question .If the name belong to the ex gunners

[Axl4Prez2004]

   Mike, I think I can answer this question.  Yes, if the name belonged to Slash/Duff/Matt/etc., they would be Guns N' Roses.  Younggunner is right, VR is what GNR would be without Axl, in my eyes not very good.  Like it or not, Axl was/is the enigmatic force that made/makes GNR what it is/isn't.  Wow, that's grammatically ironic, my use of the symbol "slash."   
   Sit back and enjoy the ride...    

[St.heathen]

Mike the thing you keep failing to grasp is that Axl is the lead singer. He attracted most of the attention back of the day. Of course Slash and company amde great music and deserve just as much credit. But Axl is more than just the music. He brings something else to the table. That is why there are passionate people here. On both sides of the fence. Axl is the talk. Whether its good or bad. Whethe ryou liek Slash or not. People defend Axl, people choose to rip into Axl. No1 here chooses to rip into Slash or defend him. Its more your with Axl or against.

As for the thread. Whether Axl was on the outside lookin in it would really matter. Just look at Vr. Who cares what its called. Vr is what GNr would have been without Axl. SOme descent stuff but nothing that puts it over the top. Thats whta Axl brings. Hes the intangible you need. As a poster has said...GNr is much more than a name to Axl. He was teh captain when it took off so he feels he should control the ship. He once said hes GNrs biggest fan.

If Axls intention were to ruin the gnr name or outdue the old band he would have released multiple albums by now. The guy just waits and waits. Until hes ready and feels that the material will represent the GNR? name well.

 It could be argued that as much as Axl brought to the table he also brought alot of chaos. ?Of course that's probably why we love him/his work. ?But let's not forget a bit of history. ?His behaviour caused alot of negativity towards the band. ?Of course to the majority of them you could say who cares? ?But for GNR to end up as a cliche - band get's too big for it's boots - burns out - story. ? ? There are not many people that i have heard from who have worked or been around the band that have much good to say about Axl. ? ? You could say fuck them but respect is a valuable thing.

It could be argued that The old members were needed to keep that Illusions Tour going. ?I'm sure i don't need to bring to peoples attention to his approach to his fans and gigs. ?Ok he decides where he shows up and at what time.... but when you have 80,000+ people who have come to worship you, but are now - ?4 hours later, really pissed off and on verge of riots. ?And he strolls in and his reason is he was taking a shower. ?It's pure hilarious to us now lol. ?But to go through that kind of thing every night as Slash ect did, not knowing if the guy would even show - it's a crazy way to do things. ?You could say well it is rock n' roll and all that. And yeah fine, but don't try and paint it all as Black and White as some would like to believe.

I seem to see more open mindedness from people who really like VR - towards Axl. And a genuine hope that his work kicks ass. ?More so than the other way around. ?Which is curious. ?Almost like they have been arguing the same points for so long they're in automatic lol. I personally haven't heard anything from nu-GN'R'S material that could not have been off Illusions. Madagascar could sit easily next to Coma for example. ? ? Oh My God which I know is Navarro on the solo but that sounds like a Slash?sound.   

Back to topic, I think they should all grow up, kiss and make up before they are too bloody old. ?Even if they don't get back together, life is too short for all that shit. ?And they are on the wrong side of 40, i hope i have learnt alot more by that age.

[Irish gunner II]

Well the fact is the name belongs to axl as far as i know. And GnR was made famous by Axl,Slash duff and Izzy and steven. Someone said that VR is guns without Axl but GNR now is   what its like without the other members,going nowhere.   

[ppbebe]

No. Jimmy Page was the frontman. Mr plant wasn't.

I'm interested to know why you said this, although maybe outside of this thread!

I say it because Jimmy Page was the man who led the band.

I posted the following ages ago and I post it again thinking it might make some connection with the topic.

