the war by tying U.S. efforts in Iraq to the larger war against terrorism. And he's made frequent trips to the areas devastated by hurricanes Katrina and Rita to offset criticism of the government's initial response to Katrina.

Of all the problems facing the country, the war in Iraq is the one that troubles some Bush supporters the most.

"I approve of what the president is doing, but it's a mixed decision," said Richard Saulinski, a Republican from Orland Park, Ill. "We should get out of Iraq. It seems like there's no light at the end of the tunnel. I just think we're dealing with a culture we don't really understand."

The poll of 1,000 adults was conducted by Ipsos, an international polling company, from Monday to Wednesday and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

[Axl_owns_dexter]

I speak only for myself.  As does everyone.  I am against the war because it is an unwinnable war.  The only way you win a war like this is if you totally defeat and conquer the enemy.  To do this you have to use harsh tactics.  That is why I am repulsed by the comparisons of Iraq and the defeat of Germany and Japan.  Germany and Japan were totally defeated countries that were rebuilt from rubble.  We are fighting Iraq in a quasi-politically correct way.  If you want to do that, fine, but realize you surely will not win.

In general, my point is that if you don't understand that war is hell, and that the point is to totally dominate the enemy, then you are best not to get involved in war at all.

However, in my opinion there are factions out there that want to see the other side of a political spectrum fail simply because they are the other side.  There have always been people like this.  I am not saying that everyone who marches simply wants to see Bush fail.  But if you do not realize there are people who do, then you are experiencing an illusion.

[SLCPUNK]

  There have always been people like this.  I am not saying that everyone who marches simply wants to see Bush fail.  But if you do not realize there are people who do, then you are experiencing an illusion.

I think you are missing the point. It's kind of like the "Support the troops" bullshit. It's really taking something and muddying it up. "If you don't support the war...then you must not support the troops". It's a bullshit statement meant to blur the lines of what is really being discussed.

I am not claiming that there aren't people who want him to fail. But to lump the anti-war people in with the "hope Bush's war in Iraq fails" is just like "support the troops" as far as muddying it up is concerned. ie, bullshit.

[POPmetal]

So there's piss in my gene pool?

Yup.

Anybody who trolls the internet to type things they really don't believe in order to get a rise out of people....probably has some issues somewhere.

This is really uncalled for. If a conservative was saying things like that, they'd surely be banned. But you know what, keep it up, it only shows everyone with a brain how weak your arguments are when you have to resort to such pettiness.

[Will]

IMHO, Bush is the worst president in the modern era....for all the reasons cited above and many, many more.

If a CEO had the kind of record Bush has put together, he'd have been fired by the Board or the company would be in bankruptcy.

Carter is a great man, but was a lousy president.

Can't really say much more than that. I do think Bush is the worst President in recent time, and gave the country a really bad worldwide reputation. I know some people don't care about this, but apparently about 19 fellows did care in september 2001.

Don't be nervous, unless you live in Europe. The oil peak is going to hit them a lot harder than it's going to hit us. There's always nuclear power, of course, but environmentalists might just get in the way of that. Hopefully not.

Funny man. FYI, a large percentage of the European population is using public transportation. Of course, a lot of people still use cars, but public transportation is huge here. Just ask the millions of people who use the parisian subway every single day. And I for one do not give a shit about high gas prices for cars because I don't own one and only use the subway and trains, which run on electricity in France...
Different story for airplanes though, cuz airfares are getting more expensive...but it's not like I take the plane everyday so...

[Will]

This is really uncalled for.

Is that the joke of the day? I'm guessing you haven't read Walk's posts. And I am not talking only about this thread. This guy is one of the most insulting people on the board. He likes to provoke just for the sake of it. Maybe you like some of his ideas, well good for you, but maybe you haven't read all of his looney theories.

[Guns N RockMusic]

IMHO, Bush is the worst president in the modern era....for all the reasons cited above and many, many more.

If a CEO had the kind of record Bush has put together, he'd have been fired by the Board or the company would be in bankruptcy.

Carter is a great man, but was a lousy president.

Can't really say much more than that. I do think Bush is the worst President in recent time, and gave the country a really bad worldwide reputation. I know some people don't care about this, but apparently about 19 fellows did care in september 2001.

That is a full fledged distortion of reality.? Bush was in office for 9 months when that happened.? The planning for 9/11 took place when Slick willy was in office.? If you're gonna blame a President for a poor opinion of America to the world, blame the one that was around when the plan started.? Just more proof that some of you walk out of Moore's movies and don't bother to research it at all
?

Someone already in this forum attacked Bush from a joke he made at a dinner party that was shown in Moore's latest toilet.? If they knew their ass from a hole in the ground they'd realize Gore was at the same dinner.


Bush is a fuck up, plain and simple - but far from the worse President in modern times.? Will Bush be looked at as a poor president?? you bet your ass because all the liberal douches secure jobs in academia when they fail in the real world and they dictate what goes in the history books and what is taught.? I just hope that some of your children call you on this bullshit 20 years from now and ask where did you come up with that or what part of this policy didn't you understand.? ?The look will be priceless? ?


P.S.? I wrote my senior thesis for my last Political Theory class on C02 and the atmosphere.( I got an A and my teacher was an admitted liberal)? Interesting reading if anyone is up for around 20 pages of libertarian/realist outlook.