American Right Wing beats up on grieving war mother

[gilld1]

Sandman, you think it's bad when a person says something that goes unchalleged?  What about all the Bushites and the lies they were spewing before the war?  Where's the accountibilty?  Where's your challenge to that?

[D]

I just think calling her a hero in the same sentence as calling her son a hero is ridiculous

She isnt a hero, she is a grieving mother on a camping trip who wouldnt be protesting had her son not got killed.

thats my problem with this woman

its ok for other people's kids to get massacred but just because her precious son got killed its now a horrible tragedy.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Her son Casey is a hero. She is not.

How come we never heard from her last year in the weeks after her son`s death? ( That is when she met with President Bush)

In the bigger picture, I think a lot of the protestors have an ideal that is not based on reality. No one likes war, but pulling out of Iraq now would be disasterous to that country and show the rest of the world we don`t follow through with what we say.

[sandman]

aah, the typical left wing response accusing conservatives of not being able to think for themselves. how original.?

why is it so hard to understand that many military families are offended by her actions?

is it really major news that a woman living in the US is against the war??? more than half the country is agains the war!!

i think it's normal to disagree with someone, and i think it's fair to point out their contradicting statements. that does not mean i'm trying to mud up her character. lighten up people.?

I'm not accusing anyone of anything.? I'm simply stating that what you're saying is exactly what the conservative "party line" is. Verbatim.? And that the higher ups in the party are actively "programming" the sentiment into their constituency.? Both are undeniable facts.? I wouldn't presume to say how you formed your opinion on the matter...

No, it's not hard to understand why some military families are "offended" by her actions...just as it's not hard to understand why some military families support her whole heartedly.? It's just irrelevant to the discussion at hand.? Again, for some odd reason, the fact that SOME people might be offended by her questions somehow means they shouldn't be answered?? That's hogwash.? The fact is...the questions aren't being answered because the answers don't paint the administration in a very flattering light.? Everything else is a straw man.

You're right! More than 1/2 the country IS against the war.? And the questions SHE is asking are precisely the ones they'd like answered. You show exactly WHY her character is irrelevant and WHY answers are justified.? Thanks for making the point so elequently.

It's normal to disagree, yes.? However, "smearing" someone to minimalize their opinion is an old fashioned Repub "Dirty Trix" tactic from days of Nixon.? When you choose to point out "contradicting statements" (which, FYI, are not contradictions, at all), simply to "minimize" someone, or their opinion, you are engaging in character assasination, by definition.? You can call it what you like, but, quite frankly, it's not much of an argument to make, given the topic at hand.

keep taking cheap shots, pilferk. and thanks for the "official" definition of character assasination. 

and maybe you're right....smearing people is only a Republican tactic. i mean those all those politicians on the left are such good natured people. they would never stoop so low.   

and the right is the side that's "programmed"?   
 

[LeftToDecay]

Bush has admitted we had bad intelligence. When the CIA, France & Russia, England and the UN believed Saddam had WMD`

It always amuses me when people  talk about countries as if they were real living persons.


The former leader of the Unesco weapon inspectors, Scot Ritter is and was the highest authortity in the "WMDs or not"- matter I think.
His team spend years in Iraq searching for WMDs and investigating Iraq's ability to re establish the ability to produce them.Digging up destroyed chem labs, snooping in general.Unlike his follower, Hans Blix, he actually had balls to open his mouth about what Bush was trying to pull off BEFORE the The Gulf War 2 - Imperialism Strikes Back.

Ritter was/is quaranteed that Iraq has been unable to produce WMDs in over 10 years now.He  did his best to get his voice heard  before war.
Since what he was saying suggested that the war isn't necessarry team Bush refused to listen at all and somehow he was completely blocked out from mainstream media. Normal people in Europe knew more about him and his views than people living under influence of U.S media machine. Which is just sick.
Just before Gulf War 2 No one listened the former LEADER of the WEAPON INSPECTORS regarding matter of WEAPONS Of Mass Destruction. Ritter spend alot more time in Iraq in the charge of the WMD hunt than any other U.S official and his voice doesn't get heard. Doesn't it sound kinda kinky?

No one really knows about the quality of intelligence CIA and such  have/had about the matter and it isn't even really relevant here.
Team Bush politicians simply  decided that "okhay, Iraq has WMDs now!" and began negleting anyone who says otherwise while anything that supports the claim, no matter how shady the source, began getting the  red magic marker treatment, so to speak.

And also. I don't recall seeing anything that wouls sugget anyone in U.N bought Bush's bullshit statements about WMD in Iraq.

s,  and Saddam kicked out the UN inspectors, what do you do? Leave them be? Hindsight is always 20/20.

