Robin's Guitar Playing

[Genesis]

Haha. It's just your opinion.

Of course it is. 

I think it rocks..

And that's yours. So let's keep it that way.

[badapple81]

In every single post in this thread, you tried to bash Robin with this "he can't play", judgin by one fuck up. Like dave said, Slash fucked up A LOT too (just listen to November Rain in St. Louis!), but nobody cares because this is not a big deal. Robin fucked up, Slash fucked up...

Who bought Slash into the discussion? As usual it's Dave. Not me. I have more clips of Robin fucking up live, it's not just this one. In the absence of any studio material (GN'R),his live performances form the sole basis of judgement of his skills.

If that's all you've got, why not wait until the album to reserve judgement? Come on, if you're going to pull out one clip of a fuck up, you know very well it's going to stir up some shit around here  And using Slash? Well what better example that even the best can screw up live occasionaly.. I've seen it with GN'R and VR. So what. I look forward to hearing his contributions on the album.

[Genesis]

If that's all you've got, why not wait until the album to reserve judgement?

Right. We shall see. 

[Voodoochild]

Haha. It's just your opinion.

Of course it is.

I think it rocks..

And that's yours. So let's keep it that way.

Yeah, sure. Why bother to keep talkin' about the subject of the thread instead of just saying how Robin sucks?

[badapple81]

If that's all you've got, why not wait until the album to reserve judgement?

Right. We shall see.?

I hope we do 

[Genesis]

Yeah, sure. Why bother to keep talkin' about the subject of the thread instead of just saying how Robin sucks?

So u think so too? 

[Voodoochild]

Yeah, sure. Why bother to keep talkin' about the subject of the thread instead of just saying how Robin sucks?

So u think so too?

Really funny.
Ok, now you just proved how you made the thread only to bitch about Robin.

[Genesis]

Ok, now you just proved how you made the thread only to bitch about Robin.

Sure why not? I don't think his guitar skills compare to either Buckethead or Slash, so i started a thread about it. You've made ur point and i've made mine. I don't see why u have to be so uptight about it... It's not like Robin's related to u is he? Lighten up. 

[C0ma]

Ok, now you just proved how you made the thread only to bitch about Robin.

I sort of thought that was the point.

The way the thread started was to question if Robin has the tools to play lead for Guns N' Roses. The player v. player debates were brought up by the "robin" people trying to defend him, unfortunately they are defending the wrong thing. Robin misses notes, Slash misses notes, Jimi Hendrix was probably one of the worst offenders of butchering songs (*note for note) of any live guitarist. The point is all Guitar players miss notes, amy semi-educated guitar player knows not to crucify a guitar player for mis bending a note of switching up a solo durring a cover song..... But if you are going to play a solo over a song........lets try to do it in the smae key. If I am not mistaken wasn't that the point of Axl's little Izzy stroy durring the 02 Boston show. I'd like to know where the guitar tech was to shut off Robins guitar when he began playing in a different key.

No matter how many times some one (who doesn't play an instrument) says that "Thats just Robins style, thats what makes him so good"........ it doesn't make it right, in fact, it is dead wrong. Soloing out of key isn't a style, it's a reason to decide on a career change, because if you haven't picked up on musical theory after 20 years of playing, you're never going to get it.

Plaese don't take this as an "old line-up" board member bashing one of the new guys becuase I want Slash back....... I understand Slash isn't comming back, which is why I want the best available players out on stage furthering a name that Slash helped build.  I'm not even asking for Robins removal, just move him to a strictly Rythym position. From what I've heard from the 01-02 shows he handles all of the old ryrthym parts he had very well, and some of my "guitar" highlights of the 02 shows were Richards solo's.

They have the right guys, just wrong roles...............

[Voodoochild]

Ok, now you just proved how you made the thread only to bitch about Robin.

Sure why not? I don't think his guitar skills compare to either Buckethead or Slash, so i started a thread about it. You've made ur point and i've made mine. I don't see why u have to be so uptight about it... It's not like Robin's related to u is he? Lighten up.

Because I've been seeing this for a long time. It's like that old shit about "is not GNR". Blah, Robin can't play. Blah, Robin fucked up a solo in 2001. Blah, Robin this, Robin that... Again, the same thing happens in answer: Slash also fucked up, Slash this, Slash that, blah, blah, blah. But because it is the truth. Both fucked up (I AM talking about wrong key, not only wrong notes).

The thing is: why waste your time crying because Robin is in the band?

I thought this thread was to chat about Robin, not only to dissing him. I'm on Robin's side, and that's what my first post here says. After that, I was just trying to reply all the disses because I like the guy, I think he's an amazing guitar player and because I see people bashing him only because the way he looks or because they can only see the bad things about him. This is biased and unfair with him.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

The thing is: why waste your time crying because Robin is in the band?

I thought this thread was to chat about Robin, not only to dissing him. I'm on Robin's side, and that's what my first post here says. After that, I was just trying to reply all the disses because I like the guy, I think he's an amazing guitar player and because I see people bashing him only because the way he looks or because they can only see the bad things about him. This is biased and unfair with him.

