Slash, Duff Sue Axl Over Guns N' Roses Publishing Royalties

[W. Botaxl Rose]

You weirdo's all realise they filed a lawsuit because they are looking to retrieve the ten of thousands of $'s that is rightfully theirs? When this much money is at stake one has to file a lawsuit to shed light on the subject & assure that the matter will be handled truthfully in a court of law. U really think Slash & Duff are sitting around trying to come up with ways to dick over some tired old hasbeen who does a good enough job of making a fool out of himself on his own? U all realise that Slash & Duff are currently in another multi-platinum band & have obviously moved on with their lives, but just want to get the money that is rightfully theirs. Do u freaks honestly think Slash & Duff are really doing this so the world thinks Botaxl is a bad guy? So if someone/a group of people somehow swindled u out of tens of thousands of dollars that is rightfully yours, u wouldn't take them to court over it? Can't wait to hear the rationalizations for this one.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

... I really feel bad for S&D; they have dug a huge hole for themselves. It is possible now that this incident could come up in trial in November as an example of their unscrupulous activity.

I have no sympathy for them. ?They are out to get Axl. ?It may very well come back and bite them in the ass.
I think in their efforts to discredit Axl, they have probably un-earthed a world of evidence that Weitzman may use to show that they abandoned the partnership.
I noticed how they ask for "partnership documents and files". ?When is the last time they were in the offices of the GN'R partnership? ?Who files the parntership tax return? ?Who answered the "Don't Cry lawsuit"? ?I believe Axl /agents which Axl has retainted and paid ever since forever have been handling the GN'R partnership and affairs. ?And why? ?Because when they quit they left Axl to deal with everything! ?I believe the most involvement they've had is perhaps signing obligatory documents which require their signatures.

Its a theory of mine. ?We'll see. ?

[Dust N Rose]

I don't get most of you people. It's easy to blame Axl or to worship Axl 
It's easy to pick a side but none of them are saints to follow the one or the others.
Personally, Axl accusers are more annoying to me than the Axl lovers. Also, the former member's accusers are annoying too. Why showing antipathy for someone? it makes you miser.

The point is, the former members fell to Axl's trap (whether it was planned or not). They showed low-mindedness, they didn't treat the case smartly.

Oh, and btw both Axl and S&D blame one each other often. Axl wants to prove why they weren't worthy to be part of GN'R (and boost his own line up) by saying Slash's didn't want GN'R to advance or they didn't give any interest... and the old members want to give an excuse why they left the band by saying Axl's selfish, megalomaniac, weirdo and trendy.

[Bridge]

Mostly I've been just reading this rather heated debate, but something which has come up repeatedly is Slash and Duff speaking through their lawyers, and why don't they have the "balls" to say it themselves.? For starters, one could surmise that the lawyer is either misquoting the two of them, or taking it out of context.? Rock n roll fans should all know that whenever -- and I mean anytime -- someone repeats something that was said by someone else, it oftentimes is taking out of context.

Secondly, even if the lawyer quoted them word for word, what about Axl's lawyer?? he made that condescending little comment about Axl being the catalyst of GNR music.? Do you really think Axl had nothing to do with that little stab?? Does that sound like something a lawyer (who doesn't have any personal emotion invested in GNR) would just make up?  So how is that remark any different than Slash and Duff "speaking through their lawyer?"


Oh yes, and Eva, there is one of your examples you took out of context.? You said Axl was "excited" to work on Slash's songs back then, and then you quoted a Slash comment (about being stubborn) which was actually not the answer to the "axl was excited" issue.? Slash's actual side of the story was that he took some of his material to Axl and that Axl said "i'm not playing this shit".? So after Slash did the snakepit record, Axl comes back to Slash and says "let's try that material" and Slash said something like "sorry, that material is gone, and if I remember correctly, I was refused flat-out".

Believe whomever you choose, but I just wanted to set the record straight about the example you gave.

[Freya]

As far as these lawsuits go, I really don't give a shit one way or the other.  It is millionaires hammering out their differences over more money, who cares? 

I do think that it seems like Axl wrote that last statement and gave it to his lawyer to release.  I mean, the whole tone of it is just so paranoid, "anti-Axl propaganda"?, a tad on the dramatic side.  The whole thing just seems so full of personal venom. 

I don't know if I believe the "clerical error" bit, seems a bit contrived.  Although I don't know what S&D's chances are, one thing that Axl has always schooled himself on is legal issues, he's been lawyer happy for years and years.  So it's hard to believe that he would do these things if he wasn't certain that he would get away with it. 