Weapon Inspectors never got kicked out of Iraq.
Ritter's team got pulled back by CIA (entire team was kinda puzzled why. They thought things were starting to go as  smoothly as anyone dares to hope, co-op wise)and few years later, Blix's team kinda had to get the fuck out of there because Bush felt like starting his bullshit war and bombs began to drop.

[pilferk]

aah, the typical left wing response accusing conservatives of not being able to think for themselves. how original.?

why is it so hard to understand that many military families are offended by her actions?

is it really major news that a woman living in the US is against the war??? more than half the country is agains the war!!

i think it's normal to disagree with someone, and i think it's fair to point out their contradicting statements. that does not mean i'm trying to mud up her character. lighten up people.?

I'm not accusing anyone of anything.? I'm simply stating that what you're saying is exactly what the conservative "party line" is. Verbatim.? And that the higher ups in the party are actively "programming" the sentiment into their constituency.? Both are undeniable facts.? I wouldn't presume to say how you formed your opinion on the matter...

No, it's not hard to understand why some military families are "offended" by her actions...just as it's not hard to understand why some military families support her whole heartedly.? It's just irrelevant to the discussion at hand.? Again, for some odd reason, the fact that SOME people might be offended by her questions somehow means they shouldn't be answered?? That's hogwash.? The fact is...the questions aren't being answered because the answers don't paint the administration in a very flattering light.? Everything else is a straw man.

You're right! More than 1/2 the country IS against the war.? And the questions SHE is asking are precisely the ones they'd like answered. You show exactly WHY her character is irrelevant and WHY answers are justified.? Thanks for making the point so elequently.

It's normal to disagree, yes.? However, "smearing" someone to minimalize their opinion is an old fashioned Repub "Dirty Trix" tactic from days of Nixon.? When you choose to point out "contradicting statements" (which, FYI, are not contradictions, at all), simply to "minimize" someone, or their opinion, you are engaging in character assasination, by definition.? You can call it what you like, but, quite frankly, it's not much of an argument to make, given the topic at hand.

keep taking cheap shots, pilferk. and thanks for the "official" definition of character assasination.?

and maybe you're right....smearing people is only a Republican tactic. i mean those all those politicians on the left are such good natured people. they would never stoop so low.? ?

and the right is the side that's "programmed"?? ?
 

I'm hardly taking "cheap shots". If you feel I am, I ask that you point them out.? I'm just not going to let you "wiggle" out of your position.? You made the statements.? Defend them.? Or abandon them.

Once again, I didn't say it was "only a Republican tactic".? I said it was a Republican tactic that hailed from the Nixon "Dirty Trix" days.? It's a matter of history that the Nixon White House perfected the tactic.? Nowadays it's commonly use by both the Repubs and the Dems.? I was simply crediting the tactic to it's "source".? You're "reading into" what I said, rather than just reading it.  And as for your point that the Dem politico machine is no better than the Repub politico machine....Well, on that we certainly agree.  I would never imply otherwise.    But, of course, that has nothing to do with the point, at hand, either.

As I've said ad nauseum, I'm hardly a shill for either party.? I'm a registered independant.? I vote both sides of the ticket.? I disagree with THIS administration on almost every issue (not every issue, but close).? However, with the Republican Party, in general, I tend to agree with them on fiscal conservativism (and those issues) but disagree on most social issues. Foreign policy is often a toss up. That's, fundamentally, why I'm an independant: I don't agree with either party enough to actually want to become a member.? It just so happens that, in this forum, the matters with which I agree with the Repubs tend to NOT be the matters discussed.

And, again, I didn't say the Dems don't "program" their constituency too.? Both political parties do it.? ?But the Dems "programming", in this discussion, is irrelevant.? And once again, I've not accused YOU, specifically, of being programmed.? ? I simply said, when you spouted the party line, verbatim, that what you were saying is exactly what the Repubs are "programming" into their constituency.? That's a fact.? You can see the tactic every day, from almost every member of the Repub party who talks on this subject.? Once again, how YOU arrived at YOUR opinion wasn't the point....and once again, you're "reading into" what I said, rather than just reading it.

I'll say it one more time, for clarity:? You are engaging in character assasination simply to minimize Ms. Sheehan's opinion/questions/points.? That position, for my money, is a very weak (but sensational) argument to make, since, in this case, her character is really irrelevant.

[pilferk]

Her son Casey is a hero. She is not.

How come we never heard from her last year in the weeks after her son`s death? ( That is when she met with President Bush)

In the bigger picture, I think a lot of the protestors have an ideal that is not based on reality. No one likes war, but pulling out of Iraq now would be disasterous to that country and show the rest of the world we don`t follow through with what we say.

