The legacy of Use Your Illusion

[St.heathen]

They are superb albums and i'm with those who say that with time people will go back to them and appriciate them a bit more.

As a fan thankfully we got such big albums because we have had nothing since lol.  But yeah i can see where they missed the mark on those albums.  I know some people hate the covers but they were massive singles which you can't deny  they helped them sell more records  to a wider audience.

A couple of songs on those albums which are nearly great, but the lyrics let them down a bit. I think songs like Breakdown , Bad Apples, Back of bitch, Shotgun Blues. Me as a fan i think they are great songs i can really enjoy them.   But I can see from a different perspective, they just lack the maturity or depth that the great GN'R songs have.  They so worked better as a co-operative writing team imo.  If UYI's had been one album, I think it would have helped. 

[ryan_of_lax]

You have to take a look back at when the UYIs were first released.
Look at how huge they were.
Not a failure or even anything close to it.

The thing that bothers me about the album is the drum sound. The drums sound more 80's than AFD, which was put out in the 80s.

I love those CDs though. And I consider UYI2 to be better than Appetite. Sure it has a "bad" song or two, but I can't handle Anything Goes or the electric version of You're Crazy either.

One of the reasons I think Appetite has outlived the UYIs is because of up and coming musicians.
Pretty much anyone learning guitar can play most of Appetite. Like... how cool does it sound when you can play Welcome To The Jungle or Rocket Queen to your friends. They'd think you're the best player ever.

I know a lot of Guns N Roses cover bands (including Axls band) only play AFD songs with a few UYI songs. The reason for this is that the UYI songs are way too complex to pull off properly for the most part.

This is one of the reasons I think Metallica are so big. Memorable guitar riffs that impress people.

[Axlative]

I know a lot of Guns N Roses cover bands (including Axls band) only play AFD songs with a few UYI songs. The reason for this is that the UYI songs are way too complex to pull off properly for the most part.

This is one of the reasons I think Metallica are so big. Memorable guitar riffs that impress people.

I hear ya! Also one similar point where Guns "loses" in exposeure to Metallica when looking from the cover/karaoke perspective is that while any band can play a GNR tune well, it isn't often you hear someone singing it equally well. Afterall, they are supposed to somewhat resemble Axl's performance (well, ok, there's also Duff & Izzy tunes to pick...) which is rather tough. Unlike resembling Hetfield or anyone else with a nice sound but a limited vocal range. That leads to less GNR songs being played. Kind of sucks.

[33]

The Illusion albums! Fuck me mindblowing! Appetite lured me into the world of Guns and then Illusions just blew the fucking roof off! In my opinion they changed music. Appetite in itself is fucking wicked and I love it, but Illusions went that whole lot further and a lot deeper!! Hence why I am chomping at the bit for the next installment of Axls songwriting!! I for one dont miss the old band now however cool they were, cos they decided to leave and didnt want the band to evolve, but it is a shame that Izzys songwriting wont be on Chinese Democracy!!

[Buddha_Master]

I said it in the IRS discussions thread I resurrected, but I will reiterate here. IRS is leaps and bounds better then any track off the UYI's. Yea that's right. If the quality off the rest of Chinese Democracy stacks up well alongside IRS, this will be what a GNR album should be. I just hope their won't be UYI misteps. These misteps keep the UYI's from being masterpieces, and anyone calling them that are seriously um, using their illusion to paint the albums a different shade then what they actually are. Remember, I dig them, but I can't deny their are tracks that as a fan, bother me. Its silly to call them masterpieces, when their are true masterpieces in rock music. I would think Axl would be the first to agree, that their are glaring mistakes on those two albums.


GNR's true legacy will be sealed with the arrival of Chinese Democracy, if the other tracks on it are on the same caliber (not necessarily hard rockers) as I.R.S.

[mikegiuliana]

Do you think they have stood the test of time? Do you think they are getting more praise and consideration over time, or are becomming more obscure?? Rolling Stone, in the new album guide gives UYI 1 five stars (out of five) and UYI 2 4 stars. Not to shabby.

two excellent albums but gnr in the minds of most is a one album (afd) band.... A few known songs like nr off the illusions but the mark is nothing like afd..

[AxlsMainMan]

In 2001, BMG music magazine advertised the UYI albums as "tenth anniversary of two rock classics".? ?

I think Buddha is right, for every incredible song on the UYI albums, there were missteps, such as "You Ain't the First" and the alternate lyrics version of "Don't Cry".? If they had whittled it down a bit, the albums would've been tighter and ultimately more revered.? But they were still successful and produced some of GNR's greatest songs such as "Estranged" and "November Rain".? I still hear "Rain" getting played on radio sometimes.

