Axl's "Dive in and find the monkey" comment

[the dirt]

the exact words allegedly he wrote to a fan were

"The new band will have all kinds of styles. We just wanted to shake up
the old timers and let the kids know somethin's comin'. Looks like it
worked. I watch all the cheap shots people take out of ignorance and
it just doesn't cease to amaze me. It's funny, just cause you give a
monkey a computer doesn't mean he won't crap his huggies!"

Maybe it was the same monkey.

I think this one was a different monkey.

[Axl4Prez2004]

  Younggunner, you are correct in your observations.  It looks like we're outnumbered though. 

  Oh well...I just don't get it...has anybody else here heard the stuff Duff and Slash did after GNR and before VR?  I'd like everyone to listen to that closely.  If you listen closely enough, you can actually hear the album that would have sealed GNR's fate...ultimate failure.  Yes, I know, all the haters are gonna chime in and say Axl has failed...but I disagree.  You have to have tried to fail.  (and yes, I'm aware some will say, "Better to try and fail, than never to have tried at all.")  But I don't think that holds in this case.  I personally think GNR would be worse off had they released the dud I think they'd have released in '96 or '97.  That's just my 2 cents.   

 
Axl4Prez2004   

[Booker Floyd]

?? Oh well...I just don't get it...has anybody else here heard the stuff Duff and Slash did after GNR and before VR?? I'd like everyone to listen to that closely.? If you listen closely enough, you can actually hear the album that would have sealed GNR's fate...ultimate failure.? Yes, I know, all the haters are gonna chime in and say Axl has failed...but I disagree.? You have to have tried to fail.? (and yes, I'm aware some will say, "Better to try and fail, than never to have tried at all.")? But I don't think that holds in this case.? I personally think GNR would be worse off had they released the dud I think they'd have released in '96 or '97.? That's just my 2 cents.? ?

 
Axl4Prez2004? ?

Thats all personal opinion...the issue is attributing Slashs refusal to adhere to Axls vision to "laziness" when its not.  Slash wasnt interested in making industrial/electronic/"alternative" music, it has nothing to do with laziness whatsoever.  He wanted to make straight-ahead "GNR-style" rock.  Apparently thats what Axl supposedly wanted, but despite being interested in making a "Slash record" and Slash creating the "meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith?s Rocks," he didnt do it.  So musical differences, yes.  Laziness?  Absolutely not.

[jameslofton29]

Axl4Prez, that was a bold statement you just made. Ive heard those albums, and I disagree. If you take the best songs from the members solo material, add a few Axl ballads, it would have been pretty good. Not AFD, thats for sure. But it would have been good enough for that time. GNR could have done an average album in 1995-96, and still recovered. There was plenty of time to redeem themselves. Thats not the case anymore. CD is Axl's one and only chance to redeem himself. After CD is released, he either gets his respect back or becomes an irrelevant footnote in the history of music. If anything would have sealed the band's fate, it is what Axl was working on in 97-98. If Oh My God is the best from those industrial techno sessions, then Im glad it never surfaced.

[Jamie]

? Younggunner, you are correct in your observations.? It looks like we're outnumbered though.?

? Oh well...I just don't get it...has anybody else here heard the stuff Duff and Slash did after GNR and before VR?? I'd like everyone to listen to that closely.? If you listen closely enough, you can actually hear the album that would have sealed GNR's fate...ultimate failure.? Yes, I know, all the haters are gonna chime in and say Axl has failed...but I disagree.? You have to have tried to fail.? (and yes, I'm aware some will say, "Better to try and fail, than never to have tried at all.")? But I don't think that holds in this case.? I personally think GNR would be worse off had they released the dud I think they'd have released in '96 or '97.? That's just my 2 cents.? ?

 
Axl4Prez2004? ?

Yeah, well one man's dud is another man's gem, I personally think with some of the bad-ass riffs on Slash's Snakepit's first offering, combined with Axl's voice could have been an excellent album.

[sic.]

Thats all personal opinion...the issue is attributing Slashs refusal to adhere to Axls vision to "laziness" when its not.  Slash wasnt interested in making industrial/electronic/"alternative" music, it has nothing to do with laziness whatsoever.

 

Right, that's not laziness.

He wanted to make straight-ahead "GNR-style" rock.

Forget what you think Axl proposed as an alternative. The whole point is, Slash didn't want to do anything but "straight-ahead "GNR-style" rock". And that's laziness in a sense of taking the easy way out. Leave Axl out of this for a moment and ask yourself whether Slash known as an experimental musician or a one-trick pony as a blues-based guitarist (admittedly one of the very best).

