When CD comes out and they finally tour will gnr play all of chinese democracy?

[mikegiuliana]

I dont like the road this is going down, lets try and get back on track where will they play mostly CD tracks

lets just say it needs to come out firsr dave.. A tour has to happen first and some singles released to the radio and videos to mtv.. Axl is going to introduce you to music he plans on releasing so of course more new material will be played then the past tour.. Only makes sence.. Unless he drops a few from the past tour and adds new ones then it would be the same.

And it's not  a bad road it's going down.. You have gnr fans from different times on this board with different opinion so just hear what is said and understand..  I was only doing a contrast between older fans and younger ones and regular rock fans compared to hard core gnr fans on message boards...

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I dont like the road this is going down, lets try and get back on track where will they play mostly CD tracks

lets just say it needs to come out firsr dave.. A tour has to happen first and some singles released to the radio and videos to mtv.. Axl is going to introduce you to music he plans on releasing so of course more new material will be played then the past tour.. Only makes sence.. Unless he drops a few from the past tour and adds new ones then it would be the same.

And it's not? a bad road it's going down.. You have gnr fans from different times on this board with different opinion so just hear what is said and understand..? I was only doing a contrast between older fans and younger ones and regular rock fans compared to hard core gnr fans on message boards...

I just meant the road about Axl should not call this band gnr, i didint want to go that route.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

I don't think the old fans will be immune to appreciating or getting into the new songs.? (Though I suspect there will be those who will deny it? )

Though, yes, older fans are going to want more of the old songs.? I don't think it has so much as being set in thier ways though... I think it has to do with older fans having known and loved more of the songs.?

The more old songs the perform, however, the greater the risk of them being considered a "tribute band" (albeit with the founding frontman with the definitive identifying voice).? Axl may very well be willing to risk what some will say/think in order to please fans....? ?Or he may very well be willing to risk not re-attracting a portion of the older fans.? It's a toss up from where I see it.? Whatever is best for the band, I presume, is what will decide it.? And though personally I want to hear more of the new material at the shows, whatever is going to be best for the band is what matters.

if it's good I will say so but to me personally I won't consider it new guns n roses material.. Just axl rose material...
it's pretty simple eva.. When I was in HS I use to buy tons of newer records and really care about the movements going on.. Maybe it was because I reallyu liked 80's metal and grunge... Could have been it was just better music then the past 5 years or so.. Now over ten years out of HS I buy very few records and tend to enjoy the big selection of music I have collected since my youth.. Pretty sure that is fairly normal as you get older especially if you grew up during an era where the music was great..

Oh yeah, if you developed your musical taste during the 80s and 90s you've definitely encountered a great time for rock n' roll.? ?
Yet, just as I never found the music of the 60s and 70s off limits of my discovery, neither have I insulated myself from what newer rock genre's have offered.
I think there will always be a revisiting of older/classic music, and simultaneously a progression/ forward motion that re-defines and expands the rock genre.?
While we may have a certain attachment or special place in our hearts for a certain era...? ?I don't believe that it would or should define what is genuine, nor limit what we can enjoy and 'get into'.? But, ah, perhaps I see it that way because I am over 20 years out of highschool!? ? ?Who knows what will music will motivate or inspire you in the next 10 years of your life that will come to be as deserving of a special place in your heart as the GN'R era of 87 - 93!?

That tribute band comment I don't agree with.. If you are going to keep the name guns n roses then you should act like gnr.. If gnr stayed together and the badn never broke up they could play a song from 87 or 2005 and no one would even think that.. As long as it's billed as gnr and axl fronts the band I kind of expect to hear the classics..

Of course, if it was Axl, Slash, and Duff they could play nothing but classics no one would call them a tribute band!? (though, if that was all they performed and never created or performed anything new they would actually be playing tribute or memorializing the past - alebit their own).?

I agree that the new band can play a song from 87 and no one would think of them as a tribute band.? What's to consider however is how much old material they could play before some would characterize them as such.? It is this factor of extent that I addressed when? I said "The more old songs the perform, however, the greater the risk of them being considered a "tribute band".

