For the people wondering about the quality of the songs on CD

[freddiebrph]

that was utterly brilliant logic dave.?

you forgot to mention one small detail .. these are two very seperate bands!!

Good point saul, another SMALL detail is that the old band was actually WORKING on a cd!

[Nytunz]

I think it'll be amazing based on the fact that the band has some talented people in it.




/jarmo

Usually, I would tend to agree with you Jarmo, but Contraband was far from amazing in my opinion. Even having such talent as Slash and Duff.

 Well, i agree a bit with you bouth. But remember, there is not "only one fact/reason" which will make the album amazing.
To make a perfect album, after a history beeing "one of the greatest bands on the planet" is not easy. I agree with Jarmo whan he says that the band have talented people. That is very important. But that wont necessery make the album amazing. To use your time on the album is also very important. But it means NOTHING, if you cant get anyway with it. One of the most important process in making the record great is communication trough each band members. So everyone in the band have the same goal/and insight on how this record shall be. If you put 7 great players in a band to make a record, the album can be really great, but it can also be a fiasco if they dont have the right goal with how the record shall be.

 Just to use some exc. Tool is one of few bands, who have made better, and better albums, based on the fans point of view. They have alway had verry good communication in the band. And never had any kind of pressure on themself to make a record because of theyr recordcompanys contract or anything. They have sideprosjects with other band after they have done a release and tour with Tool, to make them focus on something else. And then they find more inspiration for Tool again when they get together, and they have also grown as musicans, and come up with new ideas to make the next record grown from the last, but still sounds like have the tradisional Tool sound.
 
 Well, im not gonna get of Topic. But i belive Axl knows how to do this, but he wont walk to near the edge. GNR rerecorded Appetite, to make the band sound like the old guns. In one way that is really important for the oldtime fans out there. The new Record got to sound like Guns N Roses. If not, its gonna be a failure. But with new elements, and modifictions. There is where the new GNR members means alot!! To make it a bit newsounding and speciall, updated!
It seams like the new members have some Good communication, and know where they are going with this. Maybe that also is a reason why Buckethead is no longer in the band. Because he dident get that much along wiht the others, like Tommy f.eks. And thats the reason why the OLD GNR breakup, becouse they lost theyr longtime communication which they had in the Appetite, and illusion era. Axl was the onlyone who whanted to modyfy the music, and move on, and dont get stuck with something they had already done. Duff, Slash dident understand that. They just whanted to play outdated rock n roll who just had been buryed by the Grunge music, and other new styles on the mid 90s... Axl understood this. And he still does, thats why i belive, and have faith on the new Guns N`Roses album. But yes, they can also fail, if (like i said earlyer) they walk to near the edge, and is loosing theyr identity from the GNR sond. Thats what Metallica did in the mid 90! Axl wont do that!

 - Nytunz -

[GNRisSLASH]

Saul you just keep proving your ignorance when you cannot understand the underlying and simple point of my post. But it?s ok since we have come to expect that from you over the years.  My point is a very valid once, you can claim what ever you want but the point is CD is pretty much a greatest hits of this new band if they were to have released an album in 2000, 2002 and 2004.  I am sorry if you can?t comprehend that. Also the songs on the album how do  you know how long they worked on each track? That just proves you totally missed the point of the thread. I am sorry you cant undestand this simple concept.

DaveGnr2k112903, why must you stoop to insults in every thread? YOu tell me I can't read. You tell Saul he is ignorant.  You take things so personally when someone has any type of criticism for nu GnR. Are you in the band?

But, back to the topic that YOU started ---

Taking a long time to record an album doesn't make it good and doesn't make it a greatest hits CD.  To assume it would assumes that the more songs you write, the better chance you have to get 15 great ones.  This is flawed logic.  You may only write 8 and they could be gems. Or you could put out a double album and still only have 8 good ones on it.  It's quality, not quantity.  And with rotating musicians, and most of all, an obvious lack of any spontaneity, why should we assume there are so many gems in there? We've all heard Rhiad, Silkworms, Oh My God, and CD. Many people say those are great b/c they like anything by Axl but be realistic.  None of those are even remotely gems and none of them hold a candle to the tracks we've all grown up on from AFD, Lies, or UYI. 