The man's track record doesn't lie. A workaholic can still be attributed with the word 'lazy', just depends how you look at it.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Its not called dive in and find the monkey, but that basically describes it. Its this huge tank of balls adn they use it for like kids birthday parties etc.

Haven't we heard that Axl had one of those ball pits for the kids to play in at one of the halloween parties?

[Booker Floyd]

Forget what you think Axl proposed as an alternative. The whole point is, Slash didn't want to do anything but "straight-ahead "GNR-style" rock". And that's laziness in a sense of taking the easy way out.

And as Ive already explained, its only the easy way out if Slash wanted to do something different and was too lazy to follow through...thats not the case.? He simply didnt want to do Axls music, end of story.? He wasnt into it on a creative level.

Leave Axl out of this for a moment and ask yourself whether Slash known as an experimental musician or a one-trick pony as a blues-based guitarist (admittedly one of the very best).

Its still irrelevant to the main point.? The point is that Slash didnt agree with Axls vision on a creative level.? That being the case (and it is the case) how can he possibly escape being tagged as "lazy" by a few Axl die-hards?? Because you guys are inventing new meanings for the word when it simply doesnt apply to Slash in any way.?

The fact is, Slash did do different things on UYI, and may have done similar things on the next record...but not what Axl wanted to do.? An "experimental" musician?? Not really, but a very accomplished musician whos since touched on blues, flamenco, and many styles of rock.? The problem is you equating disagreement with Axls ideas to laziness.? ?

The man's track record doesn't lie. A workaholic can still be attributed with the word 'lazy', just depends how you look at it.

Youre right, his track record doesnt lie.? Hes done songs with Spanish pop singers to Lemmy Kilmeister to Ray Charles.? His track is long and actually quite varied.? But he had his own idea of what GNR should be and couldnt follow Axls vision, and Ill state it again: Disagreeing with Axls ideas (digressions into electronic/industrial) doesnt make him lazy...in any sense.? Call him stubborn if you must, but please quit twisting the meaning of the word "lazy" to justify this false notion.?

In fact...Explain to me what kind of hard work is required on Slashs part in allowing GNR to move into an electronic or industrial direction?? And tell me, if his heart genuinely isnt into that style, how can he refuse to do it without being labeled as somehow lazy?

[sic.]

Look Booker, here's thing with you in this conversation. You constantly digress in your replies whenever someone applies the term 'lazy' to Slash. You take it completely out of the intended context by dragging "Axl's vision" into it.

Forget what you think Axl proposed as an alternative.

The point is that Slash didnt agree with Axls vision on a creative level.

 

No, I was personally talking about in which ways Slash could be considered lazy. That was my point.

Because you guys are inventing new meanings for the word when it simply doesnt apply to Slash in any way.

How about routines? How about doing things "the old way", because you're too lazy to seek / try out alternative methods?
 

The problem is you equating disagreement with Axls ideas to laziness. 

For the record: Disagreeing with Axl is ok by me. His decision. Not doing it Axl's way, not lazy. 
 

But he had his own idea of what GNR should be and couldnt follow Axls vision,

And that idea was, in your opinion, "straight-ahead "GNR-style" rock". How's this: Slash was so fixated in the said idea, that practically anything Axl would've thrown in his direction would've broken the formula and thus, gotten rejected. Axl didn't want to do the same routine all over again - Slash apparently did. Axl wanted to experiment with the GNR music - Slash apparently didn't, because he had his idea. While experiments always include a risk of going awry (e.g. My World), they can also breath new air into the output and prove out to be more rewarding then walking along the beaten path.

In this sense, I still say Slash can be called 'lazy'.

Call him stubborn if you must, but please quit twisting the meaning of the word "lazy" to justify this false notion.

I'm too lazy to grant your wish there.
 

In fact...Explain to me what kind of hard work is required on Slashs part in allowing GNR to move into an electronic or industrial direction?  And tell me, if his heart genuinely isnt into that style, how can he refuse to do it without being labeled as somehow lazy?

If Slash would've tried out doing some of Axl's ideas (whatever they might've been) and given them a fair shot, and then said: "Dude, I just can't do this, it's not my thing", I wouldn't have called him lazy. In fact, I would've applauded him on going out of his way to try them out.

Instead, he chose not try. This I call lazy.

