For the people wondering about the quality of the songs on CD

[dave-gnfnr2k]

IRS blows away any rocker that VR did.  VR could only dream of making a song as great or as catchy as IRS and IRS that we heard was just a demo.  I think slash forgot how to make good songs, its too bad he does not have Axl to pull the best out of him, its obvious that Scott cant do that and lets slash just have ass his songs like slash always wanted to do but Axl would never let him.

[Axl4Prez2004]

IRS blows away any rocker that VR did.? VR could only dream of making a song as great or as catchy as IRS and IRS that we heard was just a demo.

Dave is absolutely right on the mark here, IRS kicks ass.  However, the "Slash half-assing" comment, I can't go along with that.  Yes, Axl and Slash had great chemistry...maybe Scott and Slash just need some time to get there, because obviously they don't have it yet.  I don't think Slash, and definitely not Axl, would half-ass his work.    

[dave-gnfnr2k]

IRS blows away any rocker that VR did.? VR could only dream of making a song as great or as catchy as IRS and IRS that we heard was just a demo.

Dave is absolutely right on the mark here, IRS kicks ass.? However, the "Slash half-assing" comment, I can't go along with that.? Yes, Axl and Slash had great chemistry...maybe Scott and Slash just need some time to get there, because obviously they don't have it yet.? I don't think Slash, and definitely not Axl, would half-ass his work.? ??

Slash has not done anything as memorable in VR as he did with gnr. That is what I was saying. And I dont see how I am wrong. It was sad that slash even had to rip off gnr riffs and put them in VR songs. Axl didnt take anything from old gnr and make it into the new gnr. He pretty much reinvented the band. The blues is UYI-ish but he still didnt rip off old lyrics or old riffs like slash did with Vr.

[jimmythegent]

IRS blows away any rocker that VR did.? VR could only dream of making a song as great or as catchy as IRS and IRS that we heard was just a demo.

Dave is absolutely right on the mark here, IRS kicks ass.? However, the "Slash half-assing" comment, I can't go along with that.? Yes, Axl and Slash had great chemistry...maybe Scott and Slash just need some time to get there, because obviously they don't have it yet.? I don't think Slash, and definitely not Axl, would half-ass his work.? ??

Slash has not done anything as memorable in VR as he did with gnr. That is what I was saying. And I dont see how I am wrong. It was sad that slash even had to rip off gnr riffs and put them in VR songs. Axl didnt take anything from old gnr and make it into the new gnr. He pretty much reinvented the band. The blues is UYI-ish but he still didnt rip off old lyrics or old riffs like slash did with Vr.

Oh yeah, Axls really moved on. Apart from keeping the name GNR and touring in 2002 playing a majority of songs that the old band wrote, he's right on the cutting edge alright.

You are so full of it Dave. These last couple of posts of yours, even by your standards are pitiful.

IRS sounds like an Appetite rocker, so how is this any different from Contraband having some similar sounds? Slash was the guitarist in GNR, of course some of his riffs are going to sound similar. What you fail to recognise is that Slash wrote those GNR riffs, not Axl. Those overwraught epics you hold so dear (NR, Estranged etc..) wouldnt be half the songs  they are without Slashs soaring, aching solos.

All you can hark back to is the brilliance of Madagascar, The Blues etc..
Ive said it before and I'll say it again, at this point in time, Axls new material post 93 has been a chequered affair at best.
The Blues sounds like it could be a classic (although hardly a progession which nullifies your argument), Madagascar is an overwrought and frankly mediocre song that sounds neither here nor there, CD sounds promising as does IRS (although again, no huge leaps really) while OMG sounds half baked and a mess basically while the rest such as Rhiad and Silkworms are an absolute disgrace.

It's particularly hilarious how you always go on about Axl bringing the best from Slash etc..
How about we reverse this and suggest that Slash and Izzy got the best from Axl. Do the math, when Axl was coupled with Slash and Izzy, he was in the most popular rock band on the planet with a slew of the most powerful rock songs that remain to this day. Without them, what? A couple of reasonable songs, 1 standout and a bunch of duds in 11 years?

Sometimes I wonder if your posts are a joke, that perhaps you are playing the devils advocate and just like to stir things up and infact you really are a GNR fan in diguise as an Axl zealot.

