WHO WOULD JESUS KILL?

[SLCPUNK]

That Satan will fuck anything with a pulse....

Oh God!!! Talk about it!!!  Damn Satan. 

Yea, but he's got a great bod.....

[Queen of Everything]

That Satan will fuck anything with a pulse....

Oh God!!! Talk about it!!!? Damn Satan.?

Yea, but he's got a great bod.....

Mmmm... and Hes a DEVIL in the bed ( Pun intended )

[POPmetal]

When "insurgents" disrupt the flow of oil by blowing up a pipeline, it results in lower supply, that's why price rises. When Hugo Chavez doesn't want to sell his oil to the US, he is merely redirecting the flow of supply, but it remains the same globally. There might be a slight fluctuation because of speculation, but nothing long term. If you can't understand this, take a basic economics course.

 The problem is not solved getting oil from Saudi if S America cuts us off..... the problem is we are close to maxing out our supplies to the point that any downward movement by anyone of these countries (In this case S America) in terms of supply to us will be disruptive financially! You do read don't you? We can't keep up with demand anymore.

You're the one who should try reading. You clearly didn't read my explanation as to why global supply and demand would remain the same if Chavez refuses to sell his oil to the US. The only way he can make a significant change in the price of oil is if he refuses to sell it to everone. That would hurt not just the US, but the entire world, and most of all Venezuela, which does not have anything in the way of a diversified economy and would completely croak without oil money. Either you didn't read what I wrote, or you don't understand the simple concept of global supply and demand.

The extreme statements likening Pat Robertson to a terrorist. He may say some over the top things, but he hasn't killed anyone, and even apologized for his comment.

You are twisting my words around. I just told you why I don't like him. He is a hypocrite and friend of the right, saying things like this do not help us. His statements are parallel to statements made by Osama yes, and if you don't like that comparison...too bad.

"Making a terroristic threat" is a violation of federal law, if done using the airwaves. It comes under the jurisdiction of the FBI. I'm sure we can all be assured that Bush has directed them to pursue a vigourous prosecution as we speak!

I am twisting your words? Did you not liken him to a terrorist? That's all I said, and you just did it again, so thanks for proving my point.

And now you can add to this the implication that Pat Robertson caused Tim McVeigh to commit an act of terror. Prove that, or shut up.

Strawman alert!

Again you twist my words around. I am saying this guy is a dangerous man to claim to be Christian and put words like this over the air waves. There are other nutballs WHO WILL take action and can only be motivated when they hear something like this.

You just hate freedom of speech. The New York Times is a dangerous organization that is preaching hate against the US throughout the world, but I do believe they have a right to print the garbage they print.

And you wanna talk about Christian hypocrisy? What about you lefties? You believe that only you have the right to freedom of speech.

And also the implication that Tim McVeigh is a Christian. That's just another anti-Christian media lie

Haha!! LOOK! A conservative website claiming McVeigh was not a Christian...how suprising! You guys crack me up.....

McVeigh, was in fact a member of screwball Christian group. He is as much a Christian as Osama is a Muslim.

If you actually take the time to READ what the web site said, you would realize how ridiculous the notion that he's a Christian is. Just because the web site is conservative doesn't make it wrong. They backed it up with an overwhelming amount of evidence. You only demonstrate how boneheaded you are by maintaining that McVeigh is Christian. It shows that you're just as close minded as extremist like Pat Robertson. The only difference between him and you is that he's on the right and you're on the left.

Why do you hate Christians so much that you feel compelled to use false accusations like these to defame them?

[SLCPUNK]

If jousting with shadows and strawmen is your thing, then go for it with somebody else.

I am tired of repeating myself to somebody who is stuck on stupid...

[Queen of Everything]

If jousting with shadows and strawmen is your thing, then go for it with somebody else.

I am tired of repeating myself to somebody who is stuck on stupid...

I love how you can go from joking about Satans hot body - to that.     

[SLCPUNK]

This guy is a darling of the right, he was just on Hannity last week. Now everybody is trying to distance themselves from his comment.

