Bitch about other governments here- I'm sick of reading Anti-Bush Threads

[Will]

Ok off topic at this point...
I started this thread to see what the problems are in other countries... we simply don't get much news of them here. This is turning into an american thread again. Someone bitch about Norway, Iceland, Hong Kong please....

Well, I didn't bitch about these countries, but I bitched about mine (cuz I thought it was the thread's subject). Maybe you missed my post:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=22519.msg392686#msg392686

Funny that some people here always complain about anti-US posts/ threads, then a thread is started to "bitch about other governments" (our own I guess, cuz there's bad stuff everywhere anyway, France for instance is FAR from being perfect)...and after a few posts all I read is random anti-French comments and people who nicely defend us. I thank them for that, but the anti-xxxx comments are not needed in the first place.

I'd be the first to criticize my lame government (and other lame things about France) but if we can't have an adult discussion and have to come back to the "we won WWII and saved your ass" comments every time, I don't see the point.

Anyway, the first thing that worries me about France is that we have a very bad workforce system, 10 million people are unemployed and it's tough as fuck to find a job here. French people complain about the US/ UK systems that have less unemployment but a higher rate of temp jobs and less job security. Fair enough, when I ask what their solution is, the only answer I have is: "huuuhh...". Anyway, so that's one thing. Rain covered the healthcare issues basically. I'm also tired as fuck to be ruled by old farts (if Chirac is reelected - which I hope won't happen, he'll be almost 80 at the end of his mandate). Most politicians in France are old and don't get what the people want/ need, they don't understand the youth especially. They don't know what it is to look for an apartment or a job. That's the biggest problem I have with our politicians here I think. They're just so estranged from the French people that they just don't get it, they try to set up new laws/ systems and every time we get angry because they never listen to us.

[Rain]

Ok off topic at this point...
I started this thread to see what the problems are in other countries... we simply don't get much news of them here. This is turning into an american thread again. Someone bitch about Norway, Iceland, Hong Kong please....

Well, I didn't bitch about these countries, but I bitched about mine (cuz I thought it was the thread's subject). Maybe you missed my post:

We, french, have this ability : we are able to complain about everything. Even when the party we voted for is in office ! 

[KeVoRkIaN]

Ok off topic at this point...
I started this thread to see what the problems are in other countries... we simply don't get much news of them here. This is turning into an american thread again. Someone bitch about Norway, Iceland, Hong Kong please....

Well, I didn't bitch about these countries, but I bitched about mine (cuz I thought it was the thread's subject). Maybe you missed my post:

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=22519.msg392686#msg392686

Funny that some people here always complain about anti-US posts/ threads, then a thread is started to "bitch about other governments" (our own I guess, cuz there's bad stuff everywhere anyway, France for instance is FAR from being perfect)...and after a few posts all I read is random anti-French comments and people who nicely defend us. I thank them for that, but the anti-xxxx comments are not needed in the first place.

I'd be the first to criticize my lame government (and other lame things about France) but if we can't have an adult discussion and have to come back to the "we won WWII and saved your ass" comments every time, I don't see the point.

Anyway, the first thing that worries me about France is that we have a very bad workforce system, 10 million people are unemployed and it's tough as fuck to find a job here. French people complain about the US/ UK systems that have less unemployment but a higher rate of temp jobs and less job security. Fair enough, when I ask what their solution is, the only answer I have is: "huuuhh...". Anyway, so that's one thing. Rain covered the healthcare issues basically. I'm also tired as fuck to be ruled by old farts (if Chirac is reelected - which I hope won't happen, he'll be almost 80 at the end of his mandate). Most politicians in France are old and don't get what the people want/ need, they don't understand the youth especially. They don't know what it is to look for an apartment or a job. That's the biggest problem I have with our politicians here I think. They're just so estranged from the French people that they just don't get it, they try to set up new laws/ systems and every time we get angry because they never listen to us.

No i did see your post and was thankful for you writing it!  I am not a Chirac fan myself

[POPmetal]

Norway

In spite of sky high taxes and considerable oil wealth, the welfare system has major shortcomings. Hospitals are understaffed. There aren't enough kindergartens and child care costs are too high. Oil prices are as high as those in oil-less countries, even though Norway is stacked with North Sea oil.

