Axl's "Dive in and find the monkey" comment

[jameslofton29]

OK, lets say the whole snakepit record was rejected by Axl. This brings up an interesting question. Was Gilby's album also rejected? Because some of that album has a GNR vibe. Ever since the first time I heard 'Cure Me Or Kill Me', I could picture Axl singing it and always thought it was meant for GNR. Take the best songs from Pawnshop Guitars, the best songs from Snakepit, the best songs from Believe In Me, and throw in a few Axl ballads, and you've got a pretty damn good GNR record for 94-95.

[younggunner]

Of course it's a lie. Everything is always Axl's fault. Don't you know? 
I bet the reason why VR is so plain and mediocre is somehow Axl's fault too.

 

James, I think what Axl means by Slash being lazy is the fact that he wanted SLash to push the envelope to another leve, another type of sound. Instead of doing the regular GNR stuff Axl wnated to incorportae newer stuff into that. WHether you think thats a right move or not is not the point. But thats what Axl wanted to go with GNR. Slash didnt. Hence we have 2 different bands.

[Booker Floyd]

James, I think what Axl means by Slash being lazy is the fact that he wanted SLash to push the envelope to another leve, another type of sound. Instead of doing the regular GNR stuff Axl wnated to incorportae newer stuff into that.

Thats not laziness.

[madagas]

Correct. That is simply a difference in opinion and taste-the classic "musical differences." The reason why a thousand other bands have broke up-no more no less.

[younggunner]

it could be considered laziness. Maybe Slash didnt want to put in the time to develop a new sound. Maybe it was easier for him to make a great bluesy riff instead of doin something else.

but overall its a difference of opion,musical direction and tatse.

[makane]

it could be considered laziness. Maybe Slash didnt want to put in the time to develop a new sound. Maybe it was easier for him to make a great bluesy riff instead of doin something else.

but overall its a difference of opion,musical direction and tatse.

Come on, you can't be seriouse.

[PJ]

it could be considered laziness. Maybe Slash didnt want to put in the time to develop a new sound. Maybe it was easier for him to make a great bluesy riff instead of doin something else.

but overall its a difference of opion,musical direction and tatse.

Come on, you can't be seriouse.

why if you can reinvent yourself and be great you would do the same things and be mediocre?

[Booker Floyd]

it could be considered laziness. Maybe Slash didnt want to put in the time to develop a new sound.

No.  Slash didnt want a "new sound," so time is irrelevant.  So again, its not laziness, and no amount of word-twisting can change that.

[Falcon]

Attempting to pass off Slash as "lazy" ridiculous.?

There's a huge difference in "lazy" and flat out not believing in a musical direction, not being inspired to follow a lead you see as a step in the wrong direction, a step backwards. 

[younggunner]

im not trying to pass Slash off as lazy. He has done a lot more than Axl since leaving the band. But he was content with what he was doing att the time. And as time has shown he was sadly worng in that style of playing. See Snakepit/VR.

[Falcon]

... And as time has shown he was sadly worng in that style of playing. See Snakepit/VR.

That's your opinion, which is fine. 

However, characterizing Slash's playing style as "wrong" is for lack of a better term, "wrong" in and of itself.  His progression as a player might not agree with your taste, but it seems your taste for Slash oriented guitar work begins and ends with GNR.



 

[jarmo]

Lazy as in too lazy to try something new, something more difficult. It could also be said as not being interested in evolving.

Or the old "musical differences". 



Not lazy as in "too lazy to work". There's a difference.


/jarmo

[Falcon]

Lazy as in too lazy to try something new, something more difficult. It could also be said as not being interested in evolving.

Or the old "musical differences".?



Not lazy as in "too lazy to work". There's a difference.


/jarmo

Sure there's a difference, but even characterizing it as lazy in a sense of "not being interested in evolving" is off the mark as well.? As I mentioned before, he obviously didn't believe in Axl's vision, viewing it as a step backward.? Moving ahead in a direction you have no faith in is hardly evolution, it's more of a betrayal to your own musical progression.

[Booker Floyd]

im not trying to pass Slash off as lazy.

You kind of are. ?Youre trying very hard to find reasons why he might be considered lazy instead of just being honest and admitting that the notion of Slash being lazy is nonsense.

He has done a lot more than Axl since leaving the band. But he was content with what he was doing att the time. And as time has shown he was sadly worng in that style of playing. See Snakepit/VR.

As Falcon pointed out, thats your own opinion. ?But I would add that time certainly hasnt shown Axl to be any less wrong. ?See "My World"/Nothing.