Here are some more good ones:

"Homosexuals want to come into churches and disrupt church services and throw blood all around and try to give people AIDS and spit in the face of ministers."

- Pat Robertson again, The 700 Club, 01-18-95

"I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period."

- Pat Robertson again, The 700 Club, 01-08-92

"When lawlessness is abroad in the land, the same thing will happen here that happened in Nazi Germany. Many of those people involved in Adolph Hitler were Satanists. Many of them were homosexuals. The two things seem to go together."

- Pat Robertson again, The 700 Club, 01-21-93

NOW is saying that in order to be a woman, you've got to be a lesbian."

- Pat Robertson again, The 700 Club, 12-03-97

[SLCPUNK]

If jousting with shadows and strawmen is your thing, then go for it with somebody else.

I am tired of repeating myself to somebody who is stuck on stupid...

I love how you can go from joking about Satans hot body - to that.     

Yea...it took me a long time to learn how to be an asshole.....

All you really have to do is put in the work.......

[POPmetal]

If jousting with shadows and strawmen is your thing, then go for it with somebody else.

I am tired of repeating myself to somebody who is stuck on stupid...

Okay. I'm completely comfortable with the argument I made. At least I admit that I'm wrong when I'm wrong and I don't falsely accuse others of twisting my words or jousting with strawmen because I can't come up with a real defense.

[Queen of Everything]

If jousting with shadows and strawmen is your thing, then go for it with somebody else.

I am tired of repeating myself to somebody who is stuck on stupid...

I love how you can go from joking about Satans hot body - to that.? ? ?

Yea...it took me a long time to learn how to be an asshole.....

All you really have to do is put in the work.......

You're My Idol  Please SLC teach me how to do that!!

 

[Bridge]

Many of those people involved in Adolph Hitler were Satanists. Many of them were homosexuals. The two things seem to go together."

- Pat Robertson again, The 700 Club, 01-21-93

Robertson is flat out lying there, either that or he doesn't know his facts.  probably both.  Hitler was a religious extremist himself.  anyone not white protestant was persecuted alongside the jews.  homosexuals were also murdered in camps and the ovens. 

[kathryn2662]

You havent experienced it, so you cant say it's not true, until you have a true encounter with Jesus working into your heart and into your life- a true revelation, then you cant say it's not real because I can give thousands of people including myself the works and miracles He has done and glory He has promised, I watched it, Ive seen it, Ive witnessed it, Ive felt it, Ive lived it, Ive experienced it, and all of that daily and growing more everyday.?

Yes, actually, I have experienced that.?

I was once a christian, taught sunday school and I believed every word I heard preached to me by my pastor, and believed every word I taught to the young minds in my sunday school classes.? ?

I experienced the same feelings much like you describe in the exerpt from your post above.

Then... I read the bible.? I mean, actually read it.? With an open mind, with critical thinking skills, and I realized how full of lies and inconsistencies it actually is.? And I reflected long and hard on the traditions of christianity, the oppressive nature of christianity, and I realized that I could no longer subscribe to this doctrine as the basis of my belief system.?

And that's why I left the faith.?

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

You have a huge attitude towards me and all because you dont agree with me, which is very close minded.

It's very closed minded not to agree with you?? So... can I turn that around on you and say, it's very close minded of you not to agree with me?? Or is this one of those hypocritical things on which christians have cornered the market?

And... I don't have an attitude against you, I have an attitude against oppressive religions... all of them... not just christianity.

Im clearing stating that I know what I speak is truth, because I first hand live it.

Actually, you're clearly stating what you believe.? That's cool... believe what you choose.? but it isn't truth.? You can neither prove or disprove the existence of god.? It's all based on faith.? You live nothing, except your own life, and your own life serves as proof for nothing except for you, and it is not based in the factual, but in the belief.? I can say that I believe that there are spirits in the colors that I paint, and that they speak to me, and that I know this to be the truth because I live it first hand, but that doesn't make it any more true than what you are 'clearly stating.' ?

