Slash, Duff Sue Axl Over Guns N' Roses Publishing Royalties

[chineseblues]

There was probaly just some mix up when the checks were getting sent out.

Axl has a prayer with this one as long as Axl can prove it was a mix up and that is why he got the check for slash and duff too. Its really simple that it could have been a clarical error.  We will have to wait and see on this one.

This is not a "clerical error".  If that were the case, there would have been no need to file the lawsuit.  I'm pretty sure they did a thorough investigation before they proceeded with this lawsuit.

How could they do a thurough investigation when they only found out about it last week? 

[killingvector]

There was probaly just some mix up when the checks were getting sent out.

Axl has a prayer with this one as long as Axl can prove it was a mix up and that is why he got the check for slash and duff too. Its really simple that it could have been a clarical error.  We will have to wait and see on this one.

This is not a "clerical error".  If that were the case, there would have been no need to file the lawsuit.  I'm pretty sure they did a thorough investigation before they proceeded with this lawsuit.

The only clerical error I could see is an adminstrative delay in collecting the publication royalty as this was a recent transfer to Kobalt.

How could they do a thurough investigation when they only found out about it last week? 

[michaelvincent]

I'm sure they have know that the accountants have been looking into this for some time. That's what accountants do. It probably wasn't until last week that they finally got to the bottom of what was going on.

Sheesh you people act like Axl, Slash and Duff just kind of let the mail pile up while they are on tour and then sort out the checks with an abacus when they get home. ?

[Naupis]

This whole saga should also serve as a public service announcement as to why band names are typically carried on by a lone surviving member.

All of this crap that has gotten in the way of an album release would have been a non-issue if it weren't for Axl's insistance on calling his band GNR. S&D know they are making his life difficult, and they will continue to do so and can because they are still tied to that band in one way shape or form as long as it is called GNR. If the new band were called the Blue Frogs, they would not be trying so hard to get at Axl. That is for certain.

[killingvector]

This whole saga should also serve as a public service announcement as to why band names are typically carried on by a lone surviving member.

All of this crap that has gotten in the way of an album release would have been a non-issue if it weren't for Axl's insistance on calling his band GNR. S&D know they are making his life difficult, and they will continue to do so and can because they are still tied to that band in one way shape or form as long as it is called GNR. If the new band were called the Blue Frogs, they would not be trying so hard to get at Axl. That is for certain.

I think this all goes back to the loss of the Gnr name. S and D have now turned GnR into a two headed beast: the old band (original partnership) and the new band (Axl) . They lost the name but are desperately trying to get control of the back catalog. All along both men said they regretted the deal and were looking for ways to recoup. I truly believe both of these suits spring from an enormous amount of regret over losing that name.

[Naupis]

think this all goes back to the loss of the Gnr name. S and D have now turned GnR into a two headed beast: the old band (original partnership) and the new band (Axl) . They lost the name but are desperately trying to get control of the back catalog. All along both men said they regretted the deal and were looking for ways to recoup. I truly believe both of these suits spring from an enormous amount of regret over losing that name.

It absolutely does. Axl's problem is that he is still too intertwined with them to ever do some of the things he wants to do with GNR and everything that goes with it. That is why I have no sympathy for him in regards to this whole saga. He knew by calling his band that name he was inviting these types of problems.

Were S&D stupid to sign away the name, absolutely. In their defense though, I don't think they thought Axl would ever call a new band by that name even though he was the lone remaining member of the band.

[Axl4Prez2004]

 ?Guys and gals...how do you think the new hired Guns will take this news? ?I mean, if it's as bad as it looks at first glance, do you really want to be releasing an album with someone who may do this to you in the future? ?Maybe this deserves a new thread, I don't know, but damn, personally, I'd be pretty cautious if I were Robin, Tommy, Richard, or Brain. ?Any thoughts?

-Axl4Prez2004 ? ?(yeah, this news is embarrassing, and what's worse, is that Axl won't say anything in public) ?

[Fretzo]

Were they each supposed to get $92,000 or was the $92,000 supposed to be divided up between them?

