Slash The Liar?

[makane]

dave-gnfnr2k, maybe you should try to get another point of view sometimes, i haven't read you writing anything positive about other original members, except Axl, as this still is a GUNS N' ROSES fansite.

[coolman78SLASH]

So did anyone find the proof or what ?
I remember being a fan in 88,89,90,91,92,93,94 and 1995, and I would never imagine somebody calling themselves GnR fans talk so much shit about Slash,Duff,Matt,Steven and Izzy, and/or Axl as I've seen here.. Guess I was naive,young and stupid? C'mon people, what have become of us so-called fans. Are we reduced to blood-thirsty animals who want to rip the band members of one of the coolest groupes in the 80's and 90's apart? In my book, anyone who talk with so much disrespect about Slash, Duff, Izzy or Axl as some of you in this thresd have, are not really fans of GnR. You are making this in to a war between old and new versions of GnR, and that sucks big-time. You are like Bush: "Either you're with us, or against us". This is music, and you are turning this into a fucking soap-opera!! If someone of you said the shit about Slash infront of Axl between 85 to 96, he would smack you down, without further discussion..  I belive there is much love between the old guys and Axl, but pride and male testoron are making it so difficult to kiss and make up.. Most of the problems are contracts and shit, and to sort that shit out with lawyers and stuff are natural anyhow, whats the big deal? I've had companies, and old friends as partners or investors, and its normal to let lawyers take care of the legal hassle isen't it? Please people, try to give respect to all members of GnR. If you love NR, WTTJ, DC, PC, Coma, Hair of the Dog or any of the songs from AFD,LIES, UYI 1 and 2 , TSI? or Live erea, then you shouldent talk so much shit about the majority of members who made that happen? If you like the newer songs, and only them, talk as much shit as you want for all I care, but I cant stand the hipocricy among some of you guys.. You claim to be fans of GnR, but hate like 80% of the members who gave the masses knowledge about GnR? That's strange...   I dont think Slash are a liar anymore than Axl is, or Duff and so on and so on. I belive that sometimes they mess up a bit due to a human thing called memory,or the lack of it, or the media make up shit, or misunderstand them, sometimes they are misquoted, sometimes they get bored with the same fucking questions, or wants to fuck with,or joke with the reporter, sometimes they are forced to tell white lies, due to many things (legal shit, tactical shit or whatever), but I feel that most of the times Slash and Axl are honest guys who speak their minds when able to.

[makane]

coolman78SLASH, cool post. hope everyone reads it, even axl fanatics.(no, i don't hate Axl, I hate ignorant Axl fans)

[marknroses]

I know the quote or story that Dave constantly goes on about - I read it somewhere years ago - I have a feeling it was a Guitar World article or something similar. Ive never seen it posted here though.

The funny thing is, Slash merely claimed responsibility for assembling the backing band - he certainly didnt claim it was his idea to have the backing band. This is never mentioned when Dave and his ilk try and use this as some 'proof' of Slashs dishonesty.

Frankly I find it laughable that some of you insist that atrocious lack of judgement and taste was Slash's fault given his love of stripped back, toe to toe rock n roll. Clearly, it was Axls idea to implement this

Alot of people on this board go on and on about Axl bashing etc,. In all fairness, I think Slash is the one that gets constantly bashed. People that point out that Axl has been an ass are quite justified given the way Axl has behaved. However, the reasons put foward to try and belittle Slash are merely pathetic. My favourites are that Slash is a liar and he hasn't moved on since GNR? I mean the blatant hypocisy is just staggering in some cases. These same people overlook the fact that the current legal wranglings are merely about claiming what is rightfully theirs, but instead choose to believe the far fetched notion that Slash and Duff are somehow doing it sully Axls name in the media. Seriously guys, we all love Axl and know how great an entertainer he is - but get some perspective, put historical incidences in context.

AMEN
I endorse this position on the state of GNR.
BTW, Slash is less of liar than Axl is. That is the truth when it comes to the last 11 years of GNR history. I wish it was the opposite, because Axl is my hero, but I live on the memory of a glory that was lived by a kid in his early 20's who changed the world with his music and perspective, not the 30's-40's man stuck up in the mansion, being tended to by a "nanny".

If Axl has told the truth about anything, its that Slash is a "workaholic".
Thats why we've got this new VR board that kicks ass. Suckertrain Blues Rocks!!!