[Lord Kayoss]

This thread is not in any way relevant to how CD is going to be.  Nothing is for that matter.

[Rockin' Rose]

I think it'll be amazing based on the fact that the band has some talented people in it.




/jarmo

Usually, I would tend to agree with you Jarmo, but Contraband was far from amazing in my opinion. Even having such talent as Slash and Duff.

 Well, i agree a bit with you bouth. But remember, there is not "only one fact/reason" which will make the album amazing.
To make a perfect album, after a history beeing "one of the greatest bands on the planet" is not easy. I agree with Jarmo whan he says that the band have talented people. That is very important. But that wont necessery make the album amazing. To use your time on the album is also very important. But it means NOTHING, if you cant get anyway with it. One of the most important process in making the record great is communication trough each band members. So everyone in the band have the same goal/and insight on how this record shall be. If you put 7 great players in a band to make a record, the album can be really great, but it can also be a fiasco if they dont have the right goal with how the record shall be.

 Just to use some exc. Tool is one of few bands, who have made better, and better albums, based on the fans point of view. They have alway had verry good communication in the band. And never had any kind of pressure on themself to make a record because of theyr recordcompanys contract or anything. They have sideprosjects with other band after they have done a release and tour with Tool, to make them focus on something else. And then they find more inspiration for Tool again when they get together, and they have also grown as musicans, and come up with new ideas to make the next record grown from the last, but still sounds like have the tradisional Tool sound.
 
 Well, im not gonna get of Topic. But i belive Axl knows how to do this, but he wont walk to near the edge. GNR rerecorded Appetite, to make the band sound like the old guns. In one way that is really important for the oldtime fans out there. The new Record got to sound like Guns N Roses. If not, its gonna be a failure. But with new elements, and modifictions. There is where the new GNR members means alot!! To make it a bit newsounding and speciall, updated!
It seams like the new members have some Good communication, and know where they are going with this. Maybe that also is a reason why Buckethead is no longer in the band. Because he dident get that much along wiht the others, like Tommy f.eks. And thats the reason why the OLD GNR breakup, becouse they lost theyr longtime communication which they had in the Appetite, and illusion era. Axl was the onlyone who whanted to modyfy the music, and move on, and dont get stuck with something they had already done. Duff, Slash dident understand that. They just whanted to play outdated rock n roll who just had been buryed by the Grunge music, and other new styles on the mid 90s... Axl understood this. And he still does, thats why i belive, and have faith on the new Guns N`Roses album. But yes, they can also fail, if (like i said earlyer) they walk to near the edge, and is loosing theyr identity from the GNR sond. Thats what Metallica did in the mid 90! Axl wont do that!

 - Nytunz -

If I remember correctly Duff actually was on Axl's "team", it was Slash and Matt who wanted to continue the AFD road.

I think that CD is going to be amazing because some how I feel that Axl is also tormented by the fear of not succeed in. I just hope he hasn't ditched all the industrial elements.. but I'm sure we're going to get some great stuff.

[Krispy Kreme]

Saul you just keep proving your ignorance when you cannot understand the underlying and simple point of my post. But it?s ok since we have come to expect that from you over the years.? My point is a very valid once, you can claim what ever you want but the point is CD is pretty much a greatest hits of this new band if they were to have released an album in 2000, 2002 and 2004.? I am sorry if you can?t comprehend that. Also the songs on the album how do? you know how long they worked on each track? That just proves you totally missed the point of the thread. I am sorry you cant undestand this simple concept.

There is no evidence  whatsoever that CD is, or will be, a greatest hits compilation of the new band. Just because you (Dave) say  it will be, does not mean it will be. There  is absolutely nothing to support this claim-no supporting statements from management, from  the band, or most  importantly, from Axl. So, really, it is an empty assertion.

