Blasts Across London

[nesquick]

What are you talking about? have you read what I wrote? do you think those kamikazes were/are "poor" people? most of them are high educated persons and are very rich. The terrorism money making is like billion and billion dollars in the world. Terrorism is made by? a bunch of guys who want the power and who want to rule the world, like staline, like Hitler, what they want is to achieve their madness and control the world. They don't give a shit about the social problems, what they want is the jihad to rule the world. They just want the power.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

What are you talking about? have you read what I wrote? do you think those kamikazes were/are "poor" people? most of them are high educated persons and are very rich. The terrorism money making is like billion and billion dollars in the world. Terrorism is made by? a bunch of guys who want the power and who want to rule the world, like staline, like Hitler, what they want is to achieve their madness and control the world. They don't give a shit about the social problems, what they want is the jihad to rule the world. They just want the power.

1 the hitler reference has been unleashed.
2 so only poor people can fight ?

3 you're still babbling on them. we know they suck. i wanna hear you say " america, europe, israel.. they're evil too "
tahts what i want. until then you're blind.

[nesquick]

i wanna hear you say " america, europe, israel.. they're evil too "

Would it mean, for you, that every country hit by terrorism are "evil too"? would it mean they deserve those terrorist attacks because according to you, they are "evil too"? So, ladies and gentleman, if your contry is hit by terrorism, in fact it's your fault!

Whatever, you know what? you are illogical in your head. I don't see any logic and rational reflexion in what you say.

Do you consider bali, Egypt, indonesia and all other countries hit by terrorism over these last years that we didn't mention early as "evil too"? Aren't you enough clever to realize you can be a target for terrorism attacks without doing anything special but just because your way of life and your values are not like what these terrorists want them to be?

You bring the responsability notion out there. As if those who have to face to terrorist attacks must be responsibles of something if they are attacked.

is a girl responsible of something when she is raped? Where is the logic?

Do you try to justify/minimize terrorist attacks as you seemed in another forum to justify/minimize the Shoah?

[Will]

their god is just an escuse.
it could be anything.
could be political, economical, religious ... their god is an escuse to fight.

Religious is an excuse for sure. But are you saying they would be fighting no matter what? Because they're poor and envy the West, right?

If that's the issue, then could you answer that question: millions of people are dying every year in Africa because of AIDS, curable diseases, malnutrition; why don't we see Africans blowing themselves up in Western cities because they feel left out? Aren't they as poor as the terrorists? And that's millions dying every year. Again, no excuse for terrorism.

the jihad is not the trigger. it's the escuse. the cover.

The cover for what? Because they're actually good people? Gimme a break, they're fanatics. They're totally insane. I know we do have fanatics in Western countries, and some of them rule countries, but it's still not an excuse to kill innocent British and Spanish people for instance.

And we are evil for sure, our governments have done LOTS of wrong things/ taken LOTS of wrong decisions. Don't forget another thing: Western countries do have their share of poor people. Lots of people in America and Europe are living with less than $1 a day. Poor and left out people aren't just in the Middle East. Poverty is everywhere, some people use poverty with distorted religious views to create terrorism. Those people are dangerous. And I'm not saying I like the fact Bush has got to invoke God every freakin time he makes a speech on TV.

Lots of people in Western are crazy for sure, some of them are insane, some of them are fanatics, the Oklahoma City bombing was done by an American citizen, and it was a few years before 9/11. I still don't find any excuse for terrorists.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

i wanna hear you say " america, europe, israel.. they're evil too "

Would it mean, for you, that every country hit by terrorism are "evil too"? would it mean they deserve those terrorist attacks because according to you, they are "evil too"? So, ladies and gentleman, if your contry is hit by terrorism, in fact it's your fault!

Whatever, you know what? you are illogical in your head. I don't see any logic and rational reflexion in what you say.

Do you consider bali, Egypt, indonesia and all other countries hit by terrorism over these last years that we didn't mention early as "evil too"? Aren't you enough clever to realize you can be a target for terrorism attacks without doing anything special but just because your way of life and your values are not like what these terrorists want them to be?

You bring the responsability notion out there. As if those who have to face to terrorist attacks must be responsibles of something if they are attacked.

is a girl responsible of something when she is raped? Where is the logic?

Do you try to justify/minimize terrorist attacks as you seemed in another forum to justify/minimize the Shoah?

yeah america is a little girl being raped. great metaphore.
im minimizing the purity of our western countries.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

i see what you're saying will;

i think that religion is just a way to use stupid peopple to get what they want. they want to fight. they use religion as tool to control and creates their weapons: terrorism.

the thing we don't get is that, depending on teh side you're on, terrorism / guerrila can look like the weapon of hope and freedom (david fighting goliath), or the weapon of the evil crazies.

taht's it.
terrorism is a horrible thing. but it's just then answer to the horrible thing we did. that's it.

my whole point is that we're not pure and clean. and a lot of people dont want to aknowledge that.

[nesquick]

so what you say is that when you are hit by terrorism, you are responsible right?