We didn't hear from her for 2 reasons:

1) She was still under the impression, given the information at hand, that the war was justified.  It's only AFTER the fact that Ms. Sheehan was "briefed" on the fact that the reasons given, at it's inception, were not valid

2) When she DID find out, she didn't go screaming from the mountain tops to the press.  Just as, when we discuss issues here, you don't read about them on CNN or MSNBC or FOX News.  We heard about it when she made her position VERY public.

I think protestors realize that we can't pull out, willy nilly, of Iraq.  I think, of course, that it's easier for the right to portray them as a bunch of irrational kooks and crackpots, however, in order to minimize their protest, than it is to actually listen to their voices.  We've discussed (I think ad nauseum) the uses of that tactic.  The truth, of course, is somewhere closer to center.

What most of the protestors (including Ms. Sheehan) have ACTUALLY SAID (in the press) is that they DON'T want us to pull out immediately.  What they'd like is an exit strategy to be created and a time line for evac to be laid out.   I think, largely, none of the protestors expect all our troops to be home tomorrow, or next week, or even next month.

[D]

U protestors are so brain washed it is hilarious.

The woman didnt protest cause she didnt have the information

that is hilarious

U people act like The Sheehan's lived under a rock or something without TV or newspapers.

Bottom line is, she supported the war until her son got killed and had to place the  blame on someone.

Her son RE ENLISTED TO FIGHT, what part of that cant some of u understand

he wasnt brainwashed, he wasnt kidnapped, he wasnt forced

HE CHOSE TO FUCKING FIGHT

therefore he supported the war and its cause.

His mother is just bitter cause she lost a child

I mean its as simple as 1-2-3

U all are just too die hard bleeding heart liberal to see the truth when its in clear black and white.

[journey]

Maybe she felt like her son was slightly brainwashed by the whole thing. However, he chose to defend his country. It's possible that he believed in it, and felt like he was making a difference.

[Kitano]

Her son Casey is a hero. She is not.

How come we never heard from her last year in the weeks after her son`s death? ( That is when she met with President Bush)

In the bigger picture, I think a lot of the protestors have an ideal that is not based on reality. No one likes war, but pulling out of Iraq now would be disasterous to that country and show the rest of the world we don`t follow through with what we say.

We didn't hear from her for 2 reasons:

1) She was still under the impression, given the information at hand, that the war was justified.? It's only AFTER the fact that Ms. Sheehan was "briefed" on the fact that the reasons given, at it's inception, were not valid

2) When she DID find out, she didn't go screaming from the mountain tops to the press.? Just as, when we discuss issues here, you don't read about them on CNN or MSNBC or FOX News.? We heard about it when she made her position VERY public.

I think protestors realize that we can't pull out, willy nilly, of Iraq.? I think, of course, that it's easier for the right to portray them as a bunch of irrational kooks and crackpots, however, in order to minimize their protest, than it is to actually listen to their voices.? We've discussed (I think ad nauseum) the uses of that tactic.? The truth, of course, is somewhere closer to center.

What most of the protestors (including Ms. Sheehan) have ACTUALLY SAID (in the press) is that they DON'T want us to pull out immediately.? What they'd like is an exit strategy to be created and a time line for evac to be laid out.? ?I think, largely, none of the protestors expect all our troops to be home tomorrow, or next week, or even next month.

There already is an exit strategy.  As soon as the Iraqis can take over the main security role then the US will begin to withdraw the troops.  I'm not really sure what Ms. Sheehan doesn't understand about this.  I honestly think she doesn't care, her own words have shown her to be an extreme left wing kook who is pissing all over everthing her son fought and died for.  She has also made some comments that have an anti semitic tone typical of the extreme left.

If she wants to get the troops home soon then she would be better off not giving encoragement to the enemy, which is all her activities have done so far.

[Rob]

You people claiming that any of these brave men and women fighting for our country are doing it because they have somehow been "brainwashed" are fucking idiots.  That's total disrespect to their loyalty and bravery.  You're saying if they knew any better they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.

[Kitano]

You people claiming that any of these brave men and women fighting for our country are doing it because they have somehow been "brainwashed" are fucking idiots.? That's total disrespect to their loyalty and bravery.? You're saying if they knew any better they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.

The left think they know better than everyone.  So it fits that if you disagree with them then you are either dishonest or brainwashed.