[Thorazine Shuffle]

Axl I think is fucked.? I'm in kinda sucessful regional rock band and me and my bassist are the "leaders" I suppose of the group.? We handle our publishing issues through ASCAP.? every quarter we get a few bucks for our songs being played on the radio and other things.? We publish, my bassist and I, through our company, and the money is sent to the companies name through ASCAP.? We cash the check that is addressed to the company name into our company bank account.? Because the check is addressed to the company, not through us.? So, if I was to decide to be a dick, I could contact ASCAP, change our company to a company that I was the sole owner of, thereby screwing my bass player, and keeping the funds for myself.? I'm sure GNR is more complicated then our situation, but by Axl selling rights to Sanctuary, GNRs original publishing company is now non-existent, therefor, no money to S and D. Now, if I would to pull that shit, my bass player would, and should, sue the ever-loving fuck out of me and I probably would go to jail for fraud.?

The fact of the matter remains, S and D wrote the music and some lyric for those tunes and deserve the money.? If Axl did indeed intend to defraud those guys of there money, he deserve to be fucked monetarily.? If S and D did not get their money, it won't be because ASCAP or whoever screwed it up.? It'll be because of Axl.?

[mrsaxlrose]

There was probaly just some mix up when the checks were getting sent out.

Axl has a prayer with this one as long as Axl can prove it was a mix up and that is why he got the check for slash and duff too. Its really simple that it could have been a clarical error.? We will have to wait and see on this one.

This is not a "clerical error".? If that were the case, there would have been no need to file the lawsuit.? I'm pretty sure they did a thorough investigation before they proceeded with this lawsuit.

How could they do a thurough investigation when they only found out about it last week??

because good lawyers make sure there isn't an error before proceeding with a lawsuit.  I'm pretty sure they checked out for any clerical errors

[killingvector]

Axl I think is fucked.  I'm in kinda sucessful regional rock band and me and my bassist are the "leaders" I suppose of the group.  We handle our publishing issues through ASCAP.  every quarter we get a few bucks for our songs being played on the radio and other things.  We publish, my bassist and I, through our company, and the money is sent to the companies name through ASCAP.  We cash the check that is addressed to the company name into our company bank account.  Because the check is addressed to the company, not through us.  So, if I was to decide to be a dick, I could contact ASCAP, change our company to a company that I was the sole owner of, thereby screwing my bass player, and keeping the funds for myself.  I'm sure GNR is more complicated then our situation, but by Axl selling rights to Sanctuary, GNRs original publishing company is now non-existent, therefor, no money to S and D. Now, if I would to pull that shit, my bass player would, and should, sue the ever-loving fuck out of me and I probably would go to jail for fraud. 

The fact of the matter remains, S and D wrote the music and some lyric for those tunes and deserve the money.  If Axl did indeed intend to defraud those guys of there money, he deserve to be fucked monetarily.  If S and D did not get their money, it won't be because ASCAP or whoever screwed it up.  It'll be because of Axl. 

Is it possible to break up the publishing so that separate checks were written for Axl and Slash & Duff?

[Thorazine Shuffle]

Axl I think is fucked.? I'm in kinda sucessful regional rock band and me and my bassist are the "leaders" I suppose of the group.? We handle our publishing issues through ASCAP.? every quarter we get a few bucks for our songs being played on the radio and other things.? We publish, my bassist and I, through our company, and the money is sent to the companies name through ASCAP.? We cash the check that is addressed to the company name into our company bank account.? Because the check is addressed to the company, not through us.? So, if I was to decide to be a dick, I could contact ASCAP, change our company to a company that I was the sole owner of, thereby screwing my bass player, and keeping the funds for myself.? I'm sure GNR is more complicated then our situation, but by Axl selling rights to Sanctuary, GNRs original publishing company is now non-existent, therefor, no money to S and D. Now, if I would to pull that shit, my bass player would, and should, sue the ever-loving fuck out of me and I probably would go to jail for fraud.?

The fact of the matter remains, S and D wrote the music and some lyric for those tunes and deserve the money.? If Axl did indeed intend to defraud those guys of there money, he deserve to be fucked monetarily.? If S and D did not get their money, it won't be because ASCAP or whoever screwed it up.? It'll be because of Axl.?

Is it possible to break up the publishing so that separate checks were written for Axl and Slash & Duff?

Its obvious that the three of them are a partnership, not a corporation, how Axl pulled this off is beyond me.? Our situation is an easy way of me screwing my bassist, since I am the one that started our publishing company.? That still doesnt mean that its legal.? The money has been seperated to the 3 of them for the past 20 years. The fact that S and D are not getting their money is not an "error", ASCAP does a great job of getting their clients their money.? Thats the reason they are the best and everyone uses them. They issue the funds to the proper company that the three of them set up years ago.? They are a non-profit organization.? No, someone has been very naughty, and it isn't S and D.

