NEW RUMOR

[Mikkamakka]

Years ago when they thought that CD would come out in 2001 or 2002. BTW everything that Axl or his musicians say isn't more than only a rumor.

Of course it is. If Axl say about the release date of CD on TV, would you still thinkin' this is only a regular rumor?

He talked about the release date a lot of times and none of these has ever happened, so I guess I wouldn't take his words seriously. Since his words are not reliable, I couldn't care more than it was only a rumor by a 'i-work-in-the-industry' 1 post wonder. It'd be different if the record company annonunced a release date.

[Voodoochild]

Years ago when they thought that CD would come out in 2001 or 2002. BTW everything that Axl or his musicians say isn't more than only a rumor.

Of course it is. If Axl say about the release date of CD on TV, would you still thinkin' this is only a regular rumor?

He talked about the release date a lot of times and none of these has ever happened, so I guess I wouldn't take his words seriously. Since his words are not reliable, I couldn't care more than it was only a rumor by a 'i-work-in-the-industry' 1 post wonder. It'd be different if the record company annonunced a release date.

Ok, so tell me at least one time when he said a real release date (I mean, the date, not just "next year" or so). I know he said some things in the past (like "see you next summer") and it wasn't true, but he never said something concrete about a release date.

[pilferk]

Hey all you whining negative people! Whats with all the bitching and moaning at Darkemus? At least the dude is positive and how the fuck does anyone know that he does not have some sort of inside knowledge? Yeh if he turns out to be a fraud then yeh its fucked up, until then lets not judge eh? But for me a lot of Darkemus's posts definetely makes a hell of a lot better reading than the whinging pricks who try and turn every post or rumour into something sinister or negative! Come on people we are so very very close to getting this album, lets just enjoy this barrage of news and rumours and wait for the day that we all want!!

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=11144.msg192551#msg192551

Sounds like a real positive kind of guy.

How novel.? A debate of darks credibility.

I'm not gonna point out that dark HAS actually been right in the past.? Nor will I point out that he was the point man (if not the direct source) of the IRS leak.? Nor will I point out that he's a stand up guy who's only relaying stuff he's heard from other people and that darks main flaw (if he has one) is that he can be TOO trusting and loyal a friend who has, in the past, believed the wrong people and relayed their information.? Nor will I point out that, the fact of the matter is, Axl changes his mind as frequently as most people (not including D of course ...he changes his MUCH less frequently ) change their underwear and that ANY information, reliable or not, has about as much chance of turning out to be true, tomorrow, as Axl does of launching CD via the internet independantly at the same time.

I'm not gonna point any of that stuff out (wait...or did I just??) because it's all been done before.? This particular topic has been done ad nauseum, all across this forum (and, in fact, I think it's why dark tends to post here less than he used to...it must be tiresome).? In fact...it should have it's own damn thread in the "Dead Horse" section.

Believe him or don't.? But, at this point, let's NOT relive this discussion EVERY TIME the guy posts something, eh?

Actually dark had absolutely nothing to do with the original clips of IRS leaking. He got lucky and was sent the full version after the clips were allready out there. You can bank on that.?

Not true.

The original 1 or 2 clips? No.  Everything after that. Yup.  And that's what I said.  I said he was the point man for the IRS leak...meaning the full leak. The multi-username leak.  I didn't say he was the source (in fact, in a later post, I said exactly the opposite).  I said he was the point man.  He posted it.

If you don't believe he did...well, you're wrong.  You can ask Madison over at mygnr about it.  She has the IP logs to prove it.

[pilferk]

It still doesn't mean he was the source for it. There was at least 10 other people who had it before dark, some 3-4 weeks before, but they decided not to release it after they had been in contact with sanctuary......

Again, nobody used the word "source".

Point man.

He did the posting to the public.

See my later post on the subject.

[ppbebe]

If ever!?What happen to your ever considerate self, pilferk? Or it's me?

Sounds like a real positive kind of guy.

How novel.  A debate of darks credibility.

I'm not gonna point out that dark HAS actually been right in the past.  Nor will I point out that he was the point man (if not the direct source) of the IRS leak.  Nor will I point out that he's a stand up guy who's only relaying stuff he's heard from other people and that darks main flaw (if he has one) is that he can be TOO trusting and loyal a friend who has, in the past, believed the wrong people and relayed their information.  Nor will I point out that, the fact of the matter is, Axl changes his mind as frequently as most people (not including D of course ...he changes his MUCH less frequently ) change their underwear and that ANY information, reliable or not, has about as much chance of turning out to be true, tomorrow, as Axl does of launching CD via the internet independantly at the same time.