Either way, there are some issues that require urgent attention Dave.

[Buddha_Master]

IRS blows away any rocker that VR did.? VR could only dream of making a song as great or as catchy as IRS and IRS that we heard was just a demo.? I think slash forgot how to make good songs, its too bad he does not have Axl to pull the best out of him, its obvious that Scott cant do that and lets slash just have ass his songs like slash always wanted to do but Axl would never let him.

I feel the need again to put this IRS issue in perspective. IRS isn't just better then anything VR ever did. Its better then any Rock song in over 15 years. Yea that even includes the UYI's. You can tell me otherwise...


...but you'd be wrong.

[jimmythegent]

IRS blows away any rocker that VR did.? VR could only dream of making a song as great or as catchy as IRS and IRS that we heard was just a demo.? I think slash forgot how to make good songs, its too bad he does not have Axl to pull the best out of him, its obvious that Scott cant do that and lets slash just have ass his songs like slash always wanted to do but Axl would never let him.

I feel the need again to put this IRS issue in perspective. IRS isn't just better then anything VR ever did. Its better then any Rock song in over 15 years. Yea that even includes the UYI's. You can tell me otherwise...


...but you'd be wrong.

haha, youre such a joker dude

umm. I can name countless rockers that are better than IRS in the last 15 years, there are too many to list here, but hey, everyones entitled to an opinion

dont get me wrong, I think IRS could be an awesome rocker, but lets get some perspective here

[RnT]

I feel the need again to put this IRS issue in perspective. IRS isn't just better then anything VR ever did. Its better then any Rock song in over 15 years. Yea that even includes the UYI's. You can tell me otherwise...

oh.... my .... fucking ... GOD !

[Buddha_Master]

Alright crackers...

So what are they? From your POV, what Rock tracks are as fucking cool as IRS? What I said might seem bold to you, buts its real.

...can't wait to hear what you funboys think is cooler then the demo of IRS.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

IRS blows away any rocker that VR did.? VR could only dream of making a song as great or as catchy as IRS and IRS that we heard was just a demo.

Dave is absolutely right on the mark here, IRS kicks ass.? However, the "Slash half-assing" comment, I can't go along with that.? Yes, Axl and Slash had great chemistry...maybe Scott and Slash just need some time to get there, because obviously they don't have it yet.? I don't think Slash, and definitely not Axl, would half-ass his work.? ??

Slash has not done anything as memorable in VR as he did with gnr. That is what I was saying. And I dont see how I am wrong. It was sad that slash even had to rip off gnr riffs and put them in VR songs. Axl didnt take anything from old gnr and make it into the new gnr. He pretty much reinvented the band. The blues is UYI-ish but he still didnt rip off old lyrics or old riffs like slash did with Vr.

Oh yeah, Axls really moved on. Apart from keeping the name GNR and touring in 2002 playing a majority of songs that the old band wrote, he's right on the cutting edge alright.

You are so full of it Dave. These last couple of posts of yours, even by your standards are pitiful.

IRS sounds like an Appetite rocker, so how is this any different from Contraband having some similar sounds? Slash was the guitarist in GNR, of course some of his riffs are going to sound similar. What you fail to recognise is that Slash wrote those GNR riffs, not Axl. Those overwraught epics you hold so dear (NR, Estranged etc..) wouldnt be half the songs? they are without Slashs soaring, aching solos.

All you can hark back to is the brilliance of Madagascar, The Blues etc..
Ive said it before and I'll say it again, at this point in time, Axls new material post 93 has been a chequered affair at best.
The Blues sounds like it could be a classic (although hardly a progession which nullifies your argument), Madagascar is an overwrought and frankly mediocre song that sounds neither here nor there, CD sounds promising as does IRS (although again, no huge leaps really) while OMG sounds half baked and a mess basically while the rest such as Rhiad and Silkworms are an absolute disgrace.

It's particularly hilarious how you always go on about Axl bringing the best from Slash etc..
How about we reverse this and suggest that Slash and Izzy got the best from Axl. Do the math, when Axl was coupled with Slash and Izzy, he was in the most popular rock band on the planet with a slew of the most powerful rock songs that remain to this day. Without them, what? A couple of reasonable songs, 1 standout and a bunch of duds in 11 years?