On Topic:? I think that Chavez should call for the assisination of Pat Robertson.? Or... at least, his kidnapping.? ?

What I said was not a contradiction, me saying I know how things work and you dont is not a contradiction, even though that's not what I entirely meant, I dont mean it to sound that you arent smart and dont know anything. ?Being close minded isnt disagreeing, you have a right to disagree, but when you give attitude and have a condescending tone towards the beilef you dont have- then that is close minded. ?Im sorry that I thought you had attitude (I didnt think you had one because I got defensive and "scared everyones out to get the christians", I could care less, it just seemed that way by the way you proclaim im WRONG and cut up my words instead of only building up your own) and I can promise that I havent and dont have attitude towards you as well, but it does seem to me that you are condesceding. ?And very hipocritcal, because you say that it's self righteous for me to call you wrong, yet you have sit there and tell me Im wrong, saying that my way isnt right or truth. ?I never said your way was wrong, I only said my way was right, I focus and word into my belief only, not telling someone else they are wrong. ?Me saying that I am right, doesnt nessicarily mean I am calling others wrong, because Im not looking at others, Im only looking at myself. ?Im not going to look at others, because who am I to look at them? ?Who am I to judge or condem? ? Cutting my words up, and telling me Im wrong and my belief that Im right and know that Jesus is truth, is putting judgement on my beliefs and condemnation, who are you to tell me that what I think is truth isnt? And so what if I did that to you, dont pull an excuse "well she did it first", because that doesnt make either or right. I in no way have been close minded to the un believers, I disagree, but I have not been rude or mean. ?Having a true experience with Jesus, is more than beileving in Him and following His word and going to church, I used to do that all my life and never had a 'true' experience until 2 years ago, once you have a true experience- you never turn back, it's 100% impossible, there's a difference between believing in Him and being experienced and baptized in the Holy Spirit by Him. ?I cant change your mind on how you feel or what you believe, that's why Im not gonna preach it or say half the stuff I want to, and when my words were cut down sentence by sentence I didnt retailiate back to prove that I was right because I cant change your mind and I dont owe you anything. ?Im sorry that you had a bad experience, and I dont understand how you can get such a book of answers, life, and love, and turn it into something bad. ?And Im not saying that to look down on your point of view, becaues I totally understand. ?But to rule it out, and refuse to look it at no more in a different view, to at least try and get curious on changing your perspective, I dont understand. ?What do you have lose? ?Honestly. ?Your same belief system you have now, your same exact life style, your entire world you have right now will have gone no where, and you wont lose, if Im wrong about all I have said then your same life will be there where you left it and you will have lost nothing, but if Im right about this, then your entire world can change for an unbelievably amazing turn for blessing and high, breakthroughs and answers and a future you never knew you could have. ?If Im wrong about that, everything you hold today will still be there. ?So why not. ?You dont my story either, you dont know what I have been through, I dont know yours either. ?I dont know the hundreds of peoples stories, who I witness every week change their lives, last night watching people litteraly fall to the ground because the Holy Spirit entered them healing them, all I know is I can speak about Life and I can speak of an amazing way. I cant change how you feel, and Im sorry for however you feel about me, but I will promise you that no matter how much you dont beileve it, that God is real, He is love, and He thinks of you in no bad way, He hates the sin- not the sinner, He couldnt be in more love with you, He doesnt want you to change, He just wants you to allow Him to be in your life so He can see to it that you live the life you were born for. ? I dont want to continue back and forth you pointing out things of why you think that's wrong, who cares, just look at it- disagree, and move on. ?I never took your words, and quote you, saying "and that's EXACTLY why nonbelievers are this and that, and they are wrong, and this is why blah blah blah". ?Dont focus on the wrong part. ?

[POPmetal]

Hitler was a religious extremist himself.?

I guess you can say Hitler was religious extremist. But his religion was Fascism.

