Blasts Across London

[Jamie]

I would like to say that i think? all UK forces serving in Iraqi are herocic and extrmeley brave - there doing there best to fight the oppresion of the world to the best of there ability, and i dont happen to belive invading Iraq was a bad move. However nuking whole countrys is basically evil on the level of Hitler and Bin Laden.

I'm not going to argue, they're doing their best, I'm sure they are. But I definitely do think invading Iraq was a VERY bad move. More people have died and suffered since the coalition have been in Iraq than when Saddam was in power.

I would rather terrorists were drawn to Iraq where they could be met by UK and US armed forces than operate in the Western world free to attack innocents. I also believe your wrong about death and suffering under Sadaams regime. Considering you have never experienced what it was like and the ultra secretive nature of Sadaams regime you cant really make any judgment on the levels of suffering.

I will admit that I have never had to deal with Saddam's regime. But I just presented FACTS that PROVE the quality of life has dropped in Iraq since the invasion. I didn't just make all that up.

[N.I.B]

Everyone should thank the US and UK for being the only countries in the world with the balls to deal with this problem.

balls to deal with this problem? they were inferefering in business that disnt concern them. lots of other countries are far worse than a dictator dealing with his people, why attack them? One word: Profit

u people make me sick, i wish now that my grandfather and his generation would have had the same mentality as you and kept there noses out of europes buisness because you all would be speaking Ficken Duetch!!!!!

Well the US was attacked by the Japanese and Germany subsequently declared war on the US.? So it wasn't only Europe's business.

Secondly, people have and always will make money off war.? But it is interesting to note Cheney's connections to Halliburton and their multi-billion government contracts.? Clearly there's no conflict of interest there.

exactly. why do you thinkiberton is making a proft right now? Politions are wasy to corrupt when enough money is placed under thier noses.

[jarmo]

Tube bombs 'almost simultaneous'


The three bombs on London underground trains "exploded almost simultaneously", say police.
At a press conference, Scotland Yard Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick said the attacks took place within 50 seconds of each other.

Technical data from London Underground disproved the earlier wider range of timings between explosions.

The police also warned that the recovery of victims could continue through the night.

There is still no certainty about the number of people whose bodies remain trapped in wrecked train carriages below King's Cross, say the police.

This would be a "slow, methodical, meticulous process" in very difficult circumstances, said Deputy Chief Constable Andy Trotter.

Missing

There have been 49 confirmed fatalities in the bomb attacks on tube trains and a bus - and concerns remain for a further 25 missing people.

The police say that timings show that the explosions took place at 8.50am - and that the synchronisation could suggest that high-explosives used in the attack were triggered using timing devices.

Mr Paddick denied reports that investigators were looking "for any specific individual".

Prime Minister Tony Blair warned that security and surveillance will not be enough to stop such attacks - and that there has to be an ideological struggle in which terrorism is "pulled up by the roots".

Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Mr Blair commended the "inner resilience" of Londoners - as the capital's transport system began to return to a close-to-normal service. There are now services running on sections of all lines on the London Underground.

A book of condolence has been opened - which was signed by Prince William in Auckland, New Zealand.

Terrorism experts have been arriving from Spain to support the inquiry in London, bringing expertise from the investigation into the train bomb attacks on Madrid.

A claim for the attacks has been made in the name of Al-Qaeda - by a group calling itself the Abu Hafs al-Masri brigade.

But the BBC's security correspondent Gordon Corera has urged caution over the credibility of the claim.

CCTV trawl

Forensic teams working in Tube tunnels and at the other scenes of the devastating blasts are taking swabs to try to determine the type of explosives used.

The roof of the number 30 bus, which was ripped off in the blast at Tavistock Square, has been removed from the scene for forensic examination.

Police are also involved in one of the UK's biggest searches of CCTV footage to see if there are any clues as to the identity of the bombers.

BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner said there were a number of key questions which investigators were analysing.

"One of the most important is were the bombers home-grown British terrorists or was this a hit team that came in from abroad," he said.

He said one possibility being investigated was that the bomb maker was an expert who came and instructed the bombers.

Another area was to see if they were "linked directly" to what was left of the core of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan or acting alone.