Sometimes I wonder if your posts are a joke, that perhaps you are playing the devils advocate and just like to stir things up and infact you really are a GNR fan in diguise as an Axl zealot.

Either way, there are some issues that require urgent attention Dave.

Jimmy if anyone is pitiful its you. I did not want it to come to this but it did so here goes.

#1 About Axl not moving here. First off, he has moved on, yes he kept the name but he was in gnr before slash and duff, and he was the only orginal member to not quit the band. Also, why wouldnt he play the old songs, the fans want to hear them when they go to a guns n roses show, so he gave us what we wanted.  Axl even said the reason for the tour was to blow off some steam since they were in the studio for so long.  So how didnt axl move on again?

#2 IRS sounds NOTHING like anything off of AFD and NOTHING like contraband. What songs on either of those albums does IRS sound like?

#3 Slash blatenered sampled the SCOM riff and a few other classic gnr riffs and put them on contraband, and why? Because he could not come up with anything fresh, new and good. So he had to do  retread of the stuff he wrote before. That is pathetic.

#4 About slash and izzy getting the best of Axl, that is true in part but Axl doesnt need them like they need axl. Slash and duff need axl more than they need him and  contraband proves that.  Axl still works his butt off and writes amazing lyrics while Slash cant write anything close to what he did in GNR because just plays something and think its fine even tho it can be better. The blues, IRS and madagascar are all up there with some of the best songs ever for gnr, while VR songs are not even close.   As for nov rain and estranged not  being as good without slashs riffs, that is just not true. If they were just piano based they would still be amazing. Much like an Elton John or Billy Joel song.

#5 Your comments about the blues, irs and madagascar and what you say about contraband is just laughable. But since its your opinion to each his own, but like I said madagascar is one of the best gnr songs ever written.

#6 As for my posts being jokes. People like you crack me up. You can hail how amazing the medorice contraband album is yet when someone thinks that a new gnr song is amazing you just cant understand it.  When its all said and done CD will be released something people like you, booker, SIG and the other nay sayers are hoping never comes because its going to prove that Axl was the genious in guns n roses and prove that Slash just does not have it anymore. So have your fun now while it lasts, the true fans that have stood by guns n roses through think and thin will have the last laugh.

#7 I just wonder what will happen if God forbid  CD is better than AFD. I know people like you and the ususal suspects would never admit, but if that day ever comes, I bet most of you would never show your face on the board again.

I am too tired and am not doing to bother spell checking this, so dont bother talking shit about my spelling since I am sure  you will since you just got owned.

[-Jack-]

Going back to the original post... I have to agree with the many people who said "Your logic is flawed Dave"

It just doesn't make sense.. If the old GN'R waited 6 years to make their first album, then the freaking UYI album songs wouldnt be there! You think November Rain woulda came out on GN'R's first record!? If GN'R spent 6 years.. then all the songs would sound roughly like Appetite. Cuz thats what their mindset was. Its doubtful that a bunch of guys from the streets,  living in poverty would create NR, Estranged, or Coma.

If the new GN'R put out Chinese Democracy in 2002 the songs they'd create in 2004 would be WAYYY different then the songs they created in 2004 with out Chinese Democracy. Do you understand?

Its hard to explain.. but what your saying doesnt make sense. Just try and read what i wrote throughly.

   -jack

[jimmythegent]

"I am too tired and am not doing to bother spell checking this, so dont bother talking shit about my spelling since I am sure? you will since you just got owned."

This part cracked me up the most? Dave, I dont need to be so petty as to pick on your spelling - theres a wealth of factual inaccuaracies, misquotes, vague assertions, and downright lies I can focus on.

"So how didnt axl move on again?"

Um, how about in 12 years not releasing an album hes promised his fans years ago, clinging on to the GNR name, failed tours, little to no communication with fans, slandering his former colleagues in the press etc.. etc.. . But no, its Slash and Duff with their multi platinum new band, grammy wins, hit singles, and sold out tours, not to mention wives and families, that havent moved on.

#2 IRS sounds NOTHING like anything off of AFD and NOTHING like contraband. What songs on either of those albums does IRS sound like?