Once upon a time there was a British band called The Yardbirds. The band was successful but went through numerous member changes. In Late '68 when the last founding man quitted, the only man remained in the band other than a manager was The fourth guitarist who originally had joined the band as a relief of the bass. He was formerly an acknowledged studio musician and he called his close session mate to join the band and swiftly they found a vocalist and a drummer. The reassembled Yardbirds took over the contract and toured until a founding member staked his claim on the band name. The guitarist and the manager didn't have the right that they were compelled to change the name. Then under a new band name they went ahead with a big tour in US and then released their self titled debut album in '69. Late in the same year their self titled second album made No. 1 in UK n US.   
The rest is history?
History is made every minute.

While Mack's point being Axl's or Merck's serious attitude toward music bears comparison with that of Zeppelin, I suggested the forth guitarist of The Yard birds was the heart, soul and passion of the band in question, whatever the name was. It's an example of that The sound mind gets the sound body. He produced all of their albums. Check out credits on the records.

Still there are old school Yardbirds fans grunting about Jimmy Page, while the majority hasn't heard of a song off the band in which Zep had its origin. I was the latter until quite recently and am never the former obviously.

Had the forth guitarist of The Yardbirds owned the name, we would be calling The band known as Led Zeppelin the Yardbirds.

[Sterlingdog]

Personally I think it's irrelevant how the band breaks up.? If it isn't the original guys who made the band what it was, then it shouldn't be called GNR.? It doesn't matter if it's Axl Rose, or if it's Slash and Duff, or hell, if it's Izzy and Steven.

All the originals of any disbanded group should have enough respect for the fans not to tarnish the band's legacy by assuming control of the name without the others.

I'm trying to follow the logic here.  It has to be the original members to be considered GNR?  Does that mean when Steven left and Matt took over, it wasn't really GNR?  Or when Izzy left, then was it no longer GNR?  How many original members does the band have to retain for it to really be GNR?

[Shoco]

i think its the fact that guns disapeared with the line up of, axl, slash, duff and matt and maybe dizzy

then reapeard with a complete new line up 8 years later with a brand new line up, i think that the cause of the problem

loads of bands replaced members and kept goin and there was no fuss, but they replaced members one by one and didnt dissapear and kept doin gigs and releasing stuff, guns didnt do that, if they did then we mitent have this problem

[Pandora]

I wouldn't mind.

I wouldn't care. I wouldn't care about that GN'R. I'd be fine with the old GN'R songs.

I wouldn't be at a GN'R board but at a board about Axl's new band whatever the name might be.

My feelings exactly. I would probably follow that "other" version of Guns N' Roses, but from afar, kind of. Axl has always been the main attraction for me.

[tomass74]

Axl was in guns n roses before slash and duff even joined. Its that simple.

Yeah and the crap sounded like Hollywood Rose...

[tomass74]

They definately couldn't go on as Guns N Roses without Axl...... It isn't often a band can get away with swapping out lead singers unless you are AC/DC or Van Halen.....

As for the musicians I guess it deoends on a band... I mean Guns were a true band and the 5 of them kicked ass... Once they added Dizzy and Izzy and Steven were gone it still wasn't the same... The Slash/Izzy combo was the the backbone of Gn'R's sound and it will never be the same without them...

I think Axl should put the name to rest and I would expect the others guys to do the same if they had the name and Axl was gone..

Also to whoever that was, Slash may not be Jimmy Page but he is just as important to Guns as Page was to Zeppelin..

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Axl was in guns n roses before slash and duff even joined. Its that simple.

Yeah and the crap sounded like Hollywood Rose...

And of slash and duff had the name the crap that is called snake pit, believe in me and contraband would have been the last 3 gnr albums.

