Official NHL 2005-2006 Season Thread

[Neemo]

I don't know that I'd call Khabibulin the beat goalie in the East.? You mean to tell me he's better than Brodeur, Theodore, Raycroft, Kolzig, and Luongo?

As for Niedermayer going over to the west, it's a big loss for the Devils, but they still have probably the best defensive corps in the East, if not the entire NHL-- Stevens, Matvichuk, Rafalski, Malakhov, White, Martin, McGillis, and Brown.

And once again, Philly's D is full of big guys with almost no mobility-- not good for what's about to become a high-flying offensive game across the whole league.? Don't go giving yourselves the Eastern Conference crown just yet, Flyers fans.

right now, yes, without a doubt, khabibulin in the best goalie in the league. he did win the cup (while brodeur lost in round 1 - to the flyers).

and you obviously are not familiar with the flyers D. their other 4 defensemen are all mobile "offensive" type defensemen.

So just winning a cup makes you the best goalie in the league?? If you want to go by that reasoning, then Esa Tikkanen and Claude Lemieux are both better players than Mario Lemieux.? I'd love to see you try to defend that one.

As for Khabibulin, in the regular season in 2003-04, he wasn't even top 10 in GAA among goalies appearing in at least 40 games (Roloson, Turco, Brodeur, Esche, Raycroft, Aebischer, Legace, Belfour, Nabokov, and Osgood all had lower GAA).? He wasn't even top 15 out of those with more than 27 games.? Khabibulin was 11th in the NHL in wins.? Missed the top 10 in Save Percentage (behind Roloson, Luongo, Raycroft, Aebischer, Nabokov, Legace, Theodore, Belfour, Denis, and Brodeur among those to play in 40 or more games).? He also had fewer than 5 shutouts, putting him out of the top 15 for the NHL.? Best goalie in the league?? Not even close.

As for the Flyers defensive mobility, Hatcher is getting old and coming off an injury.? Desjardins is also getting up there in age.? Pitkanen is still young, so we'll let him slide.? Rathje stood like a post in the playoffs while Iginla skated all over him.? Therien is no better than Rathje.? Seidenberg is still inexperienced, but has potential.? Johnsson is underrated on the blueline.? But with the two-line pass rule being opened up, they're going to need faster d-men than guys like Hatcher, Desjardins, Rathje, and Therien.? Teams just have to exploit the home run pass to ruin them.

your first comment makes no sense since you're taking what i said about goalies and applying it to forwards. little bit of a different position. and you're also putting way too much into the regular (aka pre-) season.

the fact is khabibulin is one of the best goalies in the league, and he'd probably be listed in the top 3 by every GM in the nhl.

three of the flyers top defensemen (johnsson, pitkanen and seidenberg) can skate with anyone in the leage. all are very fast and mobile. as is desjardins (even in his old age).

the flyers NEEDED some size cause they had little. and although the rules are changing, someone still needs to stop the joe thorton's of the league in front of the net.

The flyer's defense sucks ?

Anyway finally official that gretzky is a coach, that should be intersting to see if he's as good behind the bench as he was on the ice.

And Chris Osgood goes back to the Motor City ? That's pretty exciting I always liked him, I never thought they should've signed Hasek and got rid of him, but whatever, I'm happy he's back, that leaves Cujo for some other team (poor guy should've never left the leafs, Detroit screwed him over from Day one).

Maybe he'll go to Philly, sandman, to be with his old buddy Darian "slow ass" Hatcher. ?

Seriously though. that free's up an excellent goalie for one team. Maybe the Pittsburgh rumors are true.

[Mal Brossard]

Putting too much into the regular season? ?If you don't win in the regular season, you don't get to the playoffs, plain and simple. ?Calling Khabibulin ONE OF the best is different from calling him the best. ?And I still wouldn't say he's top 3. ?Top 10 yes, top 5 maybe.

