Robin's Guitar Playing

[makane]

Dropped ? tuning maybe?
As form my 2 cents as a guitar player, im not so familiar with that "dissonant playing" bullshit, but what comes to that clip, well, I just think he played of key and he also played like someone after 10 guitar classes. hopefully he can do better.

[ppbebe]

makane, listen to any of his other solos.
Or handy, there's a sossego link in this thread. and tell me if it's offkey or not.
IMO, it kickass.

Or maybe his guitar is accidentally tuned wrongly.

Yeah, more excuses for his playing: Dissonance, Out of tune Guitars, what next?
By the by before a concert, band members usually check to see if they are in tune. 

excuses? No I mean it for 'someone who plays all his notes out of key' in your post.
Do they use just one guitar throughout a show? It depends on a player/ songs/his singer innit?

[Neemo]

WOW

you either love Robin or hate him huh? but either way it's worth fighting for.

I myself play guitar as well but like makane i've never heard of this dissonant playing shit. the way i was taught to play guitar was "in tune"

Genisis there are usually guitar techs who tune all guitars both before and during shows. in fact each guitarist prolly has their own tech and they all have different guitars with different tunings as required. ?I don't know what the tunings are like on the newer songs but the majority of GnR tunes from 1993 and prior were all tuned down a half step.

Personally to me, when i saw GnR in 2002, it almost sounded like Robin was fighting with his guitar to get his solo's completed for the old songs. ?That is not a technique in my book. But it's only my opinion, only robin and the rest of GnR know for sure how quality he is. but i'll tell you something Axl did get pissed off a few times on that tour after a song robin was playing (The Blues in RIR and Patience in Detroit come to mind) and it wasn't for something intentional, you can bet your ass on that

On top of all this discussion, we come back to Buckethead, now if Robin was so fantastic why bring in a technically superior player like him? To compliment robin's "sloppy" style? (there's that term again ppbebe )I just can't believe that. To me Bucket was brought in to fill a weak spot. (The lack of a quality lead guitarist)

ppbebe, yes sossego was great as were the rest of the "new" songs they played live (rir blues excepted) but they hardly come close to matching the skill of slash's solos of GnR songs from '93 and prior. or is it just me?

[Genesis]

Why does it matter that I shared an entry from a christian guitar site?

It doesn't matter at all. I just happened to mention it, that's all.

. one which he may have developed through employing alternative methods such as dissonant theory.

I give up on this dissonant theory crap!  U don't have the first damn clue yet, in spite of all these posts. what it's all about (Bcoz u need to know music theory!) . We'll play it ur way. Here are some quotes from the site u mentioned:

It's not taboo in music theory to play notes that do not naturally occur in whatever key you're in providing that you have a good reason to play them. Most often, you'll find them in the context of some kind of secondary dominant relationship

The note is out of key. The note is not wrong . Usually, if you're playing a note that's out of key, there's some phrasing behind it or in front of it to 'justify' it's use. By itself, it'll probably sound weird, but in context it'll make sense.


f it?s out of key it?s out of key. The finesse is how far you go out of key and if it is appropriate for the style of music.

On top of all this discussion, we come back to Buckethead, now if Robin was so fantastic why bring in a technically superior player like him? To compliment robin's "sloppy" style? (there's that term again ppbebe )I just can't believe that. To me Bucket was brought in to fill a weak spot. (The lack of a quality lead guitarist)

Good point. GN'R is no Iron Maiden.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Why does it matter that I shared an entry from a christian guitar site?

It doesn't matter at all. I just happened to mention it, that's all.

. one which he may have developed through employing alternative methods such as dissonant theory.

I give up on this dissonant theory crap!? U don't have the first damn clue yet, in spite of all these posts. what it's all about (Bcoz u need to know music theory!) . We'll play it ur way. Here are some quotes from the site u mentioned:

It's not taboo in music theory to play notes that do not naturally occur in whatever key you're in providing that you have a good reason to play them. Most often, you'll find them in the context of some kind of secondary dominant relationship

The note is out of key. The note is not wrong . Usually, if you're playing a note that's out of key, there's some phrasing behind it or in front of it to 'justify' it's use. By itself, it'll probably sound weird, but in context it'll make sense.


f it?s out of key it?s out of key. The finesse is how far you go out of key and if it is appropriate for the style of music.