I'm not gonna point any of that stuff out (wait...or did I just??) because it's all been done before.  This particular topic has been done ad nauseum, all across this forum (and, in fact, I think it's why dark tends to post here less than he used to...it must be tiresome).  In fact...it should have it's own damn thread in the "Dead Horse" section.

Believe him or don't.  But, at this point, let's NOT relive this discussion EVERY TIME the guy posts something, eh?

Actually dark had absolutely nothing to do with the original clips of IRS leaking. He got lucky and was sent the full version after the clips were allready out there. You can bank on that. 

as far as i'm aware, dark received the full song after there had been only one or two leaks, with very little revealed. after that, dark and i were the ones who posted more of the song (first as teaser clips), then the whole song. remember the whole biff tannen/doc brown thing on mygnr? yea, that was us. that's how the clip eventually got out there. of course, a few people obviously had it before dark, but they were probably the kind of people who keep that stuff for themselves because they know it's so valuable (like the people who have las vegas recordings), so who knows if they ever intended to let the whole thing go. the point is, HE was the one who distributed the whole song to everyone. he never claimed to be the one who recorded it first, obviously!

k, just wanted to try to clear that up...

It still doesn't mean he was the source for it. There was at least 10 other people who had it before dark, some 3-4 weeks before, but they decided not to release it after they had been in contact with sanctuary......

exactly my point... the people who had it weren't gonna spread it. dark somehow got it and gave it to the rest of us... despite what sanctuary may have wanted... people may have their own opinions about whether that was a good thing or a bad thing, but i think most fans are happy dark shared it to us. honestly, i'm not 100% sure what youre point is.... nobody ever claimed dark was the original source for the leak, but he WAS the source that ultimately gave it directly to the remaining 99.9999% of the fans who werent lucky enough to be one of hte select few to have it. 

You're not sure? As if!
His point is clear as bell. Read your huge quote. Who are the people pilferk is praising for their novelty there?  Are they, well except for a few jokers, the ones that got the damn thing after DARK? Are they the remaining 99.9999% of the fans or the selected few? Chinese Blues simply cleared it up. That's all. Don't shoot the messenger.

To be honest, it's rather your posts in this thread that I keep failing to see the points.
There's big difference between believing someone and believing in him.
Taking a hard look at someone's info or his source is one thing and being hard on him is quite another, which dark himself would agree on?judging from his posts.

Anyhow,
This and that are different matters.
Just because you don't (have to) thank someone for one thing, doesn't mean you won't thank him for another. And just because you don't thank him for this one, vice versa.

[WARose]

Years ago when they thought that CD would come out in 2001 or 2002. BTW everything that Axl or his musicians say isn't more than only a rumor.

Of course it is. If Axl say about the release date of CD on TV, would you still thinkin' this is only a regular rumor?

He talked about the release date a lot of times and none of these has ever happened, so I guess I wouldn't take his words seriously. Since his words are not reliable, I couldn't care more than it was only a rumor by a 'i-work-in-the-industry' 1 post wonder. It'd be different if the record company annonunced a release date.

Ok, so tell me at least one time when he said a real release date (I mean, the date, not just "next year" or so). I know he said some things in the past (like "see you next summer") and it wasn't true, but he never said something concrete about a release date.

besides you can`t tell me you wouldn`t get excited if axl would show up on tv tomorrow and would say that Chinese Democracy is going to come out soon. even since axl said that before and it didn`t come true.....

maybe i didn`t get your point voodoochild, but i think there`s a big difference between a rumour by someone who works at sanctuary and a rumour axl started....

[Voodoochild]

Years ago when they thought that CD would come out in 2001 or 2002. BTW everything that Axl or his musicians say isn't more than only a rumor.

Of course it is. If Axl say about the release date of CD on TV, would you still thinkin' this is only a regular rumor?

He talked about the release date a lot of times and none of these has ever happened, so I guess I wouldn't take his words seriously. Since his words are not reliable, I couldn't care more than it was only a rumor by a 'i-work-in-the-industry' 1 post wonder. It'd be different if the record company annonunced a release date.

Ok, so tell me at least one time when he said a real release date (I mean, the date, not just "next year" or so). I know he said some things in the past (like "see you next summer") and it wasn't true, but he never said something concrete about a release date.

besides you can`t tell me you wouldn`t get excited if axl would show up on tv tomorrow and would say that Chinese Democracy is going to come out soon. even since axl said that before and it didn`t come true.....

maybe i didn`t get your point voodoochild, but i think there`s a big difference between a rumour by someone who works at sanctuary and a rumour axl started....