[ppbebe]

Yep, nytunz. Nowadays they don't have to hang out with each other all the time to communicate.
Look at us!?!

Also Same to you, Buddha, n others I don't want to hear a mere extension of those old sounds. I want   fresh sounds of today's GN'R.

The band has the members not only talented but also patient as job and a dedicated leader who can  brings out musicians latent abilities.

And yep, haste makes massive wastes while Axl makes CD. 

I've always been a believer in band chemistry and no matter if you took the top 20 musicians in the world and shoved them in a room , if they cant learn to gel and if they dont have the right chemistry it wont work.

But with that said , it seems the new band might have chemistry .. they seemed to show it onstage in 2002 , however that translating over into writing and recording new material is a whole different thing. I'm steadfast in my belief that time alone wont make democracy a sure thing when in fact taking all this time to sit on songs , change them and maybe even scrap some stuff could even be worse for the final product.

Whatever it is , I just wanna hear it. I'm confident it will be a very strong album.

I agree that a bunch of good musicians doesn't mean a good band.
By contraries Slashead and the 3 nobodies off the street Band might make a great band. Who knows.

I am A fan of band works. The critical element in music is harmony and in rock music the musical chemistry of a band. that's what it's all about.

And some of the new songs prove that they have it.
At least I hear it. that's why I'm here.

[mikegiuliana]

Interesting dave.. Anything is possible.. I just think people try to justify the wait by? trying some out there logic.. Would this work for any band who kept their lead singer??? ?They have talented players beside that it's all guess work.. I can only go by what I have heard so far.

Just to add when gnr did their amazing music they were living off the streets writing about real life matters hungry to make it... No it doesn't mean you need to be broke living together in some roach infested room... They had hunger and music was the only thing in their lives back then.. Now it's a rich man with other things to do in life besides make a big record..

[Mikkamakka]

It's like the longer the wait the better album we get and it doesn't matter that the band finished the music in 2003. CD's like a great wine... keep it in a dark and dry place, and lock the doors. Work on it and then bury the whole thing. It'll perfect.

[BD888]

This may give us an idea of what CD could be like. It has taken the? band about 5 or 6 years to make this album.? That is how long the oringal band was together 87-93. Lets just say that Gnr worked on their first album for 6 years, like this new gnr they would have had close to 60 songs to choose from.? So lets take AFD, Lies and the UYIs and make a 14 track cd.

1. WTTJ
2. Night Train
3. Mr Brownstone
4. SCOM
5. PC
6. Patience
7. don?t cry
8. nov rain
9. coma
10. civil war
11. breakdown
12.? locomotive
13.? estranged
14.? ycbm

If the old gnr took as long as the new band to release an album this could have been the track listing. So this could give us a window how great CD is going to be. If the? band really did make close to 40 songs min and max 60 songs they will pick the best 12-15. Just think how amazing it should be. Also like CD this set list only has 4 rockers and the rest are epics and a few ballads.

How did

11. breakdown
12.? locomotive

get into your best 14 songs of the GNR catalogue?? I wouldn't even put them on a reworked single cd of the illusion albums.? I mean they are interesting songs, but really they were album filler as far as the rest of the songs on UYI in my opinion.? ? Anyways I digress from your topic...

There is no evidence that Axl has completed any songs other than the ones played in the 2001-2002 tours, oh and I wouldn't count IRS either.? ?The 6 years in the making of CD doesn't have any correlation to the number of songs written by the orignal members of GNR in the '87-93 period, especially as some songs were written earlier than '87 and all the orignals were released by '91 and would have been released a year earlier if not for Axl relaying the vocals.? ?Also, why has the words of this A&R guy been written in stone as the truth as to what's coming out on the new album?

[noizzynofuture]

Yep, nytunz. Nowadays they don't have to hang out with each other all the time to communicate.
Look at us!?!