What happens (if it happens) is all speculation but I was sepaking for the older fans not the new ones.. it may just be me.. if Zepplin got back together I would just excpect to hear mostly the stuff I grew up hearing, the music that gets play time on the radion for the past decades.. The fan base that is the strongest will always be the people who were there the first time when the band was big and that's a big reason to keep the big popular songs in there... Sure you should drop one or two to make room for some newer ones.. you can't go by what people want on a gnr fan forum because they aren't typical fans..

Yeah, either Axl will attempt to take everything (and everyone) into consideration, or he will come to a realization that there is no feasible way to address "everything" or to please "everyone" so he'll just end up going with what feels right to him and the band.... if adjustments are needed over time, they'll see it and make them, but they have to start somewhere.

I guess that is what we're spculating about.? How much old material vs. new will they begin with.? Speculation not withstanding, I'm not worried about it.? As a GN'R fan, I'm pretty much bound to trust in Axl and the band otherwise I'd be a wreck!??

[jazjme]

I don't think the old fans will be immune to appreciating or getting into the new songs.  (Though I suspect there will be those who will deny it  )

Though, yes, older fans are going to want more of the old songs.  I don't think it has so much as being set in thier ways though... I think it has to do with older fans having known and loved more of the songs. 

The more old songs the perform, however, the greater the risk of them being considered a "tribute band" (albeit with the founding frontman with the definitive identifying voice).  Axl may very well be willing to risk what some will say/think in order to please fans....   Or he may very well be willing to risk not re-attracting a portion of the older fans.  It's a toss up from where I see it.  Whatever is best for the band, I presume, is what will decide it.  And though personally I want to hear more of the new material at the shows, whatever is going to be best for the band is what matters.

if it's good I will say so but to me personally I won't consider it new guns n roses material.. Just axl rose material...
it's pretty simple eva.. When I was in HS I use to buy tons of newer records and really care about the movements going on.. Maybe it was because I reallyu liked 80's metal and grunge... Could have been it was just better music then the past 5 years or so.. Now over ten years out of HS I buy very few records and tend to enjoy the big selection of music I have collected since my youth.. Pretty sure that is fairly normal as you get older especially if you grew up during an era where the music was great..

Oh yeah, if you developed your musical taste during the 80s and 90s you've definitely encountered a great time for rock n' roll.   
Yet, just as I never found the music of the 60s and 70s off limits of my discovery, neither have I insulated myself from what newer rock genre's have offered.
I think there will always be a revisiting of older/classic music, and simultaneously a progression/ forward motion that re-defines and expands the rock genre. 
While we may have a certain attachment or special place in our hearts for a certain era...   I don't believe that it would or should define what is genuine, nor limit what we can enjoy and 'get into'.  But, ah, perhaps I see it that way because I am over 20 years out of highschool!     Who knows what will music will motivate or inspire you in the next 10 years of your life that will come to be as deserving of a special place in your heart as the GN'R era of 87 - 93!

[I agree with alot of what your saying eva, myself being out of HS for 17 yrs, I still find music out thier that I get into, and stuff I like, and Im all for goin to shows of nw bands and buyin thier music.

I dont think everyone is "set in thier ways" as you indicate Mike as they get older, I know many people that I associate with , that are progressive as I am, as far as music is concerned. they, I did stop caring about new music because I turned 30, perhaps there are like yourself that have . But GNR to me when they tour again, is goin to be very refreshing, and not unlike Aerosmith(and I saw thier horrible DONE WITH MIRRORS tour),GNR I believe will take the old fans that want to come along, and build a completely larger new audience, that down the line will be goin to see the shows, BECAUSE of the new material. Thats the way I see it.

[sandman]

if they played less than 7 AFD songs, i would be disappointed big time. and i think many others would as well.

they should play about 7 new ones, 8 AFD and about 5 UYI.

axl kept the gnr name for a reason. i don't think he cares who wrote what and who he's currently playing with.

[mikegiuliana]

I don't think the old fans will be immune to appreciating or getting into the new songs.? (Though I suspect there will be those who will deny it? )

Though, yes, older fans are going to want more of the old songs.? I don't think it has so much as being set in thier ways though... I think it has to do with older fans having known and loved more of the songs.?