Thats my opinion that it sounds like something off AFD Dave - I might add that several other people here have thought the same thing. Nowhere have I compared it to anything on Contraband Dave, nice try though. How about you describe to me what it sounds like? Id be interested to hear why it's so groundbreaking and unique.


3 Slash blatenered sampled the SCOM riff and a few other classic gnr riffs and put them on contraband, and why?

Again, like I said in my last post, Slash wrote those riffs and no one else. They are as much his signature as Axls raspy scream. So by that logic if Axl has any raspy screams on CD, he is rehashing old ideas? Haha - lets see how you can justify that one Dave??

Axl still works his butt off

haha this one really takes the cake. Yeah, no album in 12 years and failed tours /riots. Yeah Axls dilligance has really benefited his fans right?

As for nov rain and estranged not? being as good without slashs riffs, that is just not true. If they were just piano based they would still be amazing. Much like an Elton John or Billy Joel song.

I for one, will listen to Elton John and Billy Joel if I want to hear that type of music, not GNR. Slash took those songs somewhere else, otherwise they would have been just good piano ballads, not the classic songs they are.

5 Your comments about the blues, irs and madagascar and what you say about contraband is just laughable.

People like you crack me up. You can hail how amazing the medorice contraband album

Again, where I have I stated that contraband is a brilliant album? Quote me, I never have. More bullshit Dave. You saying this is missing the point entirely.

have your fun now while it lasts, the true fans that have stood by guns n roses through think and thin will have the last laugh.

Rubbish. I want CD to be brilliant and a success. You can look over several posts where Ive stated as much. The difference is Im not prepared to rewrite GNR history by claiming that Axl was solely responsible for their success/brilliance. Thats the difference between a GNR fan and a blind Axl zealot. A true fan will also call Axl out when he treats his fans like shit.

#7 I just wonder what will happen if God forbid? CD is better than AFD. I know people like you and the ususal suspects would never admit, but if that day ever comes, I bet most of you would never show your face on the board again.

If its an amazing album Ill be more than happy to say so and share ideas with other fans. People like you will never realise that AFD was a moment in time that can never be repeated, no matter how good CD is. a) its an entirely different band and b) a different time and circumstance. Comparing the two will be futile and is the kind of puerile comparison that Ive come to expect of you Dave.

So now I await you to resort to personal attacks, name calling and childish insults.
the response of someone who really got owned?

[jimmythegent]

Alright crackers...

So what are they? From your POV, what Rock tracks are as fucking cool as IRS? What I said might seem bold to you, buts its real.

...can't wait to hear what you funboys think is cooler then the demo of IRS.

umm, most of Soubndgardens Superunknown and Badmotorfinger
several tracks of Angel Dust by Faith no More
several Janes Addiction tracks
several off Green Days latest
several off Elephant by White Stripes
Nirvana?
AIC?
Pearl Jam?

Take your pick dude, theres too many to get into

[ClintroN]

your the fuckin' man

Awsome thinkin'

spot on dude, but SAUL is right ya know, they r' totally different bands, the origenal would have OD and died by the time Chi-Dem came out.   


CHINESE FUCKIN' DEMOCRACY

[Buddha_Master]

Alright crackers...

So what are they? From your POV, what Rock tracks are as fucking cool as IRS? What I said might seem bold to you, buts its real.

...can't wait to hear what you funboys think is cooler then the demo of IRS.

umm, most of Soubndgardens Superunknown and Badmotorfinger
several tracks of Angel Dust by Faith no More
several Janes Addiction tracks
several off Green Days latest
several off Elephant by White Stripes
Nirvana?
AIC?
Pearl Jam?

Take your pick dude, theres too many to get into

You know dude, I don't want to come off as slagging off on some of these bands. With the exception of Soundgarden and JA, IRS is the least paint by numbers of any on this little safe tickle me Elmo list of yours. Beyond that, IRS is the sum of its parts, and has a freshness to it, that is undeniable. It kicks your ass, in a very deliberate and focused way. Its got this Axl swagger, I thought was long gone. It has been way too long since a Rock track kicks you in the face but has new innovations in its structure that everytime you listen to it, you can pick up on something new.