Yeah, you didn't get my point. I was saying exactly the same thing: there's a huge difference between a rumour by some average joe and something Axl himself said.

[Mikkamakka]

Years ago when they thought that CD would come out in 2001 or 2002. BTW everything that Axl or his musicians say isn't more than only a rumor.

Of course it is. If Axl say about the release date of CD on TV, would you still thinkin' this is only a regular rumor?

He talked about the release date a lot of times and none of these has ever happened, so I guess I wouldn't take his words seriously. Since his words are not reliable, I couldn't care more than it was only a rumor by a 'i-work-in-the-industry' 1 post wonder. It'd be different if the record company annonunced a release date.

Ok, so tell me at least one time when he said a real release date (I mean, the date, not just "next year" or so). I know he said some things in the past (like "see you next summer") and it wasn't true, but he never said something concrete about a release date.

besides you can`t tell me you wouldn`t get excited if axl would show up on tv tomorrow and would say that Chinese Democracy is going to come out soon. even since axl said that before and it didn`t come true.....

maybe i didn`t get your point voodoochild, but i think there`s a big difference between a rumour by someone who works at sanctuary and a rumour axl started....

Yeah, you didn't get my point. I was saying exactly the same thing: there's a huge difference between a rumour by some average joe and something Axl himself said.

First of all, if a leader of a band says that their new album will come out next year in it's not out, not even 4 years later, than that guy isn't reliable at all. Agree?

Axl has never stated a release day, but he told the month (and year...) of the release. I think it's concrete enough, and he failed to deliver. Again and again.

Just two quotes:

R&P: We know that Chinese Democracy will be released in June, but we wanted to know what the reasons are for taking so long before releasing the album?

Axl: We hadn't written songs or recorded for many years. There were band changes and there were many changes in the record company. People in the record company had many opinions and they wanted to make the best possible record. Every time that we thought that we had the correct songs, then somebody thought that we could make it better. We started over, we continued adding songs, continued recording and recording. I think that when we release the album, it's gonna be something that I'm gonna be proud of and confident in. Then, we will also have an extra heap of songs. This band has played only been together for six weeks before Rio. So it is still very new for them to play together as band, with Robin (Finck) and Buckethead. That was a surprise. Obviously, that was the correct decision to make, but it was not originally planned to have three guitarists.

He didn't deny that CD would come out in June, 2001.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=38

DJ: When is it gonna be the new album? Is it possible that we're gonna have a new record from Guns N' Roses?

Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter.

January 2001

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=39

[jameslofton29]

Thanks, Serpico. I knew there was a quote where Axl actually mentioned a month for CD, but I couldnt remember where/when he did it. Most of the people here say that Axl has never given a specific timetable for the album. Obviously, he has.

[nesquick]

but it was not originally planned to have three guitarists.

Axl said that? Axl really said that??----> That's a GREAT news for me. Axl recognized the new band wasn't made for 3 guitar players. is it the return of reason? Stick with 2 players, Richard-Robin, don't forget there are also 2 keyboards, there are enough people to make it huge, a cohesive guitar duet brings much more to a band. I think there is 99% of possibility to see the band perform with 2 guitarists next time they tour. Quality over quantity, a tigher band is a better band. Richard-Robin duet, bye bye Buckethead, this band is almost a dream band for me now?

[WARose]

Years ago when they thought that CD would come out in 2001 or 2002. BTW everything that Axl or his musicians say isn't more than only a rumor.

Of course it is. If Axl say about the release date of CD on TV, would you still thinkin' this is only a regular rumor?

He talked about the release date a lot of times and none of these has ever happened, so I guess I wouldn't take his words seriously. Since his words are not reliable, I couldn't care more than it was only a rumor by a 'i-work-in-the-industry' 1 post wonder. It'd be different if the record company annonunced a release date.

Ok, so tell me at least one time when he said a real release date (I mean, the date, not just "next year" or so). I know he said some things in the past (like "see you next summer") and it wasn't true, but he never said something concrete about a release date.

besides you can`t tell me you wouldn`t get excited if axl would show up on tv tomorrow and would say that Chinese Democracy is going to come out soon. even since axl said that before and it didn`t come true.....

maybe i didn`t get your point voodoochild, but i think there`s a big difference between a rumour by someone who works at sanctuary and a rumour axl started....

Yeah, you didn't get my point. I was saying exactly the same thing: there's a huge difference between a rumour by some average joe and something Axl himself said.

well  i think i was referring to officer frank and mixed it up.....  so i think i got your point

but it was not originally planned to have three guitarists.