Hey I actually really like "You Aint The First". It may have been misplaced for the worse during the mixing of the album but to me it still sounds like vintage Izzy and has a great vibe to it.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I said it in the IRS discussions thread I resurrected, but I will reiterate here. IRS is leaps and bounds better then any track off the UYI's. Yea that's right. If the quality off the rest of Chinese Democracy stacks up well alongside IRS, this will be what a GNR album should be. I just hope their won't be UYI misteps. These misteps keep the UYI's from being masterpieces, and anyone calling them that are seriously um, using their illusion to paint the albums a different shade then what they actually are. Remember, I dig them, but I can't deny their are tracks that as a fan, bother me. Its silly to call them masterpieces, when their are true masterpieces in rock music. I would think Axl would be the first to agree, that their are glaring mistakes on those two albums.


GNR's true legacy will be sealed with the arrival of Chinese Democracy, if the other tracks on it are on the same caliber (not necessarily hard rockers) as I.R.S.

Axl always said the UYIs were not finished to his liking but the label and rest of the band pushed him into releasing it. Axl said after that he would never let that happen again. This is one of the main reasons CD is  being delayed because Axl wants it to be perfect. 

[Booker Floyd]

Axl always said the UYIs were not finished to his liking but the label and rest of the band pushed him into releasing it. Axl said after that he would never let that happen again. This is one of the main reasons CD is? being delayed because Axl wants it to be perfect.?

Yeah man, hes always said that...

"Everything on that record is exactly the f*cking way we wanted it. I can find a couple of points where a note wasn't quite in time, and a couple of things like that, but everything came out the way we wanted it." - Axl (Metallix, 1992)

" (On the Illusions) Slash and I were talking about that this morning. We're very proud of what we've done for ourselves. We planned it out since before we released the first album. We didn't know it was going to be quite so many songs, but we still feel it's the best thing we could have done." - Axl (RAW, 1993)
         
So either youre lying, or hes lying...

By the way, when did he blame the rest of the band for pushing him into releasing it?

[jabba2]

The Illusions seem too much in-depth or artistic, IMO. Great songs that were sometimes overdone or over-produced. Great guiter riffs from Slash and Axl does well on the vocal melodies. But a number of Illusion songs would have been better finished as rough copies, and less work in the studio. In a way those records seem to have been the death of heavy metal, or the last artistic statement attempted by all great rocks bands of the 70's and 80's. Some say it worked, others say it did not.

I think the covers would have been better kept of the Illusions and released as singles.

[ledgun]

They are superb albums and i'm with those who say that with time people will go back to them and appriciate them a bit more.

As a fan thankfully we got such big albums because we have had nothing since lol. But yeah i can see where they missed the mark on those albums. I know some people hate the covers but they were massive singles which you can't deny they helped them sell more records to a wider audience.

A couple of songs on those albums which are nearly great, but the lyrics let them down a bit. I think songs like Breakdown , Bad Apples, Back of bitch, Shotgun Blues. Me as a fan i think they are great songs i can really enjoy them. But I can see from a different perspective, they just lack the maturity or depth that the great GN'R songs have. They so worked better as a co-operative writing team imo. If UYI's had been one album, I think it would have helped.

? ? 1st Guns album was UYI 1, though that was closely followed by AFD, which will always be the best (or will it......: )

 So, if they HAD been just the 1 album what tracks would be on it? 14 favourite are...

1) Live and let die
2)Coma
3)You could be mine
4)Dust and bones
5)Civil war
6)The Garden
7)Garden of Eden
8)14 years
9)Knocking on heavens door
10)Estranged
11)Double talkin jive
12)Perfect Crime
13)November Rain
14)Dont cry(Alt lyrics) - (Lyrics are great I think, just dodgy mixing.....)

[ledgun]

Oh and  Im aware of the previous 1998 amalgamation so dont bother pointing that out!

[Buddha_Master]

They are superb albums and i'm with those who say that with time people will go back to them and appriciate them a bit more.

As a fan thankfully we got such big albums because we have had nothing since lol. But yeah i can see where they missed the mark on those albums. I know some people hate the covers but they were massive singles which you can't deny they helped them sell more records to a wider audience.

A couple of songs on those albums which are nearly great, but the lyrics let them down a bit. I think songs like Breakdown , Bad Apples, Back of bitch, Shotgun Blues. Me as a fan i think they are great songs i can really enjoy them. But I can see from a different perspective, they just lack the maturity or depth that the great GN'R songs have. They so worked better as a co-operative writing team imo. If UYI's had been one album, I think it would have helped.

? ? 1st Guns album was UYI 1, though that was closely followed by AFD, which will always be the best (or will it......: )

 So, if they HAD been just the 1 album what tracks would be on it? 14 favourite are...