[Tied-Up]

Here is an example of a contradiction in your post:

Having a true experience with Jesus, is more than beileving in Him and following His word and going to church, I used to do that all my life and never had a 'true' experience until 2 years ago, once you have a true experience- you never turn back, it's 100% impossible, there's a difference between believing in Him and being experienced and baptized in the Holy Spirit by Him. ?

and, in the very same post, you also said:

I can promise that I havent and dont have attitude towards you as well, but it does seem to me that you are condesceding.? And very hipocritcal, because you say that it's self righteous for me to call you wrong, yet you have sit there and tell me Im wrong, saying that my way isnt right or truth.? I never said your way was wrong, I only said my way was right, I focus and word into my belief only, not telling someone else they are wrong.

Now, please explain to me how you AREN'T being condescending in the first example I have up there?? It ISN'T condescending for you to suggest that the things I have experienced in my life are 100% impossible for me to have experienced?? Or, perhaps it isn't condescending for you to assume that I was less of a christian because you obviously have gone through some transformation that I had not gone through.? You don't know me, you don't know the life I led when I was a christian, nor do you know the life I lead now.? You have NO IDEA what I may or may not have experienced in my life, yet you sit there and tell me that it is 100% impossible for me to have experienced exactly what I have said I have experienced.? Then you said that you have not said I am wrong... but then, how is it you aren't saying I am wrong by stating that it's 100% impossible for me to have experienced what I experienced?

That is a contradiction.

contradiction ["k?n-tr&-'dik-sh&n] - 1:? the act of contradicting.? 2:? ?proposition, statement, or phrase that asserts or implies both the truth and falsity of something? ?3:? a statement or phrase whose parts contradict each other? 4:? logical incongruity? ? ?5:? a situation in which inherent factors, actions, or propositions are inconsistent or contrary to one another

 It is a contradiction, because you are being inconsistent within the same post.? You can't say that you aren't saying that I am wrong, only that you are right, and then turn around and say that my experiences are 100% impossible as I recollected them, because what you are saying is that I am wrong, and you are right, which is a DIRECT contradiction.

You can? continue to stand by your premise that you are not contradicting yourself, but I will continue to call a contradiction exactly what it is.? And... for clarity... in the course of argumentation and debate, it is necessary to break down another's words and statements, so that one can demonstrate the error in which they have been stated.? That's... the way it works.

[POPmetal]

You havent experienced it, so you cant say it's not true, until you have a true encounter with Jesus working into your heart and into your life- a true revelation, then you cant say it's not real because I can give thousands of people including myself the works and miracles He has done and glory He has promised, I watched it, Ive seen it, Ive witnessed it, Ive felt it, Ive lived it, Ive experienced it, and all of that daily and growing more everyday.?

Yes, actually, I have experienced that.?

I was once a christian, taught sunday school and I believed every word I heard preached to me by my pastor, and believed every word I taught to the young minds in my sunday school classes.? ?

I experienced the same feelings much like you describe in the exerpt from your post above.

Then... I read the bible.? I mean, actually read it.? With an open mind, with critical thinking skills, and I realized how full of lies and inconsistencies it actually is.? And I reflected long and hard on the traditions of christianity, the oppressive nature of christianity, and I realized that I could no longer subscribe to this doctrine as the basis of my belief system.?

And that's why I left the faith.?

So you were able to experience Jesus, meaning you acknowledge His existence, but because of perceived inconsistencies in the Bible and because you felt that His rules were too oppressive, you chose to denounce Him?

I can understand not believing that He was God in the first place, but I don't see what denouncing Him because you don't like His rules accomplishes?

And if you no longer believe in Him because of inconsistencies in the Bible, what was it that you had experienced?

PopMetal: ?I realize that, before even explaining this to you, you and other christians will probably fail to understand what I will attempt to explain -- simply because you 'can't' because what I am about to explain goes against the grain of your belief. ?A belief is a difficult thing to shake in a person, because it goes to the core of who they are. ?To change that core requires a monumental event, something that happens within themselves, NOT words on a computer screen. ?But... I will explain it, to the best of my ability, although I do realize that I'm going to be banging my head against a wall at this point.