[POPmetal]

Italy

Silvio Berlusconi has used his power to ensure that his personal business interests flourish, while failing to implement the reforms he promised, including higher tax cuts and less regulation. As a result, the Italian economy has been stagnant and the outlook for economic growth is bleak. The only thing that's growing in Italy is the budget deficit. On top of that, to combat his declining popularity, his ruling coalition recently changed Italy's election rules to give themselves an advantage. He is beginning to look more like a corrupt African ruler than a democratically elected European prime minister. Berlosconi and his party are an embarrassment to Italy and all of Europe.

[POPmetal]

China

Where do I start?!?

Corruption is massive and widespread on the local level. If bloggers and independent newspapers try to write about and expose it, they end up in jail.

The Chinese government is subsidizing oil prices. Essentially, it is subsidizing and encouraging environment pollution (I thought the left was supposed to be pro environment ) Also, because it is cheaper for Chinese consumers to buy oil, they buy more of it, which artificially raises demand and worldwide prices. This is bad for China itself because it's over-stimulating the growth of their economy and they are gonna be in for a hard landing when a correction occurs. And it's bad for the world because it exaggerates prices everywhere else. Poor developing countries who can't afford to match such subsidies are especially hard hit.

Their government is communist but China has one of the biggest wealth gaps between rich and poor in the world What does that tell you?

Well, an encyclopedia can be written about what's wrong with China's government. In a way, it's not even fair to bitch about them, because everything is wrong with a communist government by definition.

[pilferk]

China

Where do I start?!?

Corruption is massive and widespread on the local level. If bloggers and independent newspapers try to write about and expose it, they end up in jail.

The Chinese government is subsidizing oil prices. Essentially, it is subsidizing and encouraging environment pollution (I thought the left was supposed to be pro environment ) Also, because it is cheaper for Chinese consumers to buy oil, they buy more of it, which artificially raises demand and worldwide prices. This is bad for China itself because it's over-stimulating the growth of their economy and they are gonna be in for a hard landing when a correction occurs. And it's bad for the world because it exaggerates prices everywhere else. Poor developing countries who can't afford to match such subsidies are especially hard hit.

Their government is communist but China has one of the biggest wealth gaps between rich and poor in the world What does that tell you?

Well, an encyclopedia can be written about what's wrong with China's government. In a way, it's not even fair to bitch about them, because everything is wrong with a communist government by definition.

Um, the Chinese are not leftist, in the same way we define it here in the US.  And they're certainly not liberals.? Communism has no concept of environmentalism.

[POPmetal]

China

Where do I start?!?

Corruption is massive and widespread on the local level. If bloggers and independent newspapers try to write about and expose it, they end up in jail.

The Chinese government is subsidizing oil prices. Essentially, it is subsidizing and encouraging environment pollution (I thought the left was supposed to be pro environment ) Also, because it is cheaper for Chinese consumers to buy oil, they buy more of it, which artificially raises demand and worldwide prices. This is bad for China itself because it's over-stimulating the growth of their economy and they are gonna be in for a hard landing when a correction occurs. And it's bad for the world because it exaggerates prices everywhere else. Poor developing countries who can't afford to match such subsidies are especially hard hit.

Their government is communist but China has one of the biggest wealth gaps between rich and poor in the world What does that tell you?

Well, an encyclopedia can be written about what's wrong with China's government. In a way, it's not even fair to bitch about them, because everything is wrong with a communist government by definition.

Um, the Chinese are not leftist, in the same way we define it here in the US.? And they're certainly not liberals.?

Keep building that Strawman. I never said they were liberals?

Communism has no concept of environmentalism.

Then why do all the self proclaimed Communists on college campuses bitch about how the corporations are ruining the environment and we need Communism to save it?

[pilferk]

Keep building that Strawman. I never said they were liberals?

And where did I say you did? Oh, that's right, I didn't.  I said they weren't leftists and then ADDED they weren't liberals.  The first part was a response to your assertion about the left caring about the environment.  The second a follow up, since liberals are also the most concerned with the environment. 

Try to follow, eh?

Communism has no concept of environmentalism.

Then why do all the self proclaimed Communists on college campuses bitch about how the corporations are ruining the environment and we need Communism to save it?

