Would we care as much if this band wasn't called Guns N' Roses?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

vr were never huge when contraband came out. There were so many bigger bands. They were a 2nd tier band not a first. They were on the same level as apc or audioslave type band. If they were so huge they would not have had to play in festivals. They could have go out on their own.

[Falcon]

If they were so huge they would not have had to play in festivals. They could have go out on their own.

This might possibly be the most uniformed statement we've seen from you yet, and that says a helluva lot.

Not even relating to VR, are you telling me bands with "bigger" followings don't play festivals?

That's absolutely insane.

I find the obsession with "bigger" around here absolutely fascinating.? Bigger is hardly ever better or more important than relevent or timely.? "Bigger" is what killed old GNR in the first place, their credibility
diminished with every overblown video and egomaniacal hissy fit.

I'll take relevent over bigger anyday.

I have no interest in how "big" Axl's band can or will get.? I'll be much more happy if they can achieve
a degree of current relevence.

[ppbebe]

Sure VR managed to archive that relevance pretty well. I'm expecting something else from GN'R than the relevancy.
That's no way about the "mine is bigger than yours" matter.

Now, now, shouldn't this hot debate belong in the thread of "VR vs new GN'R" or in the Vr section?
The other thread too seems to be hijacked by certain members tho.

[Falcon]

Now, now, shouldn't this hot debate belong in the thread of "VR vs new GN'R" or in the Vr section?
The other thread too seems to be hijacked by certain members tho.

I was trying to steer it back to GNR as well, notice the "Not even relating to VR" disclaimer in my post....

[dave-gnfnr2k]

If they were so huge they would not have had to play in festivals. They could have go out on their own.

This might possibly be the most uniformed statement we've seen from you yet, and that says a helluva lot.

Not even relating to VR, are you telling me bands with "bigger" followings don't play festivals?

That's absolutely insane.

I find the obsession with "bigger" around here absolutely fascinating.? Bigger is hardly ever better or more important than relevent or timely.? "Bigger" is what killed old GNR in the first place, their credibility
diminished with every overblown video and egomaniacal hissy fit.

I'll take relevent over bigger anyday.

I have no interest in how "big" Axl's band can or will get.? I'll be much more happy if they can achieve
a degree of current relevence.

You are not smart enough to put words in my mouth so don't even try.? VR does not even headline most festivals, what does that tell you? They are not even in the top 20 for biggest bands out there right now. VR are not bigger or better then a lot of bands, and relevant?? Those boy and girl bands are relevant but that doesn?t mean they are any good now does it? The only reason VR are talked about is because they have formemer members of gnr and the lead singer of STP. If contraband was from some unknown band, it would not have sold 2m copies. And that is not even that many albums for a so called huge band.

[ppbebe]

I didn't aim that at you falcon. Or anyone in particular.

  Those boy and girl bands are relevant but that doesn?t mean they are any good now does it?

Some Young  bands like Roosters have sounds a bit similar to veteran VR...

[coldenim]

I'm not saying that we wouldn't like this band if it wasn't, but the name of the band does draw our attention.? It would probably be like "hey, i wonder how Axl's new band is doin on their album."? The frustration and demand for Chinese Democracy, in my opinion, wouldn't be as big of a deal.? Your thoughts?

I think the fact of the matter is, we wouldnt give to flying fucks for a another ass clown keeping the name of the band so he could exploit it for all that it is worth, but we do care because there is an Axl Rose.

[Falcon]

If they were so huge they would not have had to play in festivals. They could have go out on their own.

This might possibly be the most uniformed statement we've seen from you yet, and that says a helluva lot.

Not even relating to VR, are you telling me bands with "bigger" followings don't play festivals?

That's absolutely insane.

I find the obsession with "bigger" around here absolutely fascinating.? Bigger is hardly ever better or more important than relevent or timely.? "Bigger" is what killed old GNR in the first place, their credibility
diminished with every overblown video and egomaniacal hissy fit.

I'll take relevent over bigger anyday.

I have no interest in how "big" Axl's band can or will get.? I'll be much more happy if they can achieve
a degree of current relevence.

You are not smart enough to put words in my mouth so don't even try.? VR does not even headline most festivals, what does that tell you? They are not even in the top 20 for biggest bands out there right now. VR are not bigger or better then a lot of bands, and relevant?? Those boy and girl bands are relevant but that doesn?t mean they are any good now does it? The only reason VR are talked about is because they have formemer members of gnr and the lead singer of STP. If contraband was from some unknown band, it would not have sold 2m copies. And that is not even that many albums for a so called huge band.