Also Same to you, Buddha, n others I don't want to hear a mere extension of those old sounds. I want? ?fresh sounds of today's GN'R.

The band has the members not only talented but also patient as job and a dedicated leader who can? brings out musicians latent abilities.

And yep, haste makes massive wastes while Axl makes CD.?

I agree that a bunch of good musicians doesn't mean a good band.
By contraries Slashead and the 3 nobodies off the street Band might make a great band. Who knows.

I am A fan of band works. The critical element in music is harmony and in rock music the musical chemistry of a band. that's what it's all about.

And some of the new songs prove that they have it.
At least I hear it. that's why I'm here.

ppbebe, is there a way i can get a translator for your posts? ? I have no idea what your point is .... ever.

And Dave, please try not to confuse your crazy dreams of what CD is going to be with actual reality.? I can only imagine with the logic and intelligence you're using that you must be the mayor of Boston

[killingvector]

Saul you just keep proving your ignorance when you cannot understand the underlying and simple point of my post. But it?s ok since we have come to expect that from you over the years.  My point is a very valid once, you can claim what ever you want but the point is CD is pretty much a greatest hits of this new band if they were to have released an album in 2000, 2002 and 2004.  I am sorry if you can?t comprehend that. Also the songs on the album how do  you know how long they worked on each track? That just proves you totally missed the point of the thread. I am sorry you cant undestand this simple concept.

DaveGnr2k112903, why must you stoop to insults in every thread? YOu tell me I can't read. You tell Saul he is ignorant.  You take things so personally when someone has any type of criticism for nu GnR. Are you in the band?

But, back to the topic that YOU started ---

Taking a long time to record an album doesn't make it good and doesn't make it a greatest hits CD.  To assume it would assumes that the more songs you write, the better chance you have to get 15 great ones.  This is flawed logic.  You may only write 8 and they could be gems. Or you could put out a double album and still only have 8 good ones on it.  It's quality, not quantity.  And with rotating musicians, and most of all, an obvious lack of any spontaneity, why should we assume there are so many gems in there? We've all heard Rhiad, Silkworms, Oh My God, and CD. Many people say those are great b/c they like anything by Axl but be realistic.  None of those are even remotely gems and none of them hold a candle to the tracks we've all grown up on from AFD, Lies, or UYI. 

I think Madagascar and Blues are gems. OMG is a fan's song and it definately grows on you, much like IRS. So what's your point by pointing out 3 songs (Rhiad, Silkworms, OMG) which most likely won't even be on CD?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Saul you just keep proving your ignorance when you cannot understand the underlying and simple point of my post. But it?s ok since we have come to expect that from you over the years.? My point is a very valid once, you can claim what ever you want but the point is CD is pretty much a greatest hits of this new band if they were to have released an album in 2000, 2002 and 2004.? I am sorry if you can?t comprehend that. Also the songs on the album how do? you know how long they worked on each track? That just proves you totally missed the point of the thread. I am sorry you cant undestand this simple concept.

DaveGnr2k112903, why must you stoop to insults in every thread? YOu tell me I can't read. You tell Saul he is ignorant.? You take things so personally when someone has any type of criticism for nu GnR. Are you in the band?

But, back to the topic that YOU started ---

Taking a long time to record an album doesn't make it good and doesn't make it a greatest hits CD.? To assume it would assumes that the more songs you write, the better chance you have to get 15 great ones.? This is flawed logic.? You may only write 8 and they could be gems. Or you could put out a double album and still only have 8 good ones on it.? It's quality, not quantity.? And with rotating musicians, and most of all, an obvious lack of any spontaneity, why should we assume there are so many gems in there? We've all heard Rhiad, Silkworms, Oh My God, and CD. Many people say those are great b/c they like anything by Axl but be realistic.? None of those are even remotely gems and none of them hold a candle to the tracks we've all grown up on from AFD, Lies, or UYI.?