You'd have to ask them that question.  But real world Communism has no real concept, in practice, of environmentalism.  The USSR didn't, and Russian and China still don't.  Foreign words to them.

[POPmetal]

Keep building that Strawman. I never said they were liberals?

And where did I say you did? Oh, that's right, I didn't.? I said they weren't leftists and then ADDED they weren't liberals.? The first part was a response to your assertion about the left caring about the environment.? The second a follow up, since liberals are also the most concerned with the environment.?

Try to follow, eh?

Oh, I'm following. I just want to see how you like arguing with people who take what you say out of context and accuse you of saying things you didn't say.

[jarmo]

Funny, China are now "leftist"?

I thought you were from Eastern Europe and knew the difference between the Soviet Union, China and somebody who's on the left....

I guess anybody who isn't a republican is a communist... 



/jarmo

[POPmetal]

Funny, China are now "leftist"?

I thought you were from Eastern Europe and knew the difference between the Soviet Union, China and somebody who's on the left....

I guess anybody who isn't a republican is a communist...?



/jarmo

Strawman

[Rain]

you were the one who came up with the left thing about China ... If you can't make a diff?rence between communism and environmentalism it's hard for you to tell Jarmo he's using a strawman. 

[POPmetal]

you were the one who came up with the left thing about China ... If you can't make a diff?rence between communism and environmentalism it's hard for you to tell Jarmo he's using a strawman.?

here's another one. keep the strawmen coming. but you'll have to burn them yourself since I'm not falling for it

[Rain]

Jesus ....?

You were the one talking about China = communists not dealing w/ ecology ... than you were being asked since when communism deals w/ ecology ... it doesn't ...

I'm going to quote you it will be clearer :

The Chinese government is subsidizing oil prices. Essentially, it is subsidizing and encouraging environment pollution (I thought the left was supposed to be pro environment )

It's you here that are mixing up communism with the left and environmentalism. Not pilferk, not Jarmo.
You can twist it the way you want your statement is wrong ! Period !

[POPmetal]

Jesus ....?

You were the one talking about China = communists not dealing w/ ecology ... than you were being asked since when communism deals w/ ecology ... it doesn't ...

I'm going to quote you it will be clearer :

The Chinese government is subsidizing oil prices. Essentially, it is subsidizing and encouraging environment pollution (I thought the left was supposed to be pro environment )

It's you here that are mixing up communism with the left and environmentalism. Not pilferk, not Jarmo.
You can twist it the way you want your statement is wrong ! Period !

Just to clear up any confusion, I am not mixing up communism with the left and environmentalism.
The left is generally concerned with the environment. Communism is a form of extreme left-wing government.? In theory, a communist country should be very concerned with the environment. China is not. That's why I criticized them. I'm not criticizing the left in general and/or environmentalism in general.

[Will]

That's why I think this thread would be better if people would bitch about their own government.

[Rain]

We agree to a certain point - communism is indeed

is a form of extreme left-wing government

and some parties in the left are concerned about environmentalism but not all. So in theory environmentalism and communism don't mix !

But about the core of the question of course I guess we all agree to say China should care about environmentalism as should any other country. But if we were to find an excuse, they are trying to pace up w/ USA and Europe ... I know another country that didn't sign Kyoto agreements that is actually fully developped.

[Axls Locomotive]

Is this the UK Labour government showing their true colours...Stifling of free speech and no concern for their party members...unbelievable



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Headlines about an 82-year old Jewish escapee from the Nazis being manhandled out of Labour conference for daring to yell "nonsense" at the Foreign Secretary is probably not the way Tony Blair wanted to end this rally.

   
Walter Wolfgang

Heckler ejected

But, for many regular conference visitors, this was far from a surprise.

Ever-tightening security and a distinctly intolerant attitude towards "interruptions", as the prime minister called them, meant this was a headline waiting to happen.

There have been a few examples of it in the recent past.

Most notably, the prime minister was mid-speech last year when a hunting protester attempted a freestyle heckle only to be instantly grabbed by "burly bouncers" and helped to the exit.

No one who was there will forget the incongruity of the prime minister telling the man he was lucky to live in a free society where such things were allowed - just as he was being bundled out of the hall surrounded by stewards.

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read more here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4293502.stm