Would we care as much if this band wasn't called Guns N' Roses?

[jameslofton29]

You're making some valid points, but hear me out for a sec. Over the past 10 years, all the ex members stories are basically the same. With Axl, the story changes every so many years. First, Axl said Slash didn't want to 'evolve', and then he says Slash didn't want to do a 'typical'GNR record. Which is it? It cant be both. I would be more likely to believe Axl's version of events if his story didn't change on a consistent basis. The truth is one story, not several.

[DoubleTalkingJive]

I would follow Axl no matter what, GNR name or not. ? The name is coo for him but even if he didn't use it, I think most of us would still be here anticipating what Axl is going to come up with next. ? ? About the GNR breaking up, I never blame just Axl, they imploded on themselves. ? ?They grew up so to speak and everybody wanted to go in different directions or stay right where they were at and they couldn't agree. ? I am not saying that Axl wasn't a brat cause by his own admission he can be one, I do believe that what Slash and Duff and all the rest say but that IMO isn't the sole reason. ?Can't put the blame on one man.

[Falcon]

Yadda, yadda, if, when...

You are obviously looking at things through Rose colored glasses and are void of any objectivity.

Sure. Why have arguments when you can only try to make fun of other people's opinion?

I hardly made fun of your opinion.

In simpler terms, your lack of objectivity deems your view uninteresting and not worthy of "arguments", let alone insightful discussion.

[ppbebe]

Good call gnrfan.

You dont think no one has been placing blame on ex members for Axl's lack of progress? Have you been taking a nap for 10 years?

Think?  You should've put "I think" or "IMO".
Putting in Your 2 cents as the established facts would be misreading and misleading. Or gimme the proof.

Nope. As far as I know younggunner is right.

I've seen nothing of the sort. I'm talking about blaming them for the slow progress of Chinese Democracy itself and not for the lawsuits or anything outside current GN'R.  I guess it's logically impossible. There's none at most in this thread. So it's irrelevant innit?

[Falcon]

Have you been taking a nap for 10 years?

I must be...wheres the hatred toward Slash and company because of whats gone on with the GNR name?

In fact, the old members have cleared themselves from Axl and have the "good guys" image in the public in regards to the whole GNr situation.

The old gnr legacy has not and will not be destroyed because of Axls actions or lack there of. What will be ruine dis Axls image. If he doesnt follow thru with CD or it sux he will suffer not the old members or the old name.

Well said YG.

GNR's legacy will be fine, AFD alone sealed that deal.

Axl's final legacy will be written with CD, good or bad.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

You're making some valid points, but hear me out for a sec. Over the past 10 years, all the ex members stories are basically the same. With Axl, the story changes every so many years. First, Axl said Slash didn't want to 'evolve', and then he says Slash didn't want to do a 'typical'GNR record. Which is it? It cant be both. I would be more likely to believe Axl's version of events if his story didn't change on a consistent basis. The truth is one story, not several.

You have to be kidding me right? You need to stop lying. Slash and Duffs story changes pretty much every interview where Axls story has stayed pretty much the same.

Also you need to actually read ALL of what axl is say and not just what you want. I love people like you claim that axls story changes when in fact its duff and slashs story that is always changing.

Wow. You are the poster of the year for this bullshit you are spewing.

There was a thread on the boards last year about how slash and duff are liars, and had their story keeps changing with every thing they say.  slash and duffs story changes like the wind, its not even funny.

[younggunner]

Over the past 10 years, all the ex members stories are basically the same. With Axl, the story changes every so many years. First, Axl said Slash didn't want to 'evolve', and then he says Slash didn't want to do a 'typical'GNR record. Which is it? It cant be both. I would be more likely to believe Axl's version of events if his story didn't change on a consistent basis. The truth is one story, not several.

You have me scratching my head again....

How has Axls story changed. Have we even fully heard Axl story yet?

When did Axl say he didnt want to evolve and when did he say Slash didnt want to do a typical album?

The tunes and whistels have changed with Duff and Slash not Axl. And im not just saying that. They have said some changing things over the eyars....but tell me what you mean in the above

and of course the old members stories will be the same. Its 2 against 1. SLash and Duff are still together. The fatc that Slash and Duff have been changing their tune over the yrs and Axl says the same stuff when he does talk shows that Slash and Duff arent always telling the truth.