"The professionalism of it tends to indicate that this was something probably connected to people higher up the chain of command," he said.

Search for missing

Anxious family and friends are continuing their search for loved ones who have not been heard from since the bombings.

The emergency call centre in London has taken more than 100,000 calls from the public.

Relatives and friends have been contacting the hospitals where the many casualties were admitted, as well as taking photos and posters to the four blast sites.

Scotland Yard confirmed seven people died in the Liverpool Street explosion, another seven at Edgware Road, a further 13 in the Tavistock Square bus blast and at least 21 at the King's Cross blast. A 49th person died in hospital later.

Some 700 people were hurt, about 69 are being treated in hospital and 15 remain in a critical condition.

http://news.bbc.co.uk



/jarmo

[D]

It cracks me up so much when people say "We are fighting the war for oil"

Listen, the United States is not the only country who uses oil therefore it would be impossible for the US to attack a country to control its oil.

The UN and every other country would not allow that.

Cheney and Bush are oil men, Bush also owned a major league baseball team, so what?

most politicians are rich in a lot of different ways.

If Bush never gets another paycheck he has money for generations and generations of families.

what still makes me laugh at some of you is the fact the democrats voted to go to war with Iraq as well.

Does that mean they want the oil also?

are there no Democractic oil people?

Please, u can criticize Bush,The US whatever your heart desires but stop it with the idiotic bullshit about fighting to control their oil cause that just isnt possible.

[Prometheus]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/07/09/bomb-birmingham-050709.html



Warning sparks mass evacuation in Birmingham
Last Updated Sat, 09 Jul 2005 18:46:34 EDT
CBC News

British authorities cleared as many as 20,000 people out of downtown Birmingham, after being warned of a possible threat two days after bombs ripped through the heart of London.

    * FROM JULY 9, 2005: London attacks closely co-ordinated: police
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/07/09/london-bombs050709.html


A security alert led police to move people away from this memorial for bombing victims outside Kings Cross Station in London on Saturday. (AP Photo)

The evacuation in England's second-largest city, which lies 175 kilometres northwest of the capital, was by far the largest of a number of security scares on Saturday.

Hundreds of bars and clubs in the city's entertainment district were emptied and police blocked off roads into the city's core.

The police confirmed that they had asked people to leave the downtown and head home after receiving intelligence of a possible attack at about 8:15 p.m. local time.

    * INDEPTH: London bombings

By about 11 p.m. local time, police had yet to give any more details about the nature of the threat.

However, the British Broadcasting Corp. said there were reports that police were conducting controlled explosions in the area.

The network also cited reports that a suspicious package had been found on a bus.

A number of other security scares occurred in the country on Saturday, including several major alerts near the bomb sites in London.

Outside the King's Cross station, people had set flowers against a wall as a makeshift memorial to the more than 20 people who died in a nearby tunnel.

Police moved people back from a makeshift memorial of flowers against a wall after being warned that a suspicious package had been spotted.

In another scare, a train station in Ashford in southern England was shut down temporarily, delaying service between London and Paris.

[jimmythegent]

Some really ugly views expressed in this topic. The suggestion that the answer to terrorism is to kill and eliminate civilians is outlandish, shocking and rather scary. I'm sure there are plenty out there who agree with this brand of Nazism.

The London bombings are a tradgedy, it is time to address the roots of terrorism so we can prevent further innocents being slaughtered.

[Prometheus]

Some really ugly views expressed in this topic. The suggestion that the answer to terrorism is to kill and eliminate civilians is outlandish, shocking and rather scary. I'm sure there are plenty out there who agree with this brand of Nazism.

The London bombings are a tradgedy, it is time to address the roots of terrorism so we can prevent further innocents being slaughtered.

somethign that I have advocated on many occasion.... the only path to victory..... is thourgh taking away the root structure of terroism........ I think you were in the cost sof the Iraq war thread...... would make a biggggggggggggggggggggg mark on global social/political problems.....

[SLCPUNK]

terrible tragedy and my sympathies to those caught up in all this pointless terrorism

its strange that noone saw it coming...yet it was always going to happen, it was just a matter of when...

and its no surprise that its happened when the moronic George Bush is in Britain...