The more old songs the perform, however, the greater the risk of them being considered a "tribute band" (albeit with the founding frontman with the definitive identifying voice).? Axl may very well be willing to risk what some will say/think in order to please fans....? ?Or he may very well be willing to risk not re-attracting a portion of the older fans.? It's a toss up from where I see it.? Whatever is best for the band, I presume, is what will decide it.? And though personally I want to hear more of the new material at the shows, whatever is going to be best for the band is what matters.

if it's good I will say so but to me personally I won't consider it new guns n roses material.. Just axl rose material...
it's pretty simple eva.. When I was in HS I use to buy tons of newer records and really care about the movements going on.. Maybe it was because I reallyu liked 80's metal and grunge... Could have been it was just better music then the past 5 years or so.. Now over ten years out of HS I buy very few records and tend to enjoy the big selection of music I have collected since my youth.. Pretty sure that is fairly normal as you get older especially if you grew up during an era where the music was great..

Oh yeah, if you developed your musical taste during the 80s and 90s you've definitely encountered a great time for rock n' roll.? ?
Yet, just as I never found the music of the 60s and 70s off limits of my discovery, neither have I insulated myself from what newer rock genre's have offered.

I know all older people are not going to limit their musical experiences.. I was only talking about older gnr fans and what they might expect at a gnr show today..? many bands out there have trouble getting their new material across but their old material is what keeps the generation heading to the concerts.. I was talking about your older average rock fan who kind of isn't in the hunt anymore and has his music but can enjoy a new song if it's quality.. I really enjoyed vr and their shows this year, and I liked their album.. So anything is possible..? As I said before and firmly believe someone like gnr who was kings of the world in their day will probably have an older audience who really love the old songs and missed hearing them for so many years.. So they have high hopes possibly.. Nothing made me happier when I went to msg then being able to sing along? with all the songs and hearing those great songs live again.. I did enjoy maddy a tthe show but it didn't give me the same feeling the opening chord of jungle, scom, or PC did.. Maybe it's because it was during my youth adn forming years where I can relate and look back at times in my life.. Kind of like anthems of your life.. Now I'm just a married dad who still loves a good time just not as use to getting into newer music..

I'm sure the youth will embrace the music and buy lots of albums... But for me I think the older fans (not all of them) will be at the concerts not knowing the newer stuff just wanting to hear some old time great tracks in concert.. I see how nostalgic people older are and people I associate with.. They get tickets from time to time from say their wives company to see motley crue or the stones and they haven't really thought about these bands or their music in years.. They just chat about the classics and say how excited they are to hear them again..

As for the set in theri ways, and can't teach anb old dong new tricks.. It's a saying that was definetly formed from truth.. I work with people all the time that only do things one way and only say how good it was and how everything today sucks.. Wrong attitude imo but nopt far from the truth..









[I agree with alot of what your saying eva, myself being out of HS for 17 yrs, I still find music out thier that I get into, and stuff I like, and Im all for goin to shows of nw bands and buyin thier music.

I dont think everyone is "set in thier ways" as you indicate Mike as they get older, I know many people that I associate with , that are progressive as I am, as far as music is concerned. they, I did stop caring about new music because I turned 30, perhaps there are like yourself that have . But GNR to me when they tour again, is goin to be very refreshing, and not unlike Aerosmith(and I saw thier horrible DONE WITH MIRRORS tour),GNR I believe will take the old fans that want to come along, and build a completely larger new audience, that down the line will be goin to see the shows, BECAUSE of the new material. Thats the way I see it.

[mikegiuliana]

I fucked up the whole quote... This was my response tou you jaz and eva

I know all older people are not going to limit their musical experiences.. I was only talking about older gnr fans and what they might expect at a gnr show today..  many bands out there have trouble getting their new material across but their old material is what keeps the generation heading to the concerts.. I was talking about your older average rock fan who kind of isn't in the hunt anymore and has his music but can enjoy a new song if it's quality.. I really enjoyed vr and their shows this year, and I liked their album.. So anything is possible..  As I said before and firmly believe someone like gnr who was kings of the world in their day will probably have an older audience who really love the old songs and missed hearing them for so many years.. So they have high hopes possibly.. Nothing made me happier when I went to msg then being able to sing along  with all the songs and hearing those great songs live again.. I did enjoy maddy a tthe show but it didn't give me the same feeling the opening chord of jungle, scom, or PC did.. Maybe it's because it was during my youth adn forming years where I can relate and look back at times in my life.. Kind of like anthems of your life.. Now I'm just a married dad who still loves a good time just not as use to getting into newer music..