1) Live and let die
2)Coma
3)You could be mine
4)Dust and bones
5)Civil war
6)The Garden
7)Garden of Eden
8)14 years
9)Knocking on heavens door
10)Estranged
11)Double talkin jive
12)Perfect Crime
13)November Rain
14)Dont cry(Alt lyrics) - (Lyrics are great I think, just dodgy mixing.....)

Take KOHD right the fuck off that list. This version is very disrespectful to the Dylan Original (the one from 2002 is infinitely better), and add locomotive and Don't Damn me...then we would have a potential GNR masterpiece.

Only problem is I think the running time is a bit too long

[ledgun]

Can see why you might dislike KOHD, but fuck it, its my list! To call it disrespectful may be overdoing it - covering a song only implies great respect for the artist and his work. Sure there may be less dangerous Dylan tracks to try, or perhaps a more conservative cover, but I dont consider it to be any more controversial than the clip at the start of Civil War or the ML King? speech in Madagascar.
? ? ?Dont Damn Me, great song, lyrically one of the strongest on either album, first alternate on my list just cos I dont? ?think its the strongest instrumentally.?

[Buddha_Master]

Dude there isnt anything controversal about GNR covering KOHD. Shit its been covered countless times before GNR ever touched it. But the version on UYI2 and the one performed duing the get in the ring tour is disrespectful, as it cheeses up something special.

The use of Martin Luther King Jr, is a complitely seperate issue, and Im surprised you would even draw an example from that. Madagascar and the use of MLK's words, to me at least, are very powerful, and treated with the highest level of respect. Again this is a different thing that I am talking about with KOHD, which is an embarrassement with that lame ass phone dialing and speech (or on tour when they do the cough...reggae(fuckin lame)...goddamn that kills me. So fucking goofy.

[Dust N Rose]

Axl always said the UYIs were not finished to his liking but the label and rest of the band pushed him into releasing it. Axl said after that he would never let that happen again. This is one of the main reasons CD is? being delayed because Axl wants it to be perfect.?

Yeah man, hes always said that...

"Everything on that record is exactly the f*cking way we wanted it. I can find a couple of points where a note wasn't quite in time, and a couple of things like that, but everything came out the way we wanted it." - Axl (Metallix, 1992)

" (On the Illusions) Slash and I were talking about that this morning. We're very proud of what we've done for ourselves. We planned it out since before we released the first album. We didn't know it was going to be quite so many songs, but we still feel it's the best thing we could have done." - Axl (RAW, 1993)
? ? ? ? ?
So either youre lying, or hes lying...

By the way, when did he blame the rest of the band for pushing him into releasing it?

He said both things you two wrote. But, the statement he wasn't happy with illusions is more realistic because the statements you wrote were done during the Illusion dominance. I don't know if there's a group or singer that bashes his work when it's in the spotlights.

[ryan_of_lax]

That's true... Seems like whenever a band have a new album out they always say "This is our best work yet."
Then you hear them bashing it a few years later in retrospect.

Everyone always say that the Use Your Illusions were overproduced? How is that?
There are some cool things going on, but I definitely wouldn't call it overproduced.

For the most part its your basic 2 guitars, drums, bass and vocals.
If that's overproduced then I'd hate to see your take on The Downward Spiral or something...

[Bridge]

He said both things you two wrote. But, the statement he wasn't happy with illusions is more realistic because the statements you wrote were done during the Illusion dominance. I don't know if there's a group or singer that bashes his work when it's in the spotlights.

true, But that doesn't really matter.  fact is, he still said he loved it and then contradicted himself.  I think that is the point Booker is making.


And Booker, I believe Axl said in that speech Dave mentioned that he caved into pressure internally in GNR and externally in the press when he didn't believe the albums were ready.

[jimmythegent]

He said both things you two wrote. But, the statement he wasn't happy with illusions is more realistic because the statements you wrote were done during the Illusion dominance. I don't know if there's a group or singer that bashes his work when it's in the spotlights.

true, But that doesn't really matter.? fact is, he still said he loved it and then contradicted himself.? I think that is the point Booker is making.


And Booker, I believe Axl said in that speech Dave mentioned that he caved into pressure internally in GNR and externally in the press when he didn't believe the albums were ready.

I remember Axl saying that the only thing he wasnt 100% on Illusions was the spoken word part of Breakdown. As it is, he took a ridiculous amount of time to finish those albums as well (although in comparison to CD it's nothing i guess)

[NorthwindNS]

Both albums kick ass. It's amazing how critical some people can be of something so great. The point of both UYI was that it was not centered on appealing to just one audience, no matter who you are there has to be one song you like from the two albums... even if it is the Ho-Down song... that I personal think rocks... I mean, Slash is playing the goddamn dobro... that kicks ass. If someone is a true GNR fan, they have to like nearly all the songs on these two UYI albums. In my opinion, they kick ass.....


And CIVIL WAR is one of the best fucking songs of all time.....

NDB