I was waiting for some left-winger to blame George Bush for this.  What a fucking joke.  The Uk does make its own decisions.  Furthermore, they attacked us before we Bush decided to wage the war on terror.  Until people realize that these islamic terrorists want to kill us not for the war on terror, but because we are not muslim, they hate our society, and they have had it our for non-muslims for hundreds of years we are never going to make progress.

Rumsfeld, Bush and Blair  told us that we were in Iraq so that we wouldn't have to fight the terrorists on the streets of London or New York.

 Apparently these guys didn't get the memo.

[SLCPUNK]

It cracks me up so much when people say "We are fighting the war for oil"

Listen, the United States is not the only country who uses oil therefore it would be impossible for the US to attack a country to control its oil.

The UN and every other country would not allow that.

They wouldn't, your right.

That is why we ignored them, and dismiss them today.

[SLCPUNK]

The London bombings are a tradgedy, it is time to address the roots of terrorism so we can prevent further innocents being slaughtered.

Dude, we already won the war, didn't ya know?

[Axls Locomotive]

its funny how the word accomplished is actually over his head 

[Prometheus]

The Middle Erodes
By Ryan Sager     Published      07/11/2005

Last Thursday, the latest wave of terror washed over the Western world. It wasn't the biggest. After New York and Madrid, it was actually the smallest. But the mere thought that 50-plus dead in London was almost a relief -- that it could have been so much worse, that we expected it to be so much worse -- was enough to make the heart sink.

 

There's come to be an awful rhythm to life in the world after September 11, 2001. It's a rhythm of shock, followed by grief, followed by anger, followed by nervousness, followed by recriminations, followed by complacency, followed by alarm at our complacency, followed (of course) by more complacency, followed by -- inevitably -- another shock.

 

And thus it goes. We were at peace -- or so we thought. Then we were at war. And then we felt that we were at peace again, that the threat had receded with time. And then, last Thursday, we awoke to images of our closest allies blackened and bloodied by nameless, faceless, but savage enemies.

 

To stick with the image of waves of terror crashing over the landscape of the Western world, it's clear that these waves will -- and are intended to -- cause a certain amount of erosion. We know that our enemies hope to erode our sense of safety, our sense of well-being and our support for our government.

 

But something else is eroding as well: A middle-ground in the War on Terror.

 

Certainly, there were those -- particularly in Britain -- whose minds seem to shift in counterintuitive directions after the London bombing. In its immediate aftermath, London's Communist mayor, Ken Livingstone (not noted for his support for the War on Terror), made his much remarked statement, aimed at the terrorists, that "whatever you do, how many you kill, you will fail."

 

But far more common was the response on both sides of the ideological divide to man the battle stations, fitting the London bombing into one of two pre-determined narratives.

 

One: These bombings are the West's just-deserts for fighting unjust wars, and they show the need to appease.

 

Two: These bombings show the determination and ruthlessness of the enemy, and thus they show the need to stand strong -- or even the need to attack more aggressively.

 

These two narratives leave precious little room for what Tony Blair, in a different context, might call a Third Way.

 

Either America followed the right course after 9/11, swiftly deposing the Taliban and then setting its sights on the next convenient terror-tied Arab dictatorship. Or, America should have immediately withdrawn its presence from the Middle East entirely.

 

If it becomes clearer every day that there can be virtually no argument that it was prudent to invade Afghanistan, but reckless to invade Iraq, the London bombers have made it clear that their attack was retribution against Britain for its involvement in Iraq *and* Afghanistan.

 

While the merits of each engagement in terms of disrupting the al Qaeda network have to be judged on the specific facts -- Afghanistan seems to have been largely a success, and Iraq may well be if we ever find a way to stem the flow of foreign fighters -- it's clear that abstaining from one, and not the other, wouldn't have bought any mercy from the enemy.

 

And, thus, the two camps, appeasement and attack, drift further and further apart.

 

To attack looks more and more grueling. Will it mean simply redoubling our efforts in Iraq? Or will it mean broadening the war to include Syria or Saudi Arabia, if these countries can't curb the flow of fighters from within their borders?

 

Democracy could spread like a fire in the Middle East, licking at the feet of the corrupt old tyrants, as is the Bush administration's fondest hope. Or that spark could fail to catch.