Notice I said "Not even relating to VR"...

[Lineker10]

vr were never huge when contraband came out. There were so many bigger bands. They were a 2nd tier band not a first. They were on the same level as apc or audioslave type band. If they were so huge they would not have had to play in festivals. They could have go out on their own.

They headlined 2 tours on their own - the 2nd of which was selling out arenas in the UK - thats as big as it gets in terms of touring. And they were 2nd behind Black Sabbath - theres only a handful of bands if any that can headline above Sabbath.

[DoubleTalkingJive]

It still boggles my mind how people place blame on individual members-the Gnr break up was generic as it comes in rock and roll-musical differences. Period. End of discussion. Nobody's right or wrong. You stop getting along and move on with your life. They ALL say stupid shit-Axl, Slash, Duff, and the two poodles (Adler and Sorum). Izzy is the only one that has shown any maturity by staying the fuck out of it. Booker, as much as you can be a pain in the ass, glad to see you back-this board needs intelligent debaters! (and people with a good memory)

I totally agree here and will always say it was all of them.  To put blame here and there quite honestly just is a waste of time so to speak and I don't mean any disrepect to anyone.   I thought the BTM was totally one sided in the fact it did come across as totally Axl's fault and that also because Axl didn't want to do the show, which I so wish he would have so we could have heard his input and it wouldn't have looked like they were in a sense all ganging up on him.   I have read old interviews so I know what Axl has said in the past to defend himself in the whole situation but the BTM was a big deal to watch and if you didn't read anything prior about what Axl has said about the breakup, it was pretty damning to him.    But it is pretty clear that everybody in the band had some sort of issue with him.

[jameslofton29]

The reason certain people blame Axl more than other members is because Axl's various stories don't add up. Back in 94-95, everyone talked to the media about wanting to do another album, except Axl. Axl's excuse for not doing one was because the band didn't want to evolve. Then he says its because they didn't want to do a GNR style record. He's blamed Izzy in the past. He's also blamed Duff and Slash. When he finally decided he wanted to do an album, he started playing musical chairs with the band. He also gave new meaning to the term 'revolving door'. When he finally got a solid lineup to do a new album, he stil didn't want to do it. Whenever the topics about the breakup or no album in the mid 90's is brought up, the examples just mentioned is why people tend to believe the ex members point of view.

[DoubleTalkingJive]

The only other thing I can say is that as I said in my last post, everybody seemed to have an issue with Axl..that is pretty clear..like I've never heard or read any of the other guys not getting along with each other.  Like Slash having a problem with Duff or vice versa.  Izzy having a problem with Slash or Duff.  Steven had the drug thing so that was a problem in and of itself.   I could be totally wrong and talking out of my ass but, I really don't recall anything like that. 
I still believe that all of them could have talked everything out and got everything out on the table instead of walking away so in that sense I feel they are all to blame..  I think the silence from some of them during that time added to the implosion.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

The reason certain people blame Axl more than other members is because Axl's various stories don't add up. Back in 94-95, everyone talked to the media about wanting to do another album, except Axl. Axl's excuse for not doing one was because the band didn't want to evolve. Then he says its because they didn't want to do a GNR style record. He's blamed Izzy in the past. He's also blamed Duff and Slash. When he finally decided he wanted to do an album, he started playing musical chairs with the band. He also gave new meaning to the term 'revolving door'. When he finally got a solid lineup to do a new album, he stil didn't want to do it. Whenever the topics about the breakup or no album in the mid 90's is brought up, the examples just mentioned is why people tend to believe the ex members point of view.

The ex members like slash and duff stories have changed many times over the past 10 years. Their story changes likemost people change their underwear.

[jameslofton29]

dave, would you give examples of these so called story changes by Slash and Duff? You keep saying that, but never offer anything to back it up.

[marknroses]

Dave, I haven't had the time to respond to your response to my post last week. But I have one question for you about the idea of having a larger band during the UYI tour and where it may have come from...

