People seem to bash finck and his playing, and talk about gnr without a lead

[chineseblues]

and if you've never heard the Surf Movie soundtrack which RICHARD does EVERYTHING on, then  you have no right to criticize his ability as a guitar player, because even if you don't like the songs on it, it's obvious from it that's he's EXTREMELY TALENTED

especially check out the riffs on "my platonic puppy" and "hitting the ground"

I dont think the concerns expressed regarding Fortus are specific to his technical ability. Im sure he's an extremley competent player

I worry that he'll have the right 'feel' for GNR (yes I know Axl said he has great feel - he'd hardly say the contrary though would he?)
Am I referring to Nsync? Not specifically, although i'll admit this does nothing for my belief in him being a suitable candidate for GNR.
I dunno, the guy looks like he's acting the part rather than just being the part....

I could be wrong - I hope so

You most certainly are wrong. Richard is THE perfect fit for GNR. His writing ability is awesome and his playing is excellent. He is what GNR always should have had, being a great rythm guitarist. Guns was always lacking the great rythm guitar.

[jimmythegent]

Fortus had alot of trouble with the NR solo as well. He's a good guitarist but neither guy can play the old material well enough to satisfy the diehard fans of the old band. I believe it is not asking too much for these guys to get the old stuff right.

I agree entirely
They both made a dogs breakfast of many of those essential parts.

And thats not to say they have to play the parts exactly as Slash did - not at all.

Take the way Bucket approached them, didnt sound anything like Slash, but he made damn sure that what he played resembled it in part and sounded good.

Finck however, simply made a lot of mistakes. Be it bending notes too far to playing in the wrong mode/scale/key, to fumbling his fingering - that really isnt acceptable in my view.

But like I said before, Im sure he'll play his own material well and he should leave those Slash solos well alone

[rainX]

Fortus had alot of trouble with the NR solo as well. He's a good guitarist but neither guy can play the old material well enough to satisfy the diehard fans of the old band. I believe it is not asking too much for these guys to get the old stuff right.

I agree entirely
They both made a dogs breakfast of many of those essential parts.

And thats not to say they have to play the parts exactly as Slash did - not at all.

Take the way Bucket approached them, didnt sound anything like Slash, but he made damn sure that what he played resembled it in part and sounded good.

Finck however, simply made a lot of mistakes. Be it bending notes to far to playing in the wrong mode/scale/key, to fumbling his fingering - that really isnt acceptable in my view.

But like I said before, Im sure he'll play his own material well and he should leave those Slash solos well alone

So when you listen to for instance the SCOM solo from Pittsburgh, you don't think that kicks ass? Record a .wav file of slash doing it at tokyo 1992, and then one of robin from pitt, and go out and find ten people who aren't die hards like us and play it for them, and see how many of them think robin is slaughtering it

[jimmythegent]

and if you've never heard the Surf Movie soundtrack which RICHARD does EVERYTHING on, then? you have no right to criticize his ability as a guitar player, because even if you don't like the songs on it, it's obvious from it that's he's EXTREMELY TALENTED

especially check out the riffs on "my platonic puppy" and "hitting the ground"

I dont think the concerns expressed regarding Fortus are specific to his technical ability. Im sure he's an extremley competent player

I worry that he'll have the right 'feel' for GNR (yes I know Axl said he has great feel - he'd hardly say the contrary though would he?)
Am I referring to Nsync? Not specifically, although i'll admit this does nothing for my belief in him being a suitable candidate for GNR.
I dunno, the guy looks like he's acting the part rather than just being the part....

I could be wrong - I hope so

You most certainly are wrong. Richard is THE perfect fit for GNR. His writing ability is awesome and his playing is excellent. He is what GNR always should have had, being a great rythm guitarist. Guns was always lacking the great rythm guitar.

Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt there and assume you mean Guns was always lacking a great rhythm player post 91 right?
Because if you dont think Izzy was a great rhythm player I have considerable problems accepting youre a fan of GNR Im afraid.

Guns, like many genres of music including punk, jazz and countless others, was about more than just the music. Of course the music is the most important part, but the spirit of Guns was always an outlaw/outsider spirit. That is what i worry about with Richard..

As far as what rainX said about turning Izzys amps down - I imagine this was on the Illusions tour after Izzy had left that this was stated? There was alot of Izzy bashing going on then (not exclusively Axl either, alot was Slash and Duff too)

I always found that petty sounding and not a little bit bitter as well.
Izzy was a great rhythm player - his interplay with Slash during Appetite era is amongst some of the greatest guitar interplay youre likely to hear.

[jimmythegent]

Fortus had alot of trouble with the NR solo as well. He's a good guitarist but neither guy can play the old material well enough to satisfy the diehard fans of the old band. I believe it is not asking too much for these guys to get the old stuff right.

I agree entirely
They both made a dogs breakfast of many of those essential parts.

And thats not to say they have to play the parts exactly as Slash did - not at all.

Take the way Bucket approached them, didnt sound anything like Slash, but he made damn sure that what he played resembled it in part and sounded good.