[killingvector]

Axl I think is fucked.  I'm in kinda sucessful regional rock band and me and my bassist are the "leaders" I suppose of the group.  We handle our publishing issues through ASCAP.  every quarter we get a few bucks for our songs being played on the radio and other things.  We publish, my bassist and I, through our company, and the money is sent to the companies name through ASCAP.  We cash the check that is addressed to the company name into our company bank account.  Because the check is addressed to the company, not through us.  So, if I was to decide to be a dick, I could contact ASCAP, change our company to a company that I was the sole owner of, thereby screwing my bass player, and keeping the funds for myself.  I'm sure GNR is more complicated then our situation, but by Axl selling rights to Sanctuary, GNRs original publishing company is now non-existent, therefor, no money to S and D. Now, if I would to pull that shit, my bass player would, and should, sue the ever-loving fuck out of me and I probably would go to jail for fraud. 

The fact of the matter remains, S and D wrote the music and some lyric for those tunes and deserve the money.  If Axl did indeed intend to defraud those guys of there money, he deserve to be fucked monetarily.  If S and D did not get their money, it won't be because ASCAP or whoever screwed it up.  It'll be because of Axl. 

Is it possible to break up the publishing so that separate checks were written for Axl and Slash & Duff?

Its obvious that the three of them are a partnership, not a corporation, how Axl pulled this off is beyond me.  Our situation is an easy way of me screwing my bassist, since I am the one that started our publishing company.  That still doesnt mean that its legal.  The money has been seperated to the 3 of them for the past 20 years. The fact that S and D are not getting their money is not an "error", ASCAP does a great job of getting their clients their money.  Thats the reason they are the best and everyone uses them. They issue the funds to the proper company that the three of them set up years ago.  They are a non-profit organization.  No, someone has been very naughty, and it isn't S and D.

S and D are suing Kobalt too, an established and respected royalty collection company. I would doubt they would fall for such a bait and switch tactic by Axl. Obviously, they are now forced to defend themselves.

[Thorazine Shuffle]

Axl I think is fucked.? I'm in kinda sucessful regional rock band and me and my bassist are the "leaders" I suppose of the group.? We handle our publishing issues through ASCAP.? every quarter we get a few bucks for our songs being played on the radio and other things.? We publish, my bassist and I, through our company, and the money is sent to the companies name through ASCAP.? We cash the check that is addressed to the company name into our company bank account.? Because the check is addressed to the company, not through us.? So, if I was to decide to be a dick, I could contact ASCAP, change our company to a company that I was the sole owner of, thereby screwing my bass player, and keeping the funds for myself.? I'm sure GNR is more complicated then our situation, but by Axl selling rights to Sanctuary, GNRs original publishing company is now non-existent, therefor, no money to S and D. Now, if I would to pull that shit, my bass player would, and should, sue the ever-loving fuck out of me and I probably would go to jail for fraud.?

The fact of the matter remains, S and D wrote the music and some lyric for those tunes and deserve the money.? If Axl did indeed intend to defraud those guys of there money, he deserve to be fucked monetarily.? If S and D did not get their money, it won't be because ASCAP or whoever screwed it up.? It'll be because of Axl.?

Is it possible to break up the publishing so that separate checks were written for Axl and Slash & Duff?

Its obvious that the three of them are a partnership, not a corporation, how Axl pulled this off is beyond me.? Our situation is an easy way of me screwing my bassist, since I am the one that started our publishing company.? That still doesnt mean that its legal.? The money has been seperated to the 3 of them for the past 20 years. The fact that S and D are not getting their money is not an "error", ASCAP does a great job of getting their clients their money.? Thats the reason they are the best and everyone uses them. They issue the funds to the proper company that the three of them set up years ago.? They are a non-profit organization.? No, someone has been very naughty, and it isn't S and D.

S and D are suing Kobalt too, an established and respected royalty collection company. I would doubt they would fall for such a bait and switch tactic by Axl. Obviously, they are now forced to defend themselves.

