Slash, Duff Sue Axl Over Guns N' Roses Publishing Royalties

[killingvector]

Edit from previous post to say that if Axl got his share of the back catelogue from Sanctuary back then he set up Black Frog and Kobalt?

Kobalt is a royalty collection service with a diverse clientele. They are responsible for distributing the monies to their clients and are known as both an efficient and meticulous collector of publication and authored royalites. Axl Rose is listed as a client of Kobalt; GnR and Slash & Duff are not. There is a possibility Axl was trying to collect royalties individually as opposed to as part of a single GnR entity and something was screwed up in the process. Who knows.

But since they are named in the suit, I find it hard to believe they would get sucked into an obvious attempt by Axl to defraud his partners. I would need to see more evidence that it was a deliberate act because at face value, it makes no sense.

[jabba2]

If Kobalt didnt stop Axl from getting in the way of D&S royalties, then they should be held responsible. And thats why they are named in the suit. S&D are basically telling Kobalt "You had a chance to clear this up. And now you know what could happen the second time Axl might try this".

All the people mentioning the GNR name as being involved in the lawsuit, it isnt true. Though i wish Axl could come up with another name, because current GNR clearly isnt working. Its all about the past with that band...including Axl.?

[killingvector]

If Kobalt didnt stop Axl from getting in the way of D&S royalties, then they should be held responsible. And thats why they are named in the suit.

All the people mentioning the GNR name as being involved in the lawsuit, it isnt true. Though i wish Axl could come up with another name, because current GNR clearly isnt working. Its all about the past with that band...including Axl. 

Which is precisely the reason why companies like this protect themselves from obvious attempts to commit fraud. I find it hard to believe Kobalt would sign up for this deal without investigating the nature of axl's contract. their legal team would be all over it.

[jabba2]

Now Kobalts legal team is forced to be all over this. Though it is possible Axl snuck this under there noses.

[dolphin]

If Axl received Slash and Duff's royalties and CASHED them............then yeah, I say it's fraud.


But that isn't the case because we have no idea since we just know of Slash and Duff's side.

I highly doubt Axl would do something as to purposedly fraud Slash and Duff.? And I would think knowing that Axl is involved or has been involved in a lot of legal proceedings, whoever takes him on as a client sure as fuck crosses all their t's and dots all their i's.

I still say that this is all an attempt by Slash and Duff to further delay Axl in moving forward with anything new with GNR because THEY can't let go of the past.............just go to a VR show and you'll see VR is their version of GNR.

And if I was missing a check for $92,000, I sure as fuck wouldn't have waited this long to "look into it".

[Bridge]

Sad, ain't it? A group of guys come up from the streets together, change rock and roll forever, fade away, and spend the rest of their days suing each other.

Not very rock and roll at all.

on the contrary, that seems to be the EXACT definition of rock n roll

[erose]

Sad, ain't it? A group of guys come up from the streets together, change rock and roll forever, fade away, and spend the rest of their days suing each other.

Not very rock and roll at all.

on the contrary, that seems to be the EXACT definition of rock n roll

The Perils Of Rock N' Roll Decadence.

[blasphemer]

They forgot to put the sueing part in the song.

[YouCouldBeMine]

Hello Kids! 

Todays word is S-N-A-F-U.

Say it with me, SNAFU!

Just like, "This situation in the Guns N' Roses camp is SNAFU."

[KillYourIdols]

I think that Pilferk's idea makes the most sense. More than likely some legal strongarm tactics having to do with the previous lawsuit. It proves perfectly, as some people have already stated, that Axl can't be "out of the partnership" as Slash and Duff claim, since he apparantly has the power to cut off royalty checks to them. Actually, it seems, the more I look at it, to be a shrewd (if not assholish) legal move.

It kind of negates their previous lawsuit, no?

~KYI

[marknroses]

heres my two cents.
When it comes to music business - Slash & Duff are NOT fucking idiots. They have both been in this industry for many years, not only with GNR, but also doing solo projects, guest-starring and co-writing on other musicians' projects and albums and now with VR. They expanded their enterprise a lot further than Axl ever did, since Axl has only stayed with one entitty and that is GNR (VR  was a pretty complicated task for Duff & Slash since it involved bringing in a frontman who had just recently quit a multi-platinum band called STP and it involved a level of promotion, sales & marketing not seen to them since GNR. This is not to say that Axl is an idiot, unfortunately he is a clever, control-minded, manipulative person, who gets his ways in goods ways and bad, and we the fans pay for it every time). GNR is like Axl's fortress and he's become the master of its domain, while Slash & Duff have had to build other "fortresses", maybe not as big, but certainly with the same result when it came to all the mumbo-jumbo of music industry economical lingo. Their signing away of the GNR name had less to do with them being idiots on drugs, and a lot more about caring for the fans and touring behind the UYI records between 1991-1993.