MNR

[killingvector]

I know the quote or story that Dave constantly goes on about - I read it somewhere years ago - I have a feeling it was a Guitar World article or something similar. Ive never seen it posted here though.

The funny thing is, Slash merely claimed responsibility for assembling the backing band - he certainly didnt claim it was his idea to have the backing band. This is never mentioned when Dave and his ilk try and use this as some 'proof' of Slashs dishonesty.

Frankly I find it laughable that some of you insist that atrocious lack of judgement and taste was Slash's fault given his love of stripped back, toe to toe rock n roll. Clearly, it was Axls idea to implement this

Alot of people on this board go on and on about Axl bashing etc,. In all fairness, I think Slash is the one that gets constantly bashed. People that point out that Axl has been an ass are quite justified given the way Axl has behaved. However, the reasons put foward to try and belittle Slash are merely pathetic. My favourites are that Slash is a liar and he hasn't moved on since GNR  I mean the blatant hypocisy is just staggering in some cases. These same people overlook the fact that the current legal wranglings are merely about claiming what is rightfully theirs, but instead choose to believe the far fetched notion that Slash and Duff are somehow doing it sully Axls name in the media. Seriously guys, we all love Axl and know how great an entertainer he is - but get some perspective, put historical incidences in context.

AMEN
I endorse this position on the state of GNR.
BTW, Slash is less of liar than Axl is. That is the truth when it comes to the last 11 years of GNR history. I wish it was the opposite, because Axl is my hero, but I live on the memory of a glory that was lived by a kid in his early 20's who changed the world with his music and perspective, not the 30's-40's man stuck up in the mansion, being tended to by a "nanny".

If Axl has told the truth about anything, its that Slash is a "workaholic".
Thats why we've got this new VR board that kicks ass. Suckertrain Blues Rocks!!!

MNR

umm, this VR board isn't very new. It's been around for a bit of time.

Workaholicism is good for lawyers, writers, scientists....but I expect my musicians to seek quality rather than quantity of work. I would wait another 5 years for an axl album if it promised to be out of this world.

Now you say Axl is a liar....care to back up that claim, mr. marknroses?

[GNRisSLASH]

I think 'lying' is a poor choice of words.  Dishonest or even better, "not upfront" better describes Axl.  He has not been upfront with his fans in years. I don't think either guys, Slash or Axl are liars.  But just look at Axl's track record:
-Claims he didn't know of a booked European tour and only discovered it on the net
-No shows for first show of 2002 tour but blames it on the arena, neglecting to tell people that he left LA waaaay to late to make the show on time
-No shows for Philly and is clearly not upfront with his fans. Has yet to issue an apology or statement. How can anyone, even you DaveGnFnr2k888, say this is being honest with your fans. 

It's not like these things happen once. It's over and over with him.  He simply isn't trustworthy or reliable.  A liar? No. Not exactly forthright or upfront? Absolutely.

[makane]

Killingvector, why don't you just leave this VR area of the forum, as you only have negative things to say about them. please.

[killingvector]

Killingvector, why don't you just leave this VR area of the forum, as you only have negative things to say about them. please.

So would the same fate await the Axl bashers who enter the GnR forum and call Axl a fraud and thief? who label him a cancer to the gnr name? Methinks you better see the full spectrum of posters in this forum before you accuse someone of having a bias.

SIG, Axl has not been dishonest or misleading regarding a release date for this record. He never promised a release at any point; he has even been upfront and honest when asked when the album will drop. See his comments ' Live your life' and "Soon isnt the world" comments. so once again, I ask, give me proof that Axl deliberately mislead the public on any issue GnR. Show me proof that he lied.

[marknroses]

umm, this VR board isn't very new. It's been around for a bit of time.

Workaholicism is good for lawyers, writers, scientists....but I expect my musicians to seek quality rather than quantity of work. I would wait another 5 years for an axl album if it promised to be out of this world.

Now you say Axl is a liar....care to back up that claim, mr. marknroses?

"see u next summer!"
"we'll see u next year with a whole bunch of new songs."
I also just read in a recent rerelease of an Axl interview in 1992-1993 where he planned on making a SOLO album with songs similar to "My World", while keeping GNR in its existing entity with Slash & Duff.