[jimmythegent]

Over the past 10 years, all the ex members stories are basically the same. With Axl, the story changes every so many years. First, Axl said Slash didn't want to 'evolve', and then he says Slash didn't want to do a 'typical'GNR record. Which is it? It cant be both. I would be more likely to believe Axl's version of events if his story didn't change on a consistent basis. The truth is one story, not several.

You have me scratching my head again....

How has Axls story changed. Have we even fully heard Axl story yet?

When did Axl say he didnt want to evolve and when did he say Slash didnt want to do a typical album?

The tunes and whistels have changed with Duff and Slash not Axl. And im not just saying that. They have said some changing things over the eyars....but tell me what you mean in the above

i think he means that at one point Axl accused Slash etc.. of not wanting to evolve and then in a 2002 statement, he alluded to the fact that he wanted to make a more Appetite-style record and Slasg would not allow it

now, these words are probably easily misconstrued and what Axl in fact was refering to was "It's 5 oclock somewhere" as allegedly at the time Axl considered some of this material Guns material. This would explain the "not allowing" comment he made in 2002

[younggunner]

what Axl is saying is that just because he wants to "evolve" or try newer things doesnt mean he doesnt want to do an AFD type record.

And Axl once said in an interview that he Slash solo album would have been a good foundation for a new gnr album. But Slash is too lazy or just had no interest in pushing the envelope in terms of a new guns sound.

Not saying SLash is wrong. Not saying Axl is either. Its clear they both have different musical philosophies and motivations. Hence the break up...

[deliverthecow]

Duff summed up the break up of the band better than anyone as of yet in his song from Beautiful Disease titled 'Who's To Blame'.? Hell we will never know what went down. The odds are not in favor of Axl when you have Duff, Izzy, Gilby, Matt and Steve all more or less stating the samething basically over the last 12 years. That being Axl was a total ass to deal with. We will never know what the hell happened.

[younggunner]

Im sure Axl was an ass to deal with. But so could Slash and Duff. FOrget the other members. It coems down to Axl, Slash and Duff. Ive also heard othe rpeopel say SLash is hard to work with and when soemthing seems cool or good he canns it because its not "cool" in his mind. Sounds similar to Axls claims as well.

Point is they all have their faults and unfortunately they werent able to meet at a common ground. case closed. legacy over. new chapter....

[Voodoochild]

I hardly made fun of your opinion.

Of course you did. In fact, you still do:

In simpler terms, your lack of objectivity deems your view uninteresting and not worthy of "arguments", let alone insightful discussion.

...Or maybe YOU can't see beyond what you want to. In simple terms, your lack of arguments still show how "uninteresting" you're point is.

You obviously don't want to see the other side of the history, the side of Axl - who you and a lot of people here are trying to put all the blame in every single problem in Guns N' Roses history, like Slash and Duff were the good guys, who did NOTHING to breaking up the band. Yeah, right!

[Falcon]

I hardly made fun of your opinion.

Of course you did. In fact, you still do:

Nope, just commented on your lack of objectivity and it diminshing the validity of your point of view.

Nothng more, nothing less.

[Voodoochild]

LOL. So it's lack of objectivity because you say so! Good point here!

[Falcon]

On other hand, once Axl is back, we all know who deserves the spot light.

You're objectivity went south with the above blanket declaration of possible future spot light deservance.

[Voodoochild]

Of course, Falcon. You ignored the arguments and just bitched about "lack of objectivity". But hey, look who said that:

Slash and Duff have moved forward professionally and are virtually never lpublically looked on in a negative light, both have their reputations in tact and have firmly distinguished themselves outside of GNR.  Hell, Slash is revered for cryin' out loud.

On the other hand....

Great objectivity, dude! Slash is never mentioned as "former GNR member" and never talks about GNR in current interviews! People never said VR is "that band with GNR guys"!

But hey, I can't say anything good about Axl. It's lack of objectivity. Damn!

If you don't wanna reply my arguments because you don't want/need/can, that's ok. But don't try to be a smart-ass.

[Falcon]

Of course, Falcon. You ignored the arguments and just bitched about "lack of objectivity". But hey, look who said that:

Slash and Duff have moved forward professionally and are virtually never lpublically looked on in a negative light, both have their reputations in tact and have firmly distinguished themselves outside of GNR.? Hell, Slash is revered for cryin' out loud.