And just because you won the Cup still doesn't make you the best at your position, even as a goalie. ?If this is true, then I guess Kiprusoff is best in the West. ?Apparently all those Vezinas won by Hasek in Buffalo mean nothing about him being best in the league since he didn't win a Cup until joining Detroit. ?Get real. ?Khabibulin has a Cup and no Vezina, Crozier, or Jennings. ?A TEAM wins a Cup, but the goalie wins these awards-- of which Khabibulin has none. ?Therefore Cups are not the way to measure a single player, no matter what position he plays.

I guarantee that if you switch Khabibulin with Roberto Luongo on Tampa Bay in 03-04, Luongo gets not only a Cup, but also puts up better regular season numbers, and is in the running for the Vezina.

Oh, and you want to talk playoffs? ?Alright, fair enough. ?In save percentage, Khabibulin was behind Joseph, Vokoun, and Nabokov out of all goalies to face at least 150 shots. ?He was third in GAA out of all goalies to play in at least 7 games, once again behind Joseph and Nabokov.

You may say Khabibuin is the best, but the numbers overwhelmingly prove otherwise.

Moving on, Flyers Defense...

My only knock on Johnsson is sometimes he's TOO offensive minded and it could leave his defensive partner open to having to face a lot of odd-man rushes. ?Depending on who that partner is, it could cause problems (especially if it's Hatcher, Therien, or Rathje).

Seidenberg is good all-around, but his lack of size will prove to be problematic. ?In addition, the signing of Therien could cut down on his playing time a bit. ?I'm still iffy on him.

Pitkanen is the best prospect on D, and dare I say the best all-around on the Philly blueline. ?He's the only one I wouldn't worry about at all in any situation.

I still think the opening up of the game for the long passes will prove to be the Flyers' death knell. ?The Joe Thorntons of the league will still get their points, but even more now will go to the speedsters like Sami Kapanen, Martin St. Louis, and Marian Gaborik. ?Look for Wes Walz, of all people, to possibly have a big year. ?

[Mal Brossard]

My apologies for the double post, but it has been announced Todd Bertuzzi has been reinstated by the league.

Absolutely disgusting.

[Neemo]

IMO it was a fluke incident that moore got knocked unconscious, regardless if the canucks would've been able to settle up with him after Moore cheapshotted Naslund in the first place the whole incident would never have happened in the first place. The need to eliminate the instigator rule.  To avoid this type of shit, and others like highsticking.

Anyway don't really want to argue about it, it's never good to have a star player not playing.

Philly just signed Johnsson and Gagne. They are sitting at about $34,000,000 and only have 18 guys on the roster, and no goalies. that only leaves $5mill for 2 goaltenders and 4 skaters, and alot of luck that no one gets hurt.  we'll see how it turns out i guess.

[Mal Brossard]

I wouldn't call the Moore hit on Naslund a cheap shot by any means.  Naslund was leaning in and got caught with his head down, hits like this happen in hockey, just ask Eric Lindros.  Ask Keith Primeau, who got KO'ed by Bob Boughner in the playoffs.

I also don't think it was a fluke Moore was KO'ed or had his neck broken.  There was a month between the hit on Naslund and the near-killing of Moore.  This was a premeditated attack, not something in the heat of the moment.  Heat of the moment would be if Bertuzzi had sone after him in the same game.  Bertuzzi's intent was to hurt Moore, if not kill him.  You don't slam a guy face first into the ice and expect him to jump up and say "Boy howdy, I'll never hit a star player again!"  Star player or not, he needs to serve a real punishment, not just 19 games.

And you're right, the instigator rule has to go.  This would not have happened if they had been able to go after him right then and attack from the front to give him a chance top defend himself rather than waiting to completely blindside him.

Simply put, Bertuzzi should have gone after him from the front.

[Neemo]

I wouldn't call the Moore hit on Naslund a cheap shot by any means.? Naslund was leaning in and got caught with his head down, hits like this happen in hockey, just ask Eric Lindros.? Ask Keith Primeau, who got KO'ed by Bob Boughner in the playoffs.