I'm sure the youth will embrace the music and buy lots of albums... But for me I think the older fans (not all of them) will be at the concerts not knowing the newer stuff just wanting to hear some old time great tracks in concert.. I see how nostalgic people older are and people I associate with.. They get tickets from time to time from say their wives company to see motley crue or the stones and they haven't really thought about these bands or their music in years.. They just chat about the classics and say how excited they are to hear them again..

As for the set in theri ways, and can't teach anb old dong new tricks.. It's a saying that was definetly formed from truth.. I work with people all the time that only do things one way and only say how good it was and how everything today sucks.. Wrong attitude imo but nopt far from the truth..

[jazjme]

I understand where your coming from dude, and there is alot of merit, and validity to what you say, but that is from only a perspective a slice of life so to speak.

When I pointed out Aerosmith and Done with Mirrors, I was 16 at the time, and I was just getting into "my identity of music" , which thru the yrs has always broaden for me, and that was supposed to be thier comback album. No one ot the show gave a fuck about those tunes, and that album, it was like your senerio with GNR and the older members.

But look what happened, "PREMANANT VACATION" came out, still held teh fans of old, and brought on many new. ANd how many albums have they put out since? Yes it became more about the new stuff, and less about the olsd, but they always cater to the old, and new, cause the new fans buy back catalogues, and they immerse themselves with all the music they can for a band they love.

Im a huge Floyd fan, by 16 I had all thier music up to the Final Cut.
Never thought I would ever see them live(beit without waters), but then the division bell came out, and Floyd fans all over old and New bought it, and went to the shows.Thats what I'm talkin about with GNR!

[HoldenCaulfield]

I'd be highly surprised if they didn't play all but maybe the two or three weakest tracks, but I'd say they'll end up playing the entire album during the tour. IE, U2 has played all of 'How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb' on this tour except for 2 tracks, the two which some consider the album's weakest songs. They'll ALWAYS play 'Jungle', 'SCOM', 'November Rain', and 'Paradise City'...

[mikegiuliana]

I'd be highly surprised if they didn't play all but maybe the two or three weakest tracks, but I'd say they'll end up playing the entire album during the tour. IE, U2 has played all of 'How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb' on this tour except for 2 tracks, the two which some consider the album's weakest songs. They'll ALWAYS play 'Jungle', 'SCOM', 'November Rain', and 'Paradise City'...

they were also playing vertigo twice per show.. That's fucking weak dude..

jaz division bell came out in 1994 if I remember correctly and was number one in the top 200.. Aeromsith to me is amazing.. I liked permanet vacation, but my favorite newer album was get a grip..Some great songs on their which really launched them.. I'm sure in 86 run dmc really helped them with their fame get back.. Hopefully axl can do something like aero putting out new material for nearly 20 years.. Aero is one of the fw groups that really got a second chance and did better the second time around.. I also think albums like Pump n PV really fit into the hair metal era which helped them make a good transition..

[ppbebe]

To add to what jazme n eva said,

It's more likely that young fans will be attending concerts while older fans will be listening to albums sitting back at home except for the die-hards that have followed the whole saga.

Why should the new fans be all young? The Music fans are the people of any age who're eager to get into the music new n great to them unless they hold a grudge against the artist for some reason, to get the records n the tickets they can afford.

As for the old guns fans, in Axl's words

''I'd like to take some of the old Guns fans along with me gradually into the twenty-first century''

Take it or leave it.