 

Appeasement, on the other hand, looks more and more bleak. None but the most ardent leftist or Buchananite could truly hope for the United States to retreat wholesale from the Middle East and abandon its longstanding support for Israel -- the only measures that could even begin to sate our enemies' hunger for Western concession and humiliation.

 

So, again, we will spend weeks on end, first nervous, then complacent, then guilty about our complacence, and then ? complacent again.

 

But we will be a little more aware that this is a war, that life will never be the same again and that -- should we not be content to live under this constant threat in perpetuity -- our choices grow ever more stark.

 

Ryan Sager is a member of the editorial board of The New York Post. He also edits the blog Miscellaneous Objections and can be reached at editor@rhsager.com.

[Prometheus]

hmmmm man in mirandings......

A Letter To The British People From A Daughter Of Iraq
Jul 11, 2005
By Iman al-Saadun

I?m sending this letter to the British people and in particular to the residents of London. For a period of hours, you have lived through moments of desperate anxiety and horror. In those hours you lost a member of your family or a friend, and we wish to tell you in total honesty that we too grieve when human lives pass away. I cannot tell you how much we hurt when we see desperation and pain on the face of another person. For we have lived through this situation ? and continue to live through it every day ? since your country and the United States formed an alliance and laid plans to attack Iraq.

The Prime Minister of your country, Tony Blair, said that those who carried out the explosions did so in the name of Islam. The Secretary of State of the United States, Condaleezza Rice, described the bombings as an act of barbarism. The United Nations Security Council met and unanimously condemned the event.

I would like to ask you, the free British people, to allow me to inquire: in whose name was our country blockaded for 12 years? In whose name were our cities bombed using internationally prohibited weapons? In whose name did the British army kill Iraqis and torture them? Was that in your name? Or in the name of religion? Or humanity? Or freedom? Or democracy?

What do you call the killing of more than two million children? What do you call the pollution of the soil and the water with depleted uranium and other lethal substances?

What do you call what happened in the prisons in Iraq ? in Abu Ghraib, Camp Bucca and the many other prison camps? What do you call the torture of men, women, and children? What do you call tying bombs to the bodies of prisoners and blowing them apart? What do you call the refinement of methods of torture for use on Iraqi prisoners ? such as pulling off limbs, gouging out eyes, putting out cigarettes on their skin, and using cigarette lighters to set fire to the hair on their heads? Does the word ?barbaric? adequately describe the behavior of your troops in Iraq?

May we ask why the Security Council did not condemn the massacre in al-Amiriyah and what happened in al-Fallujah, Tal?afar, Sadr City, and an-Najaf? Why does the world watch as our people are killed and tortured and not condemn the crimes being committed against us? Are you human beings and we something less? Do you think that only you can feel pain and we can?t? In fact it is we who are most aware of how intense is the pain of the mother who has lost her child, or the father who has lost his family. We know very well how painful it is to lose those you love.

You don?t know our martyrs, but we know them. You don?t remember them, but we remember them. You don?t cry over them, but we cry over them.

Have you heard the name of the little girl Hannan Salih Matrud? Or of the boy Ahmad Jabir Karim? Or Sa?id Shabram?

Yes, our dead have names too. They have faces and stories and memories. There was a time when they were among us, laughing and playing. They had dreams, just as you have. They had a tomorrow awaiting them. But today they sleep among us with no tomorrow on which to wake.

We don?t hate the British people or the peoples of the world. This war was imposed upon us, but we are now fighting it in defense of our selves. Because we want to live in our homeland ? the free land of Iraq ? and to live as we want to live, not as your government or the American government wish.

Let the families of those killed know that responsibility for the Thursday morning London bombings lies with Tony Blair and his policies. Stop your war against our people! Stop the daily killing that your troops commit! End your occupation of our homeland!

The link can be found in the terriosm thread.
   