Prayer requires a great deal of focus... a huge amount of mind power. ?The human mind is an extremely powerful thing, and can make things happen that we cannot even conceive. ? ?For a person who is at a very low place in their life, to open up their mind to ask for help from ?something that they may not even believe actually exists, takes a great deal of mind power. ?Once you've set that in motion, your mind can make ?things happen that are truly remarkable. ?THAT IS WHAT ?HAPPENED when I prayed when I was down and out and looking for a way. ?

How can I sit here now, and say with complete confidence that is what happened? ?Because, since discarding the faith, I've continued much of the same practice, but through spellcasting. ?I realize you are going to say spellcasting and prayer are two different things, I assure you, they are not. ?They are both the same thing. ?I know, because I've done both... Actually, I've spellcasted as a wiccan, which is the same thing, and I have since spellcasted since discarding wicca, and they are all the same thing. ?Basically, the only thing that changes is the god/goddess/entity you address in your envocation.

What came to me when I believed was all that my mind could handle at the moment... I was so lost and distraught that I could not fathom that my mind would have been able to accomplish greatness, but I could handle the idea that someone up there was watching out for me, so that is what my life adopted, my life started to turn around for the better, and back then, if anyone had told me what I am telling you now, I would have simply shook my head and said something like, "you don't know, because you can't possibly have felt what I felt." ?Yes... much like you're doing there. ?

OK... finished banging my head against the wall for now.?

I see what you're saying. I have not experienced Jesus, or any external power, on a personal level. I choose to be a Christian because it makes more sense to me to be a Christian than any other religion. I grew up in a Soviet bloc country where religion was banned, so it wasn't' something that was handed down to me. And I'm not an atheist because I believe that due to its complexity, life must have been created by some power that exists outside of our universe. It is virtually statistically impossible for proteins to have combined the way they have to form even a primitive bacteria by chance. Many scientists are reluctant to admit that because academia has been hijacked by atheist Marxists, and if you say something to that effect, you lose funding and become a pariah. Just look at the furor caused by the mere mention of Intelligent Design. But, in spite of all the attempts, no one has been able to show that spontaneous generation of life can occur. Note that I'm not saying that darwinian evolution does not occur. I just think that someone started the process and probably guided it along the way. That's where my belief comes from. But I think it's interesting how ever so often people pray to God when they are in a rut, but then denounce Him once they become better off. Maybe what you experienced was only an illusion that God helped you, or maybe you have been tricked you into thinking it was an illusion. I'm not saying it's one or the other, but just something to think about.

[SLCPUNK]

If jousting with shadows and strawmen is your thing, then go for it with somebody else.

I am tired of repeating myself to somebody who is stuck on stupid...

Okay. I'm completely comfortable with the argument I made. At least I admit that I'm wrong when I'm wrong and I don't falsely accuse others of twisting my words or jousting with strawmen because I can't come up with a real defense.

Since I'm sick today and in a bad mood I will continue to argue on this point.

 The price of oil is dependent on supply (as we have agreed on), and the problem becomes: where else are we going to get it? It is not just us bidding for it any more, it is the Chinese, India, etc, and every drop that goes on the global market is sold the minute it hits. Hence the high prices now. If anything cause total oil supply to be less than what it is, the Chinese have huge cash reserves to bid against us for what IS available, thereby driving the price up, and hurting this country's economy.

[kathryn2662]

 But I think it's interesting how ever so often people pray to God when they are in a rut, but then denounce Him once they become better off. Maybe what you experienced was only an illusion that God helped you, or maybe you have been tricked you into thinking it was an illusion. I'm not saying it's one or the other, but just something to think about.

I think about that too, how people do do that, and I dont understand why.  They use God as a feeling, not a conviction.  They only come to Him when they want something, and get mad when He isnt there for them, but where are they for Him?

[SLCPUNK]

To paraphrase Nietsche, there is no original text, everything is interpretation. Hence everything is opinion. Some opinions are more widespread than others.