[Grouse]

Before this thread I didn't have a problem with any of the "old guys" but now after reading this I'm starting to dislike Axl just because of the naive people who "love" him.

S&D release a statement about how Axl steals their money....their liars
But when Axl releases his statement it's true .....Come on people Get your head out of Axl's ass for fuck sake

[killingvector]

I bet the suit will be dismissed very soon.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Booker you really dont make yourself look good when you claim slash and duff dont talk shit about Axl and have not over the past 10 years.

Then I suppose you make yourself look worse when you cant give a list of examples to back up the point your making.

I am not even going to quote

 

Of course youre not.? Slash does nothing but lie, but you cant name any lies.? He does nothing but "talk shit" about Axl and you dont give any examples.? So dont worry about I look...

Booker what is the point of posting the lies and trash talking Slash and Duff have done toward Axl when everyone knows its fact. There was a huge thread about Slash and duff being liars a while ago, and that had most of the info in their how they always change their story.

You are really a sad person when you know what I am saying is true. I am not wasting my time posting the articles when you can just go find them.? Plus a lot of them are in mag articles that I am not digging up.

It?s like me telling you the world is round then you demanding proof that is it by quotes and stuff.?

But just to appease you one of the most recent lies that Slash said was that Axl only had a few songs with vocals done, and we all knew that was a lie. Duff claimed that Axl never wrote any of the music in guns n roses that was another lie.

But of coarse when they are caught in the lie they just claim they are misquoted, how convenient.


Also here is part of an article of many that Slash talks shit about Axl.

THE RAZZ: SLASHED AND BURNED
Mar 5 2004

Axl Rose



"Even to this day I still don't care. But now he's dragged it through the mud so much that even if he said, 'Look guys, I've been to therapy and I'm a better person now, let's get back together anddo a show.' We'd all be like, we don't want to be in that band. 'None of us would have even bothered to think about taking the name."

So is that not talking shit booker? Its also a lie that they dont care about the name since they keep suing Axl. Wow booker that is a double whamy.

Slash said: 'The way things were headed I wanted to quit while it was still cool.

"I didn't want to go down the drain with Axl in that sense."

More bad mouthing Axl. If its not what do you call it booker?

That is just once recenty snipet of an interview.

There are plenty more but that is all you really need to know since it keeps talking like that in most of his interviews when Axls name comes up.

You Lose booker. AGAIN


Slash is not god learn to quote because your post was a mess and I am not going to try and figure it out.

[EstrangedNightrain]

Usually in legal matters the lawsuit at hand can't be talked about from either side, so thats why Slash , Duff and Axl really haven't publicly spoken about it and it is dealt with their lawyers, hence the term lawyers.  Come on people.   "We judge a book by its cover and read what we want, between selected lines"

[MikeB]

 This feud is too immature with this 'not talking to each other bullshit. " They're in their mid/early 40's , I don't know why one of them can just pick up the damn phone and come up with something they can all agree on. Just because it would be a conversation doesn't mean they have to reunite. Right now Slash and Duff are in a band making lots of money from touring all over the world and thier first album has gone platinum. I don't understand why they're all too chicken-shit to talk to Axl about it. For the past few years, Axl has been given a bad rep because of the media. So Slash and Duff need to put better locks on the door with their hunger for money and ego's before they lose their respect they've earned. Two wrongs don't make a right, the grudge they've been holding is getting old, and it's too late to get their revenge on Axl for God know's what.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Mostly I've been just reading this rather heated debate, but something which has come up repeatedly is Slash and Duff speaking through their lawyers, and why don't they have the "balls" to say it themselves.? For starters, one could surmise that the lawyer is either misquoting the two of them, or taking it out of context. ?

I already pointed out that they have built in deniability... they can claim that they aren't/weren't aware of the nature or extent of the allegations - and to be clear the extent of the allegations is that Axl is accused of being a theif.

What is there for their lawyer to 'take out of context' anyway? ?In what context would/could these allegations not label Axl a theif?

Rock n roll fans should all know that whenever -- and I mean anytime -- someone repeats something that was said by someone else, it oftentimes is taking out of context.

So, Slash and Duff's lawyer(s) are the someone in your scenario... and they may not be representing Slash and Duff accurately?
Once again, like I have said already - because they have made these allegations through their lawyer, they have built in deniablity.
(Not that Duff hasn't denied direct quotes, although repeating the same comments he denied making in 2 other interviews )
Further, I never contended that the lawyer's comments or the wording contained in either lawsuit was a "direct quote".
I SAID that Slash and Duff have not made any direct comments to the press or otherwise in public regarding the allegations contained in their lawsuits against Axl. ?