Re: Robin's Guitar Playing

To borrow a phrase from Axl, "if you don't like it you'll have plenty of time to get used to (it)"   

"You?ve got the haters out there but the guys in this band it just rolls off their shoulders because they take a certain pride in their work. They?re hungry and they want to do this for all the right reasons. They want to get this material out there to the people."  Amen to that Axl.   

I'm with you Voodoochild 

Axl and the band know what's best for the band...  Everyone else's judgement is based on not enough info.

[Nytunz]

The thing is: why waste your time crying because Robin is in the band?

I thought this thread was to chat about Robin, not only to dissing him. I'm on Robin's side, and that's what my first post here says. After that, I was just trying to reply all the disses because I like the guy, I think he's an amazing guitar player and because I see people bashing him only because the way he looks or because they can only see the bad things about him. This is biased and unfair with him.

Re: Robin's Guitar Playing

To borrow a phrase from Axl, "if you don't like it you'll have plenty of time to get used to (it)"? ?

"You?ve got the haters out there but the guys in this band it just rolls off their shoulders because they take a certain pride in their work. They?re hungry and they want to do this for all the right reasons. They want to get this material out there to the people."? Amen to that Axl.? ?

I'm with you Voodoochild?

Axl and the band know what's best for the band...? Everyone else's judgement is based on not enough info.

That is so right!! Enough said in this case! We dont even know what kind of Music the new GNR wil be yet! So wait for after the album is released and then comment Robins guitarplaying!

[Genesis]

For Voodoochild, Eva GnRAxlRosette and Nytunz and all Robin fans:

WHAT C0ma said!


Shit I couldn't have said it better myself. 

[ppbebe]

the clip doesn't do any justice to Robin.
As to the off key business,
I shouldn't expect you'd hear any sort of the avant-garde let alone the noise, but what do you think of the full use of dissonance on Eminems 'encore'?

Also, there is this Love Siege.. And - why not? - IRS (the slower solo).

Aye, indications are that they are the perfect duo. no, they were... 

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

For Voodoochild, Eva GnRAxlRosette and Nytunz and all Robin fans:

WHAT C0ma said!

Shit I couldn't have said it better myself.?

Just because I don't play guitar and some of you do, doesn't mean you're going to somehow 'educate' me into believing that Robin doesn't know what he's doing!  why in the world should i believe that Robin isn't aware of how he's playing something?!

i'm not? musician, but i enjoyed reading this thread:? http://www.christianguitar.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102218

"If you don?t know any better and you play it then you are playing out of key. If you know what you are doing and you play out of the key on purpose it?s called an accidental.

An accidental is a legitimate music term meaning that the notes are not in the original key signature."

"I would like to add that when dealing with theory, it's always a good idea to keep in mind that while there are some general guidelines that you can follow...music is still an art; not a science. Nothing is absolutely "wrong" in music. It's possible to make anything sound good. Assuming of course, that you're not a closed-minded theory-snob, or anything like that. When you're open to freshness in music, and when you think of music as an art form, it's hard to say that anything is ever "absolutely wrong, all the time".

Art; not science."

Another bit from an instructional piece I found interesting...

"Chromatic and dissonant soloing. What is that? How can it help me? Well, it means you play random notes without having a tonal center. Kind of like atonal, except you are the only one playing out of key. In other words, you go through your solo playing random notes without using all the familiar patterns and clich?d riffs. It sounds weird, I know, but read on. All of the great improvisational musicians, from the blues greats to the jazz greats, sound better than most people. They can come up with awe-inspiring solos on the spot. How do they do that? Well, along with a good dose of talent and musical knowledge, they know their instruments like they know first-grade math. They have an outstanding awareness of the fretboard. They know what they are going to play long before they play it. "

I found this last passage interesting because, like I said at the beginning of my post, I've no reason to believe that Robin doesn't know how he's playing - he knows what it's gonna sound like.?

[Voodoochild]

Thanks for the good read, Eva. I don't really agree with some of the quotes, but I love this one:

"I would like to add that when dealing with theory, it's always a good idea to keep in mind that while there are some general guidelines that you can follow...music is still an art; not a science. Nothing is absolutely "wrong" in music. It's possible to make anything sound good. Assuming of course, that you're not a closed-minded theory-snob, or anything like that. When you're open to freshness in music, and when you think of music as an art form, it's hard to say that anything is ever "absolutely wrong, all the time".

Art; not science."

Of course, this will not end the whining about Robin. But it sure made it to show that there is some "closed-minded theory-snob" out there.

[Genesis]

Of course, this will not end the whining about Robin. But it sure made it to show that there is some "closed-minded theory-snob" out there.

Oh yeah, now Robin does chromatic and dissonant soloing  . First know what ur talking about before posting and stop finding excuses for his playing.