[SLCPUNK]

If you are going to hold the ten commandments as truth, then you must also hold slavery and murder as truths also? Since they are rampant in the old testament.

[kathryn2662]

But you are still telling me that my beliefs are wrong, because yes in my belief I can say that I FACTUALLY and TRUTHFULLY by all the definitions out of man's dictionary say that I know Jesus, what the afterlife is and holds, and I can PROVE Him as He has proven and made Himself real to me. ?Yes, in your point of view, and in the world's point of view, I can see how you think it's not real proof or truth, but in MY BELIEFS it is, an who are you to tell me that my belief is wrong. ?I honestly 100% KNOW FOR FACT that my God is real, I have a living breathing Savior who is risen and alive and in my life daily and has shown and made Himself real to me through His actions, words, love, and miracles. ?He talks to me daily as I talk to Him, He provides breakthroughs and mircales for me and others I witness, I see Him move through other people's lives, I feel His presence that He makes real, and I feel and see His truth, in my beliefs that is fact, in my belief it is proof.

[kathryn2662]

That's not called being contradictory, how you are looking at my words would be considered hypocrisy, not a contradiction. ?Because Im not telling you that your experiences are wrong by saying that something is 100% impossible, I never said that you werent a christian before, I never said that you werent a strong and powerful christian, I believe that you were, I believe that it's possible, but being a powerful big christian is something completely different than having an experience with Jesus where He works and moves through you to where you see what the purpose and meaning of life is which is to out of Love give your own life to Him with no asking to return it back, it's when His purpose becomes your purpose, where you live your life to do the things of God's purpose, that doesnt mean living holy and living sinless, it means getting Godly wisdom (which isnt knowing a bunch of facts, Godly wisdom is knowing God's wisdom and words and applying that to your life) and by being empowered by God to do His will, which is reaching out to people and getting into the world and bring salvation, to help the broken, to help the hurting, to help the less fortunate whether it be financially broken people or broken hearted people, but to make your passion people which is His passion, and do the work that Jesus let us to finish to do, you lay your life down to build His kingdom up, you bring Heaven to earth and bring answers and bring breakthrough and bring help and bring passion to others because you have been empowered to do and live the work and will and love of God, where you take your eyes off your desires and stop putting yourself and your life and school work and your job and everything else first, and put Him first, and in return He gives you all that stuff afterwards, ?where you stop looking at your own beliefs and you stop focusing on what you think and how you think things should be and start putting His beliefs first and making His thoughts be your thoughts, and you lay down all that you create to start creating what He wants done, and in return- everything you sacrifice to follow Him- all your desires and dreams, He not only returns them to you- but in such an adbundance that you could never concieve of the amount, and the two of you live life building eachother up, and you do His will then He does yours in return, it's something that even when you walk away from Jesus, even when you deny that life, and leave it, you always keep it in your heart and there's something in there that never leaves Him and in the back of your mind, maybe I should have been more clear with the 100% impossible statement- I was wrong in saying that, because you can have an experience and walk away, but once you talk about experience with Jesus is where you entire my belief system that you may walk away but there is half of your heart that hasnt, because surrendering your heart for the love of Jesus through an experience to me in my beliefs never returns back to you because your love is forever bound to Him even when you walk away. ?So the reason why I made that statement, is because I wasnt talking about you being wrong- I was talking about my belief that you dont turn away once you have an experience (which however you take it, ?I cant help if you feel and choose to take it that Im saying your wrong), I would never deny your past christianity, or your experiences, but in my belief- when I say you cant walk away after an experience- I mean your heart, there is still apart of your heart that is given in the sacrifice. Yes even you haha, could have had an experience, Im not saying that it's impossible (so yes I was wrong in saying that 100% statement) because I believe anything is possible and the impossible IS possible, and every person IS different and have their OWN INDIVIDUAL story, maybe it was through disapointment and let down that turned you off and away, but I can promise that that wasnt how God entitle it for your life and how He wanted it to be for you.

(it wont let me post the rest all in one, it says I have exceeded the limit, so then continuence is after this post)