[Booker Floyd]

Look Booker, here's thing with you in this conversation. You constantly digress in your replies whenever someone applies the term 'lazy' to Slash. You take it completely out of the intended context by dragging "Axl's vision" into it.

Thats what this is about.? The word is only being applied to Slash in regards to the vision of the UYI follow-up.? Because nobodys foolish enough to imply that Slash is lazy by the actual definition, so some of you have to take creative license with the meaning of the word.?

No, I was personally talking about in which ways Slash could be considered lazy. That was my point.

Right, using your own personal definition of the word.

How about routines? How about doing things "the old way", because you're too lazy to seek / try out alternative methods?

This is the frustrating part for me, to point out the same thing clearly at least three times and still see that people dont get it.? Slash wanted to do things "the old way," yes.? Where youre wrong is the second part of that sentence.? Its not because he was too lazy to "try out alternative methods."? Thats simply not the reason in any sense.? Its because he likes doing things "the old way."? He likes the "GNR-style" sound, and thats what he wanted for GNR.? Now youll say "Yeah, he liked that sound because he was too lazy..." and thats when Ill know conclusively that you just dont get it.? I hope that you do get it.? Thats just the style of music Slash loves and wanted for GNR, especially at that time where they had just done the "experimental" album and he wanted a return-to-form.? As I said, for one to be too lazy to try out alternative methods, they have to want to do them in the first place.? If not, then any later refusals are not because of laziness, but other reasons such as geuine disinterest and disagreement.
?

For the record: Disagreeing with Axl is ok by me. His decision. Not doing it Axl's way, not lazy.

I meant disageeing with Axl in this instance.? Slash is being labeled lazy because he doesnt share Axls enthusiasm for experimenting with industrial or "alternative" music.?
 

And that idea was, in your opinion, "straight-ahead "GNR-style" rock". How's this: Slash was so fixated in the said idea, that practically anything Axl would've thrown in his direction would've broken the formula and thus, gotten rejected. Axl didn't want to do the same routine all over again - Slash apparently did. Axl wanted to experiment with the GNR music - Slash apparently didn't, because he had his idea. While experiments always include a risk of going awry (e.g. My World), they can also breath new air into the output and prove out to be more rewarding then walking along the beaten path.


In this sense, I still say Slash can be called 'lazy'.

By what sense of the definition?? Youre using the wrong word.

I'm too lazy to grant your wish there.

Again, youre using the wrong word...
 

If Slash would've tried out doing some of Axl's ideas (whatever they might've been) and given them a fair shot, and then said: "Dude, I just can't do this, it's not my thing", I wouldn't have called him lazy. In fact, I would've applauded him on going out of his way to try them out.

Instead, he chose not try. This I call lazy.

So you think that Slash doesnt already know what industrial music sounds like?? Especially Axls version of industrial ("My World")?? Why would he waste time trying to make music he already knows hes not interested in making, especially under the GNR name?? To placate Axl?? So if Axl decided that he wanted to put some rap, or maybe some opera, on the record and Slash objected on principle, he would labeled lazy by your logic.? Slash already knew it wasnt his thing, and also knew what his thing was, and thats what he wanted to do.  He encouraged Axl to do the industrial thing, he just didnt want it imposed on GNR, and that happened to be the band consensus apparently.

And you didnt answer my first question, so Ill ask again: What hard work would is required on Slashs part to participate in Axls vision of making industrial-style music?

Because when we think about it, doesnt it seem a lot easier for Slash?? Most of the "industrialization" of the music is done in production, and the guitar work itself most certainly wouldnt have been very technically demanding for him.? So what "hard work" did it really require?? The fact is he had a geunine disinterest in making that kind of music, and a genuine interest in making a "GNR" record because thats what he loved and thats what he wanted for GNR.? Laziness doesnt figure into the equation.

[spacebrain5000]

dude, its not about technical skill
or anything of that sort
it's about creative/artistic evolution
.....of which slash has next to zero



say what you want about my world, or oh my god, or whatever, at least axl's not making and rehashing the same old shit. axl's a true artist 

[DOASHK]

too bad contraband is better than oh my god and my world eh?
who says people have to evolve, if something works, don't have to change it

[younggunner]

who says people have to evolve, if something works, don't have to change it

You can say that but if GNr never put out CD atleast we will have CD,Madagascar,IRS,TB along with the old stuff . WIth SLash are you gonna even go back to snakepit?

