What was the purpose of the 2002 tour?

[nesquick]

Although the shows were good, in term of strategy it was a mistake: you don't go on tour without promoting anything. Plus, the band was totally different of what it used to be in the old days and people weren't interested. Only a great album supported by a massive promotion strategy (and I mean really massive - something ala Illusion erea) would bring people and save the band from a second split. I don't think the band would survive with a 2nd split. It would be the end. So CD is really important.

[tHeElEcTrIcSiNtAr]

You're right, Madison Square Garden sold out in only 20 minutes. The Philly shows were sold out. Hartford was pretty much sold out, I was there. Boston and the London and Toronto shows were pretty packed. But, no one was interested.?

I think the real reason why the shows that were only half filled or whatever were like that because people werent sure if Axl would actually show up cause of what happened with Vancouver, not because of lack of interest. And yes, the promotion was really bad too. I think I heard a radio ad once, and I never saw the tv comercial that was made.

[nesquick]

yes but only in those big cities. The average crowd of the US 2002 tour was around 9.000 people (attendance) while most arenas were 15.000 people capacity +. Most of arenas were half and 2/3 full. Promoters were loosing money. Plus there were 2 riots. It became really complicated to continue the tour. But once again, it was a? problem of promotion.

[Kitano]

It would seem that the negative reaction from the press to the 2002 tour may have had some bearing on the the continued delay of CD.  It's all speculation at the moment but it's not unreasonable to assume that if Axl was prepared to go on tour in 2002 he may have thought that CD was close to being finished.  The negative reviews and other problems that were associated with the tour may be the reason why we haven't gotten a release date.

That's one theory, the other is that he wanted to make some money to keep the record company off his back so that he could keep on working on CD without them hassling him for a release date.

[axlsalinger]

Do I have to get AXL's quotes out all over again?!! Before the tour he said it was "time to wrap up the baby" and intimated that the record was done to www.gnronline.com, he showed the album cover to the crowd in Hong Kong, he told a crowd in Europe how many tracks would be on the record, he told a girl backstage at a show the name of the first single, and record stores had "Chinese Democracy" promos in their possession. The album was set to come out in December, 2002 at some point, folks.

What happened on that tour and overnight after the MSG show, no one can say. But by the time of the VMA's, Axl had decided that "soon" was not the word, and shortly thereafter descended back into his cocoon, to emerge only once since then with a letter informing us we'd hear news in a few months TWO YEARS AGO.

And I am generally an Axl apologist!

[jimmythegent]

Do I have to get AXL's quotes out all over again?!! Before the tour he said it was "time to wrap up the baby" and intimated that the record was done to www.gnronline.com, he showed the album cover to the crowd in Hong Kong, he told a crowd in Europe how many tracks would be on the record, he told a girl backstage at a show the name of the first single, and record stores had "Chinese Democracy" promos in their possession. The album was set to come out in December, 2002 at some point, folks.

What happened on that tour and overnight after the MSG show, no one can say. But by the time of the VMA's, Axl had decided that "soon" was not the word, and shortly thereafter descended back into his cocoon, to emerge only once since then with a letter informing us we'd hear news in a few months TWO YEARS AGO.

And I am generally an Axl apologist!

CD promos? never heard that - please elaborate?

[axlsalinger]

There were a number of reports at that time that some record stores had received promotional material in the form of postcard-sized "Chinese Democracy" signs or display notices, if I remember correctly. I was pretty convinced at the time that several senior posters on this board had confirmed their existence, I suppose I could be wrong about that though.

[Pandora]

There were a number of reports at that time that some record stores had received promotional material in the form of postcard-sized "Chinese Democracy" signs or display notices, if I remember correctly. I was pretty convinced at the time that several senior posters on this board had confirmed their existence, I suppose I could be wrong about that though.

The only postcard-sized promotional material I've come across is this :
http://gnrcollectibles.free.fr/html/misc/2002tourpostcard.htm

It's promotion for the tour. Is this what you're talking about?

[WARose]

as axl said in various shows( i think albany was one of them for sure) he just wanted to play something like a farewell to the old songs at that time and get the band out of the studio to have some fun. maybe it was also because chinesedemocracy was nearly finished, but imo axl planned to release it only until the day of the vmas. after that he wasn`t that positive about a release. it starts with " soon is not the word"...

well i think this was the main plan, but as some of you allready said it was strategically a mistake.