[jameslofton29]

Mike, you make some valid points. The original fans of the band are much different than the newer generation of fans. We experienced GNR in real time, seen things as they unfolded. And us "old" fans identify GNR with AFD, Lies, and UYI. The "new" fans have to read articles, listen to bandmembers distorted points of view, and think this newer GNR is somehow similar to past GNR. When a "new" fan hears old GNR, they dont have memories come back to them the way it is when we listen to the old stuff. you're absolutely right, most old fans do not follow new GNR. The age range of old fans is 30-45. Most people that age dont have the time, or the dedication, to keep following Axl. Only the extreme hardcore stay interested. The new fans haven't waited for shit. Lets say the 'new' fans got into them in 99/2000. They've had 5 killer albums to listen to for the first time while they wait for CD. So any material that Axl plays to the new fans is interchangeable. Yes, most old fans who go to the next tour will want to hear strictly the old material, while most new fans wil want a mixture of both. But having said that, I am in the minority on this issue. I am mostly interested in hearing new material. Sure, the old stuff is excellent, and brings back great memories of the past. But I have been listening to those albums since 1987. I have also heard countless bootlegs, and seen GNR live back on the first leg of the UYI tour. That was the prime for that material to be performed. Lets say Axl does a surprise performance hear in Modesto, CA tonight and I go to the show. I am much more interested in hearing CD, The Blues, and the unveiling of Catcher in the Rye, This I Love, and Prostitute than I am in hearing Jungle or Paradise City. But thats just me. I can certainly relate to those who only want to hear old stuff. It symbolizes a special time in their lives. But GNR has basically been stuck in a timewarp, and that contributes to people wanting to relive the past glory. Personally, I'm looking forward to a forward movement of progress.

[WAR41]

my honest fear is that he avoids playing the old material.  I think this would alienate many of the old fans and it would have a negative effect on future show turnouts.  Let's face it, Guns N Roses have released songs that are considered classics.  They have their place in the history of rock and roll.  If they refuse to play those hits, the band is making a big mistake. 

They can concentrate on some of the newer songs, but I would say 5-6 new songs at the most.  I remember when I saw David Bowie in 1995 (NIN was opening, they were who I went to see), I was very dissapointed in his setlist.  It was all his new industrial stuff.  It was awful.  Play the new music, but be sure to throw the classics in there. 

[dave-gnfnr2k]

my honest fear is that he avoids playing the old material.? I think this would alienate many of the old fans and it would have a negative effect on future show turnouts.? Let's face it, Guns N Roses have released songs that are considered classics.? They have their place in the history of rock and roll.? If they refuse to play those hits, the band is making a big mistake.?

They can concentrate on some of the newer songs, but I would say 5-6 new songs at the most.? I remember when I saw David Bowie in 1995 (NIN was opening, they were who I went to see), I was very dissapointed in his setlist.? It was all his new industrial stuff.? It was awful.? Play the new music, but be sure to throw the classics in there.?

A lot of bands do this. Pearl Jam does it,and so does U2. You have to understand the new guys are not going to stand to play just 5 songs off of CD. They are going to want to play 75% of the stuff they made. Look at when UYIs came out. Gnr dropped a lot of the AFD songs off the set list.

Did Axl make some comment by the time the 3rd album comes out he hopes to be playing just new songs and no old stuff?

[WAR41]

my honest fear is that he avoids playing the old material.  I think this would alienate many of the old fans and it would have a negative effect on future show turnouts.  Let's face it, Guns N Roses have released songs that are considered classics.  They have their place in the history of rock and roll.  If they refuse to play those hits, the band is making a big mistake. 

They can concentrate on some of the newer songs, but I would say 5-6 new songs at the most.  I remember when I saw David Bowie in 1995 (NIN was opening, they were who I went to see), I was very dissapointed in his setlist.  It was all his new industrial stuff.  It was awful.  Play the new music, but be sure to throw the classics in there. 

A lot of bands do this. Pearl Jam does it,and so does U2. You have to understand the new guys are not going to stand to play just 5 songs off of CD. They are going to want to play 75% of the stuff they made. Look at when UYIs came out. Gnr dropped a lot of the AFD songs off the set list.

Did Axl make some comment by the time the 3rd album comes out he hopes to be playing just new songs and no old stuff?

I understand that Pearl Jam and U2 do this... but these are bands that are constantly touring.  GNR's attempted comeback failed, and before that a lot of people hadn't heard the band play since 1993.  It is one thing to gradually stop playing the old stuff like Pearl Jam has done (I can't speak for U2, I am not a big fan), but it is another thing to just cut out everything suddenly. 

