The making of the Last Supper

[0lorin]

For a while now I have been reading around and doing some researching on Leonardo Da Vinci, who was blessed with one of the greatest minds in the entire history of the human race, he was quite brilliant. I have been interested in him for a while now and although the word ?genius? is used to describe many people, whether deserved or not, this is a man who truly was that. Leonardo = Genius.
And with him came the many varied eccentricities that tends to be associated with genius?s, a very colourful character indeed.

I came across a chapter detailing Leonardo?s greatest work, his masterpiece, The Last Supper. There is a passage in it that instantly made me think of Axl Rose and the way he seems to work while he is creating his own works of art, and the way people who have been involved with him have described his work methods, and also the way axl described himself painstakingly piecing together November Rain, and from what we know of the long, long process of making Chinese Democracy.

This is a quote from the 1490?s from a novice monk at the Dominican monastery of Santa Maria delle Grazie in Milan. His name was Matteo Bandello, he later became a novelist, but at this time he was just a boy who would pass the time by watching Leonardo painting the great masterpiece Cenacolo or Last Supper as we know it.

?He would arrive early, climb up onto the scaffolding and set to work. Sometimes he stayed there from dawn to sunset, never once laying down his brush, forgetting to eat and drink, painting without pause.
At other times he would go for two, three or four days without touching his brush, but spending several hours a day in front of the work, his arms folded, examining and criticizing the figures to himself.
I also saw him, driven by some sudden urge, at midday, when the sun was at its height, leaving the Corte Vecchia, where I was watching him working on another of his projects, his marvellous clay horse, to return to Santa Maria delle Grazie, without seeking shade, and clamber back up onto the scaffolding in front of Cenacolo, pick up a brush, put in one or two strokes, then climb down and go away again.?

The author continuous after this quote- ?a glimpse of the maestro at work? he says -? it expresses his creative rhythm, the bursts of strenuousness interspersed by those puzzling spells of silent cogitation which others- particularly those who were paying him- tended to mistake for dreamy inactivity.?

Remind you of anyone?

I thought, what with the new Da Vinci Code rumour, I would share that with you all. I hope you agree there is something similar between the two men, and also I hope that Chinese Democracy will be Axl Rose?s great masterpiece and once he is finally satisfied with it, he will unveil it to the world and instead of being labelled a crazy, washed up recluse, he will have all the critics labelling him an eccentric genius, who quite rightly took his time, because, hey ? you can?t rush art.
 

[HoldenCaulfield]

Very cool post. I agree, and in fact, if you look at a lot of the geniuses of time, they all exibit a lot of the same qualities: obsessive, shy/quiet/tame, extremely creative, introspective, reclusive, etc. Axl shares a lot of these qualities, and like you, I just hope that Axl will get the praise he is rightfully entitled to. Someone that works that hard and so obsessively on one piece of art (album, painting, book, whatever) should be showed due respect...

[ppbebe]

Yeah, I agree that  Leonardo is an unparalleled Genius.
His name is synonymous with genius. He was a genius in multiple fields.

As I see it, Axl looks more like the Michelangelo type as an artist.

[saint seiya]

sorry but i just find this very idiotic. The same thing could be said about any artist. just because theres a rumour that a new gnr song might be in the da vinci code movie dont mean shit.

[SkinnyPuppy]

As I see it, Axl looks more like the Michelangelo type as an artist.

[Carlos_f_Rose]

Well my friend, I have some things to say....

First, excellent interests man, it says a lot of you and your education,  then, I think It will certainly be Axl's master piece,  remember no one else controls the destiny of Gnr, and the hired Gunners, are just a way to reach perfection for Axl, even when Its been said that Axl, respects everyone's opinions, well certainly there are things he doesnt like about the album, and he changes them, then its only An Axl Rose album, wich I honestly respect and like...  Remember man, a Genious, is not always, respected and apreciated in his/her time, just like Vincen Van Gogh, you may know about this guy... at last, I think you read the "Da"Vinci Code" right?  well its an amusing, and interesting book in my opinion.
@;-,-.-.,-,-.----tpr have fun dudes...