Now let me ask you... if after giving an interview the subject of the interview/article read the article before it was published, signed it and even paid the author to publish it... ?would that not mean that this person was giving it their approval (at the very least?). ? You would have to say "Yes." ?In fact one could say that by paying for the piece to be published they commissioned it. ?Well, what do you think happens before a lawyer files a lawsuit on behalf of his client? ?

But, no mind, as I've stated multiple times now, they still have room to deny knowledge of the nature and extent of the allegations simply by claiming that they didn't understand what was contained in the lawsuits or what they meant. ?They could just say: "We just signed where our lawyers told us to sign... we didn't know it was saying Axl was a theif." ?

Which is why I keep saying its pathetic that they use their lawyer and thier lawsuits to attack Axl and accuse him of theivery whilst they hide behind the saftey buffer of deniability... all in an effort to perpetuate the ideal that they are the good guys and Axl is the evil arragogant asshole who would steal from them. ?Puh-leese. ?Pa-thetic. ?Makes me sick.

Secondly, even if the lawyer quoted them word for word, what about Axl's lawyer? ?he made that condescending little comment about Axl being the catalyst of GNR music. ?Do you really think Axl had nothing to do with that little stab? ?Does that sound like something a lawyer (who doesn't have any personal emotion invested in GNR) would just make up? So how is that remark any different than Slash and Duff "speaking through their lawyer?"

First of all a catalyst is something that activates... motivates... ?inspires... energizes... stimulates... compels even to movement and/or r development that which it is part of. ?What Mr. Weitzman 'condescended' is far from calling someone a theif.

Anyway, Axl has himself had the balls to 'condescend' the following: ?

(In voice of whining fan) 'Y'know without Axl and Slash we wouldn't have November Rain and Estranged." Well you don't know what the fuck I went through to get that guy to play those songs. You don't know about the argument we had at K&M studios, because Duff and Slash came to me going "We're not gonna do that song, we're not gonna do this song, nope, nope, we're just not gonna do it." But I wanna do it. We'll do it right now. This song is called 'patience'." ~ Axl Rose, Pepsi Arena, Albany NY ?11/27/02

"You can only do so many pull-ups"

"I've always been the one held responsible from day one.... ?I've been the one that knows how to get us from point A to point B"

Axl has never attempted to deny nor hesitated to take credit the credit (or blame) for controlling or guiding the band creatively.

Addressing the absence of his old band members, Rose suggests he simply needed to take control to survive. ''It is the old story that you are told when you're a kid: 'Don't buy a car with your friends,' ', he says with his eyes straight ahead.

''Nobody could get the wheel. Everybody had the wheel. And when you have a bunch of guys, I'm telling you, you are driving the car off the cliff. The reality is, go buy those guys' solo records. There are neat ideas and parts there, but they wouldn't have worked for a Guns N`Roses record.

Hear that? ?How condescending, eh?! ? ?

Wait, theres more: ?

"(Axl) clearly believes there was some effort inside the band to destroy him, one born partly of the jealousy that followed fame singling him out. ''When we were in airports and people are ignoring Duff and asking for my autograph, that didn't go over so well,'' Rose recalls. ''The guys would say, you know, 'What am I? Linoleum? What am I? Wood?' '' Things became progressively uglier. ''There was an effort to bring me down,'' he says. ''It was a king of the mountain thing.''

Again, how condescending ? - Axl saying he was the most famous/popular in the band?! ?
LOL! ?Axl has the balls to say these things for a print interview in Rolling Stone magazine...?!
And you ask me if Axl was perhaps hiding behind his lawyer when the recent comments were released to the press by Mr. Weitzman?!
And you have to ask me how Duff and Slash accusing Axl of theivery not once but twice through lawsuits but not having the balls to otherwise acknowledge thier accusations is different? ? ?C'mon!

Oh yes, and Eva, there is one of your examples you took out of context. ?You said Axl was "excited" to work on Slash's songs back then, and then you quoted a Slash comment (about being stubborn) which was actually not the answer to the "axl was excited" issue. ?Slash's actual side of the story was that he took some of his material to Axl and that Axl said "i'm not playing this shit". ?So after Slash did the snakepit record, Axl comes back to Slash and says "let's try that material" and Slash said something like "sorry, that material is gone, and if I remember correctly, I was refused flat-out".

Believe whomever you choose, but I just wanted to set the record straight about the example you gave.