Lazy as in too lazy to try something new, something more difficult. It could also be said as not being interested in evolving

But as some of us have pointed out, thats not what the word "lazy" means. ?It means disinclined to work; sluggish or slow-moving; of or inducing idleness. ?Slash is the exact opposite, and I think you, youngunner, and others know this but for some reason you guys seem more interested in inventing new definitions for the word to justify such a clearly false premise.

The word "lazy" means something very specific and we all know that it doesnt apply to Slash who is possibly the hardest-working member of GNR.

"Stubborn" is the word you guys seem to be looking for. ?If it sounds like petty semantics, its really not. ?Theyre two different words, and two different meanings. ?Slash wasnt interested in what Axl wanted for GNR, so he couldnt be too "lazy" to try it - he didnt want to do it, period. ?Musical differences is right, laziness is plainly wrong.

[jimmythegent]

Indeed the notion of suggesting Slash is lazy is an absurd one...

He has kept himself the busiest of all the original members.

You may have problems with what you perceive as a lack of quality control, but that is a different thing entirely

[jimmythegent]

Well, Axl lived up to his predictions #1-4 and 7! Now, I'm still waiting for #6.

haha this cracked me up - he's pretty much acheived all the goals listed on that fax!(bar the small matter of releasing an album!) What a strong work ethic he has!?

[jarmo]

The word "lazy" means something very specific and we all know that it doesnt apply to Slash who is possibly the hardest-working member of GNR.

I disagree. I know what lazy means, but I can see how you could describe somebody who's just comfortable in doing what they've been doing for years, instead of making an extra effort to change things, as lazy.

For example: Like going to a boring job year after year and hating it, but you get paid and it would require an extra effort to actually quit and get a new job. So you keep doing it because it's the most comfortable thing to do.

So in one way that person would be lazy.

In my opinion....


/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

For example: Like going to a boring job year after year and hating it, but you get paid and it would require an extra effort to actually quit and get a new job. So you keep doing it because it's the most comfortable thing to do.

This analogy doesnt work because it would have to assume that Slash wasnt happy with doing what he wanted to do (standard GNR-style rock) and we know thats not the case.  Slash wanted to do that style of music.  He didnt want to do what Axl wanted to do, not because he was too lazy to put in the work, but because he didnt agree with it.  Its not a style of music he wanted to participate in for GNR.  Stubborness perhaps, but not laziness in any sense.

[jarmo]

Of course the example doesn't apply to GN'R. That's why I listed it as an example. 


I still think learning something new requires more effort than doing what you do. For a musician to record 18 songs in his/her old style is probably easier than to record 18 songs in a completely different genre/style.

It's like being told you can't keep your job unless you take a course in how to use a computer. So you say "fuck you, I don't wanna study. I'm going to start my own company where I don't need computers!". 



But I can see what you mean by the stubborn aspect. I think it's just a question of Axl seeing things differently and I can see both sides....



/jarmo

[ppbebe]

oR, Maybe Jarmo's example does apply to GN'R this time? 

To consider the person who doesn't want to work as hard as you as lazier than you, is not wrong, innit?
Apparently Slash was not such an energetic learner as Axl.
In The following Axl reports that Slash said he didn't work that hard?

According to Rose, part of the delay in building the new model of Guns N Roses has been "educating myself" about the technology that's come to define rock in the nineties: "It's like from scratch, learning how to work with something and not wanting it just to be something you did on a computer." At least one of his former band mates didn't really want any part of that process - "Slash told me, 'I don't want to work that hard,' " Rose recalls.
-Axl Speaks     Rolling Stone, January 2000
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=30

Reportedly Axl made another comment about the Monkey later on to a fan. just because a monkey got computers doesn't mean he won't clap his cuddies or something along those lines... perhaps it's another monkey.

Like Dave said, Please post the whole fax or the link. I haven't seen it.

yes, I recall anoher monkey comment as well - its an interesting preoccupation uncle Axl seems to have with monkeys

the exact words allegedly he wrote to a fan were

"The new band will have all kinds of styles. We just wanted to shake up
the old timers and let the kids know somethin's comin'. Looks like it
worked. I watch all the cheap shots people take out of ignorance and
it just doesn't cease to amaze me. It's funny, just cause you give a
monkey a computer doesn't mean he won't crap his huggies!"

Maybe it was the same monkey.

Thanks jimmy for posting the whole fax.
Now I think I Actually have seen it. I remember the last line.
Whatever, it seems to me that '95 was not the best year for him.