GIS how did? I insult you? You really need a clue and i am sorry if you cant understand my simple point. Like I said? you and saul tried to turn this into a new vs old thread and that is fine its what you both do.? ?I am sorry if you were not smart enough to understand my simple point.

Also you are very immature esp since  you claim I insulted you yet you keep mocking my user name. You should really try and grow up you dont make yourself look good when do keep doing that. What are  you 5 or something?

[ppbebe]

To me, IRS, Rhiad, Chinese Democracy, OMG are the gems.
It will take time till the blues and maddy grow on me.

noizzynofuture, what parts you mean? it would be helpful if you could point them out.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Yep, nytunz. Nowadays they don't have to hang out with each other all the time to communicate.
Look at us!?!

Also Same to you, Buddha, n others I don't want to hear a mere extension of those old sounds. I want? ?fresh sounds of today's GN'R.

The band has the members not only talented but also patient as job and a dedicated leader who can? brings out musicians latent abilities.

And yep, haste makes massive wastes while Axl makes CD.?

I agree that a bunch of good musicians doesn't mean a good band.
By contraries Slashead and the 3 nobodies off the street Band might make a great band. Who knows.

I am A fan of band works. The critical element in music is harmony and in rock music the musical chemistry of a band. that's what it's all about.

And some of the new songs prove that they have it.
At least I hear it. that's why I'm here.

ppbebe, is there a way i can get a translator for your posts? ? I have no idea what your point is .... ever.

And Dave, please try not to confuse your crazy dreams of what CD is going to be with actual reality.? I can only imagine with the logic and intelligence you're using that you must be the mayor of Boston

You need to come back to reality, please. I know that the VR album was really terrible but come back to earth. I can bet you this much that CD is going to be better than anything Contraband has put out. I know you, saul, sig and KK are all saddened that slash cant write a good song with out Axl and it even pains you guys even more that Axl is just as good with out slash and duff.  You are just bitter and that is ok, we all feel your pain.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

This may give us an idea of what CD could be like. It has taken the? band about 5 or 6 years to make this album.? That is how long the oringal band was together 87-93. Lets just say that Gnr worked on their first album for 6 years, like this new gnr they would have had close to 60 songs to choose from.? So lets take AFD, Lies and the UYIs and make a 14 track cd.

1. WTTJ
2. Night Train
3. Mr Brownstone
4. SCOM
5. PC
6. Patience
7. don?t cry
8. nov rain
9. coma
10. civil war
11. breakdown
12.? locomotive
13.? estranged
14.? ycbm

If the old gnr took as long as the new band to release an album this could have been the track listing. So this could give us a window how great CD is going to be. If the? band really did make close to 40 songs min and max 60 songs they will pick the best 12-15. Just think how amazing it should be. Also like CD this set list only has 4 rockers and the rest are epics and a few ballads.

How did

11. breakdown
12.? locomotive

get into your best 14 songs of the GNR catalogue?? I wouldn't even put them on a reworked single cd of the illusion albums.? I mean they are interesting songs, but really they were album filler as far as the rest of the songs on UYI in my opinion.? ? Anyways I digress from your topic...

There is no evidence that Axl has completed any songs other than the ones played in the 2001-2002 tours, oh and I wouldn't count IRS either.? ?The 6 years in the making of CD doesn't have any correlation to the number of songs written by the orignal members of GNR in the '87-93 period, especially as some songs were written earlier than '87 and all the orignals were released by '91 and would have been released a year earlier if not for Axl relaying the vocals.? ?Also, why has the words of this A&R guy been written in stone as the truth as to what's coming out on the new album?

No evidence? Really? I guess you should really learn to read. Brain May said he had 2 or 3 albums of completed materal done and that was a few years ago, plus pretty much everyone in the band and merk have said the album is pretty much done cept for axl touching up vocals.  You really need a reality check like your little click, that think Axl only has 2 songs done.