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Very cool post/quotes Olorin.? Thank you for sharing.? ?


Since I first learned about DaVinci as a youngster, I've found him fascinating.? Equally fascinating is the varying appreciation of art...? such as the Mona Lisa:

"It is a small painting of a girl smiling. But why is this painting so famous? Is it Mona?s mysterious smile that has turned the heads of many people in the world?. It has captured the hearts of many people because they want to know why Mona is smiling, What made her smile, and is she even smiling? Some might just say that it is a smiling girl while others will say that it is an amazing masterpiece.But who is really right? If you look at her smile long enough it disappears and makes it even more mysterious. But really, what is the big deal? It is a very simple painting of a girl with a simple backround. It is not even very big. And it is not flashy or exciting. There are no colors that catch your eye or amazing detail that draws you to it. It is just a simple painting of a girl smiling."? - http://www.jordan.palo-alto.ca.us/department/public/art~mmedia/portraitquest/kaela/portraitquest/monalisa.html

In my opinion, art and the appreciation of art (the valuing of art) enriches life/being...
There is no reasoning or knowledge which can reduce or eliminate the value of art.
Art not only exists in its own plane, but I believe that as "the aesthetic" it transcends ethics, intellect, and faith.
Though subjective, and lacking the potential to alter or even expose 'actual reality', the appreciation of art does go beyond one's self - it alters (and expresses) the world as we know it... (which I tend to believe is the only reality individuals can appreciate.)

[Mr. Dick Purple]

Axl is a great artist, interpreter, he knows how to get to his audience like few does, and yes he can be compare with Leonardo Da vinci. But the common factor that this both caracthers share is their creativeness to fit their ideas to ones they want to share.
Everyone can be obsessive, inteligent and even creative, the thing is that the audience like your job. 

[ppbebe]

As I see it, Axl looks more like the Michelangelo type as an artist.

What a shitty trick and a petty mind.  To express your disagreement with me, you don't have to have a tasteless pic say f-word. Use your own words, Goebbels.

Besides, you're dead wrong. Where did I state a theory.
If forced to compare him to one of the renaissance giants, I'd say Michelangelo for his gigantic passion and perseverance. His works are powerful and dynamic as contrasted with Leonard's neat n cool ones.

[jarmo]

As I see it, Axl looks more like the Michelangelo type as an artist.

What the fuck?

Since when is posting pointless pics adding anything to the discussion?

If you don't have anything to say about the subject, keep your picture collection to yourself. Or find another board where that kind of posts are considered "cool".



/jarmo

[0lorin]

Well my friend, I have some things to say....

First, excellent interests man, it says a lot of you and your education,? then, I think It will certainly be Axl's master piece,? remember no one else controls the destiny of Gnr, and the hired Gunners, are just a way to reach perfection for Axl, even when Its been said that Axl, respects everyone's opinions, well certainly there are things he doesnt like about the album, and he changes them, then its only An Axl Rose album, wich I honestly respect and like...? Remember man, a Genious, is not always, respected and apreciated in his/her time, just like Vincen Van Gogh, you may know about this guy... at last, I think you read the "Da"Vinci Code" right?? well its an amusing, and interesting book in my opinion.
@;-,-.-.,-,-.----tpr have fun dudes...

Well I think its fair to say that Axl, nay - Guns N'Roses have more respect from the critics now than they did in their prime, in their heyday they had huge amounts of negative critisism and went through periods when they were really mundane. But over the period of time their greatness still stands tall - the legendery performances that they gave on the nights when everything clicked perfectly and they produced the goods that few bands can, have or ever will rival and also the great timeless music that they made together. People only remember the good things or the really terrible things never the mundane or average and thus the respect has grown over the years and now they are known and respected as "Rock Legends" and this respect will continue to grow as the decades pass and their legend grows larger.