I never claimed the quotes to be a running conversation. ?I never said that Slash's comments were a direct response to Axl's.
Nor did I take the quote out of context - I put it in the exact proper context. ? Context refers not soley to being within the confines of surrounding text literally. ?The meaning of context also encompasses 'the circumstances in which events occur, a setting'. ?

Axl spoke about being excited about Slash bringing in a lot of material. ?This is during the Post-Illusions / Pre break-up era.... ?the "back then" you refer to, no? ?Which is the same period of time - the same setting -the same context to which Slash refers. ?The time when they were trying to work on the new album together. They both refer to this same event/situation. ?The comment slash made about his being stubborn are in the same literal text/context as his comments about Axl wanting to do 'techno or something'... ?So ?see, it is the same thing they were both talking about. ?They spoke about it to different people at different times, but they share their perspectives and feelings regarding a common situation. ?My noting the link between the comments, or connecting the dots if you will, was not taking anything out of context. ?

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Before this thread I didn't have a problem with any of the "old guys" but now after reading this I'm starting to dislike Axl just because of the naive people who "love" him.

encountering people that express faith in Axl and loyalty to Axl has a negative effect on you?
You want to like Axl, but comments by people that express their love and support of Axl makes you not like Axl?

lol!
Perhaps you should in the future, anticipate that you will encounter such expressions at this - a GN'R fan fourm for the new band led by none other than Axl Rose! 

[Bridge]

Whoa Eva, honestly I never intended to become so deep into this heated debate and I'm not gonna.....BUT being the stubborn bastard that I am, I am going to point out one more thing? before I dash away from this thread like the a thief in the night.....

=topic=22306.msg385774#msg385774 date=1125437132]
(In voice of whining fan) 'Y'know without Axl and Slash we wouldn't have November Rain and Estranged." Well you don't know what the fuck I went through to get that guy to play those songs. You don't know about the argument we had at K&M studios, because Duff and Slash came to me going "We're not gonna do that song, we're not gonna do this song, nope, nope, we're just not gonna do it." But I wanna do it. We'll do it right now. This song is called 'patience'." ~ Axl Rose, Pepsi Arena, Albany NY ?11/27/02

For starters, it's A&M studios where they recorded the UYI albums.? ?

Secondly, I have heard this before and I always found this quote to be strange.? the Illusions albums were recorded at A&M studios.? But then Axl throws "Patience" in there at the end.? "Patience" (along with the rest of the LIES album) was recorded at Rumbo studios, not A&M studios.

So Axl seems a bit confused there with what he's talking about.? If he had done one of the ILLUSIONS songs after that rant, it would've been consistent, but it was odd that he threw "Patience" in there.  And you quoted Axl precisely, so we're not taking it out of context here, he claimed they had an argument at A&M studios about songs that Slash and Duff supposedly didn't want to do then says he was going to play one right then and it was "Patience".  Hmmm...

Also, I remember reading a statement from Slash (way back when, like 1991 or something) where he said he liked "Patience".? Maybe Duff didn't, I don't know.? And it's strange Axl got so upset about that song anyway since it was written primarily by Izzy.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Whoa Eva, honestly I never intended to become so deep into this heated debate and I'm not gonna.....BUT being the stubborn bastard that I am, I am going to point out one more thing? before I dash away from this thread like the a thief in the night.....

=topic=22306.msg385774#msg385774 date=1125437132]
(In voice of whining fan) 'Y'know without Axl and Slash we wouldn't have November Rain and Estranged." Well you don't know what the fuck I went through to get that guy to play those songs. You don't know about the argument we had at K&M studios, because Duff and Slash came to me going "We're not gonna do that song, we're not gonna do this song, nope, nope, we're just not gonna do it." But I wanna do it. We'll do it right now. This song is called 'patience'." ~ Axl Rose, Pepsi Arena, Albany NY ?11/27/02

For starters, it's A&M studios where they recorded the UYI albums.? ?

Secondly, I have heard this before and I always found this quote to be strange.? the Illusions albums were recorded at A&M studios.? But then Axl throws "Patience" in there at the end.? "Patience" (along with the rest of the LIES album) was recorded at Rumbo studios, not A&M studios.

So Axl seems a bit confused there with what he's talking about.? If he had done one of the ILLUSIONS songs after that rant, it would've been consistent, but it was odd that he threw "Patience" in there.? And you quoted Axl precisely, so we're not taking it out of context here, he claimed they had an argument at A&M studios about songs that Slash and Duff supposedly didn't want to do then says he was going to play one right then and it was "Patience".? Hmmm...

Also, I remember reading a statement from Slash (way back when, like 1991 or something) where he said he liked "Patience".? Maybe Duff didn't, I don't know.? And it's strange Axl got so upset about that song anyway since it was written primarily by Izzy.