I also don't think it was a fluke Moore was KO'ed or had his neck broken.? There was a month between the hit on Naslund and the near-killing of Moore.? This was a premeditated attack, not something in the heat of the moment.? Heat of the moment would be if Bertuzzi had sone after him in the same game.? Bertuzzi's intent was to hurt Moore, if not kill him.? You don't slam a guy face first into the ice and expect him to jump up and say "Boy howdy, I'll never hit a star player again!"? Star player or not, he needs to serve a real punishment, not just 19 games.

And you're right, the instigator rule has to go.? This would not have happened if they had been able to go after him right then and attack from the front to give him a chance top defend himself rather than waiting to completely blindside him.

Simply put, Bertuzzi should have gone after him from the front.

to tell you the truth I believ that the broken neck was as a result of the 4-5 guys jumping on bertuzzi after the initial hit. The tv never shows that footage though. The game in question was the next time that Van played Col. it was the first chance at payback. I'm not saying it was a good thing that happened but, revenge is also a part of hockey. He got KO'd because of the shot to the head. and i don't think bertuzzi knew he was unconscious. when fights are started they alway push heads down. it was an    unlucky  unfortuantate hit directly on the temple. Bertuzzi didn't set out to Kill him. give me a break.

hell the shot by Claude Lemieux on Draper in the Det/NJ final was just as bad, or the Hunter cheap shot on Turgeon, or the mcSorely stick incident against Brashear.  And feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Moore do a Knee-Shot on Naslund? That is a potential career threatening hit.

IMO Bertuzzi hit Moore with the intention of starting a fight, not maiming. The rest of the players knew it was coming, that's why there was a huge pile-on afterwards. The col coach put Moore on to distract the Canucks and the canucks, specifically Bertuzzi< took the bait. Unforunately the consequences were disasterous. As for the 19 games, it was more than that, because he wasn't allowed to step on the ice at all for the past year and a half, including the world championships. It's not his fault that there was a strike. He never got strike pay either, (At least I don't believe he did) so in truth he hasn't got paid in over a year, I think that's punishment enough.

At least we agree that if the instigator rule was not in effect, then the whole messy situation could've been avoided.

[Neemo]

anyone gonna get a Hockey video game this year? Which one?

I pre-ordered ESPN NHL 2K6 today

[Mal Brossard]

That kind of neck injury, as well as the concussion and facial lacerations, are caused by the initial blow, not by continued pressure.? Spinal cord injuries are more common with continued pressure, while a fracture is caused more by the initial blow.

The hit on Naslund was him catching Moore's upper arm (closer to the shoulder than the elbow) to his head while leaning to get the puck, not a knee-to-knee.? Had it been knee-to-knee, there would have been a penalty to Moore as well as a suspension.? Naslund even said afterward that it was a clean hit, he just got caught with his head down.

How many fights can you name where a guy pushed the other one's head down?? I can't think of any.? Most are started by a shove or two, perhaps a facewash, then dropping the sticks and gloves.? And while yes, it was the next game the two teams played, that's not my point.? Bertuzzi tried to claim it was done in the heat of the moment-- it would have been a more valid excuse if he had done it in the same game where Moore hit Naslund.

As for the lockout, wow, harsh.? He sat out a whole season that wasn't even played.? I can't even begin to imagine how many tears Bertuzzi shed over that one.? As for not getting lockout pay, for god's sake, the man is a pro athlete.? If he can't live off his millions in the bank, I'll be happy to give up my job at Starbucks to him so he can feed him family.? I'll even donate the change here in my pocket.

As for Lemieux on Draper, that was one that deserved a much longer suspension.? It looked far worse on replays on camera, but in the end, Draper was still able to play again.? Same with Hunter on Turgeon-- Pierre played again.? And McSorley on Brashear (Had Brashear been wearing his helmet properly, he wouldn't have had as bad of an injury).? However, Moore may never play again.? He still has yet to receive medical clearance to get on the ice.? It's terrible how the NHL basically gave a lifetime ban to Marty McSorley for an injury that put Donald Brashear out for a week or two, while giving a whole 19 games to Bertuzzi for a hit that could end Moore's career.