Axl said that? Axl really said that??----> That's a GREAT news for me. Axl recognized the new band wasn't made for 3 guitar players. is it the return of reason? Stick with 2 players, Richard-Robin, don't forget there are also 2 keyboards, there are enough people to make it huge, a cohesive guitar duet brings much more to a band. I think there is 99% of possibility to see the band perform with 2 guitarists next time they tour. Quality over quantity, a tigher band is a better band. Richard-Robin duet, bye bye Buckethead, this band is almost a dream band for me now 

well this is an interview from 2001 i think. so it doesn`t mean a lot....    by the way i never heard of that interview, could someone post the whole interview?

[mikegiuliana]

Thanks, Serpico. I knew there was a quote where Axl actually mentioned a month for CD, but I couldnt remember where/when he did it. Most of the people here say that Axl has never given a specific timetable for the album. Obviously, he has.

he said hopefully so that doesn't count./ Axl always tells the truth.. Spring next summer he has mentioned seasons, he just never steps up..

[WARose]

Thanks, Serpico. I knew there was a quote where Axl actually mentioned a month for CD, but I couldnt remember where/when he did it. Most of the people here say that Axl has never given a specific timetable for the album. Obviously, he has.

he said hopefully so that doesn't count./ Axl always tells the truth.. Spring next summer he has mentioned seasons, he just never steps up..

i don`t blame axl for his misconception about the release of chinese democracy or tours, but after rio aswell as after the msg show he said see you next summer without adding a "hopefully".  and as we all know he was wrong both times...

[pilferk]

If ever!?What happen to your ever considerate self, pilferk? Or it's me?


You're not sure? As if!
His point is clear as bell. Read your huge quote. Who are the people pilferk is praising for their novelty there?? Are they, well except for a few jokers, the ones that got the damn thing after DARK? Are they the remaining 99.9999% of the fans or the selected few? Chinese Blues simply cleared it up. That's all. Don't shoot the messenger.

To be honest, it's rather your posts in this thread that I keep failing to see the points.
There's big difference between believing someone and believing in him.
Taking a hard look at someone's info or his source is one thing and being hard on him is quite another, which dark himself would agree on?judging from his posts.

Anyhow,
This and that are different matters.
Just because you don't (have to) thank someone for one thing, doesn't mean you won't thank him for another. And just because you don't thank him for this one, vice versa.

It's not that I'm not being considerate.  It's just a bit frustrating....

It's that EVERY time dark posts, we get this same sort of discussion.  As I said....it deserves it's own thread in "Dead Horse".

And all anyone brings up is the crap.  No one ever brings up the flip side.

I'm not saying the rumor is true or not true.  I think cases can be made for both sides on that one.  It will be, completely, a matter of opinion on whether you choose to believe or not.

What I'm saying is that the continuing criticism of dark, and questioning of his credibility, is old news.  Discuss the rumor in the thread about the rumor......the "ad hominem" stuff has been done to death.

And people wondered why he didn't post it directly here???

[Lord Kayoss]

but remember.. until we hear from the Red headed recluse, himself - take it ALL with a grain of salt.

-darknemus
[/i]

That's the only significant line in the guy's whole post.

[jarmo]

What I'm saying is that the continuing criticism of dark, and questioning of his credibility, is old news.?

The credibility of the source is interesting in any case involving a rumor, don't you think?

And people wondered why he didn't post it directly here???

Because we just don't automatically believe everything he, or any other source, says?




/jarmo

[pilferk]

What I'm saying is that the continuing criticism of dark, and questioning of his credibility, is old news.?

The credibility of the source is interesting in any case involving a rumor, don't you think?

Yes, discussion of the credibility of a source is pertinent...

the first 10 times we have it.

The next 10, 20, 30, 40 times, though...not so much.

I know we have a revolving door of posters here and it's not a static community.  I know lots of people have not read "the old threads" on the subject.  I know all that.

But the same is true of every other Dead Horse subject.....and discussion of that subject, even if it's "new info" gets moved over.

This exact same conversation takes place every time dark posts (or, in this case, has a post transplanted).  Every time.  That, to me at least, isn't compelling or interesting.

And people wondered why he didn't post it directly here???

Because we just don't automatically believe everything he, or any other source, says?

/jarmo

Actually, it's for exactly the reason I gave.  Every time he posts here what ensues is a "dark discussion", rather than a discusssion of what he's posted.  It gets tiresome.  If it were me, and every post became "about me", rather than what I'd posted...I suspect I'd feel the same way.