Slash also grew up in the music industry. He has talked about how he watched deals go down growing up in his house and attending music industry parties and how it taught him the business-side of the industry. He didn't just come from the streets.

And didn't Duff talk about opening up a class at one point for musical artists to attend and learn about how to deal with the business aspects. He has taken business courses in college, he has learned from his experiences with Ten Minute Warning, his solo projects and VR, and also from mingling with other musicians and knows how the music industry can fuck over musicians.

It amazes me to see how people could still pigeonhole Duff McKagan & Slash in their drunkin;, drug-induced 1980's-1990's hey-days. At least they still got heads on their shoulders and have had post-GNR success, which says a hell of a lot more than the member who currently runs GNR.

I wish Slash & Duff all the luck in taking back what they rightfully earned FOR US FANS, which is a GNR catalog of great songs we can listen to every day - they get the credit in my book.
 
MNR

[killingvector]

heres my two cents.
When it comes to music business - Slash & Duff are NOT fucking idiots. They have both been in this industry for many years, not only with GNR, but also doing solo projects, guest-starring and co-writing on other musicians' projects and albums and now with VR. They expanded their enterprise a lot further than Axl ever did, since Axl has only stayed with one entitty and that is GNR (VR  was a pretty complicated task for Duff & Slash since it involved bringing in a frontman who had just recently quit a multi-platinum band called STP and it involved a level of promotion, sales & marketing not seen to them since GNR. This is not to say that Axl is an idiot, unfortunately he is a clever, control-minded, manipulative person, who gets his ways in goods ways and bad, and we the fans pay for it every time). GNR is like Axl's fortress and he's become the master of its domain, while Slash & Duff have had to build other "fortresses", maybe not as big, but certainly with the same result when it came to all the mumbo-jumbo of music industry economical lingo. Their signing away of the GNR name had less to do with them being idiots on drugs, and a lot more about caring for the fans and touring behind the UYI records between 1991-1993.

Slash also grew up in the music industry. He has talked about how he watched deals go down growing up in his house and attending music industry parties and how it taught him the business-side of the industry. He didn't just come from the streets.

And didn't Duff talk about opening up a class at one point for musical artists to attend and learn about how to deal with the business aspects. He has taken business courses in college, he has learned from his experiences with Ten Minute Warning, his solo projects and VR, and also from mingling with other musicians and knows how the music industry can fuck over musicians.

It amazes me to see how people could still pigeonhole Duff McKagan & Slash in their drunkin;, drug-induced 1980's-1990's hey-days. At least they still got heads on their shoulders and have had post-GNR success, which says a hell of a lot more than the member who currently runs GNR.

I wish Slash & Duff all the luck in taking back what they rightfully earned FOR US FANS, which is a GNR catalog of great songs we can listen to every day - they get the credit in my book.
 
MNR

Wow you must have intimate knowledge of both lawsuits to know for a fact what belongs to who. Most likely the publication rights and ownership of the back catalog belongs to all three of them. It never belonged to us; we are merely allowed the privilege to enjoy the spoils of said ownership.

I think you also downplay the vindictiveness of Slash and Duff. Feeling cheated from the naive loss of the bands name to Axl, they are trying to get as much power over the old band's material as they can. Do they have a case? No one knows. Certainly no one here. Certainly not you. As far as we know the partnership is three men; three men who can't get along now or probably ever. Out of the partnership, only one person has had the business sense to maintain his stake in the band, new and old; two of the members made perhaps the dumbest deal in music over the last 20 years. It sucks and I feel bad for them, but I also understand how much it probably stings them to see Axl in control of the name. The losers in this mess are of course the fans who now will not hear GnR in any cool movies for a long while and certainly will not hear the new record in the time frame that would have existed before these lawsuits.

As for post GnR success, Axl's fate has not yet been written. I would reserve judgement until the fate of Chinese Democracy is determined.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

heres my two cents.
When it comes to music business - Slash & Duff are NOT fucking idiots. They have both been in this industry for many years, not only with GNR, but also doing solo projects, guest-starring and co-writing on other musicians' projects and albums and now with VR. They expanded their enterprise a lot further than Axl ever did, since Axl has only stayed with one entitty and that is GNR (VR? was a pretty complicated task for Duff & Slash since it involved bringing in a frontman who had just recently quit a multi-platinum band called STP and it involved a level of promotion, sales & marketing not seen to them since GNR. This is not to say that Axl is an idiot, unfortunately he is a clever, control-minded, manipulative person, who gets his ways in goods ways and bad, and we the fans pay for it every time). GNR is like Axl's fortress and he's become the master of its domain, while Slash & Duff have had to build other "fortresses", maybe not as big, but certainly with the same result when it came to all the mumbo-jumbo of music industry economical lingo. Their signing away of the GNR name had less to do with them being idiots on drugs, and a lot more about caring for the fans and touring behind the UYI records between 1991-1993.