Who performed on stage with the Rolling Stones in 1989 on their Steel Wheels tour with the big band backing them?
Don;t tell me that it was Izzy's idea (he was on stage performing with another GNR member) because Izzy wasn't even around when the idea of having the big band came out. HINT - it wasn;t Slash's idea either, he would not have the idea of adding horn players, backp Female dancers/singers & an extra keyboard player because he doesn't just think up things like that. He also didn't draw up the contract that put the existence of GNR during the UYI Era in jeopardy if they didn't follow his lead and do everything to his liking. It wasn't Duff's idea because he was too drunk to even think shit up like that. If anything the big band only made him drink more cuz he could hide that on stage.

If you know the answer, then you had no business responding to my comment about Steven (or even Izzy for that matter) getting their nuts fried for objecting to the idea of deviating from the starting 5 GNR Rotation.
If you don't know the answer, then you don't know shit about GNR and don;t have any authority putting down GNR fans for their knowledge of the band that you don;t possess.

BTW - back to the topic.
I thought about it a lot and think that a rock band with average players and Axl Rose around in the late 1980s (under a pop/metal outfit - MTV era) would have attained the same success of a Skid Row, which is only a tiny fraction of what GNR was with the original 5 + Matt Sorum + Dizzy.

 
MNRF

[Miss-Aussie]

it is Axls Solo Project right.... AXL is NOT  Guns N Roses. HE is not the band, TOGETHER they make Guns N Roses. therefore i think that he should not use the GNR name. it's just my opinion, it's the way i see it !!! 

[killingvector]

Dave, I haven't had the time to respond to your response to my post last week. But I have one question for you about the idea of having a larger band during the UYI tour and where it may have come from...

Who performed on stage with the Rolling Stones in 1989 on their Steel Wheels tour with the big band backing them?
Don;t tell me that it was Izzy's idea (he was on stage performing with another GNR member) because Izzy wasn't even around when the idea of having the big band came out. HINT - it wasn;t Slash's idea either, he would not have the idea of adding horn players, backp Female dancers/singers & an extra keyboard player because he doesn't just think up things like that. He also didn't draw up the contract that put the existence of GNR during the UYI Era in jeopardy if they didn't follow his lead and do everything to his liking. It wasn't Duff's idea because he was too drunk to even think shit up like that. If anything the big band only made him drink more cuz he could hide that on stage.

Can we keep the fights in the other threads. This has no place here at all. You had your chance to respond earlier, but for whatever reason, the debate moved on without you. Please don't pollute threads here by being stupid.

As for the name, well, I honestly believe that if Axl didn't get hold of the name and 'purge' the older guys, this band would have produced lackluster albums and embarrased the legacy by action.  I'm at least happy that a bad GnR album does not exist; i'd rather revel in the knowledge that their catalog of music is dense in quality.

It is arguable that Axl has embarrassed himself with his inaction but I can at least say that the GnR product has not suffered the ignomy that bands like Motley Crue, Van Halen, NIN, Pearl Jam and others by the release of inferior product.

[marknroses]

Can we keep the fights in the other threads. This has no place here at all. You had your chance to respond earlier, but for whatever reason, the debate moved on without you. Please don't pollute threads here by being stupid.

As for the name, well, I honestly believe that if Axl didn't get hold of the name and 'purge' the older guys, this band would have produced lackluster albums and embarrased the legacy by action.? I'm at least happy that a bad GnR album does not exist; i'd rather revel in the knowledge that their catalog of music is dense in quality.

It is arguable that Axl has embarrassed himself with his inaction but I can at least say that the GnR product has not suffered the ignomy that bands like Motley Crue, Van Halen, NIN, Pearl Jam and others by the release of inferior product.

Whew!
I thought you were administrator, but I see your just trying  to acting like a punk on the boards.
Considering that I only have 300+ posts and you and others have 1000's of them, I wonder who really is polluting the boards with stupid posts that disparage people for making intelligent comments that you can't comment back on regards to Axl. the scary thing for you fuckers is that Im actually as big an Axl fan as any of you are, but I don;t live in make-believe land and dream up posts on things I think I hear in my head when I hear Axl sans-GNR. I only post when its worthwhile, not when I feel like farting out some thoughts. BTW, I always seem to have a way of killing certain posts. I don't know why but that happened recently with another post.

I'd rather see GNR with albums with a couple of killer songs on a couple more records than see no more GNR, or watch my idol destroy himself in private and rip off all his fans. I am jealous of VH, NIN, MC, and those bands you mentioned. At least they still play music and thats what its about, not a fucking crusade against a million people that put you down in the past that never seems to go public on the Music Store Shelves.

 
MNR