As for the A and R guy, he just passed Axl in the hall, yet  he knows what is going on with CD? That is funny, that is a great source dont you think? Maybe if your little world but we live in the real world. Nice try though.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Yea I feel you dude. I have no problem at all with the whole 4 rocker and the rest more challenging shit. I have secretly wished for Axl to expand his horizons because he has the voice of a god. I always envisioned Axl doing trippier and deeper music like Zepplin with a little Pink Floyd added to the mix. Part of the genius of the mans voice is that it sounds different depending on your mood. I remember being real stoned when the UYI's were released and I heard the Garden, and whoa... this whole new world for Axl just appeared. His voice cuts and penetrates your skull and pulls your soul through your minds eye. Serious his voice has been so utterly misused over the past couple decades its made me mental. There is so much untapped shit that he could (and should) go with that voice and his godgiven songwriting ability.

I have a real feeling he wanted to go into this netherworld music direction, and because of all the fucking idiots who keep trying to pigeon hole him (like the stupid fuckin fans, and the old members) that he feels he can't stray to far off from the GNR sound. Its like he was attempting baby steps.

Man, I don't know if you people even know what Im talking about so I'll stop here.

  BuddhaMaster,  I've never indulged in the wacky weed, never have never will...but I'll tell you this, we are on the same page when it comes to your post.  Very good post.  BTW, if they did legalize it, we'd have less violent crime. 

  Also, Davegnfnr2k, I like your post too.  There is alot of potential with the time it's taken.  However, there will always be a couple of songs someone's not crazy about.  Like for me (My World, Bad Apples, Get in the Ring, So Fine, etc.)   It's inevitable.  Axl's chase for perfection will leave him disappointed in the end.  If he's just searching for a kick-ass fuckin' album, we'll be sitting pretty.    

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Btw Im just waiting for bookers two cents.

[Miss-Aussie]

To me, IRS, Rhiad, Chinese Democracy, OMG are the gems.
It will take time till the blues and maddy grow on me.

Totally agree with you there...

 I jus want them to stay origonal.... GNR are legends, and i hope to god that they dont bring any of this new Rock shit out ... i swear to god i would jus die if that ever happened...

[younggunner]

They had hunger and music was the only thing in their lives back then.. Now it's a rich man with other things to do in life besides make a big record..

lacks any other song writers, and has an aging lead singer whose best vocal days are behind him.The band is not youong, is clearly not hungry, and is the product of a multi-millionaire recluse.

Buckethead and Tommy Stinson are excellent songwriters. To say that this new band doesnt have any other songw riters is being ignorant and dumb. The jury is out on Finck. The jury is also out on how Bucket, Tommy, Robin and the rest of the band can make a song together. All we have are a handful of songs and by the sound of it thus far they sure can.

What does age have to do with anything? You guys dont think Axl is hungry? You dont think he wants to make the best possible album he can make? Isnt that hunger? Just because hes not living in the gutter doesnt mean he doesnt have goals. If Axl didnt have any hunger and was just fukin around with his millions he would have put out a few albums by now. For any1 to say Axl is not hungry to make music is being pretty dumb.
He may not be hungry enough to care whether you like him or not but he sure as hell is hungry to make the music he wants to make.

As for this thread. I mean time really isnt a factor in regards to a great album. It could take a few days or it could take years. For all we know the "hits" made by this band could have been mad ein 2 days. Other things could be holding up the album not just songs.  What should matter is that when that particular album comes out...its great. How it got to be great or how long it took will be irrelevant as long as its music to your ears.

In a perfect world we all want this new band to be out there tearin it up showin these wangsta bands how its done. But we are in Axsl world. We are in GNrs world. And that world isnt perfect boys and girls.

So you just have to deal with it or move on. But in the end no matter what world it is as long as the album is great then thats all thats gonna matter for your lifetime and all the lil boys and girls lifetimes who discover old and or new gnr. The drama and frusterations will be long gone. All that will be left is an album. And the music that comes from that album will ultimately decide whether its a great album or not.