COMA wouldn't be a great song without Slash. "Its His baby" - said Axl Rose in a 1990 MTV Interview. Slash's guitar work on songs like Live & Let Die & The Garden, not to mention Welcome to the Jungle, Paradise City, November Rain & Estranged, make them the classics that they are.
& Since this is a VR board, his guitarwork on songs like STB, Big Machine, YGNR, FTP, Slither, make those songs killer-like, almost GNR songs, which is saying a hell of a lot for someone whose diet was 2 bottles of Jack a day.

MNR

[killingvector]

umm, this VR board isn't very new. It's been around for a bit of time.

Workaholicism is good for lawyers, writers, scientists....but I expect my musicians to seek quality rather than quantity of work. I would wait another 5 years for an axl album if it promised to be out of this world.

Now you say Axl is a liar....care to back up that claim, mr. marknroses?

"see u next summer!"
"we'll see u next year with a whole bunch of new songs."
I also just read in a recent rerelease of an Axl interview in 1992-1993 where he planned on making a SOLO album with songs similar to "My World", while keeping GNR in its existing entity with Slash & Duff.

COMA wouldn't be a great song without Slash. "Its His baby" - said Axl Rose in a 1990 MTV Interview. Slash's guitar work on songs like Live & Let Die & The Garden, not to mention Welcome to the Jungle, Paradise City, November Rain & Estranged, make them the classics that they are.
& Since this is a VR board, his guitarwork on songs like STB, Big Machine, YGNR, FTP, Slither, make those songs killer-like, almost GNR songs, which is saying a hell of a lot for someone whose diet was 2 bottles of Jack a day.

MNR

How is that lying? You imply that he deliberately misled his fans for some personal reason. Since when is wishful thinking considered lying? Simply saying he would tour in a year doesnt constitute a lie because you haven't shown evidence that he knew he wouldn't conduct such a tour before making such a statement. Lying implies knowledge of facts that counter one's own statements. I think you need to read this thread more carefully. Booker did a splendid job of defending slash against these same claims. When the same standard proof is applied to Axl, your evidence falls on its face.

I expect Booker to back me up on this since the same standard must be applied to both Slash and Axl.

Also, I fail to see how your definition of a workaholic constitutes quality work. Simply because you like Slash's catalog doesn't constitute evidence that he is a harder worker than Axl. No one on this board knows exactly how many new songs were recorded and how high a quality was achieved. Until CD is released, no one will know if the wait was worth it.

KV

[Bridge]

Also, I fail to see how your definition of a workaholic constitutes quality work. Simply because you like Slash's catalog doesn't constitute evidence that he is a harder worker than Axl. No one on this board knows exactly how many new songs were recorded and how high a quality was achieved. Until CD is released, no one will know if the wait was worth it.

You judge how hard someone works on the results.  And Slash has already demonstrated the results with relentless touring and an album with Snakepit and VR.  Whether or not you like the music is irrelevant; you just can't deny Slash has been out there working his ass off.  With Axl, we haven't heard a word in years and have seen no songs, so it's passable to say Slash works harder, simply because he's produced results and Axl hasn't.  If Axl were to release an album and start touring nonstop, then we might be able to say otherwise.

And you're right, the fact that you like Slash's catalog doesn't mean he's a harder worker.  But on the same token, just because you don't like Slash's catalog doesn't mean he's not hard worker.  Because music is a matter of taste, you can't say that just because you don't like something, that work wasn't put into it.

I would judge Slash's (or Axl's for that matter) track record not on my personal opinion of the music, but how much of it they make, and how much time they spend on the road laboring long hours on tours.

Simply saying he would tour in a year doesnt constitute a lie because you haven't shown evidence that he knew he wouldn't conduct such a tour before making such a statement

I concur as in the definition of lying, however, the fact that Axl repeatedly makes statements of that nature constitutes being misleading to me.  I mean, how many times has he teased the fans about an album, new songs, and that kind of thing?  If I were Axl, I'd start making "soon is not the word" my mantra, because at least it doesn't mislead the fans.

[Booker Floyd]

I expect Booker to back me up on this since the same standard must be applied to both Slash and Axl.

Ive said quite a few times that I dont consider Axl a liar, and I certainly dont consider the examples given to be lies. 

[killingvector]

Also, I fail to see how your definition of a workaholic constitutes quality work. Simply because you like Slash's catalog doesn't constitute evidence that he is a harder worker than Axl. No one on this board knows exactly how many new songs were recorded and how high a quality was achieved. Until CD is released, no one will know if the wait was worth it.