[Falcon]

who says people have to evolve, if something works, don't have to change it

You can say that but if GNr never put out CD atleast we will have CD,Madagascar,IRS,TB along with the old stuff . WIth SLash are you gonna even go back to snakepit?

No, you refer to Slither, STB, Superhuman etc.?

Some continually mistake spending time on something you have no belief in as some sort of progression as a musician, I consider it artistic blasphemy.

Some also continually portray Axl's vision as being some sort of higher musical calling, horseshit.
One could argue Axl's lack of vision and his blatant attemtps to play to different trends has left him so far behind the game his chance at current relevence diminishes with every passing day.

On the other hand, it could also be argued that Slash's insistence on not following Axl into the road of
the musical abyss gave him the opportunity to move forward as a player and solidify his identity away from his prior band.
 

[Booker Floyd]

who says people have to evolve, if something works, don't have to change it

You can say that but if GNr never put out CD atleast we will have CD,Madagascar,IRS,TB along with the old stuff . WIth SLash are you gonna even go back to snakepit?

Personally, yes.? Theres quite a few solid overall Snakepit songs: "Beggars & Hangers On," "Back & Forth Again," "Serial Killer," "Aint Life Grand," "I Hate Everybody But You," "The Truth," "Just Like Anything," "Right Back To The Moment," and perhaps a few others.? Then theres songs like "Be The Ball" and others which are actually very good musically but suffer because of the vocals and thats the main issue I think most people have with Snakepit in general.? Had Axl helped with those songs, it wouldve been a much different animal.? As for the new GNR songs, I like "Madagascar," "The Blues," and "Chinese Democracy" a lot, but I really dont go back to them any more than those Snakepit songs.

And as Falcon pointed out, you left out VR which Ive been listening to consistently for over a year.

[madagas]

Slash hasn't solidified anything with Velvet Revolver-sorry. He is still the axeman for Guns N' Fuckin Roses-end of discussion. Just like Jimmy Page didn't create a new identity with The Firm. This talk about progression and evolution as an artist is just horseshit. Slash is what he is and is (the most important thing) happy with it. He has made no steps forward or backward-he just stays in place. Axl, on the other hand, has done nothing so how the fuck can anyone say he has stepped backward or forward? I don't give a shit what he says...you can only judge the music. We have heard 7 songs from the new Gnr. He steps forward-backward-sideways-and everywhere else. He is all over the map. People need to put things in context. Evolving as an individual artist is different than being a trend setter for the industry. I have never heard Axl say he wants to be a cutting edge performer. Personally, I just think he wanted to do something different for himself. Just as UYI was an artistic evolution from AFD, hopefully, Chinese will be an evolution from UYI. It doesn't mean it will be an earth shattering event or will influence every band for the next decade, it will just be something different for Axl. ?

[ppbebe]

the exact words allegedly he wrote to a fan were
It's funny, just cause you give a
monkey a computer doesn't mean he won't crap his huggies!"

Maybe it was the same monkey.

I think this one was a different monkey.

I don't know.
With this monkey, I imaged a clockwork monkey toy that clashes his cymbals. A bit of computerisation would enable it to beat more and complicated rhythms. Those Old fashioned toys are nice tho.

And you didnt answer my first question, so Ill ask again: What hard work would is required on Slashs part to participate in Axls vision of making industrial-style music?

Learning  the up-to- date technology from scratch while keeping the clock work?

[Booker Floyd]

Slash hasn't solidified anything with Velvet Revolver-sorry. He is still the axeman for Guns N' Fuckin Roses-end of discussion. Just like Jimmy Page didn't create a new identity with The Firm.

While Im sure you would like to believe this, the fact is that VR are already more successful then The Firm. ?No, Slashs tenure in VR wont overshadow his tenure in GNR, but today hes Slash from Velvet Revolver, and that status is cemented further everyday with each accomplishment they make. ?

Learning  the up-to- date technology from scratch while keeping the clock work?

Why would he have to learn it?  Would he be producing the album?  Adding sound effects and such?

[Falcon]

Slash hasn't solidified anything with Velvet Revolver-sorry. He is still the axeman for Guns N' Fuckin Roses-end of discussion.

Sorry madman, that doesn't fly.

Multi platinum record, hit singles, Grammy award and successful tours tend to blow that theory right out of the water.

There's no doubt he'll always be associated with GNR, that's undeniable.

But..

Portraying him as "axeman for Guns N' Fuckin Roses" is nothing more than a historical fact, hardly a present day reality...

[younggunner]

peopel think of Slash they think of GNr not Vr