Thats where it gets complicated for me, I'm not signed, yet, to a label so i don't have to deal with all of this stuff.? Fact of the matter is, publishing is where the money is.?  One of the first rules to getting signed is trying to keep your copyrights, and more importantly, the publishing. If you don't do that, you will NEVER make any money in music.  Youll be a whore who only makes money for the record label. ? Thats the bulk of your money.? If Slash and Duff or no longer getting their pay, then something is very fucked-up.? And good luck to S and D on getting their money back.

[D]

Yo Thorazine, dont let your bassist read this



Have any of u read the lawsuit over?

Duff and Slash are also charging Axl of transferring the publishing from ASCAP to the new one which violates Slash and Duff's intellectual property.

So Axl cant just sell his share of the publishing because the publishing is a whole


Axl gets his cut, Slash and Duff get their cuts but Axl got not only his share but Slash and Duff's share as well.

Axl cannot sell anything to do with the catalog without approval from Slash and Duff and vice versa which is the original lawsuit.

So Axl couldnot have sold to sanctuary without the approval of Slash and Duff.

maybe Slash and Duff said nothing when it first happened cause maybe they didnt know how it worked and thought Axl sold just his share but when their checks didnt come, they then realized he sold the entire share without their approval.

If Duff and SLash didnt get their first Quarter check, u can guarantee they also didnt get their second quarter check either since they wouldve already.

Axl is in serious fucking trouble from the looks of this. I dont like it anymore than any other Axl loyalist but I just cant spin this positively for Axl.

[Thorazine Shuffle]

Yo Thorazine, dont let your bassist read this



Have any of u read the lawsuit over?

Duff and Slash are also charging Axl of transferring the publishing from ASCAP to the new one which violates Slash and Duff's intellectual property.

So Axl cant just sell his share of the publishing because the publishing is a whole


Axl gets his cut, Slash and Duff get their cuts but Axl got not only his share but Slash and Duff's share as well.

Axl cannot sell anything to do with the catalog without approval from Slash and Duff and vice versa which is the original lawsuit.

So Axl couldnot have sold to sanctuary without the approval of Slash and Duff.

maybe Slash and Duff said nothing when it first happened cause maybe they didnt know how it worked and thought Axl sold just his share but when their checks didnt come, they then realized he sold the entire share without their approval.

If Duff and SLash didnt get their first Quarter check, u can guarantee they also didnt get their second quarter check either since they wouldve already.

Axl is in serious fucking trouble from the looks of this. I dont like it anymore than any other Axl loyalist but I just cant spin this positively for Axl.

Well, thanks for the synopsis.  and I guess in a nutshell thats what i was trying to explain and I agree with you 100%  Its sound like what Axl has done is illegal and as much as I respect Axl, this is about as bad as you can screw your old bandmates.  the publishing are S and D's "lifeline" and I don't think even God can help Axl right now.  Yea I won't show this to my bass player, If we ever get signed that fucker might pull this shit on me!

[killingvector]

Yo Thorazine, dont let your bassist read this



Have any of u read the lawsuit over?

Duff and Slash are also charging Axl of transferring the publishing from ASCAP to the new one which violates Slash and Duff's intellectual property.

So Axl cant just sell his share of the publishing because the publishing is a whole


Axl gets his cut, Slash and Duff get their cuts but Axl got not only his share but Slash and Duff's share as well.

Axl cannot sell anything to do with the catalog without approval from Slash and Duff and vice versa which is the original lawsuit.

So Axl couldnot have sold to sanctuary without the approval of Slash and Duff.

maybe Slash and Duff said nothing when it first happened cause maybe they didnt know how it worked and thought Axl sold just his share but when their checks didnt come, they then realized he sold the entire share without their approval.

If Duff and SLash didnt get their first Quarter check, u can guarantee they also didnt get their second quarter check either since they wouldve already.

Axl is in serious fucking trouble from the looks of this. I dont like it anymore than any other Axl loyalist but I just cant spin this positively for Axl.

what a lawyer you are, having decided the case without ever seeing the evidence for and against the claim. For all we know, S and D did receive their checks and are pulling a legal strongarm tactic. It has been done before. As for your theory, I doubt very much you or anyone else have the slightest clue about the nature or merit of the arguments in this case. I would suggest you to reserve judgement until you hear more.

[ppbebe]

Maybe their claim have woken up a sleeping dog. or two.
That "Axl left the partnership" letter could have another meaning that would reverse the previous assumption. If so, S n D's little attempt to produce any corroborative data advantageous to the main complaint boomerangs.