And finally, to the National Hockey League deep thinkers who tried to sneak Todd Bertuzzi's reinstatement through on the same day Wayne Gretzky became a head coach: Go to the box and feel shame. Two minutes for media obstruction, five minutes for issuing a pathetic news release late in the day so no one at the NHL office would have to explain why Bertuzzi's suspension was over, a 10-minute misconduct for blatant stupidity and a game misconduct for leniency.

As for NHL video games, not sure yet.? I have EA's NHL98 through NHL2002, plus 2004, and have found that with the exception of 2004, the game has gotten less and less impressive over the years.? I think I may once again sit this year out, or go over to ESPN.

[Neemo]

I went over to ESPN last year, my buddy had bought it 2 years running prior to that, IMO it's just a better game, more about playing hockey than the gimmics EA always seems to be about. Very realistic in terms of actual player movements, EA does have better face though. if looking at faces on a hockey video game is important to you.?

About the fighting, you always see one guy Turtle, then the other pushes his head down (not slam it down on the ice though just push down, since moore was knocked-out he just fell, couldn't protect himself and when his face hit the ice he suffered lacerations, then every body piled on, that's when i think the fracture occured). About the strike pay, i'm just saying in principle, Not getting paid for a whole year would suck ass, i would go belly-up in no time, I know they have millions but I'm just saying.

Glad to be corrected on the hit moore dished out to Naslund. Anyway, I don't think the damage taht was caused was intentional, I agree it was premeditated however, but to send a message only not to maime.? It was an unlucky turn of events. Honestly how many time do you see someone get knocked out by one punch? The strike was unavoidable, bertuzzi even tried to get cleared last year, the league said no. really i guess it just comes down to a time period rather than games. I dunno, maybe the league thought it unfair to penalize Vancouver with a hefty salary in the new cap, again i dunno.? If you look at the suspension as games only, then yeah it pretty lenient. But whatever.

like i said, I think that it was an accident, and an unfortunate result from a stupid action. You aren't gonna make me see that Bertuazzi meant to cripple this guy and i'm not gonna make you see that it was an accident so lets drop it k?

I guess Pittsburgh just offer Curtis Joseph a contract.

[sandman]

Putting too much into the regular season? ?If you don't win in the regular season, you don't get to the playoffs, plain and simple. ?Calling Khabibulin ONE OF the best is different from calling him the best. ?And I still wouldn't say he's top 3. ?Top 10 yes, top 5 maybe.

And just because you won the Cup still doesn't make you the best at your position, even as a goalie. ?If this is true, then I guess Kiprusoff is best in the West. ?Apparently all those Vezinas won by Hasek in Buffalo mean nothing about him being best in the league since he didn't win a Cup until joining Detroit. ?Get real. ?Khabibulin has a Cup and no Vezina, Crozier, or Jennings. ?A TEAM wins a Cup, but the goalie wins these awards-- of which Khabibulin has none. ?Therefore Cups are not the way to measure a single player, no matter what position he plays.

I guarantee that if you switch Khabibulin with Roberto Luongo on Tampa Bay in 03-04, Luongo gets not only a Cup, but also puts up better regular season numbers, and is in the running for the Vezina.

Oh, and you want to talk playoffs? ?Alright, fair enough. ?In save percentage, Khabibulin was behind Joseph, Vokoun, and Nabokov out of all goalies to face at least 150 shots. ?He was third in GAA out of all goalies to play in at least 7 games, once again behind Joseph and Nabokov.

You may say Khabibuin is the best, but the numbers overwhelmingly prove otherwise.

Moving on, Flyers Defense...

My only knock on Johnsson is sometimes he's TOO offensive minded and it could leave his defensive partner open to having to face a lot of odd-man rushes. ?Depending on who that partner is, it could cause problems (especially if it's Hatcher, Therien, or Rathje).