Finck however, simply made a lot of mistakes. Be it bending notes to far to playing in the wrong mode/scale/key, to fumbling his fingering - that really isnt acceptable in my view.

But like I said before, Im sure he'll play his own material well and he should leave those Slash solos well alone

So when you listen to for instance the SCOM solo from Pittsburgh, you don't think that kicks ass? Record a .wav file of slash doing it at tokyo 1992, and then one of robin from pitt, and go out and find ten people who aren't die hards like us and play it for them, and see how many of them think robin is slaughtering it

Im sorry rainX, you are never going to convince me that Robin plays Slash's parts particularly well and youre certainly never going to convince me he plays them better?

That is amongst the most ludicrous suggestions ive ever heard

Lets look at studio then (where it really counts according to the starter of this thread)
Slashs studio solo of SCOM vs Fincks? Lets take that to 10 non diehards? I think thats probably a better comparison

[rainX]

where did i suggest he plays it better?

or are you just being a dick and putting words in my mouth?

[Falcon]

I dunno, the guy looks like he's acting the part rather than just being the part....

I could be wrong - I hope so

I agree, I've never "bought" Fortus, I found his stage presence in '02 a bit less than cool. ?

As for Finck, I've always dug him. ?His presence in the band brought me back to GNR, I like his loose approach and am looking forward to hearing if he's got the creative chops as well.

[rainX]

some of you really need to get over the "most dangerous band in the world" thing, and grow the fuck up.

stop living in the late 80s and early 90s and understand it's an entirely different world. all that fucking matters is the quality of the music, if you've been waiting this long for 5 guys to come out looking like shit and like they are high on drugs, why don't you just go to a VR show?

[jimmythegent]

where did i suggest he plays it better?

or are you just being a dick and putting words in my mouth?

hey, no need to get defensive? cause you end up sounding like a dick ok?
you suggested that I listen and compare to 2 interpretations of a solo by Slash and Finck and you implied by saying Finck 'slaughters' it or words to that effect, that Fincks is better.

Is that not a reasonable conclusion to come to? If not, ?I take the claim back, but I really cant see how it could be taken any other way at this point

[jimmythegent]

some of you really need to get over the "most dangerous band in the world" thing, and grow the fuck up.

stop living in the late 80s and early 90s and understand it's an entirely different world. all that fucking matters is the quality of the music, if you've been waiting this long for 5 guys to come out looking like shit and like they are high on drugs, why don't you just go to a VR show?

 

I think the whole thrust of what's been said over the last few pages got kind of lost on you huh?

[rainX]

where did i suggest he plays it better?

or are you just being a dick and putting words in my mouth?

hey, no need to get defensive? cause you end up sounding like a dick ok?
you suggested that I listen and compare to 2 interpretations of a solo by Slash and Finck and you implied by saying Finck 'slaughters' it or words to that effect, that Fincks is better.

Is that not a reasonable conclusion to come to? If not,  I take the claim back, but I really cant see how it could be taken any other way at this point

"slaughter" it would mean make it terrible to me. Meaning that when people heard it, they wouldn't think he was "slaughtering" or "killing" or "sucking at it"

[jimmythegent]

where did i suggest he plays it better?

or are you just being a dick and putting words in my mouth?

hey, no need to get defensive? cause you end up sounding like a dick ok?
you suggested that I listen and compare to 2 interpretations of a solo by Slash and Finck and you implied by saying Finck 'slaughters' it or words to that effect, that Fincks is better.

Is that not a reasonable conclusion to come to? If not,? I take the claim back, but I really cant see how it could be taken any other way at this point

"slaughter" it would mean make it terrible to me. Meaning that when people heard it, they wouldn't think he was "slaughtering" or "killing" or "sucking at it"

fair enough then. I accept that

 

[killingvector]

Fortus had alot of trouble with the NR solo as well. He's a good guitarist but neither guy can play the old material well enough to satisfy the diehard fans of the old band. I believe it is not asking too much for these guys to get the old stuff right.

I'm a fan who never needs to hear the old songs live again. So I really could care less whether or not he learns how to play the songs note by note or plays them as he interprets them listening to them off the albums. You sit there and analyze every note of the 2002 shows - if you go back and do the same thing to Slash, you'll see him fuck up a hell of a lot. And no one ever brings up Izzy in this - remember the stories about them having to turn his amps down cuz he was so fucked up he sucked hardcore? At least Richard is sober enough to get his amps left on.

Unfotunately Axl is selling this as the new Guns N Roses; as a result, they will be asked to play the old songs, and play them well. Slash did have his share of bad shows, but he also was involved in some of the most heroic performances ever witness. In addition, he is the author of some truly incredible licks and solos. Some of the best ever recorded. Big shoes to fill.

Bucket was a great contributor to the new band because he clearly demonstrated the ability to emulate the sound of his predecessor but also, in mnay cases, take it a step futher.  While in GnR, Finck has been very uneven in the lead; sometimes he has tremendous energy and precision; other times he bends the hell of his strings to the point where the song has sped past his solo without the solo. I just don't care for his attitude regarding this old material, especially since there is such division in the community as to whether this band should even exist.