[jameslofton29]

Cool thread, Mike. Let's go back in time and visit an alternate GNR timeline. Illusions is released September 17, 1991. Lets say GNR get into a huge fight, and in October Axl is fired. If memory serves me correct, this would be before Izzy left and they had signed over the name to Axl. This would have been huge news, and Illusions would have started selling again like they did the first week of release. With Axl gone, Izzy wouldn't have left, at least not for awhile. Axl would have probably went into his cave, while GNR looks for a new singer. All videos, promotion, etc. for Illusions would stop. GNR would have found a new unknown singer to take Axl's place, and would quickly go to work on a new album. Dizzy would be fired also, and GNR would go back to doing AFD style material. Is this version of GNR really GNR? Yes it is. Would they be as successful without Axl? Probably not, especially in the face of grunge. Could they have been relevant to the music scene? Yes. Would they have continued making albums, even up to the present day? Definitely. Would Axl have continued his career without the GNR name and doing things solo? Well, considering that he's done nothing substantial using the GNR name, its safe to say he wouldn't have done anything solo either. Either way you look at it, Axl is M.I.A. with or without the GNR name, while everyone else associated with GNR keeps contributing to the world of music.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

If Slash and Duff fired Axl before the release of the UYIs then Gnr would not have been as huge as they were in the 90s. Also the UYIs were have sucked with out Axls songs.

[jameslofton29]

Read it again, Dave. The firing would take place after the Illusions release.

[Sterlingdog]

Cool thread, Mike. Let's go back in time and visit an alternate GNR timeline. Illusions is released September 17, 1991. Lets say GNR get into a huge fight, and in October Axl is fired. If memory serves me correct, this would be before Izzy left and they had signed over the name to Axl. This would have been huge news, and Illusions would have started selling again like they did the first week of release. With Axl gone, Izzy wouldn't have left, at least not for awhile. Axl would have probably went into his cave, while GNR looks for a new singer. All videos, promotion, etc. for Illusions would stop. GNR would have found a new unknown singer to take Axl's place, and would quickly go to work on a new album. Dizzy would be fired also, and GNR would go back to doing AFD style material. Is this version of GNR really GNR? Yes it is. Would they be as successful without Axl? Probably not, especially in the face of grunge. Could they have been relevant to the music scene? Yes. Would they have continued making albums, even up to the present day? Definitely. Would Axl have continued his career without the GNR name and doing things solo? Well, considering that he's done nothing substantial using the GNR name, its safe to say he wouldn't have done anything solo either. Either way you look at it, Axl is M.I.A. with or without the GNR name, while everyone else associated with GNR keeps contributing to the world of music.

So if I'm understanding you, you are saying they needed Axl and his songs to be the huge success that they were.  But to continue existing, Axl would have to leave.  Then the music would have continued, but in some less successful, mediocre way?  So in this scenario, GNR exists but becomes some nostalgic 80's band that fades away like the rest?  Like Skid Row, Motley Crue, or Warrant?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Read it again, Dave. The firing would take place after the Illusions release.

Well Axls songs would stay  but the albums after UYI would still be the crappy snake pit albums, believe in me and contraband.

[jameslofton29]

Dave, I strongly disagree. The primary songwriters of the albums you mentioned is Duff, Eric Dover, and Weiland. In this alternate version of GNR, Izzy would have been the main songwriter. Continuing GNR's success, but to a lesser extent.

[damnthehaters]

I don't care what the band is called.  I will always follow Axl because he is the most contraversial, raw, unpredictable, and talented one out of the bunch.   

[Continental Drift]

Perhaps it's not fair... but I cannot fathom a band called "Guns N' Roses" without W. Axl Rose as the lead singer.

Admittedly, GN'R is a little "akward" these days without Slash and Duff, but it is not unbearable or unfathomable (IMHO).

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Perhaps it's not fair... but I cannot fathom a band called "Guns N' Roses" without W. Axl Rose as the lead singer.

Admittedly, GN'R is a little "akward" these days without Slash and Duff, but it is not unbearable or unfathomable (IMHO).

They would just change the name to guns without rose.

[disease51883]

"Guns N' Roseless".

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Sorry...