And dude, depending on your state of mind, this shit can effect you moreso then any "rocker" has any right to.

Listen man, I am not into faith no more, and I never was. Same with Green Day. But all the others I am more then familiar with. I can't think of any that are even remotely comparable. And this is all based off a fucking demo which further cements its greatness.

IRS is that fucking crazy thing where (baring any final production misteps) is the capturing the magic in a bottle variety. I know you think I am being outrageous. But one day, I promise you, you will be listening to it when all the shit is right around you, and you will understand.

[mikegiuliana]

IRS blows away any rocker that VR did.? VR could only dream of making a song as great or as catchy as IRS and IRS that we heard was just a demo.

Dave is absolutely right on the mark here, IRS kicks ass.? However, the "Slash half-assing" comment, I can't go along with that.? Yes, Axl and Slash had great chemistry...maybe Scott and Slash just need some time to get there, because obviously they don't have it yet.? I don't think Slash, and definitely not Axl, would half-ass his work.? ??

Slash has not done anything as memorable in VR as he did with gnr. That is what I was saying. And I dont see how I am wrong. It was sad that slash even had to rip off gnr riffs and put them in VR songs. Axl didnt take anything from old gnr and make it into the new gnr. He pretty much reinvented the band. The blues is UYI-ish but he still didnt rip off old lyrics or old riffs like slash did with Vr.

Why does something have to be frozen in tine aka memorable to be something good.. I really like contraband and I think there are some really good songs on the album..  Just because it won't be remembered for the next 25 years doesn't make something crap. A lot of artists after moving on from the band that made them a world sucess still do good music but they are no longer on that mainstream wave that made anything they did memorable so nothing seems memorable..

I loved 90 percent of the old gnr tunes, but nothing newer to me is anything memorable.. Memorable can be viewed in so many different ways.. Something memorable to us may not be memorable to the rock world..

I'm sure some would say the stuff greenday is releasing now is " memorable" yet I think it's just the same crap and tone he has been doing for years...
As for irs being better then anything vr did, that is strictly opinion.. There's nothing to validate that statemement.. You can say slash needs axl or he hasn't done anything "memorable" (never knew all music must be memorable) but I don't care because he's out there being a musician and doing what he likes.. He has the ability to do longer solos or make them more complicated but he chose not to (even though I enjoy the cb solos)

then again the same people hates snakepit which had some great guitar work..

[jarmo]

IRS blows away any rocker that VR did.? VR could only dream of making a song as great or as catchy as IRS and IRS that we heard was just a demo.? I think slash forgot how to make good songs, its too bad he does not have Axl to pull the best out of him, its obvious that Scott cant do that and lets slash just have ass his songs like slash always wanted to do but Axl would never let him.

I thought you didn't wanna make this about Axl vs Slash or Old vs New....   




/jarmo

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

IRS came up on my Winamp, and i was brushing my teeth in the bathroom, i wasn't sure if the *sound* came from my computer speakers or that my sink was about to explodes ...



comparing IRS to a VR song .... i mean ....come on.

[Saul]

IRS blows away any rocker that VR did.  VR could only dream of making a song as great or as catchy as IRS and IRS that we heard was just a demo.  I think slash forgot how to make good songs, its too bad he does not have Axl to pull the best out of him, its obvious that Scott cant do that and lets slash just have ass his songs like slash always wanted to do but Axl would never let him.

I thought you didn't wanna make this about Axl vs Slash or Old vs New....   




/jarmo

I'm so glad somebody pointed that out! 

[Shoco]

IRS blows away any rocker that VR did.  VR could only dream of making a song as great or as catchy as IRS and IRS that we heard was just a demo.  I think slash forgot how to make good songs, its too bad he does not have Axl to pull the best out of him, its obvious that Scott cant do that and lets slash just have ass his songs like slash always wanted to do but Axl would never let him.

haha thats funny reight there, you should be a comedian dude

[Buddha_Master]

Don't see anything funny about that quote dude. And if you knew a thing about it, you would know that that is the truth. Shit fool, Slash had to create Slash's Snakepit, that was basically an album full of music that Axl regected for GN'R. Slash was the first to admit it. Wise up lady.