[Jim Bob]

I just don't care for his attitude regarding this old material, especially since there is such division in the community as to whether this band should even exist.

those who feel it shouldn't exist, have that right.. but then it should not matter.    If you feel it shouldn't exist, then leave it alone and go listen to velvet revolver or whatever the fuck you get into these days.
 
anyways, Finck is an awesome guitarist.  I was more impressed with him then I was with buckethead when I saw the band in Pittsburgh on Nov 22, 2002.   He did not miss a note that night.  The best response he got from the crowd was actually from SCOM.  I was so skeptical of going to a GNR show at the time with Axl and a different band, but that night really changed my mind.  I went home and put on the tokyo illusions dvd that night and me and my buddy just looked at each other when they started playin Mr. Brownstone and we were like, "yea.. what we just saw a few hours ago was so much better' 

And to whoever said Fortus doesn't fit in the band obviously hasn't seen the band or seen Fortus play.  In fact, if anyone from this lineup would fit in the old band, it would be him.  So i would figure he would appeal to a lot of the older fans.   He is a great rhythm guitarist, and he's a great lead guitarist.   Say what you want about who he may have recorded for.. he was a session musican and he needs to eat just like the rest of us.   You can't knock him for that.. and Axl saw something in him and brought him on.. and Axl isn't going to bring just any shmuck off the street into Guns N' Fuckin Roses.

If i wanted to go see Slash, I'd go see Velvet Revolver.   If you are a fan of GNR today, you would have accepted that by now, he's been out of the band for almost 10 years now     and if someone isn't a fan of it, i dont really understand why they would be on a gnr board.

[killingvector]

I just don't care for his attitude regarding this old material, especially since there is such division in the community as to whether this band should even exist.

those who feel it shouldn't exist, have that right.. but then it should not matter.    If you feel it shouldn't exist, then leave it alone and go listen to velvet revolver or whatever the fuck you get into these days.
 
anyways, Finck is an awesome guitarist.  I was more impressed with him then I was with buckethead when I saw the band in Pittsburgh on Nov 22, 2002.   He did not miss a note that night.  The best response he got from the crowd was actually from SCOM.  I was so skeptical of going to a GNR show at the time with Axl and a different band, but that night really changed my mind.  I went home and put on the tokyo illusions dvd that night and me and my buddy just looked at each other when they started playin Mr. Brownstone and we were like, "yea.. what we just saw a few hours ago was so much better' 

And to whoever said Fortus doesn't fit in the band obviously hasn't seen the band or seen Fortus play.  In fact, if anyone from this lineup would fit in the old band, it would be him.  So i would figure he would appeal to a lot of the older fans.   He is a great rhythm guitarist, and he's a great lead guitarist.   Say what you want about who he may have recorded for.. he was a session musican and he needs to eat just like the rest of us.   You can't knock him for that.. and Axl saw something in him and brought him on.. and Axl isn't going to bring just any shmuck off the street into Guns N' Fuckin Roses.

If i wanted to go see Slash, I'd go see Velvet Revolver.   If you are a fan of GNR today, you would have accepted that by now, he's been out of the band for almost 10 years now     and if someone isn't a fan of it, i dont really understand why they would be on a gnr board.

I think you are telling the wrong person to turn on the VR record. I hear what you are saying but since this band is called GnR, they should play the old songs much better than I heard.

[Jim Bob]

I guess its all a matter of opinion.  I think they play it perfectly fine.. and honestly, songs like Rocket Queen, Mr brownstone, Nightrain, Live and let Die... those songs all sound better.   

[Neemo]

anyone who think robin is "sloppy"

go listen to the nin bootlegs, you call that sloppy? he plays the shit to a T

Cuz the NIN guitar parts are soooooo complicated. 

Like that song hurt, man, you have to be some kinda crazy guitarist to pull that one off 

[DeN]

who cares if the guitar parts are complicated to play ?

i don't need Guns N'Malmsteen.

if you don't like the new musicians in Guns N'Roses, go buy the new bon jovi's LP and some vintage cowboy boots.

[Falcon]

and Axl isn't going to bring just any shmuck off the street into Guns N' Fuckin Roses.

Uh, he brought Paul Huge in...

[Neemo]

who cares if the guitar parts are complicated to play ?

i don't need Guns N'Malmsteen.

if you don't like the new musicians in Guns N'Roses, go buy the new bon jovi's LP and some vintage cowboy boots.

Holy dude, chill

I'm just saying playing NIN tunes is alot easier than playing GnR tunes, hence NIN is easier to pull off live, [if you fuck up Hurt you should take up a new career, ya know what i mean? (prolly not)], and the only musician i have issues with in Nu-GnR is Robin. and the only issues with him are is his guitar skills are average at best. And I'll buy the album when it's released whether Robin, Bucket, or fucking Kenny G are playing on the fucking thing. so go to hell

And besides if I were to buy an album right now, I'd prolly go for Def Leppard - Rock of Ages rather than Bon Jovi's new album