You judge how hard someone works on the results.  And Slash has already demonstrated the results with relentless touring and an album with Snakepit and VR.  Whether or not you like the music is irrelevant; you just can't deny Slash has been out there working his ass off.  With Axl, we haven't heard a word in years and have seen no songs, so it's passable to say Slash works harder, simply because he's produced results and Axl hasn't.  If Axl were to release an album and start touring nonstop, then we might be able to say otherwise.

And you're right, the fact that you like Slash's catalog doesn't mean he's a harder worker.  But on the same token, just because you don't like Slash's catalog doesn't mean he's not hard worker.  Because music is a matter of taste, you can't say that just because you don't like something, that work wasn't put into it.

I would judge Slash's (or Axl's for that matter) track record not on my personal opinion of the music, but how much of it they make, and how much time they spend on the road laboring long hours on tours.

Simply saying he would tour in a year doesnt constitute a lie because you haven't shown evidence that he knew he wouldn't conduct such a tour before making such a statement

I concur as in the definition of lying, however, the fact that Axl repeatedly makes statements of that nature constitutes being misleading to me.  I mean, how many times has he teased the fans about an album, new songs, and that kind of thing?  If I were Axl, I'd start making "soon is not the word" my mantra, because at least it doesn't mislead the fans.

We have not seen the fruits of axl's labors. It does not mean they don't exist Judgement of his work awaits. I agree with you for the most part but I cannot say that slash is a harder worker, just because his work has seen the light of day. It is premature to make that claim, just yet. When CD drops and plans are unveiled, alot of these questions can be answered.

Axl hasn't mislead fans. He said 'soon was not the word'. He said the would tour, record more, and then see where it goes. He told fans to live their lives.....Frankly, Axl couldn't have been more clear about the time spent on this album. The problem is people refuse to listen to these harbingers of the future.  If anyone has been misleading, it was Goldstein and Merck; they both quantitatively put expectations on how much CD was done. Axl, on the other hand, has been purposely flighty on this issue because he probably has little idea if or when it would be done.

[killingvector]

I expect Booker to back me up on this since the same standard must be applied to both Slash and Axl.

Ive said quite a few times that I dont consider Axl a liar, and I certainly dont consider the examples given to be lies. 

Thank you. 

[Booker Floyd]

Even more preposterous than the "liar" stigma is the "Slash is lazy" routine Ive seen on here so many times.  And when faced with evidence proving the opposite - that Slash is in fact very hard-working - the detractors refer to their own subjective views on the quality of the work, which is obviously irrelevant. 

As for Slashs work-rate compared to Axls, I think thats pretty much a no-brainer.  We can speculate as to how hard Axls working on the recording of this album, and Im sure he is working hard on it, but i just dont thats comparable to the years of worldwide touring Slash has done since GNR, especially in the last two years.  The amount of touring hes done with VR alone is pretty damn impressive.  I dont see how writing and recording quite matches the amount of work invested in touring the world nearly non-stop for over a year.  Thats not taking into account the writing, recording, TV performances, and press Slash (and the others) have done.  And again, thats not to shortchange the work Axls done, but again I just dont find their scenarios very comparable.

[killingvector]

Even more preposterous than the "liar" stigma is the "Slash is lazy" routine Ive seen on here so many times.  And when faced with evidence proving the opposite - that Slash is in fact very hard-working - the detractors refer to their own subjective views on the quality of the work, which is obviously irrelevant. 

As for Slashs work-rate compared to Axls, I think thats pretty much a no-brainer.  We can speculate as to how hard Axls working on the recording of this album, and Im sure he is working hard on it, but i just dont thats comparable to the years of worldwide touring Slash has done since GNR, especially in the last two years.  The amount of touring hes done with VR alone is pretty damn impressive.  I dont see how writing and recording quite matches the amount of work invested in touring the world nearly non-stop for over a year.  Thats not taking into account the writing, recording, TV performances, and press Slash (and the others) have done.  And again, thats not to shortchange the work Axls done, but again I just dont find their scenarios very comparable.

It's all dependant on the release of this album. If it happens, Axl should tour extensively and make up a chunk of the visibility and touring gap. Artists function in strange ways; some like to work and release furiously a la Speilberg, the master of the quick shoot, others like Terrance Malick only pick up the camera when they are inspired.