Seidenberg is good all-around, but his lack of size will prove to be problematic. ?In addition, the signing of Therien could cut down on his playing time a bit. ?I'm still iffy on him.

Pitkanen is the best prospect on D, and dare I say the best all-around on the Philly blueline. ?He's the only one I wouldn't worry about at all in any situation.

I still think the opening up of the game for the long passes will prove to be the Flyers' death knell. ?The Joe Thorntons of the league will still get their points, but even more now will go to the speedsters like Sami Kapanen, Martin St. Louis, and Marian Gaborik. ?Look for Wes Walz, of all people, to possibly have a big year. ?

the regular season is the pre-season. plain and simple. superstars are not made by racking up stats in october and november. they are made by performing at their best in april - june.

so here's something that won't show up on any of your stat sheets.....last may, in game 7 of the conference finals, khabibulin made a ton of huge, pressure saves. and he's getting paid more than $6M a year because of it.

but your a stat guy so we'll agree to disagree.

and trust me, pitkanen is probably 4th or 5th on the flyers depth chart. he plays nervous and chokes in big situations. everyone saw it in the AHL playoffs as well. i wouldn't be surprised if he gets traded during the season, especially if seidenberg can handle being on the second defense pairing. johnsson is the flyers best all around defenseman.

and i also believe the flyers have the best coach in the league which is huge, especially with the rule changes. coaching will be critical this year. 

[Skeba]

I'm very pleased how the trades and lineups have been coming together for Pittsburgh this year..

Crosby, Recchi, Lemieux, Palffy, Gonchar.... If Marc-Andre Fleury, or Jocelyn Thibault has a good season, this could turn out to be one of the biggest turn arounds ever. I mean.. How could it be worse than what we had last season (that they actually played on)...

Go Pens!!! 

[Mal Brossard]

Regarding the Penguins, I'm still very concerned about their defense (even moreso than the Flyers defense).  Gonchar was a forward until he came to the NHL and still is very offensive minded.  Ditto on Tarnstrom.  The Pens will have the league's best power play, but I'm still a bit concerned about their defense.

Crosby-Lemieux-Palffy
Fata-Malkin-Recchi
Pirjeta-Kraft-Malone
Lefebvre-Beech-Roy

Gonchar-Jackman
Tarnstrom-Orpik
Strbak-Melichar

Thibault
Fleury

Goalies worry me a bit here too.  Thibault seems to die out late in the season, but having Fleury there with him, they can give him more rest-- possibly each of them will play 40 games or therebouts.  Caron is also available if needed, as is Chiodo if they really get desperate.  I like how the Pens are shaping up, but the defense and overall inexperience of the team is a concern.


OK, my other team-- Boston.  They got back a lot of previous players and also made osme huge pickups.  They're a team to watch out for in the East, possibly one of the favorites with Philly.  Or maybe I'm just a massive homer.

Samsonov-Thornton-Murray
Isbister-Bergeron-McEachern
Axelsson-Zhamnov-Fitzgerald
Huml-Scatchard-Orr

Boynton-Gill
Leetch-Kutlak
Moran-Girard

Raycroft
Toivonen

Goalie, as always, is a weak spot for the B's.  Raycroft has a full season under his belt, but is still young.  Young goalies have been destroyed by Boston more times than I can count-- Tallas, Carey, etc.  The D is weak with Girard having missed the last season with an injury, Leetch getting old, and Hal Gill being Hal Gill.  I'm hoping for a big fighting year out of the rookie Colton Orr.

[SwedeChildO'Mine]

Well..? this season, the swedish hockey league Elitserien won't be the best hockey league .?

[KeVoRkIaN]

Lol - the Leafs just signed Lindros.....

[Neemo]

Lol - the Leafs just signed Lindros.....

as long as nobody checks him, everything will be fine? . they are gonna have to trade someone soon, they are up to around $36mill with only 18 guys signed

anyone know when preseason starts?