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

so what you say is that when you are hit by terrorism, you are responsible right?

did i say that ? no.

btu hey, you might be onto something ... when a dog bites you, is it just for fun or did you provoke him ?
same thing. these terrorist are like dogs, they're stupid and violent. but they do things for a reason.

[Will]

btu hey, you might be onto something ... when a dog bites you, is it just for fun or did you provoke him ?
same thing. these terrorist are like dogs, they're stupid and violent. but they do things for a reason.

Wrong comparison...
Did you hear about pitbulls biting or actually killing new born babies? I doubt the babies provoked them. A person I know actually had to interfere once between a pitbull and a 5 year old who was just walking home. Some dogs attack for no reason, so it doesn't serve your point of view.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

btu hey, you might be onto something ... when a dog bites you, is it just for fun or did you provoke him ?
same thing. these terrorist are like dogs, they're stupid and violent. but they do things for a reason.

Wrong comparison...
Did you hear about pitbulls biting or actually killing new born babies? I doubt the babies provoked them. A person I know actually had to interfere once between a pitbull and a 5 year old who was just walking home. Some dogs attack for no reason, so it doesn't serve your point of view.

gREAT compareason.
just like nesquick pointed out the " little girl getting raped" ... so the western countries are little babies ?
uhuh ?

[Will]

I'm not saying that! I was just saying your comparison was not really accurrate... In many ways, America is actually a baby or more a teenager compared to Europe.

Anyway, we're getting carried away. Let's stick to the topic, which is terrorist alerts in London.

[Surfrider]

Prime Minister Howard:


"Can I just say very directly, Paul, on the issue of the policies of my government and indeed the policies of the British and American governments on Iraq, that the first point of reference is that once a country allows its foreign policy to be determined by terrorism, it's given the game away, to use the vernacular. And no Australian government that I lead will ever have policies determined by terrorism or terrorist threats, and no self-respecting government of any political stripe in Australia would allow that to happen.

Can I remind you that the murder of 88 Australians in Bali took place before the operation in Iraq.

And I remind you that the 11th of September occurred before the operation in Iraq.

Can I also remind you that the very first occasion that bin Laden specifically referred to Australia was in the context of Australia's involvement in liberating the people of East Timor. Are people by implication suggesting we shouldn't have done that?

When a group claimed responsibility on the website for the attacks on the 7th of July, they talked about British policy not just in Iraq, but in Afghanistan. Are people suggesting we shouldn't be in Afghanistan?

When Sergio de Mello was murdered in Iraq -- a brave man, a distinguished international diplomat, a person immensely respected for his work in the United Nations -- when al Qaeda gloated about that, they referred specifically to the role that de Mello had carried out in East Timor because he was the United Nations administrator in East Timor.

Now I don't know the mind of the terrorists. By definition, you can't put yourself in the mind of a successful suicide bomber. I can only look at objective facts, and the objective facts are as I've cited. The objective evidence is that Australia was a terrorist target long before the operation in Iraq. And indeed, all the evidence, as distinct from the suppositions, suggests to me that this is about hatred of a way of life, this is about the perverted use of principles of the great world religion that, at its root, preaches peace and cooperation. And I think we lose sight of the challenge we have if we allow ourselves to see these attacks in the context of particular circumstances rather than the abuse through a perverted ideology of people and their murder."

[nesquick]

new alert in London, Friday 22nd 2005

a suicide-bomber was shot a couple of minutes ago http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050722/140/fnxi9.html

Police Shoot Suspected Suicide Bomber
Police have shot a suspected suicide bomber at a tube station in south London.Reports are also coming in that a mosque in the east of the capital has been surrounded by armed officers and residents told to stay indoors.In the first incident, marksmen opened fire near Stockwell Tube station as passengers were evacuated. It is thought the man was killed.

Alarmed onlookers said they saw up to 10 plain-clothed officers chasing a man before opening fire.

Reports said the suspect was pushed to the ground and shot five times at close range.

Passenger Briony Coetsee said: "We were on the tube and then we suddenly heard someone say 'get out, get out' and then we heard gunshots."

Air and road ambulance crews have been sent to the scene and unconfirmed reports suggest the man was involved in Thursday's assault on the capital.

If the suspect is confirmed to be a suicide bomber, it would mark the fifth attempted terrorist attack on London in less than a day.

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "We can confirm that just after 10am armed officers shot a male at Stockwell underground station."

The man is thought to have been either stepping on to the train or was on the platform.

Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said: "The officer or officers involved in this clearly felt this suspect was about to detonate a bomb."

Police have been given orders to shoot to kill if they believe someone is about to detonate a bomb.

Tube services on the Victoria and Northern Lines were suspended at the request of police.

[Will]

I'm sorry for the Londonians (sp.?) who have to go to work every day and fear those fuckers...

[Prometheus]

I have nothing more to add, Will completed my though perfectly. And as he said, the kamikazes had nothing to do with Irak, don't forget they were english. That totally confirms what I said: the Jihad is like a comun international terrorist value. There are different terrorist movements, but they have all exactly the same comun goal . And yes, that's a war. Not a war like it used to be ( country VS country) , but a more desorganized war, more complexe, more "mobile" (is it the right word in english?).

asymtrical warfare................l....... christ.............


you still have not answered my question and rather dance around answering it. "WHAT IS YOUR ISREAL AFFILATION??"


oh and so you understand something about relgious affilations and upbringins..... i dont have to be from rome to be a roman catholic....... nor have its ideals..... or do i?