[jarmo]

If you want to read about the attack on London, The Guardian has a special section for it at http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/




/jarmo

[Malcolm]

Launch Radio Networks reports: In the wake of the terror bombings in London last week, QUEEN guitarist Brian May says more work should be done to understand why people do this kind of thing. Writing on his official BrianMay.com web site, May says, "I sense there is a mood of quiet resolve among the people I speak to. We are feeling that we must not go any further down the road of escalation...this is old stuff, but I personally feel that in the wake of 9/11 an opportunity was missed...to seek understanding rather than revenge. The Nelson Mandela way. I do not subscribe to this 'War on Terrorism' slogan. I believe we have a need to secure a peaceful world for our children, and that it cannot be done by exerting our muscle internationally. It sure hasn't worked yet, has it?! It must be done by adjusting OUR behavior ? we must stop playing 'Cowboys & Indians' - a self-damning phrase if ever there was one. I no longer believe we are the good guys. We must earn this view of ourselves, and start recognizing that there are other legitimate views of the world than ours."

May added, "So where do we go from here? Search everyone before they go on a bus? On a tube train? Walking down the street? This is the road to insanity...a climate of fear, which, sadly, the U.S.A. is already experiencing. It's time we attacked the cause rather than the symptoms. I want to see our politicians answer the question 'WHY?' WHY do people hate us this much? What can we do to change this? It's no use thinking we are dealing with a small bunch of maniacs, as seems to be the popular view, who need to be 'stamped out.' The reality is we are looking at a large number of entire countries of people to whom the American (and English) flag is a symbol of evil. Of selfishness and bullying imperialist aggression. THIS is what we must address. This is what we owe it to our children to do. In my opinion."

The bombings in London forced QUEEN + PAUL RODGERS to postpone their show in Hyde Park from a week, from this past Friday (July to the coming Friday (July 15).

[GypsySoul]

Sky News is reporting all four bombers died in the London attack.? Also, several raids and arrests have been made in Leeds.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13385127,00.html

ALL FOUR BOMBERS DIED
 
All four suspected bombers died during the London terror attacks, according to police sources.

Sky News crime correspondent Martin Brunt said three bombers died in separate Tube attacks and one was killed in the No 30 bus blast.

Detectives believe all four were British citizens, Brunt said.

It was still not clear if the attackers were all suicide bombers.

This follows witness reports of a man on the bus in an agitated state constantly looking into his bag before the blast in Tavistock Square.

Brunt said police had made a number of arrests in Leeds today in relation to last Thursday's bombings.

They were also poised to make arrests in London, he said.

The news comes as armed police search a house in Leeds after the Army used a controlled explosion to get in.

Hundreds of people had already been evacuated from the area around Hyde Park Road, Burley.

No one was in the house at the time but armed officers had been used as a precaution.

Five other homes in Leeds had earlier been raided by police hunting the terrorists behind last week's attacks.?

Neighbours at one of the addresses said a 22-year-old man who lived there with his family had gone missing.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said the raids were "directly connected" to Thursday's atrocity.

Hours later, police evacuated Luton railway station and car park to recover a vehicle suspected of being linked with the terrorist attacks.
 

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

hmmmm man in mirandings......

A Letter To The British People From A Daughter Of Iraq
Jul 11, 2005
By Iman al-Saadun

I’m sending this letter to the British people and in particular to the residents of London. For a period of hours, you have lived through moments of desperate anxiety and horror. In those hours you lost a member of your family or a friend, and we wish to tell you in total honesty that we too grieve when human lives pass away. I cannot tell you how much we hurt when we see desperation and pain on the face of another person. For we have lived through this situation – and continue to live through it every day – since your country and the United States formed an alliance and laid plans to attack Iraq.

The Prime Minister of your country, Tony Blair, said that those who carried out the explosions did so in the name of Islam. The Secretary of State of the United States, Condaleezza Rice, described the bombings as an act of barbarism. The United Nations Security Council met and unanimously condemned the event.

I would like to ask you, the free British people, to allow me to inquire: in whose name was our country blockaded for 12 years? In whose name were our cities bombed using internationally prohibited weapons? In whose name did the British army kill Iraqis and torture them? Was that in your name? Or in the name of religion? Or humanity? Or freedom? Or democracy?

What do you call the killing of more than two million children? What do you call the pollution of the soil and the water with depleted uranium and other lethal substances?