Slash also grew up in the music industry. He has talked about how he watched deals go down growing up in his house and attending music industry parties and how it taught him the business-side of the industry. He didn't just come from the streets.

And didn't Duff talk about opening up a class at one point for musical artists to attend and learn about how to deal with the business aspects. He has taken business courses in college, he has learned from his experiences with Ten Minute Warning, his solo projects and VR, and also from mingling with other musicians and knows how the music industry can fuck over musicians.

It amazes me to see how people could still pigeonhole Duff McKagan & Slash in their drunkin;, drug-induced 1980's-1990's hey-days. At least they still got heads on their shoulders and have had post-GNR success, which says a hell of a lot more than the member who currently runs GNR.

I wish Slash & Duff all the luck in taking back what they rightfully earned FOR US FANS, which is a GNR catalog of great songs we can listen to every day - they get the credit in my book.
 
MNR

Here is my three cents. Axl is not an idiot either. You really think he would? be that dumb to screw slash and duff out of royaltiest? Like I said wait until you hear Axls side (something I know you never like doing).? Also, like I said? before, this whole case and that renewal of the copyright PROVES that axl still is in the partnership. So what do you have to say about that? They renewed it in 2003 so they were not high or drunk in those years so they have no leg to stand on in that case now do they?

 Also, that company kobalt have lawyers and would not be dumb to cover all the bases and try and screw slash and duff out of their royalties so they can only get sued.

Its really sad that? you have no clue. Also I am sure you would love for guns n roses to sell out, and use WTTJ or PC is some stupid snapple or car commercial.? I think that is so lame when bands do that.? I am glad you want slash and duff to sell out the guns n roses name something they quit so long ago.

The thing is, this new case could pretty much wipe out the case in Nov since this case proves Axl is still in the partnership.
Slash and Duff cannot please incompetence this time since they renewed the partnership pretty much in 2003 for the back catalog.

[Jessica]

( wonders if suing, for both parts, is not going to cost them that 92.000 dollars...................)

[jazjme]

Ive sat here,( that is when Im not out takig care of my own shit and life). the last few days reading this and saying to myself, WOW, DAMN,WTF.



But I also know Im not a lawyer, nor a person that watches Court Tv and such. BUT I know Im pretty intelligent. Alot of this reminds me of Monday morning armchair Quarterbacks and , (those in America) may know what Im talkin about. 

There is alot of shit goin on, no doubt, but from someone who lived through and had to basically fight for my own survival in the court system, when all that anyone heard was "the other side" the one that charged me . And Me just this guy , at the time 22 taking on a fucking county and won , I definitly want to hear all sides of this, this law suit is about money, my trial was about manslaughter, with my car, and when all was said and done, it was the counties fault, the police, not mine for the accident, but ,I always knew that but took alot of strength for me to get on the stand and tell my side. I didnt have high power attorneys only what my parents could afford, but I had was the truth. Even though someone I loved was killed .

So to me this is more like bullshit, till we know all , but I guess all here would be so inclined to watch this as if it was the OJ trial.

Me fuck yer I want to know whats up, but  in the end , its not gonna matter. CD will come out eventually, what happens in the trial or settlement will be reveiled and at the end of the day, we all go on . Or I would hope.


Still , as we are all human and gravitate to things that interest us, lets really save judgements for the court.

[greekmule]

( wonders if suing, for both parts, is not going to cost them that 92.000 dollars...................)

i don't think this lawsuit has anything to do with the 92.000 dollars

on the contrary i think it has a lot to do with the other lawsuit

[shaun]

This gonna delay CD even more 

[michaelvincent]

This gonna delay CD even more

Chinese Democracy starts.....ah fuck it.

[michaelvincent]

I am glad you want slash and duff to sell out the guns n roses name something they quit so long ago.

It has nothing to do with that all. It's about not getting paid for something they completely and rightfully deserve to be paid for. Whether it was Axl, Sanctuary, or whoever that was behind the mistake/fraud/oversight/whateverthefuckhappened.

Like most of what goes on in the GnR world, we don't know for sure, but spend an awful lot of time here arguing about it.

[Shoco]

if slash and duff did sign over theyr right in 92, and were under the influence of drugs then that is not a valid contract

a valid contract MUST include the following

1. an offer
2. acceptance
3. consideration
4. intention to create legal relations
5. CAPACITY TO CONTRACT
6. genuine consent to all terms by the parties to the contract
7. contract must be legal and capable of performance


f a person is insane or intoxicated when entering into a contract the contract is viodable if it can be shown:

1 - the person at the time was incapable of understanding the nature of the contract
2 - the other person knew or ought to have known of this disability


another thing to note is:

it is presumed by law that parties enter into a contract voluntarily and WITHOUT DURESS AND INDUE INFLUENCE. if present the contract is void

they are some of the rules in Irish law for a valid contract, which to me shows that when S and D signed over the rights to axl the contract was not legal