Nothing is absolutely "wrong" in music. It's possible to make anything sound good. Assuming of course, that you're not a closed-minded theory-snob, or anything like that. When you're open to freshness in music, and when you think of music as an art form, it's hard to say that anything is ever "absolutely wrong, all the time".
Art; not science."[/b]

Sure why don't we all pick up a guitar and start playing? After all, it doesn't matter if we play random crap, it's dissonant theory! Get a clue... I shudder to imagine what rock guitar would be like if everybody thought the way u do...

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Of course, this will not end the whining about Robin. But it sure made it to show that there is some "closed-minded theory-snob" out there.

Oh yeah, now Robin does chromatic and dissonant soloing . First know what ur talking about before posting and stop finding excuses for his playing.

Will you argue that this type/method does not exist?  I didn't make it up.  I don't play guitar... but I don't have to be able to play guitar to find that it's a method used by guitarists.  You should know what you're talking about - You, with your eye-rolling smiley, seem to insist that you KNOW the hows and whys of Robin's playing!  There is no way for you to know that.  Perhaps, you should think about that before you post.  (Notice how I resisted posting an eye-rolling smiley).

Nothing is absolutely "wrong" in music. It's possible to make anything sound good. Assuming of course, that you're not a closed-minded theory-snob, or anything like that. When you're open to freshness in music, and when you think of music as an art form, it's hard to say that anything is ever "absolutely wrong, all the time".
Art; not science."[/b]

Sure why don't we all pick up a guitar and start playing? After all, it doesn't matter if we play random crap, it's dissonant theory! Get a clue... I shudder to imagine what rock guitar would be like if everybody thought the way u do...

First of all, I think it'd be kick ass if we all did pick up a guitar and start playing.  Music shouldn't be off limits from anyone to explore.  It's not off limits from beginners to explore and certainly not off limits for the advanced musician to explore.  That's the way I think.  And I'm not the first.  Here's a clue for you:  Stravinsky's Rite of Spring (most popularly known from the film Fantasia). 
But really, this is not the proper forum to discuss music in general.  The thread is supposed to be specifically about  "Robin's Guitar Playing". 
I think Robin is an innovative and unique player.  You think he's just playing random crap.  I've speculated about methods Robin may employ in his playing.  You on the other hand profess to know that he just doesn't know what he's doing... he doesn't know what key he's playing in, etc.    Don't be surprised when we don't take your word for it.

[Voodoochild]

Of course, this will not end the whining about Robin. But it sure made it to show that there is some "closed-minded theory-snob" out there.

Oh yeah, now Robin does chromatic and dissonant soloing . First know what ur talking about before posting and stop finding excuses for his playing.

Will you argue that this type/method does not exist? I didn't make it up. I don't play guitar... but I don't have to be able to play guitar to find that it's a method used by guitarists. You should know what you're talking about - You, with your eye-rolling smiley, seem to insist that you KNOW the hows and whys of Robin's playing! There is no way for you to know that. Perhaps, you should think about that before you post. (Notice how I resisted posting an eye-rolling smiley).

Great reply, Eva.
First of all, I said before that Robin indeed fucked up sometimes (as Slash did too). All I was saying is how some close-minded people only cares about some particular sound and dislike everything else, bashing this and trying to change other people's mind.

I don't know who you are Genesis, if you really can play guitar or if you are just a Robin hater with nothing better to do. But I do know what I am talkin' about and I'm not finding excuses for Robin (he doesn't need that), I'm only defending him. First, you said he played off the key; I said Slash did that too. Then, you said Robin in studio don't have enough work to be heard; I uploaded a clip and showed some stuff. After that, you showed no arguments. Anyways, those quotes shows how biased you are:

What's the point of these threads?

The point of this thread is not to bash Robin. It's just to analyse if he's good enough to fill in as the lead guitarist of GN'R.

And then...

Ok, now you just proved how you made the thread only to bitch about Robin.

Sure why not? I don't think his guitar skills compare to either Buckethead or Slash, so i started a thread about it.

You like eye-rolling, so let me follow you: 

Please stop acting like a smartass, trying to put down everyone who likes Robin or don't agree with your pointless arguments.

[Genesis]

Will you argue that this type/method does not exist?  I didn't make it up.  I don't play guitar... but I don't have to be able to play guitar to find that it's a method used by guitarists.

I'm a guitarist and i know what dissonant playing is. That's not the point here. First, u argue that it's just Robin fucking up live and Slash does the same... Then after C0ma's post u pull out your dissonant theory from some christian guitar site and argue that Robin MUST be using this since he's playing out of key. Real nice.

U don't have to be a guitarist to hear how awful playing out of key sounds. Just listen to Robin playing...

First, you said he played off the key; I said Slash did that too.

Ah, as usual ur missing the point. There's a difference between playing an entire fucking solo off key and missing a few notes. Being a guitarist u should know that. Guess u don't.

Please stop acting like a smartass, trying to put down everyone who likes Robin or don't agree with your pointless arguments.

I don't give a rat's ass who likes or dislikes Robin. All we're discussing here is his playing. Why don't u refer back to ur posts to see who turned this into a "Slash does that too" thread.