I read and understrand all of that.  So you're saying that IN YOUR OPINION what robin did, regardless of his intent or not, was inappropriate?

[Neemo]

I read and understrand all of that.? So you're saying that IN YOUR OPINION what robin did, regardless of his intent or not, was inappropriate?

forgive me for replying to a question not directed at me, but, in my book, on the old songs this technique is inappropriate, cuz it's not how they were written.?

[Genesis]

I read and understrand all of that.  So you're saying that IN YOUR OPINION what robin did, regardless of his intent or not, was inappropriate?

That's what it all boils down to, doesn't it? What one thinks is appropriate and inappropriate? If u think that playing the guitar like a banshee wailing is appropriate for a band like GN'R, then we have nothing to argue about.

[ppbebe]

Maybe there's nothing to argue about...

Neemo
as I see it from the new tunes they are both needed to express many aspects of delicate human emotions. BH is not Robin and Robin is not BH.
Each is a musician with a difference.
The difference between them makes all the difference.
To my eyes They are(were ) the perfect pair ever.
Check out the Ghosts of Mars. 

[Genesis]

as I see it from the new tunes they are both needed to express many aspects of delicate human emotions.

We're still talking about GN'R  right? 

Each is a musician with a difference.
The difference between them makes all the difference.

So possibly, by the time the cd is out, maybe 50 different guitarists would have played on the record, each contributing about 30 seconds depending upon their style and the mood of the music?
 No. Buckethead was brought into GN'R bcoz of what Neemo said - THE NEED FOR A DEPENDABLE, TECHNICALLY SOUND LEAD GUITARIST.

[nesquick]

I like the song, but I don't like the live versions a lot. I think the studio version will sound a lot better.

I think so too, especially after listening to the Boston promo. The begining riff sounds GREAT. i just hope the studio version will have a "conventional" guitar solo, and not a weirdo shredding/ultra futurist one. I hope we will have something more melodious. However, concerning the Live version,  I never listen to it when I watch/hear my new GN'R bootlegs. Sometimes I even don't download it.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

I read and understrand all of that.? So you're saying that IN YOUR OPINION what robin did, regardless of his intent or not, was inappropriate?

That's what it all boils down to, doesn't it? What one thinks is appropriate and inappropriate? If u think that playing the guitar like a banshee wailing is appropriate for a band like GN'R, then we have nothing to argue about.

Your 'banshee wailing' description not withstading...  it was never my intent to argue with you about what I may find appropriate vs. what you or anyone else might. As to what Robin does or doesn't do being appropriate for GN'R.... that all depends on what one feels GN'R is or 'should be'.  If I've a less stringent view of that than you, that might explain why I'm more accepting of Robin that you. 

What I took exception to was your assertion that Robin doesn't know what he's doing, isn't aware of what key he's playing in, doesn't know music theory, etc.   That's certainly not the same thing as what your're saying now - that you don't think Robin/ Robin's playing is appropriate.

[Genesis]

What I took exception to was your assertion that Robin doesn't know what he's doing, isn't aware of what key he's playing in, doesn't know music theory, etc.

My 'assertion' is based only on his playing. It's not like I coached him in guitar personally. If a guitarist can't play properly before people, what do they assume? That the guitarist is a brilliant wizard who's just doing something as obscure  as 'dissonant' theory OR that he just doesn't know what he's doing?

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

What I took exception to was your assertion that Robin doesn't know what he's doing, isn't aware of what key he's playing in, doesn't know music theory, etc.

My 'assertion' is based only on his playing. It's not like I coached him in guitar personally. If a guitarist can't play properly before people, what do they assume? That the guitarist is a brilliant wizard who's just doing something as obscure? as 'dissonant' theory OR that he just doesn't know what he's doing?

Like I said, you have no way of knowing the hows and whys of Robins playing. 

[ppbebe]

as I see it from the new tunes they are both needed to express many aspects of delicate human emotions.

We're still talking about GN'R  right? 

Yea but I should have thought that it should be beyond your comprehension like other things. 