On the other hand....

Great objectivity, dude! Slash is never mentioned as "former GNR member" and never talks about GNR in current interviews! People never said VR is "that band with GNR guys"!

But hey, I can't say anything good about Axl. It's lack of objectivity. Damn!

If you don't wanna reply my arguments because you don't want/need/can, that's ok. But don't try to be a smart-ass.

I never said they weren't referred to as "former GNR members", now did I?? I merely stated they have moved forward and distinguished themselves outside of GNR as viable creative forces.? No matter what you or I think, a number 1 record, multiple hit singles and a Grammy award have entrenched VR as an entity separating the members from their prior bands.  They will always be former members of GNR and STP, but now they have identities outside of their collective pasts as well.

Sure you can say positive things about Axl, no problem with that here. Although basing positive comments and future accolades on something that may or may not ever see the light of day is a bit premature, don't you thinK?

[Booker Floyd]

The tunes and whistels have changed with Duff and Slash not Axl. And im not just saying that. They have said some changing things over the eyars....but tell me what you mean in the above

Can you share some examples of Slash and Duff changing stories over the years?  Ive heard this claim countless times, but cant recall any of the examples to back it up...So feel free to share.

[younggunner]

No matter what you or I think, a number 1 record, multiple hit singles and a Grammy award have entrenched VR as an entity separating the members from their prior bands.

Vr wasnt able to capture the public like many had hoped for. They died down after FTP. They failed in comparison to Audioslave. I remember reading how CB had "Audioslave Legs all Over it". Clearly not the case. They had a nice initial pop. But after that it has died down.

Of course the old members can be looked upon differentlty now. They did somehting Axl has yet to do. Release an album.

Can you share some examples of Slash and Duff changing stories over the years?? Ive heard this claim countless times, but cant recall any of the examples to back it up...So feel free to share.

Not at this moment in time. Dont personally care to go back and look for and get quotes and examples. Too old of a story and pointless. DOnt even care that much anymore as much I used to.

Off the top of? my head was when thte Buckcherry guy said something about Slash wanting to can anything that sounded like it would work. This basically goes along with what Axl said in one of his rare statements.

Theres other things they have said over the yrs but again I dont have the patience nor do I care to go look back on it.

BTW booker I sent you a pm.

[Booker Floyd]

Not at this moment in time. Dont personally care to go back and look for and get quotes and examples. Too old of a story and pointless. DOnt even care that much anymore as much I used to.

Thats the thing...You, Dave, and others have nonchalantly thrown around that claim for years now and it seems that youre not even aware of what youre referring to.  And this isnt about minor details that might require a bit of searching to recall...youre talking about entire stories about the break-up changing.  It seems to me something that major wouldnt be hard to remember, but...

My guess is that those eager to assail the former members credibility have confused Slash and Duffs many reasons for leaving for one changing story, and its been perpetuated for so long that nobody even bothers to think about what theyre actually talking about.

Off the top of? my head was when thte Buckcherry guy said something about Slash wanting to can anything that sounded like it would work. This basically goes along with what Axl said in one of his rare statements.

1. This has nothing to do with Slash and/or Duff changing their story.
2. ?We're still friends. Afterwards, there was this huge buzz going around. It was a time when Keith and I were still writing songs for a third Buckcherry album and Slash and Duff were writing songs, and there was talk like, why not form a band? After Slash sh*t-canned the whole thing did what they were doing became a project later. He just didn't want me as a singer, that's all there is to it. He had decisions that he had to make you know, we all do. It was just a month out of my life.? - Josh Todd

I believe this is the quote youre referring to, and its clear to see that Todd said Slash canned the project because he didnt want him for a singer, not because it "worked" (a claim thats never made any sense to me). 

As a side-note, this quote has been used by Dave to suggest that Josh disliked Slash and found him "bad to work with," which I find amusing considering the first sentence.

Theres other things they have said over the yrs but again I dont have the patience nor do I care to go look back on it.

Id hate for my return to possibly appear acrimonious...but thats a cop-out.

Its good to be back. 

BTW booker I sent you a pm.

Okay, thanks.