Office: Western Division - Los Angeles
Filed: 08/17/2005
Jury Demand: Plaintiff
Demand:
Nature of Suit: 820
Cause: 17:0101 Copyright Infringement
Jurisdiction: Federal Question
Disposition:
County: Los Angeles
Terminated:
Origin: 1
Reopened:

Lead Case: None
Related Case: None Other Court Case: None
Def Custody Status:
Flags: (PLAx), AO279, DISCOVERY

Plaintiff Saul Hudson represented by Tiffany Hofeldt Phone: 310-788-4400

Plaintiff Saul Hudson represented by Glendon W Miskel Phone: 415-332-0222

Plaintiff Saul Hudson represented by Zia F Modabber Phone: 310-788-4400

Plaintiff Saul Hudson represented by Joel R Weiner Phone: 310-788-4400
Email: joel.weiner@kmzr.com

Plaintiff Michael McKagan represented by Tiffany Hofeldt Phone: 310-788-4400

Plaintiff Michael McKagan represented by Glendon W Miskel Phone: 415-332-0222

Plaintiff Michael McKagan represented by Zia F Modabber Phone: 310-788-4400

Plaintiff Michael McKagan represented by Joel R Weiner Phone: 310-788-4400
Email: joel.weiner@kmzr.com

Plaintiff Guns N Roses represented by Tiffany Hofeldt Phone: 310-788-4400

Plaintiff Guns N Roses represented by Glendon W Miskel Phone: 415-332-0222

Plaintiff Guns N Roses represented by Zia F Modabber Phone: 310-788-4400

Plaintiff Guns N Roses represented by Joel R Weiner Phone: 310-788-4400
Email: joel.weiner@kmzr.com

Defendant William Bailey
Defendant Black Frog Music
Defendant Kobalt Music Publishing America Inc
Defendant Kobalt Music Services America Inc
Defendant Kobalt Songs Music Publishing
Defendant Does

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


08/17/2005 1 COMPLAINT against defendants William Bailey, Black Frog Music, Kobalt Music Publishing America Inc, Kobalt Music Services America Inc, Kobalt Songs Music Publishing.(Filing fee $ 250) Jury Demanded. , filed by plaintiffs Guns N Roses, Saul Hudson, Michael McKagan.(rrey, ) (Entered: 08/19/2005)

08/17/2005 20 Day Summons Issued re Complaint - (Discovery)[1] as to William Bailey, Black Frog Music, Kobalt Music Publishing America Inc, Kobalt Music Services America Inc, Kobalt Songs Music Publishing. (rrey, ) (Entered: 08/19/2005)

08/17/2005 2 CERTIFICATION AND NOTICE of Interested Parties filed by Plaintiffs Guns N Roses, Saul Hudson, Michael McKagan. (rrey, ) (Entered: 08/19/2005)

-------------------------------------------------

As you can see Slash and Duff are suing under the gnr name. Now as we all know Axl owns the name, so why are try suing under it?

Also, why "William Bailey" this time?

Like other people said, Perhaps with Guns n' roses they mean the partnership in this case.
they are suing Black frog music and Kobalt on behalf of the GN'R partnership that consists of them and Axl as Axl, I guess. While William Bailey stands for Axl of black frog music?

Sorry if someone already mentioned this and that.

[dolphin]

I don't understand something.

Okay, Axl sold HIS share of the back catelogue to Sanctuary.

So, if there are any decisions to be made, it's between Sanctuary, Duff, Slash.

So if Sanctuary is on the verge of going bankrupt, and Axl sold his share of the publishing to Sanctuary, why would he create a dummy company?

Could the sanctuary deal already be null and void.............and we just don't know it is? ?Maybe because of the $$ problems with Sanctuary, there was a clause that stated Axl would have full ownership if Sanctuary ever went under?

I am confused

I can see why Axl would put money in escrow like Pilferk suggested.............and not pay anyone until all this is settled........kinda like hold it in ransom to fuck with Slash and Duff..........but I won't believe Axl is purposedly frauding them. ?That is ridiculous. ?

I am sure Axl has all his legal options covered and for him to remain silent is really the best because he'll never reveal his next move so it's like he's playing checkmate.

Where does ASCAP fit in with Sanctuary?

[dolphin]

Edit from previous post to say that if Axl got his share of the back catelogue from Sanctuary back then he set up Black Frog and Kobalt?