Yup, I have read the Da Vinci Code, if you take it at face value it is a really engrossing, fast flowing clever crime thriller. I really enjoyed it. As for the theorys it contains I would rather do some sleuthing on my on than take for granted what Dan Brown writes, much of what he passes for fact has been proved false or exagerated. But it definently throws up some worthwhile points, like the contrived history of the church and their treatment of women.
Personally I do believe that Jesus was a man who had a wife.
I don't believe he was son of a god, walked on water and performed various miracles.

[0lorin]

Very cool post/quotes Olorin.? Thank you for sharing.? ?


Since I first learned about DaVinci as a youngster, I've found him fascinating.? Equally fascinating is the varying appreciation of art...? such as the Mona Lisa:

"It is a small painting of a girl smiling. But why is this painting so famous? Is it Mona?s mysterious smile that has turned the heads of many people in the world?. It has captured the hearts of many people because they want to know why Mona is smiling, What made her smile, and is she even smiling? Some might just say that it is a smiling girl while others will say that it is an amazing masterpiece.But who is really right? If you look at her smile long enough it disappears and makes it even more mysterious. But really, what is the big deal? It is a very simple painting of a girl with a simple backround. It is not even very big. And it is not flashy or exciting. There are no colors that catch your eye or amazing detail that draws you to it. It is just a simple painting of a girl smiling."? - http://www.jordan.palo-alto.ca.us/department/public/art~mmedia/portraitquest/kaela/portraitquest/monalisa.html

In my opinion, art and the appreciation of art (the valuing of art) enriches life/being...
There is no reasoning or knowledge which can reduce or eliminate the value of art.
Art not only exists in its own plane, but I believe that as "the aesthetic" it transcends ethics, intellect, and faith.
Though subjective, and lacking the potential to alter or even expose 'actual reality', the appreciation of art does go beyond one's self - it alters (and expresses) the world as we know it... (which I tend to believe is the only reality individuals can appreciate.)

  Nice one. Its a beautiful philosophy you have, the Mona Lisa seem to be the stand out example of this, I wonder what Leonardo would think if he knew what effect this painting would have on people for such a period of time, and for the next 500 years I would think.
So what do you think? Is it a self portrait?
I do actually think that there is something in that theory, it does share an uncanny look of a younger version of the old bearded man in his other self portrait.

[Carlos_f_Rose]

Well man, talking about the Book "Da Vinci Code" ? I liked it, and enjoyed reading it, but Honestly I still dont know what it is a best seller, certainly there are better books, anyway, Its just my opinion, and remember this, Axl, so far is just a human being, he hasnt shown anything that certainly proves that he is a genius yet, even when his music is excellent, but He hasnt reached a place where he can be considered a Beethoven, mozart or something like those, I hope he doesnt try to reach them, maybe he'll get dissapointed and frustrated... and maybe WE the fans, have overrated him, because of Our love and respect towards him, anyway, I will still support his work... and art... even if I dont understand it...

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Well man, talking about the Book "Da Vinci Code"? ?I liked it, and enjoyed reading it, but Honestly I still dont know what it is a best seller, certainly there are better books, anyway, Its just my opinion, and remember this, Axl, so far is just a human being, he hasnt shown anything that certainly proves that he is a genius yet, even when his music is excellent, but He hasnt reached a place where he can be considered a Beethoven, mozart or something like those, I hope he doesnt try to reach them, maybe he'll get dissapointed and frustrated... and maybe WE the fans, have overrated him, because of Our love and respect towards him, anyway, I will still support his work... and art... even if I dont understand it...

That's cool..? ? There is 'genius' not widely recognized.? One could even say that the appreciation of genius is subjective.? There are often people who believe that genius widely recognized by others, is overrated.

Especially when the accomplishments of the 'genius' are not tangible, or there isn't an established standard by which to measure the accomplishments of the 'genius'.? Thomas Edison and Benjamin Franklin (among others) made tangible discoveries and inventions which served as tangible evidence their genius and their accomplishments were recognized immediately (though perhaps even then not recognzied as genuius!)