Each is a musician with a difference.
The difference between them makes all the difference.

So possibly, by the time the cd is out, maybe 50 different guitarists would have played on the record, each contributing about 30 seconds depending upon their style and the mood of the music?

Says Who? Not me.

No. Buckethead was brought into GN'R bcoz of what Neemo said - THE NEED FOR A DEPENDABLE, TECHNICALLY SOUND LEAD GUITARIST.

Stop stating your bloody imagination as fact.

[Genesis]

Yea but I should have thought that it should be beyond your comprehension like other things. 

Sorry, Yoda. Everything is in ur comprehension I hope.

Stop stating your bloody imagination as fact.

The same for you with ur 'he was brought in bcoz of his 'musical difference'' and 'Robin and Buckethead compliment each other' crap.

Like I said, you have no way of knowing the hows and whys of Robins playing.

Answer the question.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

What I took exception to was your assertion that Robin doesn't know what he's doing, isn't aware of what key he's playing in, doesn't know music theory, etc.

My 'assertion' is based only on his playing. It's not like I coached him in guitar personally. If a guitarist can't play properly before people, what do they assume? That the guitarist is a brilliant wizard who's just doing something as obscure? as 'dissonant' theory OR that he just doesn't know what he's doing?

Like I said, you have no way of knowing the hows and whys of Robins playing.

Answer the question.

The question you ask "If a guitarist can't play properly before people, what do they assume?..."? first of all presumes a huge "if".?
Nonetheless, whether you or I or anyone else or a "they" thinks Robin is playing properly or not, is not indicative of whether "he knows what he is doing" or not.

The popularity of an opinion does not convert said opinion to provable fact, nor can any consensus held by said majority be validated by virtue of its popularity.

Listen, you are entitled to your opinion of Robins performance(s)... you are entitled to your opinion about whether his performance(s) are appropriate/proper for GN'R.? Music is art and as such is subjective.? Your conclusion that Robin doesn't? know what he's doing /doesn't know how to play guitar properly, however, is baseless.? You have no way of knowing the hows and whys of his playing.

You can have the opinion that the way he played something sucks, but you can not possibly know how he came to play it that way, or why.?

[Genesis]

Nonetheless, whether you or I or anyone else or a "they" thinks Robin is playing properly or not, is not indicative of whether "he knows what he is doing" or not.

You have no way of knowing the hows and whys of his playing.

You keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Do u think music theory is an obscure black art that only a few understand? Guitarists can have different styles of playing, but that's another discussion. Are u saying that no one can understand the scales that Robin uses? Bullshit. FYI, the "hows and whys" of any type of playing is known. Now, as for why he plays the wrong thing at the wrong time..., Ahhh we reach my original post...

[nesquick]

I think we will see a new robin next time the band tours, with a new style, playing more his own material (CD),? I'm sure he will be great.
Something tells me when the band comes back, they will be more Classic-Rock oriented, more "real", and less futurist than they were in 2002. I think we will see a more "real" Rock band.
U2 and Oasis, the 2 Biggest acts of this year in term of popularity (sold out stadiums at every gigs), show people are hungry for Rock music. Nobody is really interested in an ultra-futurist band, we are not in 2359. In my opinion, that aspect of the new-GN'R is out of context, out of time, and should be changed next time they tour.

[madagas]

That Ghost of Mars song does kick ass...but Robin is on rhythm and the solo at the end is clearly Bucket. Sossego is all rhythm. Somebody put a link up to that GOM song. I haven't heard it in a while. Also, Gnr fans have to let go of this obsession with the guitar solo. Great songs don't always have solos. Step out of the generic box for a while and listen to some different type of music. To me, the common denominator in all classic songs is the rhythm section-drums, bass, and guitar. Solo's are nice but certainly not a requirement. The old band is dead and not coming back. Let this new band have their chance and judge them on their music.

[Scabbie]

Fuckin hell, this is going round in circles

Does anyone have any interviews with Robin where he discusses his guitar style? Surely that would give you a better understanding of whether some of his 'out of key' playing is intentional or he made a couple of mistakes

Alternatively post a question to his website. If its not GN'R related you may get a reply!