Believe me, its not an easy answer at all.  Because I have missed out on GNR 4 times in my life (once in 91, once in 92, twice in 02) I want to hear the old stuff.  If I went to a show now and I did not hear some familiar stuff I would be disappointed. 

[WAR41]

let me correct that last sentence, I would like to hear mostly familiar stuff, not just some familiar stuff...

[dave-gnfnr2k]

my honest fear is that he avoids playing the old material.? I think this would alienate many of the old fans and it would have a negative effect on future show turnouts.? Let's face it, Guns N Roses have released songs that are considered classics.? They have their place in the history of rock and roll.? If they refuse to play those hits, the band is making a big mistake.?

They can concentrate on some of the newer songs, but I would say 5-6 new songs at the most.? I remember when I saw David Bowie in 1995 (NIN was opening, they were who I went to see), I was very dissapointed in his setlist.? It was all his new industrial stuff.? It was awful.? Play the new music, but be sure to throw the classics in there.?

A lot of bands do this. Pearl Jam does it,and so does U2. You have to understand the new guys are not going to stand to play just 5 songs off of CD. They are going to want to play 75% of the stuff they made. Look at when UYIs came out. Gnr dropped a lot of the AFD songs off the set list.

Did Axl make some comment by the time the 3rd album comes out he hopes to be playing just new songs and no old stuff?

I understand that Pearl Jam and U2 do this... but these are bands that are constantly touring.? GNR's attempted comeback failed, and before that a lot of people hadn't heard the band play since 1993.? It is one thing to gradually stop playing the old stuff like Pearl Jam has done (I can't speak for U2, I am not a big fan), but it is another thing to just cut out everything suddenly.?

Believe me, its not an easy answer at all.? Because I have missed out on GNR 4 times in my life (once in 91, once in 92, twice in 02) I want to hear the old stuff.? If I went to a show now and I did not hear some familiar stuff I would be disappointed.?

I don't think they would cut out ALL the old songs right away but I think they will play just the classics and not add anymore UYI songs. Like I said I think WTTJ, SCOM, PC, Mr B, patience, KOHD and Nov Rain will be a given then the rest of of the set would be all of or most of CD. As a gnr fan do you think most would be happy if they played those songs and no other old gnr songs? That is 7 songs and you have to think they will play about a 20-25 song set.

To be honest if I only heard 5 new gnr songs on the next tour I would be really pissed off. I want to hear at least half the set be the new songs. I dont need to hear songs like out to get me , my michelle, think about you, etc etc.

Axl can alwawys rotate the classics like one night take out Mr B and put it its so easy or what not.

[WAR41]

its hard to say.  I just went back and counted the amount of songs at 4 random shows in 93 and they ranged from 16-19 songs.  And in 2002 I counted 18 songs for 2 random shows I counted.  None of those are including the drum/guitar solos and different intros.  So I think that 20-25 songs per show is not realistic. 

Lets think about how many classics we have... off the top of my head, WTTJ, SCOM, PC, Don't Cry, November Rain, KOHD, YCBM, Patience, and LALD.  That is not including the 'lesser known' classics Estranged and Mr. Brownstone.  That right there is 9 songs.  So lets say that Axl continues with the 18 song set (a strong possibility)...  I think he almost has to play those 9 songs initially to satisfy his older fans.  Then for good measure I think he should throw in Estranged, Mr. Brownstone, Its So Easy, and another UYI song. 

So if he only does 3 of those since Estranged does not seem like a possibility, then that is 12 songs already.  I think that leaves us 6 new songs to be played.  I don't think that it all that bad. 

[jazjme]

Why do people always leave out NIght train! jeez..shit that is one of the most loved(at least for me tunes)..Personally I think that Nighttrain will be included in any set they do.

[Walapino]

Guys, Axl already talked about this in Rio back in 2001. He said he would never deny his fans of hearing the old stuff because he knows everyone loves them. So dont expect him to drop the classics, I think 6 or 7 songs will be new and the rest classics. Atleast the first tour.