[D]

Ive been watching some Hurricane Katrina footage today and I am a hard hearted person but that shit damn near brought me to tears


THAT is a tragedy and i think Cindy Sheehan should shut the fuck up. A guy volunteering to fight for his country and dying is somewhat tragic I give u that but those victims of Hurricane Katrina are true tragedies and I feel horrible for them cause they had no choice.  Cindy Sheehan had her 15 minutes of fame now I want her to go away, live with it, move on, get over it.

cold hearted or not I really dont give a shit, she didnt care when other people's kids were being killed so why should I give a fuck cause her son who went twice got killed?

[SLCPUNK]

You don't have to give a shit.

And she doesn't have to shut up.

Get it?

Nobody gives a rats ass until it's their kid who died in Iraq, or their kid who is gay, or their kid who needs an abortion, or their grandparent who could benefit from stem cell research, or their kid who was shot in school with a gun.....whatever. Nobody gives a shit in this country until the shoe is on the other foot....shameful.

You wanna beat up on this womans character and avoid the true meaning of this thread? Then you are only lying to yourselves and I hope that makes you happy. But that is not the kind of man I want or ever will be.

[SLCPUNK]

Her son Casey is a hero. She is not.

How come we never heard from her last year in the weeks after her son`s death? ( That is when she met with President Bush)

In the bigger picture, I think a lot of the protestors have an ideal that is not based on reality. No one likes war, but pulling out of Iraq now would be disasterous to that country and show the rest of the world we don`t follow through with what we say.

We didn't hear from her for 2 reasons:

1) She was still under the impression, given the information at hand, that the war was justified.  It's only AFTER the fact that Ms. Sheehan was "briefed" on the fact that the reasons given, at it's inception, were not valid

2) When she DID find out, she didn't go screaming from the mountain tops to the press.  Just as, when we discuss issues here, you don't read about them on CNN or MSNBC or FOX News.  We heard about it when she made her position VERY public.

I think protestors realize that we can't pull out, willy nilly, of Iraq.  I think, of course, that it's easier for the right to portray them as a bunch of irrational kooks and crackpots, however, in order to minimize their protest, than it is to actually listen to their voices.  We've discussed (I think ad nauseum) the uses of that tactic.  The truth, of course, is somewhere closer to center.

What most of the protestors (including Ms. Sheehan) have ACTUALLY SAID (in the press) is that they DON'T want us to pull out immediately.  What they'd like is an exit strategy to be created and a time line for evac to be laid out.   I think, largely, none of the protestors expect all our troops to be home tomorrow, or next week, or even next month.

There already is an exit strategy.  As soon as the Iraqis can take over the main security role then the US will begin to withdraw the troops.  I'm not really sure what Ms. Sheehan doesn't understand about this.  I honestly think she doesn't care, her own words have shown her to be an extreme left wing kook who is pissing all over everthing her son fought and died for. 
If she wants to get the troops home soon then she would be better off not giving encoragement to the enemy, which is all her activities have done so far.

They are pulling ou? Yea...and how many times has the deadline been pushed back?

You don't think troops are staying behind? Of course they are.

There is no exit strategy. You guys will say anything...it's amazing. At what point can you believe your hot air anymore? It's a joke.

She has also made some comments that have an anti semitic tone typical of the extreme left.


Such as?

f she wants to get the troops home soon then she would be better off not giving encoragement to the enemy,

How is she giving encouragement to the enemy?

[SLCPUNK]

You people claiming that any of these brave men and women fighting for our country are doing it because they have somehow been "brainwashed" are fucking idiots.  That's total disrespect to their loyalty and bravery.  You're saying if they knew any better they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.

No,I am  saying they were lied to.

[SLCPUNK]

You people claiming that any of these brave men and women fighting for our country are doing it because they have somehow been "brainwashed" are fucking idiots.  That's total disrespect to their loyalty and bravery.  You're saying if they knew any better they wouldn't be doing what they're doing.

The left think they know better than everyone.  So it fits that if you disagree with them then you are either dishonest or brainwashed.

You forgot stupid....

[D]

The thing is, not everyone thinks the war is stupid

Many many soldiers dont feel that way and just because some of you think its stupid doesnt make it stupid.

I dont agree with her, she has her right to piss and moan, I have my right to say whatever I want to about her.

In my eyes she is wrong and disrespecting her son's memory.

[SLCPUNK]

And I'm sure you know more about her son's life then she does....enough to know that she is disrespecting it.....

As for thinking the war is stupid: Bush's most recent polls give him a 40 percent approval rating for the war.

Guess what the rest thought?

[Dr. Blutarsky]

I wonder if Sheehan will have anything to say about Hurricane Katrina?

We do have an exit strategy. When Iraq can provide their own security, we will leave.