[GNRisSLASH]

Killingvector, why don't you just leave this VR area of the forum, as you only have negative things to say about them. please.

I ask, give me proof that Axl deliberately mislead the public on any issue GnR. Show me proof that he lied.

Wouldn't you call it misleading the public when you show up late for most of your concerts, don't show at all for others, and don't issue any apologies or statements to the fans that bough tickets? If that's not misleading your fans, then what is?

[Mikkamakka]

I think when you promise something but it doesn't happen then a lot of people will be angry of you. if you do this promising as a routine and it turns out to be untrue again and again then people will think you are a liar. It's not wishful thinking anymore.

Back to the topic: everyone lies. Even Slash. But to say someone is a liar you'd have to prove that he's doing it again and again, as a routine, as a...habit. Since Slash has never done that way, we can close the topic.

[St.heathen]

So did anyone find the proof or what ?
I remember being a fan in 88,89,90,91,92,93,94 and 1995, and I would never imagine somebody calling themselves GnR fans talk so much shit about Slash,Duff,Matt,Steven and Izzy, and/or Axl as I've seen here.. Guess I was naive,young and stupid? C'mon people, what have become of us so-called fans. Are we reduced to blood-thirsty animals who want to rip the band members of one of the coolest groupes in the 80's and 90's apart? In my book, anyone who talk with so much disrespect about Slash, Duff, Izzy or Axl as some of you in this thresd have, are not really fans of GnR. You are making this in to a war between old and new versions of GnR, and that sucks big-time. You are like Bush: "Either you're with us, or against us". This is music, and you are turning this into a fucking soap-opera!! If someone of you said the shit about Slash infront of Axl between 85 to 96, he would smack you down, without further discussion..? I belive there is much love between the old guys and Axl, but pride and male testoron are making it so difficult to kiss and make up.. Most of the problems are contracts and shit, and to sort that shit out with lawyers and stuff are natural anyhow, whats the big deal? I've had companies, and old friends as partners or investors, and its normal to let lawyers take care of the legal hassle isen't it? Please people, try to give respect to all members of GnR. If you love NR, WTTJ, DC, PC, Coma, Hair of the Dog or any of the songs from AFD,LIES, UYI 1 and 2 , TSI? or Live erea, then you shouldent talk so much shit about the majority of members who made that happen? If you like the newer songs, and only them, talk as much shit as you want for all I care, but I cant stand the hipocricy among some of you guys.. You claim to be fans of GnR, but hate like 80% of the members who gave the masses knowledge about GnR? That's strange... ? I dont think Slash are a liar anymore than Axl is, or Duff and so on and so on. I belive that sometimes they mess up a bit due to a human thing called memory,or the lack of it, or the media make up shit, or misunderstand them, sometimes they are misquoted, sometimes they get bored with the same fucking questions, or wants to fuck with,or joke with the reporter, sometimes they are forced to tell white lies, due to many things (legal shit, tactical shit or whatever), but I feel that most of the times Slash and Axl are honest guys who speak their minds when able to.

Absoloutly man! Great post.  Those of us who can appriciate whatever these guys do away from GN'R, seem to be a minority on the net anyway.  We've been enjoying the albums and tours ect of who ever comes our way whether it's Snakepit, Neurotic Outsiders or VR. 

While the others have been sat on here spouting the same rubbish for about 4 years or more lol And it's all bollocks.  Alot of the online fans have turned into the the people 'Get in the Ring' was all about lol. If they somehow sorted their differences - because I think you're right it's probably all ego and stubbornes - became friends again alot of people here will have nervous breakdowns lol.  Anyway Rock on!

[St.heathen]

Oh and I don't know how someone can say Slash isn't a workhorse.  I mean ok, there are harder jobs out there.  But for what he does, he hasn't stopped man. 

Outside of the bands he's played in. The guest appearences on albums and the live stage are almost countless.  Stop being so bloody petty.  He loves doing what he does and he has the respect of his fans and his peers, that's a cool thing.

The only thing I don't believe about Axl is that 2001 Tour that "he didn't know about" I know people who bought the tickets and didn't get any money back.  I'm sure he reads some of the Mags or Net sites. Or I'm sure that the management knowing who  they were dealing with, i think they would have told Mr Rose myself.