[jameslofton29]

Yeah, I always thought it was strange how Axl seemed so positive about CD until the VMA's happened. I cant even imagine what changed his outlook. There was such a huge buzz after the VMA's, and he threw it all away. Could anyone have imagined that 3 years after the VMA's we would still be speculating about Chinese Democracy?

[nesquick]

The VMA happened a thursday night I think. VMA's are always on Thursday. It was re-boadcasted the following weelk-end on MTV. The whole ceremony was a present for Axl and the new band, it was like "this ceremony is for you", Jimmy Falcon and the whole Staff at MTV were working for the GN'R apparition. we could thank MTV for that.? If Chinese Democracy were released the next Tuesday, it would have been the 1st week biggest sales ever. the buzz was massive during a couple of days. and then it was gone.

[killingvector]

The 2002 tour wasn't a mistake, for the most part. Axl should have stuck to larger cities and Thursday-Saturday shows instead of doing these remote arenas in the middle of the week. Boise Idaho on a cold Tuesday night isn't too promotable.

But don't let the sour numbers dissuade you. For a band touring without an album to promote and almost no promotion backing the tour itself, GnR did very well in the big markets. Very well. If only Boise, Tacoma, Pittsburgh...and a few others weren't there to water down the numbers.

[younggunner]

If the album was supposed to come out in 2002 why did Axl tell Loder that they would go back and do some more recording after the North American leg of the tour...which would have eneded in January 2003?

I truly believe the album was almost done and would have been out sometime in 2003/04. then the whole Bucket thing threw the plans off. And ever since..well...

Your right KV. They should have done a quick major city only tour. They would have sold out all the venues and owuld have had a more positive buzz in regards to attendance. DO that go back to the studio. Come back with CD....things could have been so much different.....

I pulled out the VMAs today. What a performance. They had the momentum. Then it went down the tubes.

[pilferk]

There were a number of reports at that time that some record stores had received promotional material in the form of postcard-sized "Chinese Democracy" signs or display notices, if I remember correctly. I was pretty convinced at the time that several senior posters on this board had confirmed their existence, I suppose I could be wrong about that though.

The only postcard-sized promotional material I've come across is this :
http://gnrcollectibles.free.fr/html/misc/2002tourpostcard.htm

It's promotion for the tour. Is this what you're talking about?

FYI, that stuff was passed out to the street team for promotion.  I had (and might still have stashed somewhere) a bunch of it left.....

But I do know that at least one retailer had been told to have a circular ad promoing the release of CD in Dec of '02....but were then told, a bit later, to scrap it.

[pilferk]

If the album was supposed to come out in 2002 why did Axl tell Loder that they would go back and do some more recording after the North American leg of the tour...which would have eneded in January 2003?

I truly believe the album was almost done and would have been out sometime in 2003/04. then the whole Bucket thing threw the plans off. And ever since..well...

Your right KV. They should have done a quick major city only tour. They would have sold out all the venues and owuld have had a more positive buzz in regards to attendance. DO that go back to the studio. Come back with CD....things could have been so much different.....

I pulled out the VMAs today. What a performance. They had the momentum. Then it went down the tubes.

Because, by that point, they'd changed their minds (or, rather, I suspect HE had changed HIS mind) about the release.

My speculation, of course.

I think that, during the organization of the world tour, the plan was to release the album in Dec of '02..but by the time the US leg of the tour actually rolled around to happening, that plan had changed.  I also think CC was pissed about the change, because they had figured that GnR were going to have, based on what was said during the planning phase of the tour, a new album to tour behind.  I think that was the first thing that annoyed CC...no new album.  Then, the first riot happened, and they were even more steemed.  Then Philly happened and they just decided to pull the plug, fed up.

Again, all my speculation.

[Saul]

I think the 2002 tour was axl's idea of diving in and finding the monkey. 

[jameslofton29]

Saul, I have a feeling that he didn't find it. 

[Booker Floyd]

I truly believe the album was almost done and would have been out sometime in 2003/04. then the whole Bucket thing threw the plans off. And ever since..well...

"In the meantime rather than dwelling on the negative, Guns will be moving forward and surprisingly (without giving away any details) this unfortunate set of circumstances may have given us the opportunity to take our recording that one extra step further."

 

[jameslofton29]

Booker, that statement still makes me laugh. Buckethead probably laughs so hard that his mask falls off from time to time.

[jimmythegent]

yeah thats hilarious alright

That press statement is up there with the best of 'em alright

i think the OMG press release was possibly takes the cake though