The art of Beethoven, Mozart, Picasso, Michealangelo (among others) have been demmed genius due to the impact thier art has made....? but the nature of art is that it's impact may not be made at the time it is created.

Anyway...If Axl isn't considered a genius by 'the whole world', it doesn't diminish what he's accomplished in becoming a genius 'to his fans'.? Even if others find him 'overrated', its undeniable that he's made quite an impact!? ?

Very cool post/quotes Olorin.? Thank you for sharing.? ?


Since I first learned about DaVinci as a youngster, I've found him fascinating.? Equally fascinating is the varying appreciation of art...? such as the Mona Lisa:

"It is a small painting of a girl smiling. But why is this painting so famous? Is it Mona?s mysterious smile that has turned the heads of many people in the world?. It has captured the hearts of many people because they want to know why Mona is smiling, What made her smile, and is she even smiling? Some might just say that it is a smiling girl while others will say that it is an amazing masterpiece.But who is really right? If you look at her smile long enough it disappears and makes it even more mysterious. But really, what is the big deal? It is a very simple painting of a girl with a simple backround. It is not even very big. And it is not flashy or exciting. There are no colors that catch your eye or amazing detail that draws you to it. It is just a simple painting of a girl smiling."? - http://www.jordan.palo-alto.ca.us/department/public/art~mmedia/portraitquest/kaela/portraitquest/monalisa.html

In my opinion, art and the appreciation of art (the valuing of art) enriches life/being...
There is no reasoning or knowledge which can reduce or eliminate the value of art.
Art not only exists in its own plane, but I believe that as "the aesthetic" it transcends ethics, intellect, and faith.
Though subjective, and lacking the potential to alter or even expose 'actual reality', the appreciation of art does go beyond one's self - it alters (and expresses) the world as we know it... (which I tend to believe is the only reality individuals can appreciate.)

  Nice one. Its a beautiful philosophy you have, the Mona Lisa seem to be the stand out example of this, I wonder what Leonardo would think if he knew what effect this painting would have on people for such a period of time, and for the next 500 years I would think.
So what do you think? Is it a self portrait?
I do actually think that there is something in that theory, it does share an uncanny look of a younger version of the old bearded man in his other self portrait.

I think that artists often unconciously 'project' themselves into their art to varying degress - even when its supposed to be a representation of something/someone else.? This is most? done to a such a degree that its mostly imperceptible.? There are times however when the image of the creator seems evident.

I've looked at http://www.mos.org/leonardo/artist.html and can see how this theory is being suggested...? ?Do I think it has a touch of Leonardo in it?? Yes.? Did he mean for it to be a self portrait?? I think the similarities were unconcious.? Nonetheless the Mona Lisa is so keenly identifed with DaVinci, and vice-versa, can it not be deemed a self-portrait on that basis alone?!?

[ppbebe]

Point taken.
And as an extension of your augment,
I illustrate what I said earlier with the images.

I for one find Michelangelo's works more fascinating. Basically the brands like genius, prodigy(not the band name) or pedigree etc don't fascinate me that much.

Seeing is believing.
I Take The last judgement (on the altar wall of the Sistine Chapel, which Michelangelo worked on from 1534 to 41, 1370 x 1220 cm) and the last supper (1494, 460 x 880 cm) for examples,


Leonard the last supper 1494, 460 x 880 cm


Michelangelo The last judgement 1534~41, 1370 x 1220 cm


Quote from the caption for The last judgement

The painting is a turning point in the history of art. Vasari predicted the phenomenal impact of the work: "This sublime painting", he wrote, "should serve as a model for our art. Divine Providence has bestowed it upon the world to show how much intelligence she can deal out to certain men on earth. The most expert draftsman trembles as he contemplates these bold outlines and marvellous foreshortenings. In the presence of this celestial work, the senses are paralysed, and one can only wonder at the works that came before and the works that shall come after".


To me earthshattering is the word for this painting.
I imagine this sublime piece was just a blurred graffiti on a wall even in 1540.


I'd rather CD would be "the last judgement" of Rock.