What do you call what happened in the prisons in Iraq – in Abu Ghraib, Camp Bucca and the many other prison camps? What do you call the torture of men, women, and children? What do you call tying bombs to the bodies of prisoners and blowing them apart? What do you call the refinement of methods of torture for use on Iraqi prisoners – such as pulling off limbs, gouging out eyes, putting out cigarettes on their skin, and using cigarette lighters to set fire to the hair on their heads? Does the word “barbaric” adequately describe the behavior of your troops in Iraq?

May we ask why the Security Council did not condemn the massacre in al-Amiriyah and what happened in al-Fallujah, Tal‘afar, Sadr City, and an-Najaf? Why does the world watch as our people are killed and tortured and not condemn the crimes being committed against us? Are you human beings and we something less? Do you think that only you can feel pain and we can’t? In fact it is we who are most aware of how intense is the pain of the mother who has lost her child, or the father who has lost his family. We know very well how painful it is to lose those you love.

You don’t know our martyrs, but we know them. You don’t remember them, but we remember them. You don’t cry over them, but we cry over them.

Have you heard the name of the little girl Hannan Salih Matrud? Or of the boy Ahmad Jabir Karim? Or Sa‘id Shabram?

Yes, our dead have names too. They have faces and stories and memories. There was a time when they were among us, laughing and playing. They had dreams, just as you have. They had a tomorrow awaiting them. But today they sleep among us with no tomorrow on which to wake.

We don’t hate the British people or the peoples of the world. This war was imposed upon us, but we are now fighting it in defense of our selves. Because we want to live in our homeland – the free land of Iraq – and to live as we want to live, not as your government or the American government wish.

Let the families of those killed know that responsibility for the Thursday morning London bombings lies with Tony Blair and his policies. Stop your war against our people! Stop the daily killing that your troops commit! End your occupation of our homeland!

The link can be found in the terriosm thread.
   

great letter.
we tend to forget that THEY also have reasons.
that they also are fighting us.
we see al-quaida evil.
THEY see our governments as evil.

and yes, WE, rich countries, have killed WAY more civilians in than terrorism will ever kill.
i'm sorry.
we're not the only one suffering.

jameslofton is proof that people are just plain dumb. and that it will never stops.

[SLCPUNK]

Launch Radio Networks reports: In the wake of the terror bombings in London last week, QUEEN guitarist Brian May says more work should be done to understand why people do this kind of thing. Writing on his official BrianMay.com web site, May says, "I sense there is a mood of quiet resolve among the people I speak to. We are feeling that we must not go any further down the road of escalation...this is old stuff, but I personally feel that in the wake of 9/11 an opportunity was missed...to seek understanding rather than revenge.........."

This is what I have been saying since 9-11.

We have to understand WHY this is happening and deal with it that way.

If you continue to say "They hate us for our way of life" and accept no role what led up to their actions, then you are keeping your head in the sand.

Of course this requires tough questions and a government to be accoutable for their actions. The answers are too tough a pill to swallow I'm afraid.

[sandman]

Launch Radio Networks reports: In the wake of the terror bombings in London last week, QUEEN guitarist Brian May says more work should be done to understand why people do this kind of thing. Writing on his official BrianMay.com web site, May says, "I sense there is a mood of quiet resolve among the people I speak to. We are feeling that we must not go any further down the road of escalation...this is old stuff, but I personally feel that in the wake of 9/11 an opportunity was missed...to seek understanding rather than revenge.........."

This is what I have been saying since 9-11.

We have to understand WHY this is happening and deal with it that way.

If you continue to say "They hate us for our way of life" and accept no role what led up to their actions, then you are keeping your head in the sand.

Of course this requires tough questions and a government to be accoutable for their actions. The answers are too tough a pill to swallow I'm afraid.

what IS the reason this is happening?

and if there is a reasonable explanation, why doesn't al qaeda just make it's case? 

and why doesn't bin laden just come out and make his case?

[SLCPUNK]

He has made his case several times.

He wants us to get the hell out of the gulf and stop meddling in muslim affairs.

Stop funding bombs, bullets, and billions of dollars to Israel that kill their Muslim kids. Our support of Israel is the biggie.

It's no secret why they hate us. The Fox news guys (and their ilk) will have you believe otherwise.