[KeVoRkIaN]

Lol - the Leafs just signed Lindros.....

anyone know when preseason starts?

Friday, September 16, through Sunday, October 2.

[Mal Brossard]

Pens just signed LeClair.? Lineup now looks something like this:

Crosby-Lemieux-Palffy
LeClair-Malkin-Recchi
Fata-Kraft-Malone
Pirjeta-Beech-Roy/Vandenbussche/Bonvie

Gonchar-Jackman
Tarnstrom-Orpik
Strbak-Melichar

Thibault
Fleury

PP1: LeClair-Lemieux-Palffy-Gonchar-Jackman
PP2: Fata-Crosby-Recchi-Tarnstrom-Orpik
PK1: LeClair-Malkin-Strbak-Melichar
PK2: Recchi-Lemieux-Orpik-Jackman
PP3: LeClair-Lemieux-Gonchar-Jackman
PP4: Palffy-Crosby-Tarnstrom-Orpik
PK3: Lemieux-Orpik-Jackman
PK4: Recchi-Strbak-Melichar
SO: Crosby-Lemieux-Palffy-Recchi-LeClair

[sandman]

Pens just signed LeClair.? Lineup now looks something like this:

Crosby-Lemieux-Palffy
LeClair-Malkin-Recchi
Fata-Kraft-Malone
Pirjeta-Beech-Roy/Vandenbussche/Bonvie

Gonchar-Jackman
Tarnstrom-Orpik
Strbak-Melichar

Thibault
Fleury

leclair is a stiff. recchi may have something left, but he'll disappear for 10-15 games at a time. that's a really weak 2nd line.

[Mal Brossard]

leclair is a stiff. recchi may have something left, but he'll disappear for 10-15 games at a time. that's a really weak 2nd line.

And how much do your views on LeClair and Recchi have to do with the fact the Flyers missed out on re-signing them?

Let's see LeClair's stats since getting into the NHL...

Regular Season Playoffs
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
1991-92 Montreal Canadiens NHL 59 8 11 19 14 8 1 1 2 4
1992-93 Montreal Canadiens NHL 72 19 25 44 33 20 4 6 10 14
1993-94 Montreal Canadiens NHL 74 19 24 43 32 7 2 1 3 8
1994-95 Montreal Canadiens NHL 9 1 4 5 10 -- -- -- -- --
1994-95 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 37 25 24 49 20 15 5 7 12 4
1995-96 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 82 51 46 97 64 11 6 5 11 6
1996-97 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 82 50 47 97 58 19 9 12 21 10
1997-98 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 82 51 36 87 32 5 1 1 2 8
1998-99 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 76 43 47 90 30 6 3 0 3 12
1999-00 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 82 40 37 77 36 18 6 7 13 6
2000-01 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 16 7 5 12 0 6 1 2 3 2
2001-02 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 82 25 26 51 30 5 0 0 0 2
2002-03 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 35 18 10 28 16 13 2 3 5 10
2003-04 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 75 23 32 55 51 18 2 2 4 8
 NHL Totals  873 382 379 761 428 154 42 47 89 94

So in the last eight seasons in which he has played 40 or more games, LeClair has had at least 50 points in each of them.  He was over 75 points for five seasons in a row at one point.  I'm not asking for that much, but I bet you'll see him EASILY hit the 50-point mark one more time.

Mark Recchi.  More than 50 points per season every season of his career with the exception of the strike-shortened 1994-95 season. 

Add in Evgeni Malkin, the #2 overall pick in 2004.  You have got to be kidding me if you think this is weak for a second line.  I'd question it a bit as a first line, but I'll take a second line like this any day.  I think you're just crying because your Flyers don't have them anymore.

[Rob]

As a Ranger fan, I must say that is a very good 2nd line for Pittsburgh.  Other than a possible first line of Jagr-Straka-Rucinsky, the Rangers have nothing in the way of forwards.  I'm happy hockey's back, but damn do the Rangers look bad right now.