If, every single time you posted jarmo, we all brought up the "credibility" thing that relates to being hosted by Sanctuary....you'd get a little tired of it, yeah?  I mean, it's pertinent, right?  But, given the discussion on it has been done to death...it's not really compelling to bring it up every time you post.  I'd even wager that continually doing it would get the posts moved to dead horse (and possible banning).  Same point with dark. 

[Voodoochild]

But we were talkin about the rumour itself. The thing is: there's no news there. He just stated a bunch of obvious bets with no reliable source. So, I guess it's fair to discuss about darknemus credibility.

[pilferk]

But we were talkin about the rumour itself. The thing is: there's no news there. He just stated a bunch of obvious bets with no reliable source. So, I guess it's fair to discuss about darknemus credibility.

Define "news".

There's nothing we haven't heard before, true.? Which is either an indication the rumor is true (since it mirrors what we've heard) or that it's "made up" (cobbled together from what we've heard).? I'm not saying everyone should believe it.? I'm also not saying they shouldn't.? That's why it's a rumor.

I'm saying that, debating darks credibility for the umpteenth time, is a waste of time and effort.? Is it pertinent? Maybe, depending on how you feel about the rumor, itself.? But it's been done to death....and not one person, in this thread, has brought up anything that hasn't been posted before, and discussed ad nauseaum.? Not one person.

There is pertinent discussion that occurs in "The Dead Horse" section, too.? But it's they're still "dead horse" issues.

There are plenty of posters who have "flavor" that color their posts.? Plenty.? But you will notice that it is not brought up EVERY SINGLE time they post (or, in this case, have a post transplanted here).?

And, once again, the thread is becoming about "dark" and not about the rumor, itself.

[darknemus]

Just a real quick note, in case people thought I just posted this and vanished or something.  I'm back out in St. Louis again (this travelling thing is a nightmare) - I haven't heard back from my friend in a few days. (No big surprise there, happens alot - especially at end / beginning of month type time).  It is , again, entirely possible that none of this is true.  I simply wish to reiterate that for those that seem to think i'm trying to spread the gospel or something.  I'm not.  I'm sharing interesting information that comes my way - I don't vouch for its reliability except to say that I believe its information that was really told to my friend.  I hope its true - but who the hell knows.  This is, after all, GNR.

As soon as I get more information that verifies, cancels out, corroborates, or expands on this rumor (well, set of rumors, really) - I'll be glad to share.  I probably won't have a chance to respond to many threads / PMs this week, as my schedule is shaping up to be brutal.

By the way, I really appreciate the people that come to my defense.  Not because I think I need defending, but moreso because they actually have an inkling of the guy behind the keyboard - and know enough about me to know that I don't get off on intentionally misleading the fanbase.

On the IRS leak - Although I spelled out the story before.. I'll explain once again for the sake of those slightly confused.

A. About 2 days after IRS initially played, I listened to a copy of it - I also described it to my friends at the time.  (online friends, anyway) - as I've said before.. I heard it in a Production studio crouched behind a console.. I felt like I was 12, but it was cool.

B. The first IRS 'clip' that leaked wasn't by me.  Although I have reasonable suspicion it came from the same audio source.  (A source that I still sometimes wonder if it was a ripped CD digitally manipulated, as opposed to the radio recording story.)

C. A few people that day got IRS emailed to them.. via GMail (Smart cookie, the emailer - GMail's inbound IPs are untraceable).  Once I got the file from two different people in gmail PLUS a thrird person online I decided that, well, this is a stupid game - lets put a stop to it.

D. I, along with AxlGunner, concocted the Biff Tannen / Doc Brown thing.   Well, before that I was Argentian4Axl!! and, umm, he was I.R.S. (Irwin R. Schyster).  The main reason the full track wasn't leaked the first time was I wanted to post a clip or two, wait a bit - and see if anyone else would bite the bullet and post the whole thing.  No one did, so I said "fuck it" - and took the plunge.

E. I am NOT the person who recorded it off the radio (if such an event occurred) nor did I rip it off of the fabled 'Trunk CD' - all I did was put the track into a much wider distribution.  I did so because I felt the fanbase deserved it, period.  There was no ulterior motive.  It was done because I really don't know how to be a dick.  As tempting as it might have been.  Its the same reason my friend refuses to hook me up with the DAT - he knows the temptation would be too great for me to share it with the other fans.. its that whole 'hacker ethic' - sue me.

F. Oh yeah, I'm not the guy / girl / entities running or involved in any way with gnfr.com - I just thought I'd point that out for those that still seem to immediately think I'm the guy behind that.  Hell, I don't even know Flash.. I know, I suck.

Peace out,

-darknemus