And to follow suit, I will also get right to the point.

In your initial post, you described the comment by Mr. Weitzman crediting Axl as the catalyst behind the band's creative sucess as 'condescending'.
And then questioned whether Mr. Weitzman was relating this of his own opinion, or if he was actually passing on a dig by Axl to his former bandmates ... a dig that Axl might not have the balls to relate himself.)
 ?
I cited the above quote, along with others, to demonstrate all that Axl has actually had the bals to say himself. ?

I addressed your question about how I could consider there to be any difference between the statements released to the press by Mr. Weitzman and the allegations reported to be cited in Slash and Duff's lawsuit in this regard. ?

Those were the only points I was trying to get across.

My citing "K&M" instead of "A&M"in error, I'm sure you'll agree is irrelevant to that point.
As well as is Axls apparent lumping together different exchanges regarding the same topic in one rant.

I didn't address the questions raised in your post to 'debate' with you. ?You seemed to be really be considering different options and to be wondering about some issues... and I enjoyed sharing my impression and understanding with you... and obviously anyone else interested in the topic. ?

Cheers and goodnight. ?

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

now back on topic....?

Sp1at reports:? "Asked for his opinions on the case, Weitzman told us, "I am not certain as yet but I am hopeful this lawsuit will be dismissed by Slash and Duff against Axl."

[jarmo]

Just a reminder to certain people, we still have rules.




/jarmo

[jabba2]

Well i hit on AxlRossette too. Shes a looker and since Axl hasnt made a move...why not. Now back to the lawsuit: We still need to find out what happened to the money that D&S didnt yet receive. This is a federal lawsuit so they must have some reason to believe there is intent of fraud. Not saying Axl's guilty because that will be decided in court.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Booker you really dont make yourself look good when you claim slash and duff dont talk shit about Axl and have not over the past 10 years.

Then I suppose you make yourself look worse when you cant give a list of examples to back up the point your making.

I am not even going to quote

 

Of course youre not.? Slash does nothing but lie, but you cant name any lies.? He does nothing but "talk shit" about Axl and you dont give any examples.? So dont worry about I look...

Booker, after reading the last 4 or 5 posts, is that enough now for you to believe that Slash constantly attacks Axl and takes no responsibility in the matter?

Booker will NEVER do this since he thinks slash is a saint and Axl is the anti christ. We have given him quotes in other threads about slash lying , changing his story and bad mouthing axl yet in every new thead he wants those same quotes over and over again. Its not even worth it since he claims to have such a short memory span and always wants the quotes. I really need to just put them all in one thread and ask a mod to make it a sticky.

[Bridge]

We have given him quotes in other threads about slash lying , changing his story and bad mouthing axl yet in every new thead he wants those same quotes over and over again. Its not even worth it since he claims to have such a short memory span and always wants the quotes. I really need to just put them all in one thread and ask a mod to make it a sticky.

Dude, how about maybe putting them in this thread?

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=22251.0

[ppbebe]

As far as these lawsuits go, I really don't give a shit one way or the other.  It is millionaires hammering out their differences over more money, who cares? 

I do think that it seems like Axl wrote that last statement and gave it to his lawyer to release.  I mean, the whole tone of it is just so paranoid, "anti-Axl propaganda"?, a tad on the dramatic side.  The whole thing just seems so full of personal venom. 

I don't know if I believe the "clerical error" bit, seems a bit contrived.  Although I don't know what S&D's chances are, one thing that Axl has always schooled himself on is legal issues, he's been lawyer happy for years and years.  So it's hard to believe that he would do these things if he wasn't certain that he would get away with it. 

I do believe the "clerical error" bit.

My thought had some parallels with yours when I first learnt of their complaint.
No one is such an idiot as to nick the money of the very opponent party in a pending lawsuit openly(yes wouldn't it be too obvious as if hes saying "please catch me redhanded! "?), lets alone "lawyer happy" Axl.
A trap? even if it was a trap, it'd be a lawyer's business. I can hardly imagine a man of brains, being "lawyer happy" n having the brains like Kobalt n Mr. Weitzman, would dare try his layman's tactics. And an expert would never take a risky course without confidence in their victory. So I thought it must have been either an error or a legal tactic.

Now it appears that it wasn't a trap that Axl's party set for the other party. On comparing those two statements from Mr, Weitzman, I sense the complaint took Axl's side unawares. 

Also I differ from you as to your second paragraph for the reason I posted earlier. Looking at it impartially, I must say the fanatic Axl-bashings verge on abnormality.