Those kamikazes aren't that desperated, it's BS, some of them are hight engineers, doctors, they own cellphone business, I mean, bin-Laden is far from beeing a stupid guy. He is bilionary, he made business, all the 9/11 kamikazes studied in Americans and germans University, they were far from beeing non-intelligent people. It's just they are completely crazy. Their volunty is to kill. Once again, there is one word for that: Nihilism.

oh btw they never paid for themseleves to study at these "colleges" it was footed by Al Quidea itself.... aka uncle Bin's money.

What are you talking about? have you read what I wrote? do you think those kamikazes were/are "poor" people? most of them are high educated persons and are very rich. The terrorism money making is like billion and billion dollars in the world. Terrorism is made by  a bunch of guys who want the power and who want to rule the world, like staline, like Hitler, what they want is to achieve their madness and control the world. They don't give a shit about the social problems, what they want is the jihad to rule the world. They just want the power.

hmm lets break down jihad shall we....

"A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels".

for the "jihad" to rule the world would be for teh jihad to be turned into a political/relgion of its own right. For it to rule teh world it would have to manage a forcd beleif reversial for all those including moderate and liberal muslims...... ya can we say not going to happen in our life time.....

highly educated does not have any bearing about being rich or poor....... not sure where you come from but in all societies there are rather highly skilled/educated persons that are very poor. these "rich" people that you speak of..... were funded b the home cell to get the education. the ones that are on the front lines are not the educate's the educated are teh ones that sit and pull strings.....


and it only took this long to get to Hitler.... hes nothing like hitler. Its insuling to Uncle Laden......lol..... look Hitler had the power of a coutry behind him, laden does not (that power being the infastruture to be able to produce hardware..) laden is all about IED

[nesquick]

make a research. I'm fed up to repeat 10 times the same things.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

make a research. I'm fed up to repeat 10 times the same things.

because you're wrong.
no, not wrong.

but you wont move away from your "pure" opinion.
do you see evil in what israel can do ?
do you see evil in what the US has done to middle east in HISTORY (history does not start on 9/11) ?

or for you, is it just pure evil against pure goodness ?

i think my 'dog' metaphore was very good. and the way you brougt up the little girl / baby compareason just made even stronger. cause the Us and europe are not little babies or little girls getting bitten. they triggered something.
oh yes, the dog must be beaten because he bite the holy human being, but he did it as a RE ACTION. and you fail to see that.

[nesquick]

Nothing can justify to kill people in suicide bombings attacks.
If you think so, let's imagine a member of your family die in a terrorist attack someday, then the following day I will tell you "your member of your familly triggered it", let's see how you're going to react...

What's weird with you is that you absolutely need to justify terrorist attacks, as if they were normals. For me it's not normal and those attacks can't be justified.



 

[Prometheus]

Nothing can justify to kill people in suicide bombings attacks.
If you think so, let's imagine a member of your family die in a terrorist attack someday, then the following day I will tell you "your member of your familly triggered it", let's see how you're going to react...

What's weird with you is that you absolutely need to justify terrorist attacks, as if they were normals. For me it's not normal and those attacks can't be justified.



 

Again..... you have not answered a direct question! stop tring to side step it and answer the question!

another thing, they can be justified, you know why because if you put yourself in their shoes and live the life of that person their is a possibility that you will do the same thing. You may not howver it is a possibility.


im guessing you dont watch star trek..... so ill make it simple.... Picard was faced with his clone, they grew up in differet ways seperated from eachother.... they still thought of things in the  same manner, though because of the experiences that the clone had had in his life he was taking the violent path to further his cause. where Picard is the great moraly driven captain that sees violence as a last resort. However for teh clone he was already at the last resort.


can you at least see what we are saying, everyone no matter who they are has a capicity fr evil and based on their life experiences will determine how they will adapt to new changes or problems. Some one who commits or attempts suicide was not born already set in motion that he/she was going to do it. If you took them out of te situational pressures that has shaped thier life then the chance of them actualy doing it reduces closer to nill.

i will go PLA vs Isreal now.....

cant neogiate with isreal... no matter what they agree too they end up doing something colse to but not exactly what they agreed to. do not deny that. PLA cant make head way... their population is fed up with the process and start bombings to make isreal see that they are not going to take teh BS that they are doing. in return Isreal flattens homes in actual "PLA" road map areas not ones in other areas..... Isreal is building a security fence to save tehm selves fromt eh "evil" muslims...... which enrages the terroists more because they never do what they agree to, so it sparks more attacks, and the ball keeps rlling..... if Isreal would stick word for word to what they agree o attacks would go down and may even stop........ peace would be attained.... is that not what you want?



but wait.... i still dont fucking know if your an israli or not.......


so answer my first damned question

[Prometheus]

and its a valid question to ask and you know it